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'Mommy Wars' a Trigger Issue With Women
Townhall.com ^ | April 14, 2012 | Salena Zito

Posted on 04/14/2012 5:42:28 AM PDT by Kaslin

As the White House scrambled Thursday to prevent "mommy wars" damage done by a Democratic advisor, one expert cautioned that politicians need to learn to communicate with women voters, who factor strongly in this presidential election.

"Most of the attention paid to them has been superficial, rather than substantive," Catherine Wilson, a Villanova University professor specializing in how women affect politics, said as Twitter chatter carried on the argument of whether a stay-at-home mother works as hard as a career woman.

Since 1980, more women have voted in presidential elections than men, said Sara Grove, another expert on women voters at Shippensburg University.

Democratic leaders backed away from consultant Hilary Rosen for disparaging Ann Romney, wife of presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney, in a CNN interview as someone who "actually never worked a day in her life." Bowing to pressure midday, Rosen issued a statement of apology acknowledging "poorly chosen" words.

President Obama told an Iowa television station that families are off limits in campaigns.

"I don't have a lot of patience for commentary about the spouses of political candidates," Obama said. "Those of us who are in the public life, we're fair game. Our families are civilians."

Ann Romney in January told the Tribune-Review that raising five boys as a homemaker while her husband pursued his business and political careers was "a tough job."

"It is a tough job. There was nothing easy about it and those boys were always getting into some sort of mischief," she said in the interview with son Tag, daughter-in-law Jennifer, three grandchildren and her husband. "Having said that, I wouldn`t have changed one moment of it. It was remarkable."

The Bureau of Labor Statistics, in its databook Women in the Labor Force, counted 32.6 million women with children under age 18 in March 2010, the latest statistics available. About 71 percent were either employed (65 percent) or actively looking for work (6 percent) and the remaining 29 percent were not in the labor force.

Sean Trende, a political analyst for Real Clear Politics, said Gallup polling finds women care more about health care, gas prices and unemployment than they do about issues such as government policies on birth control. Recent polls show Obama leading Romney among registered women voters, though Obama's job approval rating from women has fallen from 70 percent when he took office to 49 percent, Trende said.

"Politicians don't communicate well with woman voters," said Wilson. "They focus on trigger issues, like birth control or women not being allowed into men-only clubs. We are much more complicated than that. ... They should be talking about the things (women) care about, like getting food on the table, health care and if they have children, keeping them safe."

White House press secretary Jay Carney last week told reporters that Obama believes women should be admitted to the all-male Augusta National Golf Club, site of the Masters tournament.

Pelted yesterday with questions about Rosen, who the Romney campaign said has visited the White House 35 times, Carney said: "I think we can all agree, Democrats and Republicans, that raising children is an extremely difficult job."

Rosen suggested Wednesday night that Ann Romney is no economic expert because she did not have to work to pay bills and should not be her millionaire husband's surrogate on women and the economy. "She's never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of women in this country are facing," Rosen said.

Her comments lit up social media sites and talk shows.

Obama campaign strategist David Axelrod tweeted that her attack was "inappropriate and offensive." First Lady Michelle Obama, a working mother of two, jumped in with this tweet: "Every mother works hard, and every woman deserves to be respected."

The Democratic National Committee's executive director, Patrick Gaspard, told MSNBC that Rosen is not a paid advisor to the DNC or the Obama campaign.

"What she said was absolutely out of bounds. Ann Romney is someone who obviously has worked hard to raise five good boys, and she's made some tough choices in her life, I'm certain," he said.

Rosen prompted Ann Romney to open a Twitter account to counter her, saying she chose to stay home and "believe me it was hard work."

"I am raising children, too," Rosen tweeted. "But most young American women HAVE to BOTH earn a living AND raise children. You know that don't u?"

Choosing to stay home rather than work outside the home while raising children isn't a partisan decision or an economic one, said Wilson. Plenty of mothers with varying incomes decide to stay home, despite potential economic hardship or career setbacks, she said.

Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., told the Trib in a 2010 interview that her job as a stay-at-home mom was the best education she got for her role as then-House speaker.

"Never underestimate what happens in a home," Pelosi said. "All the discipline, diplomacy, sense of organization -- I learned it all there."

