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The Truth About Mormonism
townhall.com ^ | April 15, 2012 | Stephen Smoot

Posted on 04/15/2012 9:22:28 AM PDT by Kaslin

“Being a Mormon isn't an easy path.”

Heather Beeseck, a sophomore secondary education major at Potomac State College, would know. She has been involved with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for two years and was baptized into the faith on August 6, 2011.

The Church, according to the National Review, is the fourth largest religious organization in the United States. Its numbers expand at 2.5 percent higher rates than the Roman Catholic Church and may soon pass the United Methodist Church in size.

Matt Slick of the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry published estimates that 800 people per day joined the faith. Just under 12 million worship in it worldwide.

Despite their growing strength of numbers, Mormons face a unique challenge of perception. Media coverage is usually the first time that non Mormons are exposed to the faith. As Beeseck explains, “Many people have never met a Latter-Day Saint. Five years ago, I hadn't. The media is all some people ever know about the church, and even once those individuals meet a Mormon, they don't always revise their opinions.”

This can be problematic, as when Lawrence O’Donnell of MSNBC claims that Mormonism was “invented” to excuse “Joseph Smith’s infidelity.” Or when the Huffington Post’s Andrea Stone implies that Mitt Romney has some power to change Church doctrine.

Tom O’Neill, vice chair of the West Virginia Republican Party, has been a Church member for 20 years and active in it for almost a quarter century. He does not see most media coverage as overtly malicious, but says that negative stories “are more often than not the products of misunderstanding.”

Beeseck agrees and states that “for or the most part, the media tries to get its facts right, or at least be believable for their audience.” She then warns that, “when they do get it wrong, the average person believes them.”

Misconceptions stem from salacious accusations about the faith, especially coverage of renegade polygamist cults. Covering these stories without mentioning that the Church does not condone polygamy leaves a false impression in the public mind. For example, Mike Taibbi narrated a segment on NBC’s Rock Center that highlighted an ancestor of Romney’s from the 1800s who fled to Mexico to escape prosecution for polygamy. For some reason, NBC considered this a relevant story to run on the eve of the New Hampshire primary.

Media coverage also tends to describe Mormons as systematically oppressing minorities, homosexuals, and women. They also imply that there are mysterious “secretive rituals.” Some outlets on the fringe of, or outside, the mainstream media do blatantly attack Mormonism. As National Review deputy editor Kevin Williamson writes “there are few if any websites dedicated to ‘unmasking’ the Presbyterian Church U.S.A., but there are dozens dedicated to Mormons.”

The Stone story, featured in the Huffington Post last February, took the Church to task over posthumous proxy baptism of Jewish victims of the Holocaust. O’Neill explains (which is necessary, because Stone does not) that the baptisms are not conversions and that recipients are not considered members of the Church. “The practice is based on a biblical understanding that baptism is a rite essential for salvation, together with the Church’s belief in the inviolate ability of a person to choose for themselves whether or not to accept and ratify, in the hereafter, the baptism performed on their behalf.” Stone did quote a Church spokesman as saying that the practice did not have official sanction.

The story also describes how Mitt Romney refused to respond to calls that he try to force the Church to halt the practice, which is akin to demanding that John F. Kennedy over a half century ago convince the Pope to allow clerical marriage.

One of the largest misconceptions is that Mormons are a single unit of voters that will automatically line up behind one of their own. Media types generally, and falsely, assume that groupthink predominates (or should predominate) over individual choices. Traditional teachings of Mormonism frown upon unthinking acceptance of a political leader. One verse from the Mormon Book of Mosiah states, “Now I say unto you, that because all men are not just it is not expedient that ye should have a king or kings to rule over you”

Beeseck speculates that many Mormons, because of the importance of free agency to their faith, may tend to support Ron Paul. She also says that fear of ramped up intolerance might drive some believers away from voting for Romney. The media often demonstrates a fatal analytical flaw in their analysis of religion, race, and gender in politics. They assume that all members of a group will, or should, vote as s single collective bloc, regardless of individual beliefs. These assumptions also reveal the most important misconception held by political types, that everyone is as obsessed with politics as they are.

