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Wind power sagging - "That was quite a surprise to all of us"
Arizona Daily Sun ^ | April 15, 2012 | Cyndy Cole

Posted on 04/16/2012 12:04:41 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

Only months after Coconino County's first major wind energy farm got up and running this winter, the utility buying its power says more wind farms here are unlikely -- at least for now.

Cost is the bottom line, with the sun beating the wind on both equipment prices and time-of-day power production.

This disadvantage for wind could have some implications for a handful of other big wind projects proposed in Coconino County.

A worldwide glut of solar panels produced at lower costs (including from China) has cut solar panel prices to a fraction of their former cost.

So Arizona Public Service is likely to turn to solar in the coming years to meet a state mandate that it generate 15 percent of its energy from renewables by 2025. APS gets about 5 percent of its electricity from renewable sources today.

"Right now, it looks like solar -- photovoltaic -- is the lowest-cost resource," said Gordon Samuel, who plans future energy supplies at APS.

Also, the wind here doesn't produce enough power when APS and Phoenix need it most: on hot summer afternoons.

While Flagstaff is fine for solar electricity generation, Samuel said, Gila Bend and the Yuma area are even better for the big power demands of the Phoenix region, so those locations are more likely to be sites for future projects.

PERRIN RANCH THE LAST?

This all comes not long after Coconino County supervisors approved by a narrow margin in February 2011 the installation of 62 wind turbines, each about 400 feet tall, on a ranch 13 miles north of Williams. A group of neighbors argued last year during 13 hours of public meetings that the turbines at Perrin Ranch would affect the tranquility of the landscape and not generate all that much power.

It was at a supervisors meeting earlier this month that Samuel said more wind projects were not likely right now and outlined the reasons.

"It was all I could do not to jump up and down and yell 'I told you so! I told you so!'" said Linda Webb, an outspoken opponent of Perrin Ranch. "But we were a little more restrained than that."

There are no wind projects for Arizona outlined in a document APS put out in March to show where it might find renewable energy into future years.

The Perrin Ranch wind farm is one of the larger renewable projects APS has today. But when running at full capacity, it generates only about 10 percent of what a natural-gas-fired plant in Phoenix can produce.

Samuel said Perrin Ranch was competitive a couple of years ago when APS signed contracts with a developer, but that was before photovoltaic prices plummeted.

"The economics did look attractive," he said.

A SURPRISE TO ALL

Coconino County was planning for more renewable energy here, and its planning and zoning commission was weighing overall guidelines on where renewable energy should or shouldn't be located, along with avoiding risks to birds and bats.

Coconino County Supervisor Carl Taylor has been the board's most vocal proponent of renewable energy, better-insulated homes and water conservation measures.

He and others were surprised by APS's announcement earlier this month.

"That was quite a surprise to all of us," he said.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS: energy; environment; epa; windpower
A SURPRISE TO ALL

Not really.

"It was all I could do not to jump up and down and yell 'I told you so! I told you so!'" said Linda Webb, an outspoken opponent of Perrin Ranch. "But we were a little more restrained than that."

1 posted on 04/16/2012 12:04:51 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
So Arizona Public Service is likely to turn to solar in the coming years to meet a state mandate that it generate 15 percent of its energy from renewables by 2025. APS gets about 5 percent of its electricity from renewable sources today.

APS should have sued.

Where does the state get the power to tell an investor owned company how to run their business?

Sounds like an unconstitutional law to me.

Every time some legislature comes out with this crap it should be sued all the way to the USSC. The USSC should be drowning in these suits.

2 posted on 04/16/2012 12:50:41 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

[”Right now, it looks like solar — photovoltaic — is the lowest-cost resource,” said Gordon Samuel, who plans future energy supplies at APS.]

Gordon needs to check out coal. He might be pleasantly surprised.


3 posted on 04/16/2012 12:51:28 AM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: Pontiac; Brad from Tennessee
The Perrin Ranch wind farm is one of the larger renewable projects APS has today. But when running at full capacity, it generates only about 10 percent of what a natural-gas-fired plant in Phoenix can produce.

[Newt explains to Obama that you DRILL for natural gas] Newt to Obama: This is What a Drilling Platform Looks Like

Newt’s Visit to an Alabama Gas Station

4 posted on 04/16/2012 12:55:26 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Thanks for the link. First time I’ve seen this.


5 posted on 04/16/2012 1:00:08 AM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Hmmm - sounds like these Wind Power numbers, were, um,
.
.
.
...UNEXPECTED.


