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George Zimmerman: Self-defense hearing could dismiss death charge(FL)
orlandosentinel.com ^ | 11 April, 2012 | Henry Pierson Curtis

Posted on 04/13/2012 6:47:55 AM PDT by marktwain

George Zimmerman can ask to have the second-degree-murder charge against him dropped without having to stand trial in the death of Trayvon Martin.

Two years ago, the Florida Supreme Court ruled that anyone claiming "stand your ground" immunity in a death, battery or assault case can request a hearing on the evidence.

The hearing allows the prosecution and defense to argue all the elements of self-defense in the case evidence. To get charges dismissed, the accused must convince the judge that a reasonable person would believe that using deadly force or the threat of deadly force was the only way to protect his or her life, court records show.

The state's "stand your ground" law passed in 2005 says:

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

----------------------cut----------------------

Berman said he thinks Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman's lawyer, will request an evidentiary hearing as part of his defense of Zimmerman's "stand your ground" claim.

(Excerpt) Read more at articles.orlandosentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; fl; martin; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
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Comment #51 Removed by Moderator

To: sheikdetailfeather

I heard that too this AM and it ROYALLY pissed me off.

She is pathetic, honest to God.

I emailed Fox & Friends when she said it and called her the liar she is.


52 posted on 04/13/2012 8:33:46 AM PDT by spacejunkie2001
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To: Above My Pay Grade
Could they really find no expert in voice analysis to testify that the screams were Trayvon’s and not Zimmerman’s?

You won't find an honest one that could claim either way. They need more than a screech heard from a distance through an iffy cell phone microphone to have any level of confidence, plus a number of samples of similar "speech" from both parties.

53 posted on 04/13/2012 8:39:01 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: wtc911

We know he ran off and wasn’t with Zimmerman since the 911 cal didn’t feature Trayvon in the background.

Later Trayvon seemed to teleport himself on top of Zimmerman according to witnesses where he was starting to beat him to death.


54 posted on 04/13/2012 8:39:30 AM PDT by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: no dems
'We saw the Florida Supremes in action in 2000, '

He was referring to the FL Supreme court ability and action during the 2000 Presidential election.

55 posted on 04/13/2012 8:43:14 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Molon Labbie

outstanding~


56 posted on 04/13/2012 9:16:57 AM PDT by itsLUCKY2B (?Borders, Language, and Culture.?)
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To: Alice in Wonderland
Yet, not one word was uttered about Zimmerman's “datniggytb” MySpace account.

Citation, please.

Even if you can come up with a news storythat mentions this account the fact that phony “social” accounts are so easy to manufacture would make it hard to prove that it is really Zimmerman's account.

Of course if you can't come up with a reliable source that may prove that you are a venom spewer too. Or perhaps you just failed to put a necessary /sarc tag on your post. Until you fail to come up with something real to support your post I will assume the latter.

57 posted on 04/13/2012 9:17:51 AM PDT by Cheburashka (It's legal to be out at night in spacesuits, even carrying a rag dolly. Cops hauled us in anyway.)
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To: Sherman Logan

If Zimmerman is telling the truth, he had no chance to retreat—Martin came up and attacked him.


58 posted on 04/13/2012 9:21:11 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: heartwood
Which would of course be a failure on the part of law enforcement.

The police never release all their evidence. You (and I, of course) haven't seen the evidence gathered by the police. So there is no point in assuming that the police have not followed up on his call calls.
59 posted on 04/13/2012 9:21:17 AM PDT by Cheburashka (It's legal to be out at night in spacesuits, even carrying a rag dolly. Cops hauled us in anyway.)
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To: Cheburashka

I have a question about the girlfriend.

Why didn’t she call anyone when the phone went dead?

She’s talking to Trayvon, he says a guy is following him, she hears the beginnings of a confrontation, the phone goes dead, and....well thats it.

Tracy Martin was completely in the dark, the next day, when he discovered Trayvon was missing. So the girlfriend obviously didn’t call him, or the cousin, or Trayvon’s mom...nobody. The phone went dead, and she never heard from him again...and just continued on with her day?

This is why I doubt the veracity of her statements so far. They don’t logically fit with her complete inaction, after the phone call. I’m sure this will all get sorted out in court.


60 posted on 04/13/2012 9:22:21 AM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: lacrew

Bingo. What reasonable person would not call the police after hearing a person they had a relationship with getting assaulted? She supposedly told him to run because she was in fear for his safety and then after the line goes dead, it’s oh well, time for a new boyfriend? Come on, no one is going to believe that truckload of manure.