The blogger “Ablayn” on MormonPerspectives.com states that even sympathetic coverage misses the mark. “In an attempt to seem evenhanded, they never reach understanding. They never talk about what Mormonism means to the heart of the believer.”

Some of the problems encountered by Mormons in media perception of their church might originate in how the Church evolved in its dealings with the public and the press. O’Neill describes how violence and legal assaults against the Mormon church in the 19th century created “a culture within the Church of introversion.” Threats of violence drove believers out of Missouri and Illinois before the Civil War. In 1903, the US Senate refused allow Reed Smoot (no known relation to the author) to take his seat for four years because he also served in the Church.

This difficult history means that, although the last half-century has seen strong attempts at outreach, the Mormon church has traditionally been turned inward. This contributes to an unintentional air of mystery seen by the general public.

Possibly some pundits have read the Mormon holy writings, which do contradict typical liberal and left wing ideologies. The writings in some cases portray excessive authority and taxation as leading to a breakdown of civil society. Another verse from Mosiah, for example, reads, “and thus they were supported in their laziness, and in their idolatry . . . by the taxes which king Noah had put upon his people; thus did the people labor exceedingly to support iniquity.”

The media often misses positive Mormon stories, such as former NBA player Shawn Bradley’s involvement in a school for troubled youth. Bishop Daniel Peterson described in the Deseret News how his work often focused on helping “people suffering the consequences of drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness, emotional problems, dysfunctional families, poverty, various chronic limitations, joblessness and despair.” Nearly 50,000 missionaries serve somewhere in the world at any given time.

A news media that deigns to preach fairness, diversity, and tolerance to Christians needs to practice the same when it comes to Christians.

O’Neill emphasizes the similarities between Mormons and other Christians. “We are not out to ‘convert the world,’ but to offer an invitation to those who are looking for something. We’re pretty normal, regular people, and we just want to help make our communities better places.”

Beeseck offered her own personal insight, saying “My faith is my life.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: biglove; dogabuser; magicunderwear; romneymormon; sourcetitlenoturl
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To: LomanBill

Wow. I have seen some threads, but this one is quite an eye-opener. I mean, I have some problems with Mormonism, Catholicism, Buddhism, Confucianism, and most forms of Protestantism, but I tend to keep my opinions to myself. If someone tellsme they are a Jehovah’s Witness or Seventh Day Adventist, I shrug, but I am respectful. Faith is belief in something unprovable, but the faithful tend to be unshakeable. Why spend time belittling people because they are members of one or another religion or church? The only religion I have any real problem is with Islam, but I don’t feel comfortable eating a ham sandwich in front of a Moslem. They believe what they believe, and I don’t believe most of what anybody else believes, so I leave it alone.

I have read posts by Jeff Head, and I have utmost respect for him/. I had no idea he was a Mormon, and I won’t respect him any less because of it. The whole poking at the Planet Kolob seems a little underhanded and actually quite juvenile. I hope those people aren’t claiming to be Christians, becausethey make Christianity look bad.

Finally, FreeRepublic is being dragged to new lows by people who denigrate others because of their religious beliefs. I will add an apology for all the times I have poked fun at creationists who believe the Earth was created intact, with fossils and a many-million-year geological history, only 4,800 years ago. Sorry.


101 posted on 04/15/2012 11:22:59 PM PDT by webheart
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To: svcw; Lurker
mean Joseph Smith didn't have a problem with that approach.

But he DOES wish that he'd had a BETTER gun!


JESUS: Hey Smith!       Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But.... 

102 posted on 04/16/2012 4:56:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: webheart
Why spend time belittling people because they are members of one or another religion or church?

That is a valid question.

Here is what drives us:

 
Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
 
Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
 
 
 
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.



103 posted on 04/16/2012 4:58:54 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

You are still prattling on with the bigoted crap I see


104 posted on 04/16/2012 5:00:52 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: webheart
If someone tellsme they are a Jehovah’s Witness or Seventh Day Adventist, I shrug, but I am respectful.

If some organization tells me that what I believe in is corrupted and incorrect, makes claims that are undocumented and then goes on to say that THEIR way is the ONLY correct way; I respectfully ask them to PROVE it.

When they can't - I have NO respect for them.

