Skip to comments.Where’s the ‘Probable Cause’?
Posted on 04/13/2012 7:05:10 PM PDT by doug from upland
The charges brought against George Zimmerman sure look like prosecutorial misconduct. The case as put forward by the prosecutor in the affidavit of probable cause is startlingly weak. As a former chief economist at the U.S. Sentencing Commission, I have read a number of such affidavits, and cannot recall one lacking so much relevant information. The prosecutor has most likely deliberately overcharged, hoping to intimidate Zimmerman into agreeing to a plea bargain. If this case goes to trial, Zimmerman will almost definitely be found not guilty on the charge of second-degree murder.
The prosecutor wasnt required to go to the grand jury for the indictment, but the fact that she didnt in such a high-profile case is troubling. Everyone knows how easy it is for a prosecutor to get a grand jury to indict, because only the prosecutor presents evidence. A grand-jury indictment would have provided political cover; that charges were brought without one means that the prosecutor was worried that a grand jury would not give her the indictment.
Advertisement The affidavit consists of six main points:
● Zimmerman was upset about all the break-ins in his neighborhood and expressed anger at how criminals always get away.
● According to a discussion with Trayvon Martins girlfriend, who said that she was talking to Martin before the attack, Zimmerman followed Martin. He did so despite the police operators saying we dont need you to do that.
● Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued, though no evidence is cited on this point.
● Trayvon Martins mother identified the voice crying for help on a 9-1-1 call as her sons.
● Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest, and this is confirmed by both Zimmermans statement and ballistics tests.
● Martin died from the gunshot wound.
Note some of the points that are missing. The prosecution doesnt claim Zimmerman had racial animus against blacks. There was no f***ing coons on the police call. Some extremely relevant information from the police report is completely excluded: There is no mention of the grass and wetness found on the back of Zimmermans shirt, the gashes on the back of his head, the bloody nose, or the other witnesses who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, beating him, before the shot was fired. There is not even an attempt to say that the police report was in error; instead the affidavit just disregards it.
Even if everything in the affidavit is correct, it does not even begin to deal with the most crucial question: Who attacked whom? Even if it is true that Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued, there may have been no wrongdoing on Zimmermans part. Confronted does not mean provoked or assaulted. It could simply mean that Zimmerman followed Martin and asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood. Surely Zimmerman had the right to investigate a strange person in his neighborhood. The police operators advice that we dont need you to do that was merely suggestive, not an order to stop. Indeed, the police had no authority to give Zimmerman such an order.
Now take the charge of second degree murder. There is no way that the affidavit justifies such a charge. In Florida, second-degree murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual. But if Zimmerman was being beaten, there was no depraved mind regardless of human life, and the act imminently dangerous to another would be justified as self-defense.
Angela Corey, the special prosecutor who filed charges, claimed multiple times on Wednesday that the prosecutors are seekers of the truth. In our legal system, grand juries can sometimes provide a check on prosecutors who indict based on political pressure or the desire to seek the limelight. It is no surprise that Corey avoided the grand jury.
John R. Lott Jr. is a FoxNews.com contributor and a co-author of the just-released Debacle: Obamas War on Jobs and Growth and What We Can Do Now to Regain Our Future (John Wiley & Sons, March 2012).
If someone was beating the snot of you and you were armed would you shoot them?..
Romney voters most likely wouldn’t..
Obama voters would be doing the beating..
Newt voters would shoot him right in the eye..
Identifying the voice is crucial. Trayvon’s mother has good reason to identify the voice crying for help as her son’s. It makes him him the victim rather than the perpetrator.
I wonder how many people it took to come up with this piece of crap. I also wonder did Corey get to choose which judge it went before.
There is so much corruption involved in the denial of this man’s rights, it’s sickening. And I still don’t hear one politician standing up for the contitution. Not even a tea party politician. Cowards! All of them!