6 posted on 04/16/2012 1:03:12 AM PDT by 21twelve
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Google: “14000 wind turbines” and this is what you get!
“The US experience with wind farms has left over 14,000 wind turbines abandoned and slowly decaying, in most instances the turbines are just left as symbols of a dying Climate Religion, nowhere have the Green Environmentalists appeared to clear up their mess or even complain about the abandoned wind farms.” It’s simple, No subsides, no wind farms.


7 posted on 04/16/2012 1:05:20 AM PDT by Colorado Cowgirl (God bless America!)
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To: Pontiac
So Arizona Public Service is likely to turn to solar in the coming years to meet a state mandate that it generate 15 percent of its energy from renewables by 2025. APS gets about 5 percent of its electricity from renewable sources today.

"APS should have sued. Where does the state get the power to tell an investor owned company how to run their business?"

This is now a state by state, nation-wide requirement (the Department of Energy and EPA regulations have demanded compliance].

_____________________________________

Feb 16, 2010: Texas Takes Legal Action Against Federal Government Over EPA CO2 Mandates "Gov. Rick Perry, Attorney General Greg Abbott and Agriculture Commissioner Todd Staples today announced that the state is taking legal action in the U.S. Court of Appeals challenging the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) endangerment finding for greenhouse gases.

“Texas is aggressively seeking its future in alternative energy through incentives and innovation, not mandates and overreaching regulation,” Gov. Perry said. “The EPA’s misguided plan paints a big target on the backs of Texas agriculture and energy producers and the hundreds of thousands of Texans they employ. This legal action is being taken to protect the Texas economy and the jobs that go with it, as well as defend Texas’ freedom to continue our successful environmental strategies free from federal overreach.”

The state has filed a Petition for Review with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit, and will also file a Petition for Reconsideration with the Environmental Protection Agency, asking the administrator to review her decision. The state’s legal action indicates EPA’s Endangerment Finding is legally unsupported because the agency outsourced its scientific assessment to the International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which has been discredited by evidence of key scientists’ lack of objectivity, coordinated efforts to hide flaws in their research, attempts to keep contravening evidence out of IPCC reports and violation of freedom of information laws."......

Sept 29, 2011: Texas led more than a dozen states in suing the EPA

March 27, 2012: Texas wins latest round with EPA in federal court "AN ANTONIO (AP) — A federal appeals court scolded the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on Tuesday for rejecting a series of state pollution control projects in Texas that federal regulators said failed to satisfy requirements of the Clean Air Act.

The ruling from the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals stopped short of ordering the EPA to accept the previously rejected Texas measures. Yet the three-judge panel directed the agency to take another look at the state's regulations and issue a quick decision.

At issue are state permits that govern pollution control projects at coal plants and energy producers in Texas. The EPA must sign off on the permit standards, but Judge Jennifer Elrod condemned the agency for waiting four years before taking action. The statutory deadline is 18 months.

"Because the EPA waited until more than three years after the statutory deadline to act on Texas's submission, we order the EPA to reconsider it expeditiously," Elrod wrote.".....

8 posted on 04/16/2012 1:18:53 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Colorado Cowgirl
.....It’s simple, No subsides, no wind farms.

B-U-M-P!

9 posted on 04/16/2012 1:20:00 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: 21twelve

“Shocked!”


10 posted on 04/16/2012 1:24:37 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"Because the EPA waited until more than three years after the statutory deadline to act on Texas's submission, we order the EPA to reconsider it expeditiously," Elrod wrote.".....

The order should have been to approve Texas’s submission. It is unreasonable to expect industry to wait until some bureaucrat decides to get off his bum and do his job before they pursue a project. If it is statutory deadline either you have met that deadline or you have not. Progress waits for no man.

11 posted on 04/16/2012 1:38:41 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

It’s an amazing scam and power grab — but it keeps a lot of lawyers busy and well fed and a lot of Americans out of work and struggling (as well as the entire U.S. economy).


12 posted on 04/16/2012 1:56:38 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Colorado Cowgirl

There removal will provide income for a lawyer someday. Perhaps years of income.


13 posted on 04/16/2012 2:36:16 AM PDT by justrepublican (Screaming like a "Vexatious requester" at a Wellstone memorial...........)
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To: justrepublican

As Jimi Hendrix may have put it: “And the wind cries bankrupt…” There is money in cannibalizing parts and metal, but hopefully no money for lawyers!


14 posted on 04/16/2012 2:50:49 AM PDT by Colorado Cowgirl (God bless America!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

My son-in-law in Denmark says that Wind Farms are being used to generate Hydrogen for cars since there are a good number of Fuel Cell cars out there.


15 posted on 04/16/2012 2:50:53 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: sr4402

A double loser.