105 posted on 04/16/2012 5:01:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: webheart
If someone tellsme they are a Jehovah’s Witness or Seventh Day Adventist, I shrug, but I am respectful.

If some organization tells me that what I believe in is corrupted and incorrect, makes claims that are undocumented and then goes on to say that THEIR way is the ONLY correct way; I respectfully ask them to PROVE it.

When they can't - I have NO respect for them.

106 posted on 04/16/2012 5:02:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: webheart
I have read posts by Jeff Head, and I have utmost respect for him/. I had no idea he was a Mormon...

BINGO!!

He, Normandy and others that used to post on FR, go WAY overboard in NEVER mentioning anything MORMON in their posts; but instead focus on things that APPEAR Christian to naive Christians, who are not very knowledgeable about Christianity, and could be seen as down right ignorant to the things that MORMONism represents.


We "ANTI's" (as ANYONE who opposes MORMONism in the slightest is called) will be posting all kinds of things directly from MORMON sources, giving ANYONE who wish a chance to defend it.

Watch and see how well that is accomplished by the MORMON 'faithful'.

You will be able to draw your own conclusions without too much help from we Flying Inmen: few, but mighty.

107 posted on 04/16/2012 5:10:39 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: webheart
2 Corinthians 11:12

And I will keep on doing what I am doing

 in order to cut the ground from under those

who want an opportunity to be considered equal

with us in the things they boast about.

 

108 posted on 04/16/2012 5:11:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: webheart

 2 Corinthians 10:3-6 

 

3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

6And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


109 posted on 04/16/2012 5:16:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: bert
...the bigoted crap ...

BErt, Bert bert....

Do ALL you MORMONs think this way about verses from the Holy BIBLE?

110 posted on 04/16/2012 5:18:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: bert
Do ALL you MORMONs think this way about verses from the Holy BIBLE?

Perhaps some words, dirECTly from 'god' to Joseph Smith, would soothe your soul...


 
See some differences between GOD's Word and the Joseph Smith's 'translation'
 
 


Color coding explanation:
 
Added stuff... Changed stuff... Rearranged stuff... Removed stuff... 
 *(UNDERLINED stuff is the DISTRACTING reference on every tenth word or so that infuses LDS 'scripture' online.)

 
 
 
 

