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Montana's Governor Schweitzer(D): "Romney’s father from ‘polygamy commune’ in Mexico"
Helena Independent Record ^ | 4.21.12 | Mike Dennison

Posted on 04/21/2012 4:44:33 PM PDT by tuckrdout

.Gov. Brian Schweitzer, talking Friday to a national news website, said Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney might shy from talking about his family’s Mexican roots because they came from a “polygamy commune” in Mexico.

Schweitzer made the remark in an interview with The Daily Beast, a news and opinion website, after being asked whether Montana might be a swing state during this year’s 2012 election.

According to The Daily Beast, Schweitzer said Montana likely would vote for Romney, but that Romney, a Mormon, might have trouble nationally because his father, George Romney, was “born on a polygamy commune in Mexico.”

Schweitzer, a Democrat, said later that he wasn’t misquoted, and that his comments had nothing to do with Romney’s faith or his church, which does not condone polygamy.

Schweitzer said he was describing the dilemma facing Romney, who is in trouble with Hispanic voters because “he took an ultra-right-wing position on immigration during the (Republican) primary.”

(Excerpt) Read more at helenair.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: inman; mexico; obama; polygamy; romney; romneygenealogy; romneymormon; schweitzer
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To: Colofornian

So then, does that make Rick Santorum a Communist?


201 posted on 04/22/2012 11:32:29 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: ansel12
Let her explain all this.

Watch your mouth girl.
202 posted on 04/22/2012 11:36:31 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: ScreamingFist
LDS has a political agenda as we know. Romney has been and is one of the leaders within their organization. The religion is simply a front as is all other counterfeit religion masqurading as a religion.

What many are unaware of is Mormons believe the office of president is uniquely connected to Mormonism in a variety of ways....

They have given it the name the White Horse Prophecy,.... (which they continually deny as all other truths recorded in their teachings which might seem offensive to some or create issues for them)... it basically states, “that the U.S. Constitution will be hanging by a thread” and a church elder from Zion will ride metaphorically on a white horse to save it.... This prophecy is interpreted 'by the majority' as a Mormon president saving the country.

Furthermore..they believe at this time a terrible revolution will take place in America, the land will be left without a Supreme Government. .. and that the Mormon religion would save America at this time.

But it is insulting to find a statement from the LDS Church on its Newsroom blogsite, when in fact their recorded history says otherwise time and again, the following:

"The so-called 'White Horse Prophecy' is based on accounts that have not been substantiated by historical research and is not embraced as Church doctrine" (January 6, 2010)

http://newsroom.lds.org/blog/church-statement-on-white-horse-prophecy-and-political-neutrality

What this means to voters who are in the dark about LDS, their false teachings and anti-Christian beliefs, remains to be seen...I suspect most won't care...Christianity in our nation has been so watered down and infiltrated by false teachings and practices that the centrality of Jesus Christ has all but disappeared and we see simply lip service today....an easy target for the enemy of mens souls.

203 posted on 04/22/2012 11:39:37 AM PDT by caww
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To: Colofornian
If Romney can't do simple math...like that Brigham Young had about 55 wives & 57 children to average about ONE child-per-Mom/wife...

Guess what? His wives also had other children from other men. Not so simple is it?
204 posted on 04/22/2012 11:41:28 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: ansel12

I would suspect none of these men have served in the Military...generally speaking Mormons don’t...a few here and there but over all they do not serve.


205 posted on 04/22/2012 11:44:07 AM PDT by caww
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To: svcw
Sorry honey George Romney’s parents were polygamists. Which makes Romney’s grandparents polygamists.

Sorry honey, you're wrong.
206 posted on 04/22/2012 11:45:31 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: svcw

He denies that is his family? When was that?


207 posted on 04/22/2012 11:47:50 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: This I Wonder32460
Mormonism is not the enemy, it’s not something to promote either, yet Mormon’s are not the enemy no more then Catholics are the enemy. The enemy is socialism, communism and Islamism, which are ideologies that are determined to enslave the majority for the benefit of the few who hold the power.

Your ignorance of religions and ideologies is showing.

208 posted on 04/22/2012 11:49:39 AM PDT by caww
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To: Colofornian

Good point — I guess if a guy has five wives and each has ten kids, then he might think that 50 was too much. One wife and ten kids, he could handle.


209 posted on 04/22/2012 11:55:00 AM PDT by heye2monn
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To: This I Wonder32460
"When was the last time Mormon’s beheaded someone not being Mormon? When was the last time Mormon’s murdered their daughter or sister because she fell in love with a non-Mormon? When was the last time that Mormon’s declared War on the World and let it be known they were determined to enslave the rest of the population and create a world wide caliphate?"

Straw man argument. There are no Presidential candidates that have beheaded anyone, murdered their daughter or declared war on the world. None.