[[The charges brought against George Zimmerman sure look like prosecutorial misconduct]]
Gee- ya think? But Because obama initiated racial hatred by adopting trayvon and giving his nod to the blasck panther’s racist bounty on zimmerman, NOTHING will ever be doen to prosecute the prosecutor who has conducted this prosecutirial misconduct. She had to INVENT a charge in order to have him arrested for crying out loud Because there was NOTHING to charge him withp- so she just made up a charge that is totally irrelevent ot the case- it would be liek if someoen thought I stole a bottle of milk from someone’s doorstep, but diudn’t have any evidence I had actually done it, but they went ahead and accused me of arson even though no fire evidence is visible-
We are suppsoed to be protected i nthis coutnry agaisnt prosecutorial misconduct, but because obama gave the nod to FALESLY ACCUSE Zimmerman, NOTHING will ever be doen to protect zimmerman from a vindictive racist court
[[ Zimmerman was upset about all the break-ins in his neighborhood and expressed anger at how criminals always get away. ]]
Actually Zimmerman voiced the fact that punks always got away by the back gate- and we don’t kow whether Zimmetrman was upset abotu htis fact or not-
[[According to a discussion with Trayvon Martins girlfriend, who said that she was talking to Martin before the attack, Zimmerman followed Martin.]]
When did it becoem agaisnt the law to follow someone?
[[He did so despite the police operators saying we dont need you to do that. ]]
BZZZZT WRONG! another lie- Zimmermaqn stopped following at that point and agreed to meet with the police out by the mailboxes and infact had turned arounnd and was goign to do just that when he was blindsided by trayvon
[[Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued, though no evidence is cited on this point.]]
Really? What’s the evidence to back htis up=- Because Zimmerman tells a compeltely different account and zimmerman was there- that shoud read (provided someoen is actually interested in presenting FACTS instead of conjecture and inuendo) “Zimmerman then encountered Martin, at which time a fight broke out...”
[[Trayvon Martins mother identified the voice crying for help on a 9-1-1 call as her sons.]]
Trayvon’s Father heard the same voice and told investigators on the scene ‘no that is definately not my son’s voice’
[[Confronted does not mean provoked or assaulted.]]
Bingop- this is what I have been saying for al ong time now it is NOT agaisnt hte law to confront someone- it IS however agaisnt hte law to ASSAULT someone- Had Trayvon simply stood an inch away from george yelling and screaming in zimmerman’s face, and had george then shot him- it would have been first degree murder without a doubt- however, since the fight occured, zimmerman had every right to defend hismelf with force- He could have legally done so after the very first punch, and didn’;t have to wait to have his head bashjed i nte cement i nthe hopoes that his head wouldn’t split wide open and kill him- yet george apparentyl from testimony, never drew hisw gun UNTIL martin spotted the gun and went for it
[[Angela Corey, the special prosecutor who filed charges, claimed multiple times on Wednesday that the prosecutors are seekers of the truth.]]
She’s full of shit- She sold her soul to the Devil of LIES when she trumped up FALSE charges against an innocent man who had already been investigated and found to be innocent by the investigation
[[In our legal system, grand juries can sometimes provide a check on prosecutors who indict based on political pressure or the desire to seek the limelight. It is no surprise that Corey avoided the grand jury. ]]
Don’t bet on that happening becaue our president has given his silent consent of the prosecutorial misconduct by REFUSING to do what any good leader should do- He has refused ot warn everyoen involved that ANY illegal activity regarding hte case will be prosecuted with hte fullest extent of the law- That means the black panthers, AND any law official who conducts prosecutorial misconduct0- BUT as you can see- Our preseident has REFUSED to speak out agianst this travesty of justice because he invested hismelf so heavily when he assininelty suggested that if he had a son he would look like trayvon who it seems was the ONLY one who commited a crime (assault with threats of murder) in this case
I don’t believe he was following the kid in his car....he started returning to his car and Martin jumped him, from what I have read...
on foot- you can hear him running to see which street martin ducked down- zimmerman ran to get a street sign so he could tel lthe dispatcher which street martin had ducked down- you can hear george breathign hard o nthe phone
Before you congratulate him you should check the link in post #55.
RightwardHo flat out claimed that Zimmerman was told not to follow. He’s been asked several times to back up his assertion, but so far he has not. Is he justified in making such a claim, in your opinion?