JOSEPH SMITH—MATTHEW
An extract from the translation of the Bible as revealed to Joseph Smith the Prophet in 1831: Matthew 23: 39 and chapter 24.
Jesus foretells the impending destruction of Jerusalem—He also discourses on the second coming of the Son of Man, and the destruction of the wicked.
1 aFor I say unto you, that ye shall not see me henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he who bcometh in the name of the Lord, in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and ccrowned on the right hand of God.
2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple; and his disciples came to him, for to ahear him, saying: Master, show us concerning the buildings of the temple, as thou hast said—They shall be thrown down, and left unto you desolate.
3 And Jesus said unto them: See ye not all these things, and do ye not understand them? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here, upon this temple, one astone upon another that shall not be thrown down.
4 And Jesus left them, and went upon the Mount of Olives. And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be which thou hast said concerning the destruction of the temple, and the Jews; and what is the asign of thy bcoming, and of the cend of the world, or the destruction of the dwicked, which is the end of the world?
5 And Jesus answered, and said unto them: Take heed that no man deceive you;
6 For many shall come in my name, saying—I am aChrist—and shall deceive many;
7 Then shall they deliver you up to be aafflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be bhated of all nations, for my name’s sake;
8 And then shall many be aoffended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another;
9 And many afalse prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many;
10 And because iniquity shall abound, the alove of many shall wax cold;
11 But he that remaineth asteadfast and is not overcome, the same shall be saved.
12 When you, therefore, shall see the aabomination of bdesolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of cJerusalem, then you shall stand in the dholy place; whoso readeth let him understand.
13 Then let them who are in Judea flee into the amountains;
14 Let him who is on the housetop flee, and not return to take anything out of his house;
15 Neither let him who is in the field return back to take his clothes;
16 And wo unto them that are with achild, and unto them that give suck in those days;
17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;
18 For then, in those days, shall be great atribulation on the bJews, and upon the inhabitants of cJerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.
19 All things which have befallen them are only the beginning of the sorrows which shall come upon them.
20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be asaved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the bcovenant, those days shall be shortened.
21 Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not;
22 For in those days there shall also arise false aChrists, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.
23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the aelect’s sake; and you also shall hear of bwars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.
24 Behold, I have told you before;
25 Wherefore, if they shall say unto you: Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not;
26 For as the light of the morning cometh out of the aeast, and shineth even unto the west, and covereth the whole earth, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the acarcass is, there will the eagles be bgathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.
28 And they shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars.
29 Behold I speak for mine elect’s sake; for nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be afamines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
30 And again, because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax acold; but he that shall not be overcome, the same shall be saved.
31 And again, this aGospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all bnations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked;
32 And again shall the aabomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled.
33 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the asun shall be bdarkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the cstars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
34 Verily, I say unto you, this ageneration, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.
35 Although, the days will come, that heaven and earth shall pass away; yet my awords shall not pass away, but all shall be fulfilled.
36 And, as I said before, after the atribulation of those days, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth bmourn; and they shall see the cSon of Man dcoming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory;
37 And whoso atreasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall bcome, and he shall send his cangels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the dremainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
38 Now learn a parable of the afig-tree—When its branches are yet tender, and it begins to put forth leaves, you know that summer is nigh at hand;
39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;
40 But of that day, and hour, no one aknoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.
41 But as it was in the days of aNoah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;
42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the aflood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;
43 And aknew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the alast days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other bleft;
45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;
46 And what I say unto one, I say unto all men; awatch, therefore, for you know not at what hour your Lord doth come.
47 But know this, if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to have been broken up, but would have been ready.
48 Therefore be ye also aready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh.
49 Who, then, is a afaithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
50 Blessed is that aservant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing; and verily I say unto you, he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
51 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord adelayeth his coming,
52 And shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken,
53 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
54 And shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and agnashing of teeth.
55 And thus cometh the aend of the wicked, according to the prophecy of Moses, saying: They shall be cut off from among the people; but the end of the earth is not yet, but by and by.

KJV Matthew 23:38-39 24:1-51
39. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

1. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20. But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25. Behold, I have told you before.
26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49. And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51. And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
King James Version of the Holy Bible
Public domain

111 posted on 04/16/2012 5:19:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: webheart; bert
We "ANTI's" (as ANYONE who opposes MORMONism in the slightest is called) will be posting all kinds of things directly from MORMON sources, giving ANYONE who wish a chance to defend it.

Watch and see how well that is accomplished by the MORMON 'faithful'.

Well lookee here!

Good ol' Bert chimed in at #104!

He musta ploped that down as I was composing my reply.

Talk about KARMA!

112 posted on 04/16/2012 5:22:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: webheart; bert
Finally, FreeRepublic is being dragged to new lows by people who denigrate others because of their religious beliefs.





  "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent"
 
 (The Seer, p. 255  Orson Pratt )

113 posted on 04/16/2012 5:25:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

Travesty....... your trash uses up all the band width of my monthly payment.

If you would cease the Mormon trash, the Freepathon would end early

Nobody reads the multocolored crap you post


114 posted on 04/16/2012 5:27:30 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: Elsie

Ha ha. Good one.


115 posted on 04/16/2012 5:31:29 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: bert
If you would cease the Mormon trash, the Freepathon would end early

Poor Bert. Can't find ANYTHING good to say about MORMONism; so he wants ME to stop posting what the Organization has published.

Why is this considered to be MORMON TRASH???


 
THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 16
 
The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.
 
 
 1 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
  2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
  3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
  4 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
  5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
  6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
  7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
  8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
  9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
  10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
  11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
  12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
  13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.
  14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the aRed Sea.
  15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
  16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
  17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
  18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
  19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
  20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did amurmur against the Lord.
  21 Now  it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
  22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto acomplaining against the Lord their God.
  23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
  24 And it came to pass that he did ainquire of the Lord, for they had bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
  25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
  26 And it came to pass  that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
  27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
  28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
  29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
  30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
  31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
  32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
  33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
  34 And it came to pass that aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called bNahom.
  35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
  36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to areturn again to Jerusalem.
  37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
  38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman bstir up their hearts to canger.
  39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.