Much better question you should be asking:

When was the last time a Mormon seized a government office and used it to further the killing of tens of thousands of innocent babies (many torn limb from limb, including the heads - all were someone's daughters or sons) - subsidized by the taxpayers - and then undermined the sacred institution of marriage by willfully appointing liberal, gay-favoring, judges, and followed that up by personally approving hundreds of gay marriages, and then followed it up by attacking the liberty of citizens using coercive government mandates?

Gee, I can only think of one time and one Mormon who did this... and I'm guessing you want to pull the lever to put him in office?
210 posted on 04/22/2012 11:58:37 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("Of two evils, choose neither." -- Charles Spurgeon)
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To: caww
...generally speaking Mormons don’t...a few here and there but over all they do not serve.

Where did you get that information from?
211 posted on 04/22/2012 11:59:31 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Colofornian

and why are you pinging me to this comment?


212 posted on 04/22/2012 12:06:13 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Colofornian; ansel12
Well I have...because my Lds ancestors included a 19th century polygamist

Well that must make you a polygamist!
213 posted on 04/22/2012 12:08:14 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Colofornian
Romney is proud of his forefathers and what they did...

Yes, they fought in the Revolutionary War. That is certainly something to be proud of! but I'm still not voting for him.
214 posted on 04/22/2012 12:12:38 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Brown Deer

Searching, reading various sites and articles, both mormon and otherwise. You might investigate it it yourself as well. ..and it’s pretty much known the Mormon youth go directly to the mission filed...bypassing enlistment altogether.


215 posted on 04/22/2012 12:12:45 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Then please feel free to post the numbers from each branch of the military along with your source.


216 posted on 04/22/2012 12:15:41 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
When was the last time a Mormon seized a government office and used it to further the killing of tens of thousands of innocent babies (many torn limb from limb, including the heads - all were someone's daughters or sons) - subsidized by the taxpayers - and then undermined the sacred institution of marriage by willfully appointing liberal, gay-favoring, judges, and followed that up by personally approving hundreds of gay marriages, and then followed it up by attacking the liberty of citizens using coercive government mandates?<[> ...and laying claim to a Primary win without the required delegates, bypassing voters and the required means of attaining this in order to prevent voters from voting.

Romney is despicable!!!

217 posted on 04/22/2012 12:16:46 PM PDT by caww
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To: ansel12
Both Romney's were, and in Mitt's case, are, powerful leaders in this cult

By what definition do you define "cult"

a)Not Jewish but Christian
b)Not Orthodox Church or above but Roman Catholic Church
c)Not Roman Catholic Church or above but Anglican Church
d)Not Anglican Church or above but Protestant
e)Not Just Protestant or above but: Lutheran, Calvinist, Presbyterian, Anabaptist.
f)Not Any of the above but Baptist, Methodists, Adventists, Pentecostists, Pietists, Puritans etc.
h)Not Any of the above only Mormons

Because all the above plus alot more were considered a "cult" and weird, if not heretical by the preceding faith(s) they were once a part of but broke away from because of some schism within Christianity.

So choice your words carefully because every stone you throw at somebody's else's window, countless more will be thrown at yours...
218 posted on 04/22/2012 12:35:14 PM PDT by RedMonqey (Men who will not suffer to self govern, will suffer under the governance of lesser men.)
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To: Brown Deer
Well that must make you a polygamist!

:)

(How do you know I'm not?) :)

Hey...all I'd have to do is...
...become a Mormon...
...talk my would-be Lds bishop into a temple recommend...
...take two spouses in the Mormon temple...
...with a death separating the two...
...and viola!...
...CURRENT Mormon teaching sayz I'd be an ETERNAL Mormon POLYGAMIST!!!
Not exactly 70 virgins forever...but hey...Current Mormons don't have to stop at two such spouses, either...as long as they take them consecutively -- sequentially outliving spouses -- they could "rack up" quite a harem in the celestial Mormon heaven.

(And Mormons coyly deny they teach or practice polygamy any more...what a crock that people buy their lies & deceptions...and if those aren't lies & deceptions...then that proves they don't buy their own "lines" from their "prophets" "apostles" and general authorities...which means the whole thing should collapse on its own weight)

Beyond that, I think I've distanced myself a bit more from my polygamist ancestor by saying it wasn't a moral thing to do...went against Gen. 2:24; Matt: 19:6; Deut. 17:17...Whereas the ONLY thing I've found that Romney has said on the subject attempted to justify it as building a family in the desert.

The OTHER HUGE difference is that Mormons have an "afterlife" structure for supposed "current" and alleged "future" polygamy, whereas I have no actual plans for either. Therefore Romney needs to answer to CURRENT Mormon policy on "eternal celestial polygamy" and McConkie's Mormon apostolic "prophesy" that the Mormons would return to earthly polygamy.

