Posted on 04/11/2012 3:19:09 PM PDT by pawpawrick
MIAMI (CBSMiami) – George Zimmerman has been charged with second-degree murder for the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, according to the Associated Press.
Additionally, Zimmerman has been taken into custody, but it hasn’t been revealed where he is being held.
CBSMiami has confirmed that State Attorney Angela Corey, who was appointed as a special prosecutor in the case, will hold an announcement about the charges at 6 p.m. in Jacksonville.
That press conference can be viewed LIVE starting at 6 p.m. by clicking here.
” Zimmerman could have shoved Trayvon off of him with his pudgy, meaty arms instead of drawing his gun “
No bias here : )
Find any more communist radio shows to quote ?
LLS
To test your theory, would you be willing to have your nose broken and your head repeatedly banged against the ground by somebody on top of you so you can show us how you could use your “pudgy, meaty arms” to push off of you the person who was potentially giving you brain damage at the time - and get away from the tall, long-armed football-playing Trayvon so that you were out of his reach or speed and could get to safety before he caught up with you again?
I think what I just posted on my blog applies to what you’re claiming here, because it addresses the EVIDENCE:
The claim of self-defense is not just made by Zimmerman so his testimony is not all that has to be accounted for. There are 3 other forms of evidence that are outside Zimmerman’s control which also corroborate his claim of self-defense: the audio recording of the 911 call which has screaming right up to the time of the shot (which supports the story of a fight and not the story of a gun pulled on somebody randomly), the testimony of the person who made the 911 call (whose story has remained consistent throughout, compared with the stories of the witness who first testified that Trayvon was on top and then changed her tune after the race incitements of the media), and the documented injuries of George Zimmerman (which even the media has had to finally admit are shown on the surveillance video at the police station – video which the Martin family’s lawyer claimed was the “smoking gun” proof that Zimmerman lied and the police department fabricated its reports).
We don’t know all the evidence, but it would take a lot of evidence to refute those 3 pieces of evidence that Zimmerman had no control over.
Consider just the screaming on the 911 audio. In a post someone wanted to post here (which I won’t allow because the point being expressed was simply another an ad hominem attack ignoring the evidence I’ve cited in-depth and simply saying that I believe Zimmerman’s story because I’m racist; right now America needs to skip the race-baiting and concentrate on evidence – which you have done in your post so it is welcome here) it was claimed that Trayvon had to be the person who was screaming because the screaming ended when the shot was fired. Let’s just look at that.
If Zimmerman had pulled a gun on Trayvon, why would Trayvon be screaming for an extended period of time? Screaming would only make Zimmerman shoot to shut him up, or else send Zimmerman running away for fear of getting caught. The screaming makes no sense with the claim that Zimmerman pulled a gun on Trayvon out of the blue.
Does it make sense if Zimmerman was getting his head bashed in by Trayvon? Yeah, in that instance you would scream for help. Why would Zimmerman stop screaming when the shot fired? Because the head-banging stopped and there was no need to be afraid or call for help any more.
We could do the same kind of analysis on Zimmerman’s injuries and the funeral director’s statements that Trayvon had no injuries other than the fatal bullet wound.
If Zimmerman was having his head pounded by Trayvon who was on top of him and in control, Zimmerman would have head injuries and Trayvon would have no injuries. That scenario fits the evidence.
If Zimmerman pulled a gun on Trayvon and shot him point-blank neither one would have injuries except the fatal bullet wound to Trayvon. So that scenario doesn’t fit the evidence.
If Zimmerman attacked first and then shot Zimmerman when he was losing the fight, both would have injuries in addition to Trayvon’s fatal bullet wound. That doesn’t fit the evidence.
The two PHYSICAL kinds of evidence (the audio of the screaming and the injuries or lack thereof on each of the parties) just so happen to line up with the claims of the witness who made the 911 call – that Trayvon was on top and Zimmerman was screaming.