[[There is NO doubt there is probable cause for Voluntary.]]
It can’t be voluntarty manslaughter because someoine in iminent danger has the right to defend themselves with deadly force- voluntary manslaughter suggests a person actsi n in the heat of passion; and heat of passion was caused by adequate provocation- in order for there to be provocation, they would have to prove he acted afgter ‘losing self control’ ‘in hte heat of the moment’ act on impulse and without reflection. Defending oneself with deadly force it woukld seem is not infact ‘losing self control,’ but raqther a determined and rational act intended to preserve one’s own life’.
Acting WITH Reflection is a deliberate act, whereas acting WITHOUT relfection (which is the requirement for voluntary manslaughter) is acting without thinking-
I’m no lawyer- it just seems to me that htere is aq definate distinction between defending oneself with deadlty force, and voluntary manslauighter- which is an irrational or rather an act without reflection or rather thinking and deciding
It sure is. GZ told the police that he called out for help and at least one witness said that it was him. Under the scrutiny in a court room it is bound to become very clear what the truth is. If Zimmerman was the one crying out for help this whole case will fall apart.
No. In fact, a real neighborhood watch captain spotted a real gangsta thug who tried to kill him, but was in turn killed by the lawful use of second amendment rights by the lawful neighborhood watch captian who was on the phone with the lawful police, following their lawful orders.
Wannabe Freepers, however, don't get that.
The scene of the shooting is described in the police report. It’s not along the street but between two buildings, that is in back of both of them, their fronts facing two different streets. There is a sidewalk there, which is presumably where Zimmerman injured his head. It’s my opinion that Martin went back there with the intention of luring Zimmerman in after him, and then hid and ambushed him. I think this is at least a very plausible scenario.
[[In fact, a real neighborhood watch captain spotted a real gangsta thug who tried to kill him, but was in turn killed by the lawful use of second amendment rights by the lawful neighborhood watch captian who was on the phone with the lawful police, following their lawful orders. ]]
I could not have put it any better- lemme just add that the unlawful left is ignoring hte law and the facts of the case, and hoping for an unlawful conviction of a law abiding citizen
“When the cops told Zimmerman to quit following the other guy”
No cops told him to do so, and I’m not sure cops would have the authority to order him if they had.
“easy call” you are smoking dope. The local DA and police chief have already declined to arrest based on the evidence that they collected. The DA and police chief will be called as witnesses for the defense.
“Something about not being held to answer for a capital or
otherwise infamous crime without”
There’s no capital punishment for 2nd degree murder. The crime may be “infamous,” but not necessarily in the way the Constitution means.
“SO, what if the special prosecutor intentionally overcharged the case, so as to give the trial judge an out for the self defense claim?
Obama still gets to tell the faithful that the case was properly brought, and that the real problem is that damn FL self defense statute”
Huh? You could make that point easier and more forcefully by not charging him at all. More importantly, you wouldn’t have wasted my time.
This is my thoughts.
-A young black male is on the phone with his “shorty”.
-he’s walking slowly and looking around because that’s what people do when they are on cell phones.
-Zim takes this action to be suspicious because of all the break-ins
-the young black male notices someone “following” him, gets scared and runs. Maybe someone was after him???
-Shorty is laughing and calling him a p-—y
-He’s embarrassed because he just ran like a lil b-—h from a short white guy
To save face and show he’s a man(thug, gangsta) he decides to go kick some a—. He gets a 9mm slug instead.
After all he was still on the phone almost up to the time he was shot.
Lets face it when Zim had lost him he had time to get home.
I’m sure if they get the girlfriend on the stand she will break and spill the beans about what she really heard.
“So where is this ‘the police told him not to follow’ stuff
The minds of the confused and the mouths of liars.
what i have not heard yet from anybody....let me get this straight...Zimmerman called the police when he first saw Martin. They claim Zimmerman stalked and murdered him. Ok, explain this...who on Earth calls the police BEFORE they commit cold blooded murder?. Whole case is absurd. He’ll never get convicted.
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