I think if this girl is called to testify, her testimony may get impeached quick, fast and in a hurry.


61 posted on 04/13/2012 9:29:23 AM PDT by Molon Labbie (A Bounty on Zimmerman, Can Be A Bounty On ANYONE. No NBPP Mob Justice!)
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To: Theoria
I am very well aware that he was referring to the Supremes actions in the 2000 Prez race. But, his very next statement was:

"I think we all know how they will rule,"

That's why I said, the "Stand Your Ground" ruling was already made 2 years ago. The Supreme Court is not involved in making a ruling at this time; unless this case ends up going to the Supreme Court. There is nothing for them to rule on. Why are you guys making me work so hard?
62 posted on 04/13/2012 9:35:26 AM PDT by no dems (TED CRUZ: A PROVEN CONSERVATIVE FOR U.S. SENATE FROM TEXAS.)
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To: marktwain

Unfortunately I think we’re in the Twilight Zone where the usual rules (of Law) don’t apply.


63 posted on 04/13/2012 9:50:41 AM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: lacrew
Why didn’t she call anyone when the phone went dead?

Do you have any information that she was still on the phone with Martin when the incident happened? Perhaps she hung up before then.

This is why I doubt the veracity of her statements so far.


I'm not aware that she's made any public statements up to now. If she hasn't, you have nothing to go on. Which means you've made up your mind about her veracity without any facts.

Hey, I've got an idea. Let's wait until she gives her side of the story before we decide if she's a liar.

64 posted on 04/13/2012 10:08:36 AM PDT by Cheburashka (It's legal to be out at night in spacesuits, even carrying a rag dolly. Cops hauled us in anyway.)
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To: marktwain

Unfortunately, it appears to me that, regardless of what happens, Zimmerman will spend the rest of his life in prison, either:

1) Because he is convicted (which carries a minimum of 25 years and a maximum of life); or,
2) If he is acquitted, or after he gets out of prison following a conviction, he will have to go into permanent hiding (giving up his life, thus a very real form of prison) because of the vigilantes who would want to hunt him down.

Too bad, especially if he is acquitted.


65 posted on 04/13/2012 10:10:36 AM PDT by jda ("Righteousness exalts a nation . . .")
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To: A CA Guy

IOW...you have no proof that what you said is true. thank you for your round-about admission.


66 posted on 04/13/2012 10:15:06 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Sherman Logan

>>>The SYG law quite probably has no application in the Zimmerman case, but this case will be used to demonize the law. Count on it.

Will be?? Too late. Already has...


67 posted on 04/13/2012 10:19:04 AM PDT by Keith in Iowa (Willard Romney, purveyor of the world's finest bullmitt. | FR Class of 1998 |)
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To: Cheburashka
"Um, how about we don't prejudge any part of the case, including the honesty of the girlfriend until she presents her testimony. Lots of time after that to decide if she's lying. That would be the conservative point of view instead of spewing venom on someone you've never met and know nothing about."

I never spewed venom about anyone. Try to follow who posted what - I know it's difficult for you Einstein but try to make the effort.

68 posted on 04/13/2012 10:30:28 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: P-Marlowe

That assumes ZImmerman willingly presented the firearm. Given the incredible amount of restraint the majority of known evidence indicates, I do not believe the gun was intentionally displayed.


69 posted on 04/13/2012 10:38:16 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: Cheburashka

You’re evading the question, why has there been no mention . . . none . . . of Zimmerman’s “datniggytb” account?

Just about everyone gushed over Martin’s maybe or maybe not real twitter account. It proved he was a violent, gangsta-wannabe, gold-toothed, drug-dealing, tattooed thug. It also said he was 5’8” and 19 years old.

If phony “social” accounts are so easy to manufacture, how can you be sure that “@no_limit_nigga” is an actual account belonging to Trayvon Martin? Citation, please . . . a reliable source, not a news story or site that merely mentions the account.


70 posted on 04/13/2012 11:10:32 AM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: Alice in Wonderland
No doubt where your sympathies lie is there? The reason no one says anything about Zimmermans account is because he didn't have a picture of himself at 12 yo splattered all over the MSM, pretending to be something he is not.

The furor over the no limit nigga account was due to the fact the MSM tried to paint TM as a 12 yo school boy just out walking around when he was shot by a no good white hispanic.

Read the facts, not the MSM BS, listen to the 911 calls, read the eyewitness accounts, there is no doubt it was self defense.