Carney asked reporters to "focus on what the issue here is -- when it comes to what this administration has done for women, it begins with the president's signing of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act." The law, the first legislation Obama signed, was designed to make it easier for women to challenge pay inequality.

Yet, recently released financial records show the White House practices unequal pay for its female employees, said Andrew Stiles of the online newspaper Free Beacon.

Stiles cited a 2011 annual report on White House staff showing females earned a median salary of $60,000, about 18 percent less than the $71,000 median for males, though he noted that his calculations for each gender "required some assumptions to be made based on the employee names."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 04/14/2012 5:42:31 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

“though he noted that his calculations for each gender “required some assumptions to be made based on the employee names.””

I bet.


2 posted on 04/14/2012 5:58:30 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Kaslin

Somehow Libtards always overplay their hand...like Rosen did and screw up the liberal meme “war on women “ nonsense

And the GOP manage to fold em before the game is up...


3 posted on 04/14/2012 5:59:16 AM PDT by Popman (America is squandering its wealth on riotous living, war, and welfare.)
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To: Kaslin

> Catherine Wilson, a Villanova University professor
> specializing in how women affect politics

Yes, we can rest assured that such a creature is intimate with the problems of women with real families and real jobs.
/sarc


4 posted on 04/14/2012 6:00:29 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: Kaslin

“Progrssives’” disdain (and therefore the Demorats’ disdain) for stay-at-home mothers is long standing and was only underlined by Rosen’s unpolitic, but sincere, outburst. It can not be explained away and is a boon for the GOP, not just Romney.


5 posted on 04/14/2012 6:00:29 AM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
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To: Kaslin
Since 1980, more women have voted in presidential elections than men

And far too many of the rest were girly men.

6 posted on 04/14/2012 6:03:31 AM PDT by Constitutionalist Conservative (I'm a constitutionalist, not a libertarian. Huge difference.)
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To: Kaslin

One thing has been missed in the Rosen comments. She was actually being consistent by attacking Ann Romney if you remember that the key meme is “The Romenys are rich, and you are not.” This morning I heard Obama say that we should get away from the distraction over Rosen’s unfortunate comments and focus on the real issues—like his Buffet rule.

It’s all about class envy. Hilary Rosen was being consistent and making her comments within that framework, but the smear to Ann, who raised five kids, has MS, and survived cancer wasn’t direct enough, so it caused a furor.


7 posted on 04/14/2012 6:13:33 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Westbrook

I teach at a university in California. The bar for ethnic/gender studies is extremely low and almost nonexistant. Many tend to be lesbians and not the hot kind. They hang together and are brutal to anyone who complains about their low standards.

There are serious femail scholars, but not in these areas of study. Ayers and his wife are examples of these fools.

And they are ALL Marxists.


8 posted on 04/14/2012 6:28:37 AM PDT by whitedog57
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To: Kaslin

President Obama told an Iowa television station that families are off limits in campaigns.

“I don’t have a lot of patience for commentary about the spouses of political candidates,” Obama said. “Those of us who are in the public life, we’re fair game. Our families are civilians.”

Sorry, but spouses make themselves fair game when they campaign for their husbands.


9 posted on 04/14/2012 6:28:50 AM PDT by birdsman (NAAWP)
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To: Kaslin

President Obama told an Iowa television station that families are off limits in campaigns.

“I don’t have a lot of patience for commentary about the spouses of political candidates,” Obama said. “Those of us who are in the public life, we’re fair game. Our families are civilians.”

Sorry, but spouses make themselves fair game when they campaign for their husbands.


10 posted on 04/14/2012 6:29:06 AM PDT by birdsman (NAAWP)
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To: Pearls Before Swine
I disagree with you on that. I think Rush Limbaugh hit the nail on the head yesterday when he suggested that Democrats in national politics have an deep-rooted resentment of people like the Romney's because they come across as a completely normal family. Democrats on the national stage, by and large, are effed-up misfits.

Heck -- just go through Barack Obama's family history to see how far south of "normal" these people are. I still have no idea who all of those characters in his past (mother, father, stepfather, grandparents, Communist babysitters, etc.) are. That guy hasn't even used the same name for his entire life.