116 posted on 04/16/2012 6:31:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: bert
Bert; you DID notice who WROTE the above; right??


 
THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 16
The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.
 
1 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
4 And it came to pass   I, Nephi,did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
7 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also,   I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.
14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the aRed Sea.
15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
18 And it came to pass that as  I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did amurmur against the Lord.
21 Now it came to pass that  I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
22 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto acomplaining against the Lord their God.
23 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, did amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
24 And it came to pass that he did ainquire of the Lord, for they had bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
28 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
30 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
34 And it came to pass that aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called bNahom.
35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to areturn again to Jerusalem.
37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman bstir up their hearts to canger.
39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.


117 posted on 04/16/2012 6:32:39 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: webheart

Oh, please - you didn’t know he was lds. Now that is as funny as Kolob.


118 posted on 04/16/2012 7:34:04 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: LomanBill
"Is being god of Kolob a permanent position or, since it’s just a vacation planet, is it more like an anarcho-syndicalist commune where you’ll take it in turns to be a sort of Executive Supreme God Man and Officer for the week — You know, an honorary god of the cruise ship during mardi gras sort of thing...?"

---------

Here, here!

119 posted on 04/16/2012 8:23:02 AM PDT by freedomlover (Make sure you're in love - before you move in the heavy stuff)
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To: Elsie
Speaking of Elsie

Your friends in Utah are hurting!

120 posted on 04/16/2012 8:54:20 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: webheart
Finally, FreeRepublic is being dragged to new lows by people who denigrate others because of their religious beliefs.

If you signed on in 1999, how did you miss that there have been religious discussions with people on FR denigrating others because of their religious beliefs for years?

Additionally, every single day 52,000 mormon missionaries go out into the world and denigrate the Christian faith by claiming that every Christian faith is false and the only way to salvation is to be baptized mormon and take part in arcane rituals in the mormon temple.

Read this, direct from the headquarters of the mormon church.

The Only True and Living Church

"Joseph Smith’s First Vision showed that the prevailing concepts of the nature of God and the Godhead were untrue and could not lead their adherents to the destiny God desired for them (see Joseph Smith—History 1:17–19)."

THIS is what Mitt Romney believes...ONLY his way is the way to salvation...

A simple solution for you is to refrain from reading any thread that has "mormon" in the title or do do a little research on what mormonism actually is.

121 posted on 04/16/2012 9:08:11 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I do not expect the (FR) house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided-Jim Robinson)
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To: bert; Elsie
You are still prattling on with the bigoted crap I see

Every day, 52 THOUSAND mormon missionaries go out and prattle the bigoted crap that all Christian faiths are false and the only way to salvation is to be baptized mormon and take part in arcane rituals in the mormon temple (which rituals, BTW you can only take part in if you pay 10% of your income in tithing).

Is this OK with you?

122 posted on 04/16/2012 9:19:12 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I do not expect the (FR) house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided-Jim Robinson)
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To: bert; Elsie

bert, that is just silly Elsie is not a mormon.


123 posted on 04/16/2012 9:45:23 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Utah Binger

This is udderly deplorable!

Those folks are trying to milk it for all it’s worth!!

Please keep me abreast of the situtation!!!


124 posted on 04/16/2012 10:01:08 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: svcw

But; I’m beginning to THINK like one!


125 posted on 04/16/2012 10:02:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

Teat for tat.


126 posted on 04/16/2012 10:20:53 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: bert

I agree bert, the words from the mormon books are trash and crap, then I will add blaspheming God Almighty.


127 posted on 04/16/2012 10:29:39 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: greyfoxx39

So what? I am not the Christian Taliban who insists on my beliefs or none.

We live in America not some totalitarian Christian state.

It is none of your business what others believe.


128 posted on 04/16/2012 10:54:38 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: bert
It is none of your business what others believe.

Then why are YOU so riled up?

Come on: say SOMEthing good about MORMONism.

129 posted on 04/16/2012 10:58:01 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: bert
So what? I am not the Christian Taliban who insists on my beliefs or none

We live in America not some totalitarian Christian state.

