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Taxes Prompt More Americans to Renounce Citizenship
Reuters/CNBC ^ | 4/16/12

Posted on 04/16/2012 6:43:58 PM PDT by markomalley

A year ago, in Action Comics, Superman declared plans to renounce his U.S. citizenship.

"'Truth, justice, and the American way' — it's not enough anymore," the comic book superhero said, after both the Iranian and American governments criticized him for joining a peaceful anti-government protest in Tehran.

Last year, almost 1,800 people followed Superman's lead, renouncing their U.S. citizenship or handing in their Green Cards. That's a record number since the Internal Revenue Service began publishing a list of those who renounced in 1998. It's also almost eight times more than the number of citizens who renounced in 2008, and more than the total for 2007, 2008 and 2009 combined.

But not everyone's motivations are as lofty as Superman's. Many say they parted ways with America for tax reasons.

The United States is one of the only countries to tax its citizens on income earned while they're living abroad. And just as Americans stateside must file tax returns each April — this year, the deadline is Tuesday — an estimated 6.3 million U.S. citizens living abroad brace for what they describe as an even tougher process of reporting their income and foreign accounts to the IRS. For them, the deadline is June.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnbc.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Extended News; Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: 2012election; agitprop; antiamericanism; election2012; expats; kenyanbornmuzzie; loveitorleaveit; mittromney; obaamcitizenofworld; obama; obamarenouncedin2008; obamarenouncedusa; rapingmychildhood; renouncecitizenship; superman
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To: ciaocotc

Right now we’re suffering from laws aimed at a specific class of people (hate crimes), bills of attainder, usurious taxation, oppression... they’ve got their thumb on us pretty good. It may be the inflation that does them in. Won’t do anybody much good to be on the government teat if the money they get from the government is nothing but worthless scrip. Then they won’t be able to keep up the charade about the “rich”. Everybody will be keeping an eye out for the feds.


51 posted on 04/17/2012 9:17:39 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Cheney/Rumsfeld 2012)
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To: Theoria

“Let me know when you can open carry or simply carry in Singapore or Hong Kong.

Lots of people in Singapore don’t even lock their doors.

I believe the excess government regulation, excess invasion of privacy, usurpation of property rights and usurpation of liberty, the rise of freeloaders, debasement of our money, etc. is all conspiring to lead to the twilight of our country. In the meantime, Asia is on the rise. Asia now has more initial public offerings in the stock markets than the USA and the UK combined.

Unfortunately, I don’t see Romney as a solution to any of that.

Many are moving to secure second passports, now that the US is passing legislation to take away your right to a passport if you owe child support or back taxes. They are just as interested in freedom (and freedom of movement) as in paying lower taxes. Eventually, it is likely that capital controls are put into place to prevent you from moving your money to a better place. Eventually, they may restrict your ability to keep your options open.

I believe all that above is why people are making these choices. In terms of relinquishing citizenship here, I believe the Blue passport is the most expensive in the world.

Ultimately, it appears the only freedom from government excess is the age old multi-flag plan:

Citizenship in a low or no tax country
A$$ a different country, where you are a “tourist”
Source of income generated in a different country
Investments stored in another country.

As the saying goes, countries love tourists, but penalize citizens.


52 posted on 04/17/2012 9:17:53 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("Of two evils, choose neither." -- Charles Spurgeon)
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To: ciaocotc
There are many ways this could turn around. Elections. Political education programs. If necessary - direct action.

When the majority of the undocumented voters vote themselves more Obama dollars, voting does not work. The judges declare morjority votes moot and One UAV can kill your whole militia,,, what do you do?

if the building is full of rats and fully engulfed in fire, it's best to let it burn and come back to rebuild.

Please advise what advantage I have for being a American citizen. (unless black/Mex unemployed female with bastards)

53 posted on 04/17/2012 9:38:51 AM PDT by MrPiper
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To: markomalley

Who is John Galt?