None of that relies on anything George Zimmerman claimed. Zimmerman could be totally non-credible and the evidence would still indicate that this was a shooting in self-defense.
The only way it wouldn’t be is if Zimmerman had managed to get away from Trayvon and shot him anyway, but that is highly unlikely because the screams were continuous right up to the time that the shot was fired. It wouldn’t make sense for Zimmerman to keep screaming as he pulled himself up off the ground to get away from Trayvon. Ballistics would tell us more, and the police have had access to the ballistics report and said that the evidence they have is all consistent with Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense.
Aren't juries allowed to downgrade to a lesser offense if the higher charge can't be proved? Don't think it's fair, but it's reality.
Excellent! However; I hope the people of Florida understand that indicting Mr. Zimmerman for second-degree MURDER when he was just defending himself is sending a terrible message to very dangerous people.
I wonder what the British think of this?
Thanks for the primer! California uses malice in the statute, then implies malice when the circumstances show an “abandoned and malignant heart”. Heart.. mind.. to each his own.
The way I had it explained to me once, a private citizen who pursues a fleeing criminal may be doing so at his own peril.
Let's say you catch Joe in the act of burglarizing your home. Joe flees. You pursue with a baseball bat and corner Joe. Joe could shoot you and claim self-defense, saying that he reasonably feared that you would kill him in your enraged state, and me might even get away with it.
OK, I’m thinking this through. Could Zimmerman have pulled a gun on Trayvon out of the blue and Trayvon screamed to try to scare Zimmerman away - but Zimmerman instead shot Trayvon, even though he knew the cops already knew he was at that scene and would be coming shortly?
Not very likely but possible.
However that wouldn’t explain Zimmerman’s injuries. Or why he didn’t even try to run away. Or the statements made by all the witnesses that night.
Interestingly, in the Federal trial, with a mixed jury, half the officers were acquitted, which is an indication that the case wasn't as solid as the media claimed. The other thing that's interesting about the Federal trial is that the jury opined that the section of the video shown repeatedly by the media actually portrayed a permissible use of force. Their conviction was based on the length of the use of force, not on the use of force itself.
The parallel here is the media getting so out of control that the case had to be moved out of town, then whipping up the mob with the help of several local and national race baiters so that “justice” became synonimous with conviction.
Yep. There’s lots of acts in this play, we’ve just gotten to the first intermission.
The OJ trial was in the Central (downtown) Division, moved there from Santa Monica by the D.A.’s office. The race card was on display from the first voir dire on. The D.A. caved to it.
Thanks for the offer. As a start, when anyone calls for a boycott of Florida attractions or products, you can inform them that we are a leader in concealed weapons permits.
"In 1987, Florida passed the nation’s first shall-issue concealed carry weapons law. Nearly one million permits have been issued, nearly double the number in any other state." Adam Putnam, FL Sec of Ag
And I was wrong when I posted earlier in this thread that Florida has a 20 year low in our crime rate, it is a 40 year low. LINKS
If anyone brings up Disney's anti-family, anti-God, anti-gun positions, let them know about Legoland in Winter Haven for the fun and enjoyment of future scientists and engineers. My daughter is a year away from her Chemical Engineering degree at UF. She attended an IB school in Polk County and at her induction ceremony the keynote speaker was the first years valedictorian. Her principal introduced her and stated that the first time he met her, she was playing with Lego building blocks in the 7th grade. He watched her play with those Lego's for 5 more years and she built a robot that could read. She now is in charge of the Apache Long Bow Helicopter long range sighting systems and when you watch America's enemies spattered by 30mm rounds on youtube, thank God for little girls like her playing with Lego's.
ruh roh. George Zimmerman had a my space page and his screen name was a racial slur. If that ends up at trial, hke’s kind of toast as far as not being prejudiced. I can’t post what his my space name was because it is racist.