Does he believe it? If Ann Romney died [Ann has been diagnosed with MS for about 15 years], and he took another wife in the Mormon temple ... say during his would-be POTUS years or even post-POTUS years, does Romney believe that "teaching the nation" -- particularly the younger generations -- that "eternal polygamy" is A-OK???

219 posted on 04/22/2012 12:39:53 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Moutm when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: ansel12
In their 180 years of devotion to Mormonism, no Romney man has ever served the United States in uniform.

So an Quaker is illegitimate candidate for president as well?
220 posted on 04/22/2012 12:41:46 PM PDT by RedMonqey (Men who will not suffer to self govern, will suffer under the governance of lesser men.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion; This I Wonder32460
"When was the last time Mormon’s beheaded someone not being Mormon? When was the last time Mormon’s murdered their daughter or sister because she fell in love with a non-Mormon? When was the last time that Mormon’s declared War on the World and let it be known they were determined to enslave the rest of the population and create a world wide caliphate?" [This I Wonder 32460]

Straw man argument. There are no Presidential candidates that have beheaded anyone, murdered their daughter or declared war on the world. None. Much better question you should be asking: When was the last time a Mormon seized a government office and used it to further the killing of tens of thousands of innocent babies (many torn limb from limb, including the heads - all were someone's daughters or sons) - subsidized by the taxpayers - and then undermined the sacred institution of marriage by willfully appointing liberal, gay-favoring, judges, and followed that up by personally approving hundreds of gay marriages, and then followed it up by attacking the liberty of citizens using coercive government mandates? Gee, I can only think of one time and one Mormon who did this... and I'm guessing you want to pull the lever to put him in office? [AMPU}

Fantastic response!

PLACEMARK for future links...as This I Wonder's comment is a popular myth stated DOZENS of times every year on FR.

221 posted on 04/22/2012 12:43:24 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Moutm when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Colofornian
...CURRENT Mormon teaching sayz I'd be an ETERNAL Mormon POLYGAMIST!!!

In your wet dreams!

Current Mormons don't have to stop at two such spouses, either...as long as they take them consecutively -- sequentially outliving spouses

So can any other religion or faith, but that doesn't make them polygamists.
222 posted on 04/22/2012 12:50:57 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: RedMonqey; ansel12
So choice your words carefully because every stone you throw at somebody's else's window, countless more will be thrown at yours...

If that's the case, you'll be there admonishing those posters as well with a similar post to what you just told Ansel12, right?

Because if Ansel12 gets your lecture for what he said, then these other stone-throwers and would-be stone-throwers also need such a lecture, right?

So we can count on you in this thread to be...
...consistent...
...not dual-faced...
...and not hypocritical...
...in determining which stone-throwers you're going to lecture...
...Right?

223 posted on 04/22/2012 12:55:10 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Moutm when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Brown Deer
So can any other religion or faith, but that doesn't make them polygamists.

Are you that ignorant on comparing Mormonism to other religions? How many other religions say "marriage is forever?" (Beyond the grave)

224 posted on 04/22/2012 12:56:51 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Moutm when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Brown Deer
Yes, they fought in the Revolutionary War. That is certainly something to be proud of! but I'm still not voting for him.

Sorry. Nice try on your overstretch.

If Romney had such an ancestor, they weren't Mormon. They might have been the father of a Mormon, but there no American Mormons til the 1830s. And the Pratt brothers, Orson & Parley, were the first "Mormons" in Romney's ancestry. (They are BOTH Mitt's ancestors because of internal inter-family marriages...it's rare to have two brothers as somebody's direct ancestry)

And if Romney had such an ancestor, that doesn't fit with the quote I gave...where Romney twice references "faith" and once the "faith of his fathers."

The "faith" of any Romney ancestors (in pre-Mormon times) are "officially" deemed as "apostate." That would hardly be a matter of "pride" since Romney was discussing "faith" -- not uniform-wearing in a war.

How do we know Mormon diss all pre-1820s "Christian" (& other) faiths? See chart below:

Charting Mormon Foundational Intolerance: Smithesque Slander of the Christian Church

MEMO: ‘Wake-up call’ to allies of Mormon founder Joseph Smith and those operating as current disciples of Smith: Those who 'preach' against intolerance need to take note of Mormonism's intolerant roots

Title: A Primer of How Lds founder Joseph Smith Launched His Campaign of Open Bigotry vs. Worldwide Christianity, Engaging in Scorched-Earth Religious Politics

Mitt Romney, Dec, 2007, speaking @ the George Bush Presidential Library: "I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers – I will be true to them and to my beliefs."