54 posted on 04/17/2012 9:39:54 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (FUMR)
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To: Repeat Offender

I was referring to the fact that in those times, the revolutionary leaders did identify with their respective pre-state colonies more than with the Crown. They were a minority, but better citizens and leaders than their Loyalist opponents.


55 posted on 04/17/2012 9:56:39 AM PDT by ngat
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To: Sequoyah101

You missed Chile, worth considering.


56 posted on 04/17/2012 9:58:16 AM PDT by George from New England
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To: Secret Agent Man
You could still vote too.

Because that's worked so well in the past?

57 posted on 04/17/2012 10:07:30 AM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: markomalley

Is this really a relevant posting? 1800 people out of millions and millions of us? What’s worse is I’m reponding to it in this post. This is nonsense.


58 posted on 04/17/2012 10:12:03 AM PDT by nikos1121
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.
.

STEP #1 :

A - Give a gift of $24,000 to each of your children

B - Now deduct $24,000 from your taxable for each of your children

STEP #2 :

A - Set up part of your home as a business office

B - Deduct part of your home utility expenses, phone bill, internet expenses, mortgage payments, and property taxes

STEP #3 :

A - Get serious about bartering for new and used items and services

STEP #4 :

A - THE BUFFET RULE: Alternate (deductible) business lunches (and other meals) with other friendly business peeps

B - Investigate the mucho El Cheapo vehicle full replacement insurance coverage for your garaged Classic Car (or PU or SUV) from Hagarty and the other Classic Car insurance company (I forget the company name - Try GOOGLE!) that advertises on the SPEED Channel

C - Deduct all or part the expenses, maintenance, insurance, and gasoline for for some or all your motor vehicles

D - Investigate leasing business use vehicles from your brother or another close relative

STEP #4 :

A - By now you should made great friends with a great CPA and bartered their services for some of your new or used items or services

STEP #5 :

A - By now the IRS and State Revenue Department will find you are a nearly or actually non-profit tax-exempt entity

STEP #6 :

A - Apply for any and all government bailouts and/or subsides and/or rebates

STEP #7 :

A - Improvise, etc.

B - Get a job with the GSA

.
.


59 posted on 04/17/2012 10:13:27 AM PDT by devolve (---- --------insanity_is_alive_and_mucho_malignant----------)
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To: Theoria

Good point but you probably don’t need a gun in Singapore at least not the times I’ve been there.

Storms usually never last do they? I wonder what wind will blow this one out and what will be left when it leaves?


60 posted on 04/17/2012 10:18:47 AM PDT by Sequoyah101
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To: devolve
. . STEP #1 : A - Give a gift of $24,000 to each of your children B - Now deduct $24,000 from your taxable for each of your children STEP #2 : A - Set up part of your home as a business office B - Deduct part of your home utility expenses, phone bill, internet expenses, mortgage payments, and property taxes STEP #3 : A - Get serious about bartering for new and used items and services STEP #4 : A - THE BUFFET RULE: Alternate (deductible) business lunches (and other meals) with other friendly business peeps B - Investigate the mucho El Cheapo vehicle full replacement insurance coverage for your garaged Classic Car (or PU or SUV) from Hagarty and the other Classic Car insurance company (I forget the company name - Try GOOGLE!) that advertises on the SPEED Channel C - Deduct all or part the expenses, maintenance, insurance, and gasoline for for some or all your motor vehicles D - Investigate leasing business use vehicles from your brother or another close relative STEP #4 : A - By now you should made great friends with a great CPA and bartered their services for some of your new or used items or services STEP #5 : A - By now the IRS and State Revenue Department will find you are a nearly or actually non-profit tax-exempt entity STEP #6 : A - Apply for any and all government bailouts and/or subsides and/or rebates STEP #7 : A - Improvise, etc.

in other words, just play ball with said dictator

61 posted on 04/17/2012 10:18:58 AM PDT by MrPiper
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To: LadyBuck

Really. Who are these weasels that just cut and run, leaving to the rest of us to fight for what we have?