It’s over and will end up being labelled a hate crime if George Z. had/has a my space page with the N word in his screen name. The DOJ (I hate Eric Holder) can go through Zimmerman’s my space history thanks to homeland security and find out if George does or does not have any prejudices. So, Florida may not convict at some point but DOJ will if it turns out George Z. has racial prejudice in his soul. Time will tell. LIke I said, Eric Holder is a disaster but he’ll indict George Z if there is a my space page with racial slurs on it and in his screen name.
Legoland why on this topic? is for kids of a certain age. Kids over 10 it’s not big enough or exciting enough for them. I know people who aren’t going back cuz it’s boring and small. Their opinion. Are they putting in more rides and stuff? That would help.
She won't have to claim Zimmerman was the 'aggressor' in the classic sense that we'd use that word in a conversation if she's trying to claim enmity toward outsiders and 'punks' who break into houses (not just in his neighborhood) and get away with it.
I hate to answer these questions because people then assume I'm claiming Zimmerman had that enmity. I'm not.
I agree with you that she has a lot that she will have to address. There are parts of the 911 call that she'll use - the fact he said he was following Martin, the fact he'd made so many 911 calls before, the comments about punks (or whatever) always getting away. and 'experts' who'll say it wasn't Zimmerman calling for help. There are also witnesses who claim Zimmerman was on top (including at least one witness who has apparently changed the story since first talking with the police), and that Martin was the one calling for help. I don't know what the medical records from the next day will say about Zimmerman's injuries - remember that the physician probably wasn't specifically asked to observe and take down notes about bruises on Zimmerman's face or body. He was there to stitch up a wound on Zimmerman's head. The medical record may not even mention the broken nose - and Corey will seize on silence in the medical record as evidence the stuff wasn't there (although the physician may testify that he/she wouldn't have written it down - whether he or she can remember or will testify that he/she didn't see it is another matter). the fact he was going to the drugstore armed (as if that's a problem), the fact
” It’s over and will end up being labelled a hate crime if George Z. had/has a my space page with the N word in his screen name. The DOJ (I hate Eric Holder) can go through Zimmerman’s my space history thanks to homeland security and find out if George does or does not have any prejudices. So, Florida may not convict at some point but DOJ will if it turns out George Z. has racial prejudice in his soul. Time will tell. LIke I said, Eric Holder is a disaster but he’ll indict George Z if there is a my space page with racial slurs on it and in his screen name.”
Soooooo....you hate Eric Holder, eh? No evidence of it.
What? No more communist radio shows to quote from ?
So I’m supposed to be stretching my legs now? lol
Why do I feel more like the defensive line on the 1-yard-line that’s been holding the line for the last 50 plays and every time we think we’ve successfully held off the creaming of this country and can take a breather, a ref calls another penalty against us so the ball moves one inch closer and the opponent is given one more down?
It’s been a long hard haul. I do a manual labor job that gives me lots of time to think, which has helped me do a lot of analysis I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to do. But at this point the time for analysis is pretty much past. At this point we just have to “git ‘r done”. When I have to be thinking I look for things to get me away from my own thoughts which just remind me that it’s a waiting game. The videos I’m in the mood for are all dark things like Braveheart, Lord of the Rings, Valkyrie, or (what I watched yesterday) Black Hawk Down.
I’ve got tons of home stuff to do. The fabric for my daughter’s prom dress is sitting there reminding me that’s 2 weeks away and I should get sewing. Know what it feels like? It feels like when my dad had his stroke and we were all in the hospital just waiting to find out if he was going to come out of it OK. There was nothing we could really do and we didn’t really feel like doing anything anyway. Couldn’t concentrate on other things. Just waiting to find out the fate of our loved one.
That’s what this whole presidential term and current campaign season have felt like - like the outcome was in somebody else’s hands and they have been betraying us all along so we just have to wait and wonder whether it’s going to be a slow-motion death by “allies” who betrayed us, or a quick, explosive death by enemies in the current administration. We all WANT to be able to do something but the establishment and administration continuously remind us that resistance is (seemingly) futile.