You, of course, have made up your mind and decided to get on FR and stir up some sh**. Good luck with that, you'll need it.

71 posted on 04/13/2012 11:17:56 AM PDT by calex59
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To: kevcol

Thank you for shooting down the propaganda postings here.


72 posted on 04/13/2012 11:19:29 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: backwoods-engineer

the fl gov is already setting special hearing to “study” syg and how to change it.

IOW the criminal protection act. his excuse? lower crime.


73 posted on 04/13/2012 11:25:35 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: sheikdetailfeather
Here is an audio analysis of that supposed racial slur.

Analyzing George Zimmerman 911 Audio "Punks" or "Coons"

74 posted on 04/13/2012 12:02:16 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: lacrew
Why didn’t she call anyone when the phone went dead? She’s talking to Trayvon, he says a guy is following him, she hears the beginnings of a confrontation, the phone goes dead, and....well thats it.

That is an excellent question and one I haven't heard anyone pose before. I didn't think of that either. Most of us would call someone, the police, a friend, his parents, someone. Being on the other end of a call like that would scare the crap out of most people.

75 posted on 04/13/2012 12:13:31 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye
You are still going over the audio? That is so yesterday. George ssaid, it was f'n cold.

He also said, They always get away, f'n blank holes and he kept following Trayvon.

76 posted on 04/13/2012 12:22:12 PM PDT by floriduh voter (If you conduct your Crime Watch, don't be a George Z.)
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To: Cheburashka; lacrew
Do you have any information that she was still on the phone with Martin when the incident happened? Perhaps she hung up before then. I'm not aware that she's made any public statements up to now.

Apparently you haven't been following this story very well.

Lawyer: Girl on phone with Trayvon Martin cuts shooter's self-defense claim

A girl who overheard part of an incident involving Florida teenager Trayvon Martin can help prove he was killed "in cold blood" by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, an attorney for Martin's family said Tuesday.

(snip)

The girl -- who he said does not wish to be identified -- "connects the dots" about what happened that day when she lays out what she overheard while on the phone with him, he said.

(snip)

Speaking on the phone shortly before he was shot, Martin told the girl that someone was following him and that he was trying to get away, Crump said.

The girl said that, during the phone call, she heard someone ask Martin what he was doing and heard Martin ask why the person was following him, Crump said. The girl then got the impression that there was an altercation in which the earpiece fell out of Martin's ear and the connection went dead, Crump said.

Hey! I've got an idea. Why don't you read up on this story before shooting from the lip.

77 posted on 04/13/2012 12:26:01 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: floriduh voter
You are still going over the audio? That is so yesterday.

Another poster asked about it and I gave him a link to info on it. Do you have anything useful to add or just that made up nonsense?

78 posted on 04/13/2012 12:28:13 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Alice in Wonderland
It's my favorite troll the one who thinks a dead 17 year old qualifies as a wrongful death and we know who's responsible for that wrongful death.

The PD coverup just didn't work. The Sanford Police Chief should just resign cuz it's going to get worse for him as the evidence and the omissions start to drip out in trial.

Drip, drip, drip. I think there could be a case made that the Sanford Police Chief engaged in OBSTRUCTION as he indicated that the case was all wrapped up; as wrapped up as a young man in a body bag in a morgue with a giant gaping hole in his chest.

Yeah, nothing to see there.

79 posted on 04/13/2012 12:28:48 PM PDT by floriduh voter (If you conduct your Crime Watch, don't be a George Z.)
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To: sheikdetailfeather

Why didn’t Trayvon call 911?


80 posted on 04/13/2012 12:32:54 PM PDT by donna (Mitt? NEVER!)
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To: moehoward
That assumes ZImmerman willingly presented the firearm. Given the incredible amount of restraint the majority of known evidence indicates, I do not believe the gun was intentionally displayed.

I think you can assume that after you are rendered unconscious by your attacker that he will find the gun no matter where you concealed it.

Zimmerman had to assume that the guy who attacked him and was pounding his head into the concrete was not only going to take the gun from him after he was out, but to use it on him to eliminate any potential witness to the attack.

Let me ask you if you had a gun and a guy you didn't know and whom you suspected to be a burglar or other felon had you down on the ground and was bashing your head against the concrete, do you think you would not hesitate to pull out your gun from it's concealed location and use it?

Would you feel OK with the knowledge that if you were knocked out, that the attacker would not find the gun and use it on you because you had not "displayed" it?