You defend the mormon taliban that insists on its beliefs or none. The mormons intend that their totalitarian sect will rule the world, and Mitt is the forerunner.

“What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” Orson Hyde (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53)

“The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses,John Taylor vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862)

130 posted on 04/16/2012 11:19:38 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I do not expect the (FR) house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided-Jim Robinson)
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To: Elsie

I have no day to day contact with Mormon folks but have met and dealt with several. I have found them to be good , even excellent, people.

For instance.......

I spent a week in a youth training seminar at Philmont and there were several Mormon Scouters from Utah. The Utah Mormons have made major contributions (organizationally and theoretically) to the development of the Venture Scouting program. They were all outstanding men. They practice what they preach, solid family life for God and country.

In October I traveled the Great River Road from Minnesota to the Gulf, down the Mississippi river through the very heart and soul of America. We visited the town of Nauvoo Illinois where the Mormons have created a living museum and visitor center. I met an wonderfully gracious gentlemen volunteer from Alabama who knowing I was not of his faith led us through the history of the movement west. They have made a great effort to preserve the heritage of that westward movement. It seems those intolerant souls who murdered Joseph Smith are still alive and well in America today.

My objection is to the strident, bigoted self righteousness here that masks a political view. We should be better than that on Free Republic and once were. It is in my view unAmerican to trash good people in the name of one’s own very narrow minded belief. To trash them for a trivial political point is even worse. It is uncalled for and should cease.


131 posted on 04/16/2012 11:45:06 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: bert; greyfoxx39; Elsie
It is none of your business what others believe.

Then what do you care about what others are saying religiously???

Doesn't your own standards -- your own supposed "absolutes" that you dogmatically preach to others -- like this one: "It is none of your business what others believe."...Doesn't this apply to yourself???

Why do you care what they proclaim religiously...apparently, that's NONE [as in ZERO] of your business, anyway (per your own standard).

What are we to believe?
What you preach [what business is whom's]?
Or what you practice? [what you've done by coming into this thread to insist that people act according to your prescribed 'business' standards of dealing with others religiously]

You're a dual-faced hypocrite who has refuted himself!

132 posted on 04/16/2012 12:28:07 PM PDT by Colofornian ( The Romneybots are political descendents of Esau: Trading a FR inheritance for a 'lentil soup' guy)
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To: bert; Elsie
I have no day to day contact with Mormon folks but have met and dealt with several. I have found them to be good , even excellent, people.

I have many Lds relatives whom I love...Yet I can tell you that even Jesus questioned somebody who called him "good"...Jesus questioned the assumption that He was good (not the actuality or factuality of it).

I can also tell you that when you're auditioning for godhood like temple Mormons are, of course you're going to be on your best public behavior.

Even Jesus, in His sermon on the mount, highly complimented the outward behavior of the Pharisees, saying that unless one displayed the same outward righteousness as the Pharisees, they would IN NO WAY inherit the kingdom of God. But Jesus didn't stop there...

In Matthew 23, He labeled the inward nature of the Pharisees like whitewashed tombstones...and in John 8, labeled them children of the devil. Perhaps the closest contemporary legalists we have to the Pharisees are the Mormons.

133 posted on 04/16/2012 12:33:28 PM PDT by Colofornian ( The Romneybots are political descendents of Esau: Trading a FR inheritance for a 'lentil soup' guy)
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To: Colofornian

My posts are not really about beliefs, mine or others.

I’m posting for those who come from outside to gather propaganda on right wing cooks. I want them to know there is at least one rational minded person on Free Republic that objects to Mormonphobe harangues.

I object to the downgrading of Free Republic standards of civility and American principle


134 posted on 04/16/2012 12:39:54 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: bert; Elsie; greyfoxx39
My objection is to the strident, bigoted self righteousness here that masks a political view. We should be better than that on Free Republic and once were. It is in my view unAmerican to trash good people in the name of one’s own very narrow minded belief

Well...let's see...you've just trashed good people as being...
...strident
...bigoted
...self-righteous
...ill-motivated
...UN-American
...etc.
...Care to add to that list???