Snapshot of Joseph Smith’s Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects

Mormon Source

[Note: Most of these are Mormon ‘scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain]
“...which of all the sects was right… must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG… those professors were ALL CORRUPT…” Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price
...“which of all the sects was right…ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight…they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN…” Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price
Mormon church the only ‘Christ-sanctioned’ church on earth: “…the foundation of this [Mormon] church…the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth [Obvious ‘scorched earth’ implication: All other churches are false and dead] Lds “scripture” Doctrines & Covenants 1:30
Direct question asked of Joseph Smith: 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?" Answer from Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119 [Not “scripture” – but still publicly spoken by the Mormon ‘living prophet’ and published by a later Mormon ‘living prophet,’ Joseph Fielding Smith – via a publisher owned by the Mormon church – Deseret News Press, 1938]
“In 1952…the first official proselyting plan was sent to missionaries throughout the world…It included seven missionary discussions that emphasized…[four topics, one of them being]…THE APOSTASY and Restoration…” [This makes it almost 60 years that Mormon church missionaries, now numbering 52,000, have formally emphasized in its training & door to door saturation a priority in bashing the worldwide Christian church as “apostates” (100% AWOL)] Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996

225 posted on 04/22/2012 1:11:59 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Moutm when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: caww; This I Wonder32460
Your ignorance of religions and ideologies is showing.

Anti-Catholic bigotry kept Catholics out of the Oval office because many Protestants believed church doctrine stated devote Catholics owe their loyality and must take orders from the pope.

There is paper thin difference in anti-Mormonism and Anti-Catholicism. We survived a Catholic presidency and if it comes to it, I suspect we will survive a Mormon one as well.
226 posted on 04/22/2012 1:24:23 PM PDT by RedMonqey (Men who will not suffer to self govern, will suffer under the governance of lesser men.)
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To: svcw

Do not call me “honey”.


227 posted on 04/22/2012 1:26:51 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Never borrow batteries out of your smoke alarm!)
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To: Colofornian
Direct question asked of Joseph Smith: 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?" Answer from Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness."

One could walk into any mainline Baptist church on any given Sunday and hear the same message.

Each church believes their message is the one true intrpretation else their faith is a mockery.

DuH!!!
228 posted on 04/22/2012 1:31:00 PM PDT by RedMonqey (Men who will not suffer to self govern, will suffer under the governance of lesser men.)
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To: RedMonqey
One could walk into any mainline Baptist church on any given Sunday and hear the same message.

(NO they can't...stop making these up...or quote a source)

Each church believes their message is the one true intrpretation else their faith is a mockery.

Sorry...best you can come up with here is some Christian leader giving his opinion...

With Mormon leaders, they don't claim to be giving "opinions." They claim to speak forth DIRECT REVELATION on behalf of God.

229 posted on 04/22/2012 1:34:50 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Moutm when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Colofornian
If that's the case, you'll be there admonishing those posters as well with a similar post to what you just told Ansel12, right?

I've only got two eyes and two hands. Show me "those posters" that are angrily attacking another faith as an "cult" just because he finds fault with it and I will.

Mormom doctrine maybe not to my liking and I may find it's biblical foundations questionable but as long as it doesn't incite violence upon another I see no reason to admonish someone fot it nor a reason to disqualify a person for office in the United States.

no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

See, I'm a follower of the US Constitution....
230 posted on 04/22/2012 1:48:32 PM PDT by RedMonqey (Men who will not suffer to self govern, will suffer under the governance of lesser men.)
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To: RedMonqey; Springfield Reformer; CommerceComet
no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. See, I'm a follower of the US Constitution....

Here's the "short answer" to this: This applies to candidates & government, not voters.

My shorter version answer is here: Article 6 doesn't apply to voters

In that April thread, both CommerceComet and SpringfieldReformer made excellent additional points for you to consider here and here.

Next post, I'll give you a longer version to the first link above.

231 posted on 04/22/2012 2:14:07 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Moutm when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: RedMonqey
no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. See, I'm a follower of the US Constitution....

As promised last post, here's the LONGER version (than the link @ my previous post):

CONCERN #1:

From an Lds "apostle" (Dallin Oaks) based news release: The framers of our constitution included a provision that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States” (Article VI). That constitutional principle forbids a religious test as a legal requirement... Response 1: Mr. Oaks at first misconstrues candidacy eligibility (all the constitution says is that an eligible candidate cannot be kept from running on religious test grounds) vs. Mr. Oaks suggesting that we impose upon the voting process itself; however, he then realizes how ludicrous that sounds and concedes reality: "...but it of course leaves citizens free to cast their votes on the basis of any preference they choose."

Point 1- RELIGION: Religion IS NOT a qualification or disqualification for public office; but it's certainly one quality of voter discernment among many others...namely, voting record, present position statements & rampant inconsistency of past position statements, social issues' stances, character, viability, scandal-free past, etc. Article VI, section 3 of the Constitution is aimed at the candidate (must be of a certain age and must have resided in our country for a certain number of years) and the government so that religion does not become a disqualification to keep somebody otherwise eligible for running for public office. Article VI, section 3, is not aimed at the voter. Otherwise, voters would have to 100% disregard character, beliefs, other-dimensionly commitments, and spiritual discernment in weighing candidates.