11 posted on 04/14/2012 6:31:47 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Kaslin
"I am raising children, too," Rosen tweeted. "But most young American women HAVE to BOTH earn a living AND raise children. You know that don't u?"

No, lady you don't HAVE to do both. You choose to do both. Also, she probably hires a tutor and nanny to watch her kids most of the time. She isn't raising them, her hired servants are.

12 posted on 04/14/2012 6:39:49 AM PDT by calex59
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To: Westbrook
“But most young American women HAVE to BOTH earn a living AND raise children. You know that don't u?” <<<

Yes.....but we also know that Ms. Rosen doesn't represent MOST American women by virtue of having 2 children from a failed “Lesbian marriage”....nor do we know if she's the Bull or the Belle or which one is paying child support.....or have u all moved on and your children now have one big happy family with 4 Mommys?..... Care to enlighten us on that???..TYPICAL young American women have no idea how that works!

13 posted on 04/14/2012 6:50:43 AM PDT by M-cubed
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To: calex59

In addition to all her paid help, working Moms rely on the stay at home Moms for carpools, play dates, school trips , and after school activities working Moms can’t get to.


14 posted on 04/14/2012 6:58:09 AM PDT by tell me
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To: Kaslin

“I don’t have a lot of patience for commentary about the spouses of political candidates,” Obama said.

Especially those that spend tens of millions a year on multiple vactions per month.


15 posted on 04/14/2012 6:58:27 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: Pearls Before Swine
Yes. Obama came out and said (paraphrase) ‘some women don't have the LUXURY to be stay at home moms’. Luxury being the key word in his non-apology apology. It IS only about class warfare. None of the Dems ‘apologies’ rang true. They are angry that the ignorant public didn't get their point. What Obama really meant was ‘the Romneys are rich so you need to hate them and be jealous of them for me to get re-elected’. He doesn't care about anyone but his Marxist comrades and if (hopefully when, not if) the public realizes that, he is done.
16 posted on 04/14/2012 6:58:28 AM PDT by originalbuckeye
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To: Westbrook

Yes, we can rest assured that such a creature is intimate with the problems of women with real families and real jobs.

Of course, the one time she had to go into a WalMart, she actually waited in line with one.


17 posted on 04/14/2012 6:59:56 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: Westbrook

I teach at a university in California. The bar for ethnic/gender studies is extremely low and almost nonexistant. Many tend to be lesbians and not the hot kind. They hang together and are brutal to anyone who complains about their low standards.

There are serious femail scholars, but not in these areas of study. Ayers and his wife are examples of these fools.

And they are ALL Marxists.


18 posted on 04/14/2012 7:03:42 AM PDT by whitedog57
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To: M-cubed

I think you have mistaken me for someone else.
:)

I’m one of the people that believes and promotes that families who have children should make whatever sacrifices are necessary to have Mama stay at home to home school the children and provide the emotional and physical support children need.

Some years ago, my conspiracist Uncle told me, “They’re getting the women for nothing.”

I asked, “How do you figure that?”

He replied, “Around 1953, the average tax burden, municipal, state, and federal, was bout 5%. Today it’s more like 40%. The average woman’s wage is about 40% of a man’s wage. The women are just making enough to pay the taxes.”


19 posted on 04/14/2012 7:07:18 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: Kaslin

The Dems shot themselves in the foot with this one. They effectively handed Romney a huge political gift. But the Dummyrats just can’t help themselves. What Rosen, and by extension all radical feministas, was saying was that if you don’t work outside the home, you’re worthless in their Brave New World. Nice job Dummies.


20 posted on 04/14/2012 7:11:46 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: freedomfiter2

> ‘some women don’t have the LUXURY to be stay at home moms’

Quoth the Rosen hag.

It ain’t luxury, Rosen, it’s SACRIFICE! Something that “endowed” and “affirmative-actioned” Leftists like you know NOTHING about.


21 posted on 04/14/2012 7:13:52 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: Alberta's Child
I disagree with you on that. I think Rush Limbaugh hit the nail on the head yesterday when he suggested that Democrats in national politics have an deep-rooted resentment of people like the Romney's because they come across as a completely normal family.