I’d prefer to stay and fight.


62 posted on 04/17/2012 10:19:03 AM PDT by LibsRJerks
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To: Sequoyah101
Good point but you probably don’t need a gun in Singapore at least not the times I’ve been there. Storms usually never last do they? I wonder what wind will blow this one out and what will be left when it leaves?

And do they have gov forced racial intergration?

63 posted on 04/17/2012 10:29:54 AM PDT by MrPiper
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To: Sequoyah101
Good point but you probably don’t need a gun in Singapore at least not the times I’ve been there. Storms usually never last do they? I wonder what wind will blow this one out and what will be left when it leaves?

And do they have gov forced racial intergration?

64 posted on 04/17/2012 10:29:55 AM PDT by MrPiper
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To: Sequoyah101
Good point but you probably don’t need a gun in Singapore at least not the times I’ve been there. Storms usually never last do they? I wonder what wind will blow this one out and what will be left when it leaves?

And do they have gov forced racial intergration?

65 posted on 04/17/2012 10:29:55 AM PDT by MrPiper
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To: MrPiper

Sorry for over post, server did not respond.


66 posted on 04/17/2012 10:31:48 AM PDT by MrPiper
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To: Sequoyah101
I would go to Costa Rica, I have been there on vacation more than once and it is awesome. Plus they have one of the most stable democracies in the region. Land is surprisingly affordable and I have met many Americans that have started successful businesses down there. I am not entirely sure about their tax system though.
67 posted on 04/17/2012 10:42:28 AM PDT by 3rdcoastislander
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To: Sequoyah101
Almost all countries are going to make the process painful but if you have lots of money maybe it can be done.

I don't have the details in front of me, but if one has "lots of money", the U.S. gov't. takes a cut when one renounces their citizenship. Even on the way out, Uncle Sam doesn't miss an opportunity.

68 posted on 04/17/2012 10:59:00 AM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: ELS

So not only are we becoming socialist in regards to taxation and regulation and bureaucracy we are economic prisoners as well?

Perfect.


69 posted on 04/17/2012 11:07:43 AM PDT by Sequoyah101
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To: ELS

If you have a net worth greater than $2 million, you are subject to paying taxes as if you had sold your assets... in other words, any unrealized gains are taxed as if they had been realized. Most, probably at long-term capital gains rates.


70 posted on 04/17/2012 11:57:20 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("Of two evils, choose neither." -- Charles Spurgeon)
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To: Sequoyah101

My sweetie & I have been thinking of going ex-pat if O is re-elected. Ecuador is sounding pretty interesting...

http://www.ecuadorliving.com/handbook


71 posted on 04/17/2012 12:03:47 PM PDT by Twotone (Marte Et Clypeo)
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To: ciaocotc

“There are many ways this could turn around. Elections. Political education programs. If necessary - direct action.”

My view is that, based on the historical precedents, things are almost certain to get a lot worse for a long time before any hope of improvement exists. As far as ‘direct action,’ it seems pretty clear DHS is preparing for that and has been for a while.

Old republics that have become this rotten invariably view their own subjects as a greater threat than their foreign enemies. We are at that point now.


72 posted on 04/17/2012 12:17:49 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: Baynative

We have a good friend who has worked in Switzerland for the last 20+ years, married a Swiss woman and has 3 kids (dual American Swiss citizenship). When the U.S. wanted to tax his capital gains on his house IN Switzerland, it was the last straw. He was very sad to do it, but he did give up his US citizenship.

Paying taxes to two countries was killing him financially. I don’t blame him for his decision. I most likely would have have done likewise.

BTW, Switzerland has more construction and growth than I’ve seen in my lifetime. When I was there in 2010, their unemployment was 4%, and that was high for them. They have low tax rates and don’t belong to the EU. Now, if everything wasn’t so dang expensive there....