81 posted on 04/13/2012 12:32:59 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: Cheburashka

Per wikipedia:

“She said that she heard the sound of pushing and that Martin’s headset suddenly went silent, leading her to believe that he had been pushed. She attempted to call him back immediately, but was unable to reach him”

And her statement is mentioned in the charging affidavit.


82 posted on 04/13/2012 12:37:08 PM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: massgopguy

I am with you 100%, the entire charge against Zimmerman is OUTRAGEOUS


83 posted on 04/13/2012 12:53:17 PM PDT by Friendofgeorge (SARAH PALIN 2012 OR FLIPPIN BUST)
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To: Friendofgeorge

I see dead people.


84 posted on 04/13/2012 12:55:33 PM PDT by floriduh voter (If you conduct your Crime Watch, don't be a George Z.)
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To: no dems

I read the article, makes zero difference what they said then, these folks make up the rules as they go along. Matters not what they said yesterday,if a case is political the law and reasoning go out the window.


85 posted on 04/13/2012 12:56:33 PM PDT by Friendofgeorge (SARAH PALIN 2012 OR FLIPPIN BUST)
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To: Alice in Wonderland
You’re evading the question, why has there been no mention . . . none . . . of Zimmerman’s “datniggytb” account?

I'm evading no question. If you have no citation I assume the account doesn't exist.

If phony “social” accounts are so easy to manufacture, how can you be sure that “@no_limit_nigga” is an actual account belonging to Trayvon Martin?


1) The thought occurred to me at the time that Martin account could have been phonied up as well, and I know of no proof that it was not.

2) I am not citing the Martin account as proof of anything, you are citing some Zimmerman account as proof of something. I have nothing to prove, you do. So prove it. Or don't. Your decision.

86 posted on 04/13/2012 12:56:39 PM PDT by Cheburashka (It's legal to be out at night in spacesuits, even carrying a rag dolly. Cops hauled us in anyway.)
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To: TigersEye

That made up nonsense is from the charging Affidavit by the State Attorney but she’s a troll too?


87 posted on 04/13/2012 1:00:10 PM PDT by floriduh voter (If you conduct your Crime Watch, don't be a George Z.)
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To: floriduh voter
I didn't call you a troll so that comment makes no sense.

George ssaid, it was f'n cold.

That is in the charging affidavit? Link please.

Let's not forget that I was replying to your accusation that I was "still going over the audio." An utterly stupid remark since I was giving info to someone who asked for it.

88 posted on 04/13/2012 1:05:25 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Cheburashka
You could save yourself some argument on that point if you would just read the thread. Or even easier just check the replies to her post. post #37
89 posted on 04/13/2012 1:07:56 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

The DA is unsatisfactory to many posters here. She was called some great names as have I. Do a search for George Zimmerman Charging Affidavit and I think you can find it.


90 posted on 04/13/2012 1:09:11 PM PDT by floriduh voter (If you conduct your Crime Watch, don't be a George Z.)
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To: circlecity
I never spewed venom about anyone. Try to follow who posted what - I know it's difficult for you Einstein but try to make the effort.

I refer you to post #18 above by someone calling himself “circlecity”. I quote:

“Is there *any* doubt that the girlfriend will lie her a$$ off...

Venom? Or a sweet bouquet of flowers and complements to a person you do not know? Perhaps someone else is posting as "circlecity" besides you?

91 posted on 04/13/2012 1:15:58 PM PDT by Cheburashka (It's legal to be out at night in spacesuits, even carrying a rag dolly. Cops hauled us in anyway.)
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To: Alice in Wonderland
If phony “social” accounts are so easy to manufacture, how can you be sure that “@no_limit_nigga” is an actual account belonging to Trayvon Martin? Citation, please . . . a reliable source, not a news story or site that merely mentions the account.

The account was deleted, and the Google cache is now also gone.

However, I found the Google cache before it was gone, and it was for sure Trayvon Martin's account. The cache entry was dated Feb 6, 2012 12:29:45 GMT. It contained a birthday greeting from the lovely and charming EatYhurBrainz, aka Kia (whose ballistic background pic would have pleased Doc Edgerton). Kia turns out to attend the same high school as Martin. And her greeting would have been sent on the evening of 5 February. Martin was born on 5 February 1995.

Martin's Twitter account handle was NO_LIMIT_NIGGA (all caps). He listed his name as SLIMM, his location as YO HOE CRIB, and his favorite website as LIES.COM. Dude liked caps!