There's that, too. The Dems are a coalition of the aggrieved and somehow not-normal. We can agree to disagree about what was uppermost in Hilary's mind. I don't think you or Rush are wrong, but I think that the current topic of Dem focus is money envy, and that was what Hilary was angling at when she shot her mouth off and hit some unwanted buttons.

22 posted on 04/14/2012 7:20:27 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: tell me

Yes. Because I stay at home, my working friends often assume that I am free to do many things for their children.

I do not mind helping out in an emergency, or if I am not busy, but I have my own schedule.

One friend assumed I could actually watch her and her work friend’s children for 2 weeks without even asking. Why? B/c I ‘don’t have a job.’

I do feel sorry for kids in daycare 5-7 days a week. On holidays as well! With their mothers permission, I withdrew 2 kids from their daycare on Halloween and took them trick or treating. What an injustice! Stuck in a daycare on Halloween!

If Moms choose to work, or have to work, that’s life. But the disdain shown for Moms who stay home is unreal. We have one paycheck so I can stay home. We would like more money, but our kids are our kids. We had them to love them and raise them.


23 posted on 04/14/2012 7:23:01 AM PDT by baileybat
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative

<< Since 1980, more women have voted in presidential elections than men >>>>>>>

No wonder so many terrible liberals get elected. Where are our men voters? What is wrong with them? Our drunken slacker adolescent men!


24 posted on 04/14/2012 7:41:53 AM PDT by heye2monn
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To: Kaslin

Yeah, university women professors really know how to communicate with “average” women

not.

I know, I work with layer upon layer of feminist university professors. Some of whom are, supposedly,men (but call themselves feminists). They are all out of touch with reality.

Feminism lives in fantasy.


25 posted on 04/14/2012 7:44:10 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: baileybat

“... my working friends often assume that I am free to do many things for their children”.

As a stay at home Mom for 16 years, I have encountered the same issue. My best and honest advice is this: be very careful about free babysitting etc... If it suits your time/schedule and your liking then fine. However, I have dealt with some neighbors who just “assume” that I would like nothing better to do than to watch their sick child so they don’t have to take a sick day from work. One single Mother literally showed up at my door with her daughter and a suitcase. She had a business trip and just assumed that I would adore taking care of another child for four days. My Grandmother had a saying... “Don’t start something you can’t stop”. I apply that saying very, very often.


26 posted on 04/14/2012 7:55:09 AM PDT by momtothree
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To: Pearls Before Swine
I agree, I also believe that the idea was to try to link class envy with the so called “war on women” so that they can continue along two lines of attack.

If the democrat machine can get people to believe that the choice to stay home to raise your children is only based on money, the divide gets larger.

The mistake they are making is that the woman (I use the term loosely) that was chosen to present the narrative and test the waters is living in the bubble of liberal elitist's. They just don't understand that they are the ones who are out of touch with the average American.

I am a working mother, this has been both by necessity and choice during different periods of my life.

27 posted on 04/14/2012 8:03:23 AM PDT by mrsloungitude ( USMC Mom)
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To: birdsman
spouses make themselves fair game when they campaign for their husbands.

Agreed....

When Anne said she didn't see herself as wealthy AFTER Romney's 'wealth' was finally revealed..she went on and on about the other facets of life she sees as wealth...it was apparent the woman has some issues about reality.

' She should have been 'truthful that yes they are and then perhaps shared what she's been able to do for those without because of that position. Though I understand about 70% of their charitable giving goes back to LDS..which then invests a great deal of the money in various business ventures such as real-estate, companies and other large operations worldwide.

Makes ya wonder how much more wealth Anne needs before she does feel wealthy!

28 posted on 04/14/2012 8:05:57 AM PDT by caww
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To: tell me
working Moms rely on the stay at home Moms for carpools, play dates, school trips , and after school activities working Moms can’t get to.

I doubt very much that working moms 'depended' on Anne Romney to shuttle their kids anywhere. Your speaking about the average moms....Anne lives her life in a different arena.

29 posted on 04/14/2012 8:11:58 AM PDT by caww
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To: Houghton M.

Today’s Feminism was founded by a Communist-—Betty Friedan. It is all to destroy the Natural Family—aka Karl Marx. The Family and Christianity is the opium of the masses because it is where individuality and independence from government occurs.