We’re tired. We need to figure out what we CAN do.
Am I the only one who feels like this?
Thanks, I didn’t believe it based on his known history and his black friends who have come to his defense.
There are some here on FR who have already convicted him and are anxiously awaiting his execution.
Pathetic.
Thank you for keeping that story alive....I do not know the couple - I don’t live in the same state - we need to keep pounding home that sharpton and his ilk are nothing but race baiting whores.
“Eric Holder has made it abundantly clear that he considers himself an advocate for “his people”, not for justice.
Everything he does is a conflict of interest because the oath he took as AG is diametrically opposed to everything he is and has ever done. He is the fox guarding the henhouse”
The exact same thing can be said for the Fraud in Chief
who occupies 1600 PA Ave.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
If mere enmity was a crime, who wouldn’t be in jail?
What criminal action did George Zimmerman make? If he didn’t attack Trayvon then he didn’t commit any crime.
I’m just not following this. We’ve got Fred Phelps throwing verbal slime at the families of fallen soldiers - enmity right in their faces at a time of great emotional turmoil - and yet if somebody at that funeral swung at Fred Phelps it would be he/she who would be the aggressor.
If somebody at a military funeral started a conversation with Fred Phelps and then all of a sudden gave him a broken nose, threw him to the ground, banged his head repeatedly on the sidewalk, and grabbed for Phelps’ gun .... and in that scuffle Phelps fired the gun to stop the attack......
who would be the aggressor? What legal argument would be successful at getting Fred Phelps thrown into jail for 2nd degree murder of that person at the funeral?
>>Like I said; I won’t be visiting ANY state that would indict me for MURDER just because I chose to defend my family from ferals...
Zimmerman wasn’t defending his family from ferals. He got into a latino vs black machismo contest and decided to quit. Not knowing that he was about to bring his fists to a gunfight, martin decided that it wasn’t over until he said it was over. Martin jumped Zimmerman and started beating him and Zimmerman shot him in self-defense.
And that is the version that is kindest to Zimmerman.
Now, I do think it was self-defense, but he wasn’t defending his family from a feral by any means.
>> Don’t get mad at the people ‘dissing’ Florida because your leaders ‘caved’ to pressure. Your leaders are the problem...take your anger out on them. They deserve it.
First, the State’s Attorney is not my “leader”. Second, just because elected officials are weak-kneed punks who cave in to pressure from out-of-state interests, that doesn’t make Floridians bad. Your elected officials are probably just as weak when the poverty pimps show up in force. It just happened to be Florida that caught this sideshow because we have strong stand-your-ground and concealed carry laws, along with plenty of brown and black people.
Finally, emotionally-charged boycotts are for liberals.
Trayvon was loitering in the rain off the sidewalk, near townhomes in a neighborhood that had been burglarized frequently in the recent past. Zimmerman thought he might be high as well.
Zimmerman gave a reasonable response: he called police and tried to keep them abreast of where Trayvon was at.
Trayvon noticed that somebody was watching him. He presumably had no way to know whether it was a “good guy” or a “bad guy”. He hid. A reasonable response.
Zimmerman couldn’t see Trayvon any more. He headed back to his truck. At that point neither Trayvon nor Zimmerman has any reason to pursue things further. The reasonable response would be for both of them to go home, or to make further contact with police regarding what had happened.
Then Trayvon comes around and initiates a conversation with Z by asking why Z is following him - a reasonable action if he wasn’t afraid of Z and wanted to clear up what had just happened. Z responds by asking why Trayvon is in the neighborhood, which is the reason why Z was trying to keep track of him - a reasonable action for somebody who wants to make sure that somebody isn’t “up to no good”.