POINT 2 - ELIGIBILITY: Newsflash!! Every person on the ballot, & even most write-in candidates, have proper "qualifications" to not be excluded from office consideration (based upon religious grounds). Of course, millions of us have the "qualifications" to be considered a potential POTUS & shouldn't be excluded outright from a ballot because of the religion we hold! Nobody has a "Religious Ineligibility" tattoo on their forehead!

POINT 3- BOTTOM LINE: Mr. Oaks confuses "qualifications" (language within the Constitution) with "qualities." (language that’s NOT in the Constitution). I focus on what voters base their votes on in the "real world": Qualities

Otherwise, Article VI says absolutely nothing...nada...zero...about how voters must weigh--or not weigh--the "qualities" of a candidate...So, nowhere does Article VI say that voters MUST 100% disregard character, beliefs, other-dimensionly commitments, and spiritual discernment in weighing candidates!

"Qualifications" have to do with what gets a man on a ballot. "Qualities" has to do with who gets elected.

CONCERN #2:

From the news release: ...of course leaves citizens free to cast their votes on the basis of any preference they choose. But wise religious leaders and members will never advocate religious tests for public office...If a candidate is seen to be rejected at the ballot box primarily because of religious belief or affiliation, the precious free exercise of religion is weakened at its foundation...

Response 2: "Weigh all their ways," Mr. Oaks seems to say, but don't advocate that candidates steer clear of anything religiously objectionable, which I might add, could potentially include Satanism, religious terrorism, or candidates who embrace obtaining a graduate degree in divinity -- as in becoming a god himself!!! I'm sorry, but just because I might claim to worship tulips in my backyard while running for office -- and it doesn't sit well with my voting neighbor who sees such worship -- doesn't "weaken" "the precious free exercise of religion...at its foundation" when that neighbor elects to vote against me primarily on that basis. In fact, it strengthens it. Why? Because "the free exercise of religion" isn't a one-way street applicable only to candidates! (It also applies to voters!). And there's ALWAYS more voters than candidates!

Besides, what exactly is wrong with the voter standard that I'm not going to vote for somebody -- ANYBODY -- Democrat, Republican, independent, Green, populist, etc. who thinks they are a god in embryo or part of the future gods of Kolob coalition? Believe me, if Hillary stood up in 2010, announced she was running for president based on her experience as a "god," I don't think we'd see standing ovations from the Democrats based upon some wrestled-out-of-context "freedom of religious expression" notion.

POINT 4 - NOTE THE LDS APOSTLE'S ATTEMPT TO TEFLON-PROOF UNTENABLE OTHER-WORLDLY COMMITMENTS : All citizens who are not felons have the right to aspire to any office regardless of any faith, religious adherence or other-worldly commitment. But why does this "apostle" come and wag a finger at voters, saying, "Hey, you, yeah, you, Mr. or Mrs. Individual Voter...if you dare consider the Hare Krishna aspect of this candidate...the Moonie ties of this candidate...the Satanic ties of this candidate...the Wiccan beliefs & practices of this candidate...then we'll accuse you of weakening the very foundation of the constitution??? In other words, 'Vote for the Hare Krishna dude or else!!!' By this standard, we couldn't even take into consideration a candidate's expectation of 72 virgins awaiting them post-'martyrdom' death as a glimpse of their broader religious perspectives.

CONCERN #3:

From the News Release: If a candidate is seen to be rejected at the ballot box primarily because of religious belief or affiliation, the precious free exercise of religion is weakened at its foundation, especially when this reason for rejection has been advocated by other religionists.

Response 3: Say what? You mean religionists who might prefer having a POTUS in the White House who actually knows the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in order to call on that Living God during a Jack Bauer-like crisis is NEVER to be preferred over voting for an atheist candidate on faith grounds??? (Otherwise, that "weakens the religious foundation" of our country? How does that make any sense?)

POINT #5 - APOSTLE OAKS TURNS ON ITS HEAD WHO REJECTED WHOM!

Were we to discuss candidates representing a broad range of alternative religions, I would guestimate that 60-80% of them do not necessarily go out of their way to slam Christianity or badly slander the spiritual reputation of Christian adherents for chunks of 170 years at a time. That can't be said about true-believing LDS candidates (in distinction from Jack Mormon candidates).

Simply put, the true-believing Mormon candidate approaches us historic Christians is saying:
"You are an apostate; I am a restorationist built upon the complete ashes of your faith. Your creeds--all of them--are an 'abomination' before God. Your professing believers are 'corrupt.' Can I count on your vote then?" [See below for chapter & verse]

Conclusion: When a candidate mislabels 75% of his voting base's primary faith tenets and claims & reduces them to mere "apostate" status--Note that LDS "Scripture" specifically labels the entire Christian church as "apostate" and Note that 75% of people claim to be "Christians" in the more mainline/Protestant/Catholic sense--& frankly, this % is higher in the Republican party)...
...Then...
...he not only shows open disdain for his voting base, but betrays his ability to inspire confidence in his ability to accurately define a major world religion. If he cannot accurately define a major world religion, what confidence does he inspire re: his ability to handle national security issues, terrorist issues, & negotiation issues pertaining to another world religion like Islam?