Ideas and Reality are inculcated naturally by a loving mother and father—necessary for modeling Virtue and learning responsibility. Without the examples of the Christian family structure, children will not grow up to be Virtuous and will have a warped view of man and woman—like Ancient Greece and Samurai or Aztecs. Without Judeo/Christian Values, there are no Absolute Rules-—all are arbitrary and can be man-made like by a Stalin or Hitler—and they will be “Good”.

A redefinition of Right and Wrong is what the Marxists are doing in our culture right now—to destroy the Christian Virtues-—the most perfect ideology on earth in the history of man—for both women and man—for individuality and freedom.

All ideology states that when there is no Virtue, there can be no Freedom-—Marxists know that-—the Cultural Marxists since Kinsey and Hefner and Freud (atheists) have been tearing down all morality in society—to destroy Christian virtue so they can replace it with Marxist ideology.

Without the Natural Family—Reality and Worldview can be shaped by the State and Evil can be normalized—anything can be when young children are exposed to homosexuality as “normal”. Then the government can make anything Good—when sodomy is “good”.

It totally transforms a generation from the Christian paradigm into a pagan/atheist/muslim one where it is good to kill others or euthanize them, etc. No longer Christian Virtue-—that which formed the Worldview of the USA will not be allowed.

The BF Skinner Conditioning in the Public Schools is making children not understand Good and Evil-—so that the Marxist Ideology becomes the Norm-—where man is god and declares Good and Evil.


30 posted on 04/14/2012 8:20:27 AM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: caww

When Anne said she didn’t see herself as wealthy AFTER Romney’s ‘wealth’ was finally revealed..she went on and on about the other facets of life she sees as wealth...it was apparent the woman has some issues about reality.

________________________________________________________

I am not sure what statements Anne made that you are referring to, but your summary is contradictory. Either she was emphasizing that she doesn’t see wealth in terms of money or she said that they weren’t wealthy, which is it?


31 posted on 04/14/2012 8:20:59 AM PDT by mrsloungitude ( USMC Mom)
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To: caww

I doubt very much that working moms ‘depended’ on Anne Romney to shuttle their kids anywhere. Your speaking about the average moms....Anne lives her life in a different arena.


You seem to be buying into the class envy narrative that the democrat party is shilling. If I am wrong, please clarify your statements.


32 posted on 04/14/2012 8:25:12 AM PDT by mrsloungitude ( USMC Mom)
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To: birdsman

I was going to say, if they are not fair game, then don’t let them use Air Force 1 to fly all over the place on extravagant vacations using tax payers’ dime.


33 posted on 04/14/2012 8:43:19 AM PDT by JimmyMc
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To: mrsloungitude

Anne’s comments in context:

“The one thing this disease [multiple sclerosis] has been for me has been a wonderful teacher. And with that comes an ability for compassion for others that are suffering and for me, I just want to make my family bigger..... Those that are suffering from MS or from cancer or from any disease, I feel like I just want to throw my arms open and just say: welcome to my family and welcome to the place where I’ve been....

And - and, so, you know, we can be poor in spirit and I don’t - I don’t look - I don’t even consider myself wealthy, which is an interesting thing. It can be here today and gone tomorrow.

And how I measure - how I measure riches is by the friends I have and the loved ones that I have and the people that I care about in my life. And that’s where my values are and that’s - those are my riches.”

You can make your own assessment of why she felt compelled to scramble thru the idea she doesn’t consider herself wealthy....but there is no way that Romneys wealth will be gone tomorrow and she knows that.

Further her MS would be considered a Pre-existing condition if she had to seek Health Insurance...ponder that one for the average American who had to stop work because of their illness and lost their medical coverage for that. She lives a sheltered life far distant from most...and to make it appear otherwise is simply foolish.

The whole idea is Romneys need to stop talking about their wealth....because in ‘reality’ they cannot relate to the average American...and that’s just how it is....but to say she doesn’t feel wealthy then one must ask how much more til she does?


34 posted on 04/14/2012 9:06:44 AM PDT by caww
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To: mrsloungitude
You seem to be buying into the class envy narrative that the democrat party is shilling. If I am wrong, please clarify your statements.

