Skip to comments.Feds eye retirement-fund tax to cut $16 trillion-plus deficit (Obama's war on savers)
Posted on 04/22/2012 4:44:53 AM PDT by jimbo123
Uncle Sam, in a desperate attempt to fix its $16 trillion-plus deficit, is leering over Americans retirement nest egg as its new bailout fund.
Capitol Hill politicians are assessing tax changes that could let the Internal Revenue Service lay claim to a portion of the $18 trillion sitting in 401(k) accounts and other tax breaks used by middle-class workers, including cutting the mortgage tax deduction.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
No, we get played like illiterate third world idiots get played by the globe trotters.
You didn't answer my question - have you given up driving gasoline-powered vehicles?
BTW, I almost never drive any more, so I am actually doing something to reduce gasoline demand. So don't lecture me unless you are doing the same.
So, tell us what you are doing to reduce or eliminate your gasoline usage - which drives the need to explore for more oil. Also, do you use electricity? Most of that comes from fossil fuels as well. Tell us your plan for eliminating most of your power consumption that is created by such.
We knew years ago the 401K was a sham, and only a matter of time until controlling, bloated corrupt government would gang rape those accounts too.
Tell “us” what you are going to do about globalists shaking down this country and our Treasury.
You are the one complaining about the evil oil companies. So tell us what you are doing to reduce your personal consumption of their production. That is the only way to reduce the need to explore for more.
I've included yours too!
Iran is going to take over the world.
The refineries need maintenance
The speculators are doing it
We're running out of oil
We have plenty
Americans are driving less, so we need to raise prices
The Chinese have millions of mopeds to fuel
There is a leak in a pipe in Moose Jaw Alaska
A rodent chewed through a line at the main pump station in Texas.
Demand is down but we are producing more however, our refineries have been and are being shut down
Prices will go to 6.75, but 3 days before the election, Obama will lower prices to 1.40 to ensure reelection
A school of endangered blowfish have been sucked into a pipe, and it takes time to get them out.
Iran has nukes
Unstable markets worldwide.
A big refinery fire
A small refinery fire
A refinery fire could possibly happen
New gas additives are being developed to make Americans even more stupid
They forgot to build a pipe
They dont like pipes
Rich liberals want the price even higher.
Obama hates the oil industry
The oil industry hates Obama and are hoping this kills his reelection
Liberals want everyone ridding donkeys and bicycles to work as a sacrifice for the planet
We moved more armaments to the gulf because Iran is taking over the world
Wild money printing and massive deficits
Americans love high gas prices
Refinery margins are tight They hardly make any money at all.
The masses have no idea how free market works.
It is being exported because we are making more than we use.
Demand has fallen
We need refinery upgrades and expansion
We are making more than we use so we have to sell it to the Chinese, (They have 1 billion mopeds to fuel , and need to go to work so they can send us more Communist products .
We have plenty of oil, so much so, we need to sell it abroad to keep prices low.
We have plenty of oil, so much so, we need to sell it abroad to keep prices high.
Barry intentionally pissed off the oil companies and seriously limited their profit
The population has increased
The less people drive the higher the price, so you need to drive more.
This is caused by warm weather.
Its caused by cold weather.
We are importing less crude oil and even become an exporter of refined products.
High gas prices have creates jobs and wealth in the US, so we need to export more oil.
High gas prices are good for the economy. When it reaches $6 per gallon, America will be back on track.
We need to reduce or eliminate gasoline usage, which drives the need to explore for more oil.
That is an entirely separate issue from the price of oil - Sara is complaining about environmental impact.
No, I am complaining about not getting anything in return for the risk and not even a guarentee of oil independence for the trouble.
It is public land. And I am not a mile wide, inch deep materialistic libertarian. Life is a little deeper to me than the money of some fat a$$ globe trotter who would just as soon cut my and my Nation’s throat as look at us.
Thanks for clearing that up. As clear as the Gulf of Mexico!LOL
Losing the mortgage interest deduction will raise our taxes by almost $6000 a year
Seeing as $1000 in interest will save you about $200 in taxes, this tells me that you spend roughly $180,000 in real estate loan interest every year. Wow!
To complete my earlier thought, though, I would like to see them do the same thing with the home interest deduction that reagan did with taxes on “the rich”. That is, they removed the deductions, but also reduced the tax rate. This made it fairer and simpler at the same time.
I believed this even when I was able to take the big deduction (including charitable giving, especially.
BP was an abberation in Gulf exploration. And they have been fined billions and lost a good amount of stock value in the process. It is indicative of the larger issues over the last decade of not taking risk management seriously. That has changed by necessity. Even corporations depending upon bailouts realize that can't last forever and are changing their risk management processes.
Meanwhile, keep driving your car, keep powering your home, and pretend that you bear no role in the need to explore for more energy. And if you think nationalized oil companies are the answer, just check the history of such in Mexico and Venezuala.
Oh, and for you to whine about energy independence is the height of hypocrisy. Yours in the mindset of those who seek to make it harder to find oil in this country, which in turn makes it harder to achieve energy independence.
Stop the circle argument. There is no guarentee we get energy independence and therefore, no guarenteed benefit to the US in letting them make a mess of things. The globe trotters could care less about you and the gas for your car. Oil companies and refineries screw up all the time from some degree to another. There is a clear cost and bigger risk to the Nation’s people and no benefit from it. Only the globe trotters benefit.