Specific citation to above: Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History, verses 18-19: I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right — and which I should join. I was answered that I must join NONE of them, for they were ALL wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that ALL their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were ALL corrupt... " LDS cannot just take or leave for this is authoritative "Scripture"; this verse originated as the supposed description of the very foundation of the Lds church--the First Vision of Joseph Smith. They claim that this is their "god's" judgment of Christians and their church bodies; they have since translated this into over 100 languages and circulated this nonsense world-wide with millions of copies.

CONCERN #4:

From the news release: The religion of a candidate should not be an issue in a political campaign.

Response 4: Numerous reasons exist as to why the religious beliefs of a candidate ARE relevant. Before outlining them, let's see if Mr. Oaks applies this same standard to his own people:

Q #1 for Mr. Oaks:
Mitt Romney delivered a "Faith in America" speech in Dec 07 that discussed his Mormon faith & some of its perculiarities in early December. Q: If this was so important to not address his religion as a political campaign issue, as Mr. Oaks claims, why couldn't Romney leave "religion out of" his political talks?

Q #2 for Mr. Oaks:
If "the religion of a candidate should not be an issue in a political campaign," then somebody forgot to tell Utah and Western State Mormon voters! Why then did Utah residents give 91% of their Republican $ to Romney in 2007? Why did Utah, AZ, Nevada, and Wyoming Mormon voters pile on FOR Romney in the primaries by margins of 93-7% and 95-5%? Why hasn't Mr. Oaks addressed his Mormon faithful, telling these voters to stop making a candidate's religion an issue in a political campaign by voting according to such identity politics?

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not calling these Utah residents "bigoted" or "intolerant" of non-Mormon candidates. It's a free Republic so Utah/Mormon citizens should support who they want to support. My question is not so much geared at Utah residents as it is statements like these from leaders who fail to consider the inconsistent application of their claims. I mean, Mr. Oaks implies those who think and act counter to his claims are "anti-religous freedom" simply because some voters take other-worldly commitments into voter consideration. Well, if that's the case, then how do Utah voters, and Western-state Mormon voters escape Mr. Oaks' implied labels?

Additional Points of Considerations:

POINT 6 - WE MUST WEIGH A CANDIDATE'S LEVEL OF VULNERABILITY TO DECEPTION - FOR THAT TRANSCENDS RELIGIOUS CONSIDERATIONS: We all have blinders to truth. Nobody has a monopoly on it. (But I would say the Bible has the best snapshot of God & humanity and the interaction between the two). Deception exists in the world, and when compared to trustworthy sources of truth (the Bible), deception exists as a continuum. If we agreed that a candidate belongs to the most deceptive cult in the world, then certainly that candidate's vulnerability to deception in the most important area of his life--his faith--serves as an indicator that he/she might be more easily deceived in public policy issues. "Vulnerability to deception" belongs on a character checklist! Even one 2007 poll indicated that 54% of Americans would not vote for an atheist.

POINT 7 : Other-worldly commitments (faith) is a character issue! There's no way around this realization! To try to extract such other-worldly commitments from character is simply not possible. Time & time again folks try to hermetically seal "faith" & "religion" away from the public square as if folks checked their faith at the door or as if folks were neatly cut-up pie pieces. (Just try telling any voter that he should never weigh "character" into his/her voting-decision considerations).

POINT 8 - Mr. Oaks & the Lds Church WINDS UP CASTIGATING THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS IN THE PROCESS: The fact is, 92% of Evangelicals, 78% of Republicans, 62% of Americans, and 55% of Democrats do take into consideration the faith & beliefs of a candidate according to a late 2006 Rasmussen Reports poll. [We all know now apparently what this Lds "apostle" thinks of 92% of Evangelicals; 78% of Republicans and 62% of Americans!!!)

As already mentioned, if folks were supposed to ignore religion, why did Utah go 9-to-1 Mitt? (Why did Mr. Oaks missed apparent "politicalization" of the Constitution?)

The above-mentioned 2006 Rasmussen poll can be found Election2008:43%WouldNeverVoteforMormonCandidate.

Excerpt from that thread: The Rasmussen Reports survey found that 35% say that a candidate's faith and religious beliefs are very important in their voting decision. Another 27% say faith and religious beliefs are somewhat important. Ninety-two percent (92%) of Evangelical Christian voters consider a candidate's faith and beliefs important. On the partisan front, 78% of Republicans say that a candidate's faith is an important consideration, a view shared by 55% of Democrats. However, there is also a significant divide on this topic within the Democratic Party. Among minority Democrats, 71% consider faith and religious beliefs an important consideration for voting. Just 44% of white Democrats agree.