Most recognize there are various levels of income brackets throughout this nation....so it isn't about class envy....What it is about is Anne's inability to just recognize and not try to skirt the reality that Romneys ARE wealthy..... wealth brings with it a cushion from that which most Americans deal with on a daily.....Romneys cannot know the average Americans struggle...they have never been there. To try and make it seem otherwise is more than foolish and again just shows how out of touch they are with most Americans....because they are.

I've been on both sides of wealth.....Romneys are simply being evasive about their wealth as is typical for Romney...so too his wife. And trying to appear as if wealth makes no difference is beyond foolish ....otherwise nobody would be trying to improve their station in life.

35 posted on 04/14/2012 9:17:59 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww
Further her MS would be considered a Pre-existing condition if she had to seek Health Insurance...ponder that one for the average American who had to stop work because of their illness and lost their medical coverage for that

Talking about permanent progressive disease like MS, "The average American who had to stop work because of their illness" can apply for Social Security Disability which makes them eligible for Medicare. I have worked with probably a dozen women in Romney's age range who had/have MS. Every one had Medicare and ample medical services.

So what is your point.

36 posted on 04/14/2012 9:24:34 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: hinckley buzzard

If you haven’t gotten the point yet you never will. You are attempting to paint a picture of Romneys that the average American knows otherwise.

As I said I’ve been on both sides of the wealth issue....there are many issues and things one has to adjust to and make work, or not work, that having wealth to the degree Romneys do , will never have to address nor can they understand.

As for SSD or Medicare.....Mrs. Romney wouldn’t be applying for those any time in the future, now would she....and many who have attempted to do so for being tmporaily disabled, lost their Insurance but would not qualify for SSD within the time frames it takes for that to be determined, not to mention having to go thru the maze required....which can take even up to a year.....so they are out of the qualifying stage...and left with a mountain of bills to pay.


37 posted on 04/14/2012 9:42:24 AM PDT by caww
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To: luvbach1

The disdain for stay at home moms knows no political party. I was the recepient for same from several Republican women who could not believe I was a stay at home mom for my daughter. But they were more than willing to ask for my help with child care when they needed me. And I was more than happy to do so but I could have done without the attitude.


38 posted on 04/14/2012 11:32:47 AM PDT by DallasSun (Courage~Fear that has said its prayers.)
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To: DallasSun

Not surprised that “career” women, including some Republicans, have a snobbish attitude toward working-at-home (better term than stay at home)mothers.


39 posted on 04/14/2012 3:10:01 PM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
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To: luvbach1

Never in my life have I had such contempt directed my way as I did when I was a stay at home mom. I refused to defend myself. It was my choice. And one I have never regretted. I was told by more than one woman what a disappointment I was to the women’s movement. And that was from a “conservative” Republican woman. She worked here at Data Point. I oft times kept her three children for her over night because she worked so late. And when she had to go out of town on business. At those times, she was glad I was a stay at home mother. To this day, I still refuse to defend my decision. As far as the women’s movement goes, it was about the freedom to make choices. I made mine. No one else’ business.


40 posted on 04/14/2012 5:08:21 PM PDT by DallasSun (Courage~Fear that has said its prayers.)
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To: heye2monn
What is wrong with them? Our drunken slacker adolescent men!

The majority of black men can not vote because they have a felony conviction.

Which is also why you get some of the numbers that you do. Most black women vote and they vote democrat. Black men would but usually they can't vote.

41 posted on 04/14/2012 6:03:10 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Would you sing if someone sucked YOU up the vacuum cleaner hose?)
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To: DallasSun

Right you are in your post #40.


42 posted on 04/14/2012 7:30:35 PM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

good points.


43 posted on 04/14/2012 7:52:04 PM PDT by heye2monn
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To: savagesusie
where man is god and declares Good and Evil.

If there were a "like" key I would have pressed it and left it at that, but this mindset has been around since Adam and Eve when Satan told the first lie,

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

44 posted on 04/15/2012 8:22:53 AM PDT by thirst4truth (www.Believer.com)
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To: thirst4truth

Yes-—Human Nature-—it is what Marxists throw out (Natural Law Theory with God being the Designer)-—they think they can perfect mankind when all of human history proves otherwise. Throw out God and Evil and Chaos or Tyranny will reign.


45 posted on 04/15/2012 10:03:24 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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