Tell us, something, Bert...Are you "trying" to teach some class here on "How to be tolerant in 6 or 7 easy steps" or something?

Your labeling...your name-calling...your bashing...your trashing here...Are these earmarks of some great "enlightened" level of tolerance here?

You actually trash others for what you perceive to be trashing others...and you expect to get away with this kind of absurd hypocrisy???

What? You can't even put two sentences together without contradicting yourself? Without refuting yourself???

Is it your message that we're supposed to be hearing...???

Or your practice???

Seems to me that you're pretty intolerant -- "bigoted" if you will -- toward certain religious worldviews that happen to object to Mormonism...

135 posted on 04/16/2012 12:43:06 PM PDT by Colofornian ( The Romneybots are political descendents of Esau: Trading a FR inheritance for a 'lentil soup' guy)
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To: bert; Elsie; greyfoxx39
I object to the downgrading of Free Republic standards of civility and American principle

See my post #135...You seriously call all those words you've trashed others with -- the ones I pointed out in post #135 -- as some primer on how to have a "civil" discussion???

Really???

136 posted on 04/16/2012 12:45:32 PM PDT by Colofornian ( The Romneybots are political descendents of Esau: Trading a FR inheritance for a 'lentil soup' guy)
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To: bert
It is uncalled for and should cease.

Ha ha!

You should talk to those on the RECEIVING end of Mitt's political rhetoric!

Romney's spending was on NOTHING but trash talk!

137 posted on 04/16/2012 12:57:35 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: webheart; LomanBill; bert
The whole poking at the Planet Kolob seems a little underhanded and actually quite juvenile

ALL of it is underhanded & juvenile???...Is this some absolute conclusion based upon your personal omniscience???

You know, Kolob happens to be mentioned in the Lds Pearl of Great Price (one of their "Scriptures").

It's either a real place -- which calls for respect...or a purely mythical one...which calls for derision...no less than L. Ron Hubbard's "Thetan" -- who supposedly abandons a physical body & then heads to a "landing station" on Venus...

Tell us, Webheart...have you visited plenty of places on the Web, asking posters to show some respect for this Scientology "landing station" on Venus???

If no, aren't you being a wee bit on the inconsistent side here???

Have you patrolled the Web...asking posters to curtail any negative comments about Thetans???

I mean, let's say we had two POTUS candidates -- one a Scientologist and another a "True-Believing Mormon."

Per wikipedia, a Scientologist believes that people are "immortal alien spiritual being, termed a thetan, that is trapped on planet Earth in a physical body." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_beliefs_and_practices

Similarly, a Mormon believes that people are immortal alien spiritual beings, termed residents of Kolob, that come to planet Earth to inhabit physical bodies.

That's part of a true-believing Mormon's testimony -- and it's why they believe ALL people on earth can call their god "Heavenly Father." They believe this "fatherhood" status was a true spirit-paternity in a "pre-existence" on Kolob.

Well, if 'birthers' demand "proof" for Obama -- and if you haven't lectured them on FR; I'd like to see some "proof" for Romney "spirit-birth" on Kolob!

Testimony in a court of law is treated to some degree as "proof." I'd like to hear it from their lips that they were "spirit-born" on Kolob to a divine goddess.

Probably would then foster a whole new spirit-birther" movement!

138 posted on 04/16/2012 12:59:02 PM PDT by Colofornian ( The Romneybots are political descendents of Esau: Trading a FR inheritance for a 'lentil soup' guy)
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To: bert
I object to the downgrading of Free Republic standards of civility and American principle

Harry Truman had some things to say about folks like you:



139 posted on 04/16/2012 1:00:01 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
Easy C.  Remember with whom you are dealing here...

 

 

 

My great unpublished work involves Wooly Worms. 


140 posted on 04/16/2012 1:03:13 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
My great unpublished work involves Wooly Worms.

The one in the white lab coat has the same interest!

But I believe that her's involves a taste test.



141 posted on 04/16/2012 1:07:33 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: bert; greyfoxx39; Elsie
We visited the town of Nauvoo Illinois where the Mormons have created a living museum and visitor center. I met an wonderfully gracious gentlemen volunteer from Alabama who knowing I was not of his faith led us through the history of the movement west. They have made a great effort to preserve the heritage of that westward movement. It seems those intolerant souls who murdered Joseph Smith are still alive and well in America today.