Additional Questions for this Lds 'apostle':
Is Oaks blasting away at 62% of Americans who say that a candidate’s faith is very or somewhat important as a consideration?
Is Oaks blasting away at the 92% of Evangelical Christians who say they consider a candidate’s faith and beliefs an important consideration?
Is Oaks blasting away at the 78% of Republicans who say that a candidate’s faith & beliefs are an important consideration?
Is Oaks blasting away at the 55% of Democrats who say that a candidate’s faith & beliefs are an important consideration?

232 posted on 04/22/2012 2:16:18 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Moutm when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: RedMonqey
Show me "those posters" that are angrily attacking another faith as an "cult" just because he finds fault with it and I will.

Not angry.

Do you always claim to read minds?

I've only got two eyes and two hands. Show me...

OK, before you engage in whatever "survey" you want of Baptist churches & their leaders in whatever mythical content you want to stick into their mouth as straw men -- why don't you just tell us why you won't deal with the content in this chart -- which your two eyes can see?

And why do you seem to ignore the "fault" the Lds church finds with Christianity?

Charting Mormon Foundational Intolerance: Smithesque Slander of the Christian Church

MEMO: ‘Wake-up call’ to allies of Mormon founder Joseph Smith and those operating as current disciples of Smith: Those who 'preach' against intolerance need to take note of Mormonism's intolerant roots

Title: A Primer of How Lds founder Joseph Smith Launched His Campaign of Open Bigotry vs. Worldwide Christianity, Engaging in Scorched-Earth Religious Politics

Mitt Romney, Dec, 2007, speaking @ the George Bush Presidential Library: "I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers – I will be true to them and to my beliefs."

Snapshot of Joseph Smith’s Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects

Mormon Source

[Note: Most of these are Mormon ‘scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain]
“...which of all the sects was right… must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG… those professors were ALL CORRUPT…” Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price
...“which of all the sects was right…ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight…they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN…” Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price
Mormon church the only ‘Christ-sanctioned’ church on earth: “…the foundation of this [Mormon] church…the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth [Obvious ‘scorched earth’ implication: All other churches are false and dead] Lds “scripture” Doctrines & Covenants 1:30
Direct question asked of Joseph Smith: 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?" Answer from Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119 [Not “scripture” – but still publicly spoken by the Mormon ‘living prophet’ and published by a later Mormon ‘living prophet,’ Joseph Fielding Smith – via a publisher owned by the Mormon church – Deseret News Press, 1938]
“In 1952…the first official proselyting plan was sent to missionaries throughout the world…It included seven missionary discussions that emphasized…[four topics, one of them being]…THE APOSTASY and Restoration…” [This makes it almost 60 years that Mormon church missionaries, now numbering 55,000, have formally emphasized in its training & door to door saturation a priority in bashing the worldwide Christian church as “apostates” (100% AWOL)] Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996

233 posted on 04/22/2012 2:22:09 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Moutm when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Colofornian
(NO they can't...stop making these up...or quote a source)

You've never heard a preacher say' "everyone who isn't "washed in the blood of "The Lamb"(Jesus)will be condemned to everlasting hell fire"?

That means unless you accept Jesus as your Lord and and Savior, everyone else will not go to heaven. Jews, Mormons, Catholics, Buddhists etc.

No exceptions. And every good Baptist believes it truly in his/her heart.
234 posted on 04/22/2012 2:53:25 PM PDT by RedMonqey (Men who will not suffer to self govern, will suffer under the governance of lesser men.)
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To: ansel12

As much as I know Romney and his family have never taken on the sacrifice of physically defending the USA even though the family certainly had the capability of such support. I believe(prejudiced as a WWII vet who lost an only brother in the battle for Okinawa) that no military service without cause indicates low esteem for the Founders Nation. I don’t admire the Bush’s politics but they paid their patriotic dues. Obama is an abysmal opposite and I can’t understand any ex-military person or present day military person sucking up to this imposter.


235 posted on 04/22/2012 2:55:11 PM PDT by noinfringers2
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To: Colofornian
Sorry. Nice try on your overstretch.

No overstretch MORON! You wrote: "Romney is proud of his forefathers and what they did..." and the fact is that his ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War. Yes, that is a fact whether you like it or not.

If Romney had such an ancestor, they weren't Mormon.

So what? They are still his ancestors, whether you like or not.

(They are BOTH Mitt's ancestors because of internal inter-family marriages...it's rare to have two brothers as somebody's direct ancestry)

That's total nonsense! Most people have siblings in their direct ancestry.