16 posted on 04/16/2012 2:55:48 AM PDT by nuke rocketeer (File CONGRESS.SYS corrupted: Re-boot Washington D.C (Y/N)?)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"That was quite a surprise to all of us," he said.


17 posted on 04/16/2012 3:24:54 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Would I like to be young again? No, I worked too hard to get here, I don't want to do it again)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I can’t believe it, but people are still pushing to get these wind farms built in the Great Lakes.


18 posted on 04/16/2012 4:03:20 AM PDT by laker_dad
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"Right now, it looks like solar -- photovoltaic -- is the lowest-cost resource

The hell it is. Look at your figures again, but this time with no subsidies, and use real-world generation figures rather than label figures.

19 posted on 04/16/2012 4:34:05 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

What would happen if Texas simply ignored the EPA?
I doubt the Feds. would send in troops and I believe I read that Texas is electrical power independent.


20 posted on 04/16/2012 4:59:57 AM PDT by Vinnie (A)
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To: Vinnie

The Feds hold the power of the purse over states on many things (and why we’re in this situation).

I expect they would close the “purse” and make a lot of agencies squeal (as they’re doing now because Perry won’t fund Planned Parenthood).


21 posted on 04/16/2012 5:06:30 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: agere_contra

Bump!!


22 posted on 04/16/2012 5:07:13 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I hate the wind farms. I've lived in Arizona all my life and the very idea that someone would attempt that is laughable. Talk about destroying the earth! The noise and vibration is incredibly destructive and very little energy is produced.
23 posted on 04/16/2012 5:39:39 AM PDT by McGavin999
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Why does the name Sam Lovejoy pop into my head at moments like this?

Just askin'
24 posted on 04/16/2012 5:50:08 AM PDT by Peet (Cogito ergo dubito.)
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To: McGavin999

But that wind farm was highly successful in accomplishing its real goal - making liberals feel good about themselves as the “good people” they falsely believe they are for “caring about the erf”.


25 posted on 04/16/2012 5:58:05 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; Pontiac
"Because the EPA waited more than three years"

That 3 year period began in 2007 with the SCOTUS decision on New Source Review.

The first 22 months was when Bush didn't move on it. Then, when Obama came in, Congress immediately began working on Cap and Trade so Obama's EPA was working the CO2 so it was well into 2010 before EPA moved on it.

Plus, EPA and everyone else thought is was only a campaign issue in Texas. Perry/GOP wanted to use it as campaign issue against the dem candidate, Houston Mayor White, and after the election, Texas would get in conformance.

But, in Dec, after the Nov 2010 election, Perry jumped on it even harder, which was a signal that Perry would run for prez, which he finnaly annouced in Aug/Sept 2011.

26 posted on 04/16/2012 6:06:41 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Colorado Cowgirl
I like the idea of renewable energy, but I have to say I think the wind turbines ruin landscapes....they have them along the Gorge in between Washington and Oregon, and it destroys a lot of beautiful scenery....

not that scenary is most important, but if wind power is as inefficent as it seems, then why do it?....

27 posted on 04/16/2012 7:47:13 AM PDT by cherry
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28 posted on 04/16/2012 8:11:53 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: Ben Ficklin; Cincinatus' Wife
Plus, EPA and everyone else thought is was only a campaign issue in Texas.

But, in Dec, after the Nov 2010 election, Perry jumped on it even harder, which was a signal that Perry would run for prez

Well I am glad that people want to be President then. If that what it takes for politicians to do the right thing and fight Federal imposition of idiotic regulations I am glad that some men are ambitious enough to stand for what is right.

29 posted on 04/16/2012 4:55:29 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: cherry; Colorado Cowgirl; Cincinatus' Wife
I like the idea of renewable energy… but if wind power is as inefficent as it seems, then why do it?....

Exactly. Regardless of efficiency the transition from one energy source to another should not be dictated by the Federal government and should not be subsidized by Federal Tax dollars.

30 posted on 04/16/2012 5:16:11 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac; cherry; Cincinatus' Wife

Fears over the safety of wind turbines in high winds have been raised after one burst into flames and another crashed to the ground. “We see turbine fires around the world when it gets very, very windy,” They usually shut themselves off as a safety feature. Almost 60,000 Scottish homes were without power on 09 Dec 2011. The next day Scottish Hydro said that 105,000 of its customers were left without power.
Tens of thousands of people were left without power during the coldest night of the winter. When it happens here we will be watching TV by candle light. I’m not anti wind farms totally, but if you don’t have a power plant for backup power during these failures, then you are in the dark and if it’s winter then you are freezing also. We should take it slow and no Federal subsides!


31 posted on 04/16/2012 8:11:48 PM PDT by Colorado Cowgirl (God bless America!)
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