Did you know, Bert, that Joseph Smith went down in a gun battle??? (Did your tour hosts forget to mention that wee little fact???)

He used up one gun -- and had another loaded gun...

Are you consistent then?

If a prisoner were to today -- in your local jail -- get ahold of two loaded weapons...and he was to die in proximity to 200 armed men (non-prisoners)...all as he fires at least 6 shots...that's not a gun battle either...just because the ratio is 200:1?

Whatever your squeamishness about it, ya gotta understand it that it's usually portrayed as a martyrdom. I'm sorry, but sacrificial lambs don't go down shooting & killing people as did Joseph Smith.

142 posted on 04/16/2012 1:08:12 PM PDT by Colofornian ( The Romneybots are political descendents of Esau: Trading a FR inheritance for a 'lentil soup' guy)
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To: bert; Colofornian
It is none of your business what others believe.

When "others" are attempting to take over the position of POTUS, it damn sure IS my business...or do you think it's not YOUR business what Obama believes?

143 posted on 04/16/2012 1:25:20 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I do not expect the (FR) house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided-Jim Robinson)
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To: webheart

[The whole poking at the Planet Kolob seems a little underhanded ]

It’s a religious FRAUD in the context of a religious concoction that is RIDDLED with fraud.

Just like the other Islam.


144 posted on 04/16/2012 4:58:35 PM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: freedomlover

>>Here, here!

[ElvisPeasantVoice-ON]

Thankyou. Thankyouverymuch.

[ElvisPeasantVoice-OFF]


145 posted on 04/16/2012 5:07:07 PM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: Colofornian; bert
Did you know, Bert, that Joseph Smith went down in a gun battle??? (Did your tour hosts forget to mention that wee little fact???)




JESUS: Hey Smith!       Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But.... 

146 posted on 04/17/2012 5:13:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
 

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

 


147 posted on 04/17/2012 5:18:16 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: webheart
>>Wow.
 
Well, since you brought that up...

Twinkle Twinkle, Morning Star

 

Homage to Stanley Kubrick's 2001 - A Space Odyssey.
Sans the Eclipse, of course.
Prometheus, Lucifer,
Morning Star,
Sun

"WoW"
 
 

148 posted on 04/17/2012 6:27:36 AM PDT by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: Elsie

“Travesty....... your trash uses up all the band width of my monthly payment.

If you would cease the Mormon trash, the Freepathon would end early

Nobody reads the multocolored crap you post”


What’s this “multocolored” crap I’m hearing about? Elsie have you discovered some new HTML code?


149 posted on 04/17/2012 7:28:38 AM PDT by freedomlover (Make sure you're in love - before you move in the heavy stuff)
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To: bert; greyfoxx39
It seems those intolerant souls who murdered Joseph Smith are still alive and well in America today.

Yes, smith was murdered - but you leave out the 'rest of the story' don't you. Why was he jailed? He was jailed because he illegally ordered the destruction of a newspaper that exposed his polygamy and other less religious dealings as the 'general' of Nauvoo. Now how "tolerant" was that bert? smith also sent his danite raiders out to harass and kill those who left the mormon church in light of his extravagant living and dictatorial leadership - sounds real tolerant as well eh bert? Nauvoo was a dictatorship, nothing less, by smith. His jailing for treason was just the tip of the iceberg.

And since you mentioned scouting - until 1978 black boys in lds sponsored boy scout troops were not allowed to hold positions of leadership in the troop, such as patrol leader, sr. patrol leader, etc simply because they were black. How outstanding was that bert, wonderful contribution huh.

Finally, much of that 'westward movement' though interesting has been severly whitewashed. Gone is young's boondoggle 'handcart' escapade where he forced them to buy cheaply made carts and participate in poorly organized groups by "god's direction" as the prophet. Or his direction to slaughter a wagon train passing through southern Utah headed for Oregon as well as harassing several others.

Excellent people - right - as how nice they were to the flds who asked them for books of mormon a couple of years ago.

150 posted on 04/17/2012 8:27:08 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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