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Where’s the ‘Probable Cause’?
national review ^ | 4-13-12 | John Lott

Posted on 04/13/2012 7:05:10 PM PDT by doug from upland

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To: doug from upland
Zimmerman “confronted Martin and a struggle ensued"

Seems like the guy who got fired from NBC wrote this affidavit. "Zimmerman confronted Martin (true) [...edited...] and a struggle ensued (true),”

The missing piece, edited out, is [lost sight of Martin, returned to his car, was then attacked by Martin]

Put this back in and it reads: Zimmerman confronted Martin lost sight of Martin, returned to his car, was then attacked by Martin and a struggle ensued

Quite a different picture!
21 posted on 04/13/2012 7:42:54 PM PDT by zencycler
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To: doug from upland

It’s pretty easy to hang the special prosecutor on this stuff, but what if... Just, what if...
I understand that the defendant may invoke the FL self defense statute as an affirmative defense in these cases. And, he/she can do so at the very start of the trial (maybe earlier?). Further, the judge must rule on that defense motion before anything else can move forward. SO, what if the special prosecutor intentionally overcharged the case, so as to give the trial judge an ‘out’ for the self defense claim?
Obama still gets to tell the faithful that the case was properly brought, and that the real problem is that damn FL self defense statute. The race baiters are never going to be placated, no matter what happens. And, the NBP can continue their tinpot army antics, as they will under any circumstances.
The finer legal minds here on FR can pick this apart much better than I can; but, it seems to me that there may be other ulterior motives in play, not just “hang Zimmerman” BS.


22 posted on 04/13/2012 7:44:03 PM PDT by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Change we can look forward to.)
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To: doug from upland

25 years of Prosecution here. There is NO doubt there is probable cause for Voluntary. I am a little surprised at 2nd degree but just carrying the gun and following when told not to gets you there.

None of this means he is guilty, but the analysis is replete with ppl with agendas and who know nothing about what they speak.

Charging Zimmerman is an EASY call.

The political wags will weigh in ad nauseum. Ppl who actually think they “know the Constitution” will do so too. Fortunately, none of these people are involved in the case. Good attys on both sides. The system is working.


23 posted on 04/13/2012 7:44:33 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: doug from upland
Trayvon Martin’s mother identified the voice crying for help on a 9-1-1 call as her son’s.

That is really weak since they have at least one eye witness who says it was Zimmerman crying for help.

24 posted on 04/13/2012 7:44:46 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: doublecansiter

The 911 operator is not a LEO. He doesn’t have to obey their commands. Ignoring a 911 operator is not a crime.


25 posted on 04/13/2012 7:45:11 PM PDT by VRWC For Truth (Throw the bums out who vote yes on the bailout)
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To: Tau Food
-- I read that transcript you cited and couldn't find where he said that he was in his vehicle or not. --

You're right, that transcript doesn't annotate the sound of him exiting his truck. He gets out of the truck just as/after he says "He's running." He's out of the truck when dispatch asks "Are you following?" The call ends (and presumably the fight starts) AFTER this call is concluded.

26 posted on 04/13/2012 7:48:19 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Tau Food
-- I read that transcript you cited and couldn't find where he said that he was in his vehicle or not. --

You're right, that transcript doesn't annotate the sound of him exiting his truck. He gets out of the truck just as/after he says "He's running." He's out of the truck when dispatch asks "Are you following?" The call ends (and presumably the fight starts) AFTER this call is concluded.

Make that the call ends before he gets back to his truck. Need sleep.

27 posted on 04/13/2012 7:49:07 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Tau Food

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw


28 posted on 04/13/2012 7:50:00 PM PDT by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: jwalsh07

Well, if this case gets decided by a jury of ordinary people, I think that some jurors might look less favorably upon Zimmerman’s actions if he left his truck and approached the kid after the 911 folks suggested he back off. It doesn’t appear that the fight took place inside the truck. I guess Zimmerman could testify that he didn’t believe that 911 folks had the authority to keep him from approaching the kid, but I’m not sure that kind of testimony would endear him to some jurors.

We’ll just have to see what the facts turn out to be. Maybe he was already outside the truck when he got the admonition.