73 posted on 04/17/2012 12:23:00 PM PDT by BelleAl (Proud to be a member of the party of NO! NO more deficit spending and government control!)
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To: Raycpa

“False on two levels.

1. Most countries tax their citizens on world wide income.

2. The US allows an exclusion of up to 92,900 for income earned abroad. “
****

BINGO. My Dad resides now in Canada and due to the double taxation laws between the 2 countries, he doesn’t get touched. My sis works and lives in HK and the Philippines, and the IRS version of the RP is such a third-world mess I went there 2 years ago, and there was one dude on a pc in a single room while 10 foot stacks of paper surrounded him.


74 posted on 04/17/2012 12:39:46 PM PDT by max americana
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To: Just another Joe

I don’t think most of them are renouncing their US citizenship just to avoid taxes. The IRS is demanding so much information from citizens and their spouses that the spouses who are not American citizens refuse to comply saying it’s none of the IRS’s business how much money they make. Which leaves the US citizen with two choice.....Divorce which is extreme or face possible criminal charges and major fines back in the US. In certain situations it’s a no brainer.


75 posted on 04/17/2012 2:43:54 PM PDT by Beave Meister (Die Hard Cubs Fan.....if it takes forever.)
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To: MrPiper
"One UAV can kill your whole militia"

Classic revolutionary theory teaches that you scale your operations to the political and military environment.

A militia can only operate as a unit in conjunction with regular forces - unless there are no regular forces. Light infantry against indirect fire, air power etc. is suicide.

What I am talking about, properly done, would either send the rats scurrying to their holes or would bring about open civil division. I'm talking about good old fashioned, professionally analyzed for the proper psychological effect, covert ops.

There are plenty of former operators that are at the point they would consider it if things get much worse. It just needs organization, vetting and secure communications. And a ton of money.

76 posted on 04/17/2012 3:53:08 PM PDT by ciaocotc
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To: Repeat Offender
I think some crusty old white men did that back in the 1770's....they weren't very good citizens either.

Point taken. However, They, or their ancestors, moved to a new land before they renounced their citizenship, plus it wasn't just about taxes, much as it is today.

And if you think it can be done today, let me know. I may be your first immigrant.

77 posted on 04/17/2012 5:46:41 PM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

“I’ve been thinking of becoming an illegal alien myself.”

Its been though of before:

http://www.neoperspectives.com/Amnesty_From_Government.htm


78 posted on 04/17/2012 6:24:52 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: COBOL2Java
Who is John Galt?

John Galt is a cross between Ronald Regan and Ron Paul.

79 posted on 04/17/2012 7:45:23 PM PDT by politicianslie (Obama: America's first Muslim PRESIDENT, It's past time for America to take out the trash in DC.)
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To: markomalley

“The decision by the IRS to publish the names is referred to by lawyers as “name and shame.” That’s because those who renounce are seen as willing to give up their citizenship primarily for financial reasons.”

Ever wonder why its the “lawyers” that seem to think everyone should bare the unwanted and unconstitutional burden of citizenship while not even living in the USA?

The Federal Government has no right to tax anyone or anything outside theses united States Period. The very idea that they do is offensive to the very essence of sovereignty & our rights as individuals. It is basically Washington telling every “American citizen” that they are owned by the Government and therefore owe service or equivalent to the same.


80 posted on 04/17/2012 9:45:47 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: doug from upland

>Yes, taxes are outrageous and we have loads of problems. But we truly won life’s lottery by being born in this greatest nation on earth. Those renouncing that priceless gift are total jackasses.

Are they?
Let’s take the new “meme” of ‘War on Women’ as an example; remember it was sparked off by the ‘birth-control’ issues. This is utterly insulting, not only is the entirely reasonable (and will-affirming) self-control/personal-responsibility not given so much as a look, but it does a disservice to anyone lake myself who has been deployed in a war-zone (and how much more those who have seen battle?) by degenerating ‘war’ to mean “anything we don’t like.”