Oh, and speaking of background pictures, the one Martin chose to tile beneath his Twitter droppings was this:

That's the mugshot of rapper Corey Miller, aka C-Murder, who is doing life without parole for beating up and shooting to death 16-year-old Steve Thomas in 2002 at a night club in Harvey, Louisiana. Quite the role model for an up and coming wannabe gang banger, don't you think?

BTW, Martin's NO_LIMIT_NIGGA handle would appear to allude to C-Murder's record company, No Limit Records.

92 posted on 04/13/2012 1:19:24 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: donna; sheikdetailfeather

Why didn’t Trayvon call 911? Hands busy bashing a head?

93 posted on 04/13/2012 1:19:39 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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To: floriduh voter
The DA is unsatisfactory to many posters here. She was called some great names as have I.

What does that excuse have to do with anything? If you have called her names why accuse me, as if it were a bad thing, of calling her a troll. Particularly in light of the fact that I didn't. Are you on drugs?

94 posted on 04/13/2012 1:21:01 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: P-Marlowe

Why add an unsubstantiated unconsciousness to the mix?
And once a reasonable certainty of serious bodily harm is established, any supposition of the perpetrators previous legal history is irrelevant.

Point is, Zimmerman’s history of respect for law enforcement (ancient history aside) and the training he received from the sheriffs dept. instilled in him a certain amount of procedural restraint. Otherwise that gun would have come out the second he ran into Martin again. But it didn’t.

My hypothesis is, Zimmerman, expecting a patrol car any second, backpedaled and fended off Martin’s advances as long as he could. Martin gained the upper hand and the gun was exposed as a result of the struggle. Martin went for the weapon, that’s when Zimmerman’s cries for help began. Some 40 seconds later the trigger is pulled.


95 posted on 04/13/2012 1:26:45 PM PDT by moehoward
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To: heartwood
the police did not use Trayvon Martin’s cell phone to identify him early on, and did not check his calling history during the time in question.

Some time ago, ABC published an article about the girlfriend and the phone calls. It had a photo of the T-Mobile bill for Martin's phone:

We see the two calls he received just before the fight. Then there is a gap until March 2, at which time someone used his phone to call 911.

Hmmm. Could that be when the Sanford PD finally got around to investigating the phone? Could the 911 call be the Sanford PD calling themselves in order to find out the phone's number?

It may be that the phone was passworded. Passworded phones can usually be used to call 911 without needing to know the password, I believe. If the phone was passworded, the police would have needed T-Mobile's assistance for any investigation other than discovering the number by calling themselves.

I think I read that Martin was carrying no ID. So, his phone would have been the quickest way to identify him, I would think. Why did it take until March 2?

96 posted on 04/13/2012 1:33:03 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: floriduh voter
The PD coverup just didn't work. The Sanford Police Chief should just resign cuz it's going to get worse for him as the evidence and the omissions start to drip out in trial.

Chief Lee already resigned, weeks ago in fact as soon as the race baiting circus act came into town.

"Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee said that he stands by his department's initial investigation but that he is stepping aside to avoid being a distraction. The case has been drawing widespread national coverage amid claims that Trayvon, who is black, was a victim of racial stereotyping." LINK

I take the Police Chief at his word. You are entitled to believe whatever you want, in this case that LE covered up a racially motivated murder (of which there is absolutely no proof), but in doing so consider who you align yourself with...





97 posted on 04/13/2012 1:35:20 PM PDT by kevcol
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To: P-Marlowe
Zimmerman had to assume that the guy who attacked him and was pounding his head into the concrete was not only going to take the gun from him after he was out, but to use it on him to eliminate any potential witness to the attack.

I heard GZ's brother RZ in an interview yesterday state that GZ told him that Trayvon saw/went for the gun while pounding him and said either: "This will be easy. You gonna die now", or "You got a piece, you gonna die now". So, according to what GZ told his brother - Trayvon saw the gun and then went for it.
98 posted on 04/13/2012 1:37:57 PM PDT by kevcol
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To: circlecity
Good way to get toxicology reports and autopsy results to establish the deceased persons physical state at the time of the attack.
99 posted on 04/13/2012 1:47:07 PM PDT by BOBWADE (RINOs suck)
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To: TigersEye
I'm just amazed that anyone's opinion on FR of all places can be shaped and influenced by the DBM. Especially when that opinion lines up with notorious race-baiting, hate mongering and self-serving propagandists - domestic enemies of the worst kind. Even before all of the fact are in, if you decide to form an opinion - who in their right mind would give the benefit of the doubt to those cretins?
100 posted on 04/13/2012 1:47:25 PM PDT by kevcol
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