The problem is that bolded part - from what I've read, we only have Zimmerman's statement as to the accuracy of those events. It is possible that Zimmerman did stop running after Martin when the dispatcher made the suggestion. But there is no independent verification that he returned to his truck, only his statement.
There is also no independent verification that Martin was the one to approach him. The statement by Martin's girlfriend was that Martin SPOKE first. If Martin did duck out of sight and Zimmerman was still walking around trying to catch a glimpse of where he went, it is possible that he rounded a corner and found Martin. In which case it would be very reasonable for Martin to respond with "Why you following me?"
How thing disintegrated into a life and death struggle isn't as open and shut as so many are implying. Based on what I've read of the evidence so far, they don't have anything to verify Zimmerman's version of events but they don't have anything to dispute it either. Unless they've got an ace up their sleeve that hasn't been released to the public yet, this is going to be a very difficult case for them to win.
I didn't say that. I was addressing a hypothetical situation that MIGHT occur if I were to visit Florida. Since I'm not going to do that; the point is moot. Just pointing out why...
You're right...that probably applies to every state in the Union.
So, boycott Florida? The last time that happened was when Terri Schiavo was dehydrated to death. Many never returned to Florida nor their acquaintances but lots of tourist trade is here from the UK and Europe. They’re even buying short sales here and they are trying to turn our complex into Europe. If they don’t like turtles, herons, ducks, birds and stray cats, they moved to the wrong state. I’m not calling for a boycott over this. Courts will decide and that’s that.
After looking at the timeline and map at http://floppingaces.net/2012/04/03/the-martinzimmerman-timeline-reader-post/ , it looks like he didn’t get back to his truck but could have been headed that way.
I need to further digest the timeline, but the girlfriend said the phone went dead at 7:16 - which was about 30 seconds after Zimmerman got off the phone. The cops arrived at 7:17 so there was about one minute for Zimmerman to receive the wounds he received and shoot Zimmerman. 40 seconds of that minute included someone screaming - during which time 911 was called. There’s some wiggle room for rounding on the minutes, but that’s not much time for any kind of chit-chat. If the scream was a desperate scream for help it probably came after the broken nose. So within 20 seconds or so Zimmerman went from answering Trayvon’s question with his own question of “What are you doing in this neighborhood?” to having a broken nose and screaming for his life. Sometime during the 40 seconds of screaming Zimmerman apparently struggled his way off of the sidewalk and onto the grass.
Or if a person doesn’t believe that it was Zimmerman screaming, then within 20 seconds Z attacked Trayvon, Trayvon responded by breaking Z’s nose and putting a gash on the back of his head, and Z gained an advantage that so terrorized Trayvon that he screamed for dear life for 40 seconds before Z finally shot him - all this without Trayvon showing signs of injury.
Does the Martin lawyer even have a hypothetical story? Does he claim there was a fight or wasn’t? If there was, was it before Z pointed a gun at Trayvon or after? How did Z get his injuries? Why didn’t Trayvon get any injuries?
What is clear from the timeline is that Trayvon had 3 minutes between the time Z “lost” him and when the confrontation began, yet the confrontation happened almost as far north as the first sighting of each other had happened, and to get home Trayvon needed to go south.
All to offer and point out that there is so much we have yet to learn.
All to offer and point out that there is so much we have yet to learn.
I don’t believe it was just machismo. From Zimmerman’s call to the police it sounds like Trayvon was casing the place. When Trayvon was staring at him and coming forward Z said he had his hand in his waistband and was coming to “check me out”. Seemed like he was afraid that Trayvon might be coming at him with a gun and with an attitude, saying something like “I don’t know what’s his problem.” He asked how long it would take for the cops to get there and said the punks get away so often. The dispatcher said to let them know if Trayvon did anything else. Then as Z was describing the exact location to the dispatcher, Trayvon started running away - headed toward the other exit to the community, Z said. Z followed for about 28 seconds, stopping after the dispatcher said he didn’t need to do that.