And that is insult to injury; because I signed up for the Constitution, not the government which, it must be admitted, cares nothing at all about the Constitution except insofar as it can be used in political sound-bites. (Else we would not see the cognitive dissonance of Prohibition and the War on Drugs where the former REQUIRED a Constitutional amendment in order to authorize regulate a substance and the latter apparently has the magical quality of generating its own authorization from itself or “Drugs are bad, m`kay” or “I’M WITH THE GOVERNMENT, DON’T QUESTION ME!”)

Now, while the insult and injury are grave indeed, let me ask: what would society-as-a-whole do if someone took a stand against this sort of stuff?
* If it was something like ignoring the ridiculous interpretation of the commerce clause and, say, growing/cultivating their own self-medication (weed, wheat/hops/beer, etc) most would side with the government/law claiming them to be wrongdoers.
* If it is resistance, say to the ‘magic’ of the IRS (which has regulations saying, basically, that any legitimate ‘loophole’ can be considered illegitimate), then we have something similar to Joe Stack (the guy who flew a small plane into the IRS building) who was vilified.
* If it was something like going to jury duty with your gun because the State Constitution says something like “No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense” or “The right of the citizen to bear arms in defense of himself and the state shall not be denied” would you call him a hero, or stupid because guns don’t belong in courthouses?


81 posted on 04/17/2012 10:02:39 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: ichabod1

>bills of attainder

Can you elaborate/give-examples for this?


82 posted on 04/17/2012 10:07:15 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: markomalley

“”The decision by the IRS to publish the names is referred to by lawyers as “name and shame.” That’s because those who renounce are seen as willing to give up their citizenship primarily for financial reasons.”

Ever wonder why its the “lawyers” that seem to think everyone should bare the unwanted and unconstitutional burden of citizenship while not even living in the USA?

The Federal Government has no right to tax anyone or anything outside theses united States Period. The very idea that they do is offensive to the very essence of sovereignty & our rights as individuals. It is basically Washington telling every “American citizen” that they are owned by the Government and therefore owe service or equivalent to the same.”

I am not willing to leave to Washington my State. I advocate for secession/revolution. But your right the prospect to reclaim our rights have been dwindling stealthily for a 100 years. More and more of our population have been been lawlessly bought by politicians using debt and the money of those increasingly few who still produce.

We are headed towards a slowdown & crash. Revolution of some-kind is inevitable. It is simply our job to take advantage of the growing symptoms and make sure that revolution is of a kind that might actually throw off the burdens of the present lawless federal government, and liberate our individuals again.


83 posted on 04/17/2012 10:32:08 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: markomalley

I would love to see an organized very large group of people suddenly denouncing citizenship, several million at the minimum.

Send the feds a message.

Seriously I begin to wonder just how good America really is compared to say Canada or Australia.

The way I see it communists have invaded every part of the government and nobody cares. The ones that were fighting have been either attacked, threatened or assassinated.


84 posted on 04/18/2012 12:11:26 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Liberals need not reply.)
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To: Sequoyah101

I’m going to be living (part time) in Thailand beginning in 2013. I know the country well, speak the language pretty well, and know the Thai people quite well. I highly recommend Thailand as at least a part time foreign residence. Thais (the vast majority anyway) are ‘Farang’ (Westerner) friendly. I am becoming certified to Teach English as a Foreign Language. There are plenty of jobs in Thailand teaching English (they understand that English is the language of Work, Commerce and Trade)... Too bad we can’t teach that concept to those who break into the USA! Oh - there are some ‘horror’ stories about living in Thailand (as there are for many countries around the world) - but a responsible, respectful and careful person need not worry too much. I find that learning the language of the country you are in (or at least making a good attempt) goes a long way in establishing good rapport. Oh - and with the $95,000 threshold before having to pay taxes - I won’t have to be doing anything but file a report (unfortunately!!!)... By the way ... a nice 2 bedroom townhouse (not super large or extra fancy) can be rented in some respectable areas Bangkok for less than $400 a month. Also - there are good websites to help one become educated about visiting and living Thailand in all manner of ways - Thaivisa.com and Teakdoor.com are two.