AND STOP PREACHING YOUR MORMON FAITH TO ME. I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT WHAT YOU BELIEVE!
236 posted on 04/22/2012 3:05:45 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Colofornian
And why do you seem to ignore the "fault" the Lds church finds with Christianity?



post# 230 "Mormon doctrine maybe not to my liking and I may find it's biblical foundations questionable"..

Why don't you take the time to read my posts before you post "cut and paste" your pre-manufactured reply to them?



And no, I'm not going to debate Mormon theology. The problems I find with Romney is his filp flopping on political issues, like gun control, abortion and taxes to site a few. Not whether his "magic underwear' are "boxer or briefs" or whether his great-great-grand pappy was in the military.

Go find someone else to be your Mormon huckleberry.
237 posted on 04/22/2012 3:22:41 PM PDT by RedMonqey (Men who will not suffer to self govern, will suffer under the governance of lesser men.)
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To: Brown Deer

Romney’s family could not have fought in the Revolutionary War as mormons, there where no momorns until 1830.


238 posted on 04/22/2012 4:17:44 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw
Romney’s family could not have fought in the Revolutionary War as mormons, there where no momorns until 1830.

So, what's your point?
239 posted on 04/22/2012 4:23:59 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Brown Deer

Are you even reading what you are writing?


240 posted on 04/22/2012 4:26:24 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: RedMonqey

Romney is who he is because of his mormonism, not in spite of it. If you do not understand mormonism you will not understand Romney.


241 posted on 04/22/2012 4:28:19 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

You wrote it, not me. So what’s your point?


242 posted on 04/22/2012 4:29:56 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: svcw
Romney is who he is because of his mormonism, not in spite of it.

So Mormomism made him a flip-flopper? If so, did being a Southern Baptist made Clinton, Carter and Al Gore flip-flopper as well?
243 posted on 04/22/2012 4:54:39 PM PDT by RedMonqey (Men who will not suffer to self govern, will suffer under the governance of lesser men.)
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To: RedMonqey

I too am a follower of the United States Constitution. As such I defend Mitt Romney’s right to be on any ballot he chooses and will oppose any attempts to remove hm based on religion or any other standard beside citizenship and age.

I am sure all here will agree with that standard.

As a follower of the United States Constitution I will practice my right to vote for a candidate by any standard I see fit including religion.

Nice attempt at the wrong argument...


244 posted on 04/22/2012 5:02:41 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ansel12
Romney's father was indeed born into an anti-American, polygamy colony in Mexico, that was the reference, and it is true.

It is also quite irrelevant.

Unless, of course, it is truly intended as a low blow...

245 posted on 04/22/2012 5:19:22 PM PDT by AmericanExceptionalist (Democrats believe in discussing the full spectrum of ideas, all the way from far left to center-left)
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To: RedMonqey

Romney is a liberal because of his mormonism, try and keep up.


246 posted on 04/22/2012 5:32:44 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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The point lost on some in this thread is serious — willfully charge ancestral sins upon the present, and you wholly empower the Libtard assertion that somehow white people today owe something to the Amish for slavery repealed 150 years ago (by a Republican!).


247 posted on 04/22/2012 5:34:29 PM PDT by StAnDeliver (=)
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To: Colofornian
(No, [polygamy] wasn't [banned by the LDS Church in the late eighteenth century]...

Mormons, themselves, are probably the best arbiter of this matter.

Here is a bit from a Mormon website, as regarding the matter at hand: "President Gordon B. Hinckley, prior president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made the following statement in 1998 about the Church's position on plural marriage:

"'This Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church.... If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church.'"

Here is the link: http://mormon.org/faq/practice-of-polygamy/

1910-early 1960s: Mormon leaders did not break up most of the polygamous arrangements that were already intact in 1890 & thereafter.

Why should it have been the responsibility of "Mormon leaders" to "break up" civil arrangements?

1960s: (a) Polygamy still psychologically accepted by Lds: Hardy cites a poll taken of mainstream Mormons: 40% say they would engage in polygamy if told to by their "prophet."

According to my calculations, that would mean that 60 percent would not do so.

If one presidential candidate were to receive fully 60 percent of the popular vote, would you not consider that pretty decisive?

Mormons believe there are Lds men alive now will become eternal polygamists...

To declare, boldly, that "Mormons believe" this or that, is to paint with much too broad of a brush, in my opinion.

It is a bit like one's declaring that "scientists believe in the doctrine of global warming," as if this were universally accepted among all scientists...

248 posted on 04/22/2012 5:34:36 PM PDT by AmericanExceptionalist (Democrats believe in discussing the full spectrum of ideas, all the way from far left to center-left)
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To: RedMonqey

Clinton, Carter and Gore all had reasons for changing their minds, those are not flip flops, Romney is a flipping liar.
You want to pimp him, be my guest, just stop lying about it.


249 posted on 04/22/2012 5:36:00 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

still waiting...


250 posted on 04/22/2012 5:38:14 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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