So anyway, he wasn’t defending his family from ferals but he did seem to think that the guy was casing the neighborhood. Knew Trayvon was staring at him and then coming to Z to “check me out”. Knew Trayvon first had his hand in his waistband and then had something in his hand so Z might well have suspected a gun or other weapon. Was concerned about giving out his home address because he didn’t know what Trayvon might do - which suggests he thought that Trayvon might have a gun.
“I won’t set foot in that damn state again...”
In this, I agree with you! We don’t need your kind; Disney World is too crowded already!
JC
I’ll tell you what; rather than calling you names that you deserve, I’ll just illustrate your total ignorance about the British tourist murders:
and:
I’m relieved that you so gratuiously decided to avoid our state. We’re fortunate for that!
JC
“Florida is not a safe State in some areas and “Stand Your Ground” may get you a prison sentence or maybe even death.”
Ever since the law in FL moved from “shall carry” to the “Castle Doctrine” to “Stand your Ground”, the crime rate has steadily declined. (The wolves always like the sheep to be helpless!) EVERY state has ghetto areas that are unsafe to frequent, especially late at night if you are the wrong color or have the wrong accent! I think you are hiding another bias altogether, so feel free to just stay away! Go to NYC or DC or Chicago instead, and take your chances... And good luck!
JC
JC
Scout, I agree. I recall reading somewhere that Martin’s girl friend on the phone waited 23 days to come up with her “recollections” of the “conversations” that they had during this episode... Yeah, RIGHT!!
JC
“Zimmerman could have shoved Trayvon off of him with his pudgy, meaty arms instead of drawing his gun.”
That’s purely speculative horsepucky on your part! Zim had a broken nose and was getting his head slammed down on a concrete sidewalk at the time. Whatsa matter with you???
JC
I admire your logic Butter, but it is wasted on floriduh! Comparing his about page to his comments here suggests some sort of bipolar disorder thingy...
JC
You’re despicable and the truth is not in you:
“Hold Up! Zimmerman’s MySpace Name Was “Datniggytb”? (DETAILS)Posted 14 hours 6 min ago by The Decider for Global Grind Staff
It seems George Zimmerman still used MySpace up until the day of his arrest.
A new picture of Zimmerman has surfaced from his days on the social network site, revealing his name to be “datniggytb,” a nickname given to him by his black friends.
STORY: Wait, What? George Zimmerman Murder Charge Could Get Dismissed?
According to the Daily Caller, a family member whose identity remained anonymous for safety reasons, says:
“That was an old nickname his black friends gave him. He didn’t have an issue with the profile name.”
Asked about the significance of the letters “tb” at the end of the username, the family member insisted that they did not stand for Trayvon Benjamin, his shooting victim’s first and middle names.
“They called him ‘Tugboat’ because he was so big,” he said.”
Read more: http://globalgrind.com/news/george-zimmermans-myspace-name-was-datniggytb-details#ixzz1rtBMiEGk
JC
“Am I the only one who feels like this?”
No Butter, you aren’t, but perseverence will win in the end!
JC
“Am I the only one who feels like this?”
No Butter, you aren’t, but perseverence will win in the end!
JC
Your kind? The kind that doesn't want to wind up behind bars for trying to defend his family?
Wow.
As for Disney? Wouldn't want my children molested by the employees, either...but apparently many parents are cool with that...
No worries... you and your State will never see me again.
LLS
Good luck to you too... unlike your disdain for me... I hold no animosity for you and hope you remain well and safe. I do not hate Florida... I am disappointed that she has the problems that she does and with the northeast corridor invading your State daily... NYC and NJ and their political ideology are moving to Florida in huge numbers.
LLS
They are kicking this into the long grass after the election. Then, too late the truth will come out.
Rioters will be shot in my area, if they have the ability, the opportunity and place a person’s and or another persons life in jeopardy. Deadly Force Will Be Used.
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