85 posted on 04/18/2012 7:34:34 AM PDT by ICCtheWay
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To: ICCtheWay

Oh - and with the $95,000 threshold before having to pay taxes

What are the terms and conditions for this to exemption to apply? I presume you are talking about U.S. Taxes?


86 posted on 04/18/2012 7:40:07 AM PDT by Sequoyah101
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To: devolve

Maybe I need a new CPA but she tells me the 24k is not deductible to the gift giver (you) but is not a taxable event to the receiver (anybody you want to give a gift to).

Anybody want to chime in on this?


87 posted on 04/18/2012 8:38:22 AM PDT by Sequoyah101
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To: OneWingedShark

Naw, it was jes’ rettrick and vitriol.


88 posted on 04/18/2012 8:42:34 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Cheney/Rumsfeld 2012)
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To: Sequoyah101

The $95,000 (rounded number) is U.S. Tax earnings threshold - I just read on the link to this post. I do not know details of Thai income taxes...


89 posted on 04/18/2012 9:25:21 AM PDT by ICCtheWay
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To: ichabod1

>Naw, it was jes’ rettrick and vitriol.

Damn, I was hoping for a couple good examples of Bills of Attainder.
We have the equivalent with administrative law where, for example, a man gets a restraining order put on him by a judge and *poof* he becomes a ‘prohibited person’ as far as firearms are concerned, no trial, no jury, no defense, just *poof*.


90 posted on 04/18/2012 9:40:28 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Impy; sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; fieldmarshaldj
>> I’m declaring myself a micronation. You may address me as your Majesty. Now I can go on welfare and call it foreign aid.

Do as Peter Griffith did and form the Republic of Petoria? (motto: "E. Peterbus Unum")

I have a better idea. I'm going to move to Mexico, renounce my American citizenship, and THEN enter California unlawfully (preferably with my parents driving me across the border, so I can say they just brought me with them) Once there, I will enroll for MBA program at UCLA, and demand in-state tuition rates. I'll save a ton of $$$ and according to the Perrybots here, it's not only heartless to deny me discounted tuition, it's racist as well. I also plan on saving a ton on medical bills (too bad I'm not female and can't give birth to 10 kids that would also benefit), driver's license fees, federal tax laws, and being able to vote in the presidential elections of TWO countries in 2012! Woo hoo!

One of my favorite threads on FR was the guy who wrote Senator Sarbanes and inquired how he could change his status from natural-born U.S. citizen to illegal immigrant, in order to reap the benefits in the bill Sarbanes voted for:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1682076/posts

91 posted on 04/18/2012 6:15:59 PM PDT by BillyBoy (Illegals for Perry/Gingrich 2012 : Don't be "heartless"/ Be "humane")
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To: BillyBoy

Sickening!


92 posted on 04/18/2012 6:39:57 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Twotone

I bought a small fixer-upper cruising sailboat in 2008 and moved aboard (knew what was coming). It’s now ready to go and I’m thinking along the lines of a four year cruise, if you know what I mean.

If someone were inclined to live aboard, you can live very cheaply and if you have basic handy skills there are abandoned and repossessed sailboats of liveable size going for $5k or less for the person prepared to hunt for them.

I’m not quite thinking of running away to the land of coconuts, more just being nomadic and checking out some of the places other cruisers recommend...with an option of heading for the sunset if things get worse than I imagine.


93 posted on 04/18/2012 7:12:41 PM PDT by AnTiw1
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