29 posted on 04/13/2012 7:50:06 PM PDT by Tau Food
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To: zencycler
Actually, no, we don't know if it true that Zimmerman "confronted" Martin. Some people have talked as if Zimmerman and Martin exchanged words earlier, but that is unclear. I don't think there is anything in what Zimmerman says in the recorded call to suggest that he and Martin had spoken to each other. The girlfriend's version indicates that Martin had noticed Zimmerman watching him, but it isn't clear how far apart they were or whether Zimmerman knew that Martin had noticed him. It was dark and it was raining.

Tonight Hannity was saying that the prosecutor must have additional testimony that the rest of us don't know about, to have produced this affidavit. Perhaps...or she may just be trying to construct the most damaging interpretation of Zimmerman's actions possible, based mainly on the girlfriend's testimony.

30 posted on 04/13/2012 7:53:46 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Tau Food

He didn’t call 911 he called the police non-emergency number and he was not told not to follow Trayvon. If he had been he still would not be required to obey that order.


31 posted on 04/13/2012 7:55:59 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: doublecansiter

what they said on Fox news was grand jury is only required for 1st deg murder. I think prosecutor can use grand jury in other charges but is not required


32 posted on 04/13/2012 7:56:15 PM PDT by visualops (artlife.us)
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To: Tau Food
-- I think that some jurors might look less favorably upon Zimmerman's actions if he left his truck and approached the kid after the 911 folks suggested he back off. --

There is no evidence that Zimmerman approached Martin. NONE.

The evidence has Martin running and losing Zimmerman. Zimmerman is on his way back to his truck when Martin comes from Zimmerman's left rear - in other words, the reason Zimmerman and Martin are getting closer together is that Martin chose to close distance.

Zimmerman was definitely out of his truck when he was asked "Are you following?" The sound of Zimmerman running was what prompted the dispatcher to ask that. It's very clear on the recording - just doesn't appear on the transcript I linked to.

33 posted on 04/13/2012 7:57:16 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Tau Food
I think there was an interval of several minutes between when the dispatcher tells Zimmerman that he doesn't need to follow Martin and he says "OK," and when the confrontation occurred. Zimmerman was trying to find a street address to help the police and apparently was walking back to his truck when Martin suddenly accosted him.

One of the witnesses in a nearby townhouse heard shouting between them which may have gone on for a while--so even if Trayvon knocked Zimmerman down as Zimmerman says, it may not have been immediately but after some verbal back-and-forth.

34 posted on 04/13/2012 7:58:37 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: doug from upland

The writer must not have gotten the memo.
Zimmerman is going to be found guilty. Somehow someway. This is pure politics.
Even if a jury finds him not guilty here, then the Feds will step in and charge some civil rights violation.


35 posted on 04/13/2012 8:00:39 PM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: doug from upland

The prosecutor revealed herself to be nothing more than a buffoon in front of the cameras the other day. A pure political hack.


36 posted on 04/13/2012 8:02:02 PM PDT by The Duke
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To: VRWC For Truth

That is what I thought. The 911 operators in my county in
Ohio are not LEOs either.

So where is this “the police told him not to follow” stuff
coming from? I suspect that it was made up to paint Zimmerman
as a loose cannon or somebody that was looking for a fight,
and thus negating his claim of self defense. Even if it was.

Mike


37 posted on 04/13/2012 8:05:11 PM PDT by doublecansiter (without cartridge, load in nine times, LOAD!)
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To: doug from upland

“The penalty for laughing in a courtroom is six months in jail; if it were not for this penalty, the jury would never hear the evidence.” ~H. L. Mencken


38 posted on 04/13/2012 8:05:32 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: doug from upland

Zimmermans’ attorney should call Sharpton, Jackson, Maxine Waters and big O to testify on what they know about this case, they should also call NBC, ABC, CBS and CNN to testify about how they manipulated the facts in this case. If nothing else, it would be funny to watch.


39 posted on 04/13/2012 8:05:47 PM PDT by Will we know the moment (e are no longer a republi)
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To: Verginius Rufus

I just listened to the recording of Zimmerman’s call before the shooting. Martin had noticed him and was staring at him. Not only was Martin behaving strangely, his demeanor may have appeared threatening to Zimmerman.


40 posted on 04/13/2012 8:06:14 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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