Dirtboy does not like it that I know that the oil pumped in this country is for the global market - not for this country’s oil independence as advertised. We take all the risk and mess and get no guarenteed benefit in return. Screw that global market “deal.” If we pump it from public land for the purpose of oil independence or the oil “shortage”, we should get it. Otherwise we suffer to feed the industry for all the industry the globalists shipped off to China.
He’s also have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that his beloved oil companies slimed the heck out of the Gulf of Mexico and that it is a big dang deal - losses and terrible.
Globalism, as it is currently constructed, benefits the elitists only. With oil it leaves a nasty deposit on the way out of the country to benefit some other economy - not our’s.
Gawd, you are just plain dumb. Oil is fungible. We don't pump enough of it in this country, we need to import it, because our consumption is higher than we we produce. If things were done your way, gasoline would be HIGHER - because we would restrict our oil for our use - which is not enough - and who would we import it from?
And one reason why such is the case is that people like you - who use gasoline and energy - also shriek about evil oil companies and are suckers for liberal agitprop about energy production.
So stick it where it don't shine - but be sure to remove your head from there first.
Your ignorance and hypocrisy on this thread are staggering - you are the thing of liberal enviro-weenie dreams, an alleged conservative who has no clue how economics works and who pushes for socialized oil and excessive restrictions on energy exploration.
President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner
In 2010 the United States imported 11.8 million barrels per day (MMbd) of crude oil and refined petroleum products. We also exported 2.3 MMbd of crude oil and petroleum products during 2010, so our net imports (imports minus exports) equaled 9.4 MMbd.
I agree with you on all that ...And to think that it only cost Osama Bin Laden half a million dollars to set all that into motion. The wars and real estate bubble (then bank collapse then taxpayer bailouts) courtesy of ultra low interest rates set by the Federal Reserve trying to juice the economy in the aftermath of 9-11
That is real financial leverage (that $500,000 spent)
Hey smartypants. Talk to the hand because the head knows you are a shyster. :)
The week of April 13th 2012, the US imported 8,718 thousand barrels of crude. And exported 38 thousand barrels of crude. We also exported 2,687 thosand barrels of refined products. But anyone with a third grade math education can see that our imports vastly exceeded our imports. So tell us again how we export all of our oil for the benefit of other countries. We are a net IMPORTER, and will be for a while - and especially if shrill, uninformed, hypocritical nitwits like you have any influence on energy development, or lack thereof as a result.
Ok lady, that is scary, you're suggesting the torture and execution of oil company employees.
Don't you think there's something wrong with that?
Hey dumbass - refute the hard statistics I just posted.
And more uninformed idiocy. The reason Argentina imports energy is because they don't have enough refining capacity, and have to import gasoline and other finished products - this may be news to you, but you can't run your car on unrefined crude. Since they cannot refine all of their own crude, they export what they cannot refine and make money off of that, instead of doing nothing with it.
And why does Argentina need to import finished products?
Argentina is South Americas largest natural gas producer and a significant producer of oil. However, the heavily regulated energy sector includes policies that limit the industrys attractiveness to private investors while shielding consumers from rising prices. Consequently, demand for energy in Argentinas rapidly growing economy continues to rise while production of both oil and gas are in decline leading Argentina to depend increasingly upon energy imports.
And your solution is to what, cheerlead nationalization? Can you point to ANY such nationalization that has done squat for a country's economy? PEMEX is a wreck. Prime example of how your socialist dreamworld always craps out in the end.
The truth is out there if you bother to visit websites other than conspiracy idiocy.
I am enjoying reading this exchange but Sara, when you make it personal by naming and insulting a poster it looks like you don't have enough info to support your point.
Read the exchange more carefully. Dirtyboy melted down into insults so I cut him off.
He’s got nothing because he knows there is no guarentee the oil we pump in an expansion will do anything to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. It will become the property of the oil company and go on the global market. Period.
So when you hear they are going to pump US oil to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, that is only true if the lease with the oil companies reflect that agreement as a condition of the lease. Otherwise it is globalist bunk all over again, and again and again.
Sorry Sara, you lost me after "Dirtyboy".
Your debating skills suck.
Would the GOP House actually let the scumbags get away with stealing private retirement accounts?
I just can’t see it.
I showed that we still import far more than we export. And that most of our exports are almost entirely finished products because our consumption has dropped so much. We export to places like Argentina with crappy socialistic policies that you approve of that prevent them from having enough refining capacity to refine their own oil, so they have to import it.
It will become the property of the oil company and go on the global market. Period.
OK, Sara, YOU bid on the lease and figure out how to get it out of the ground, back to shore, refined and in your car.
** crickets **
I statistically refuted all of your nonsensical claims about exporting our oil. But I guess facts are not your currency of choice, so your uninformed and unsubstantiated rantings stand as a monument to your particular brand of socialistic ignorance. Hey, maybe there is an anti G-20 rally you could attend to join your other brethern who decry corporations as they eagerly gobble up what those corporations produce.
I need a drink....
Now it’s clear why you jumped in on me with your pal there.
So tell us, Sara - in your utopian world, should the US NOT export refined products even though we have excess capacity? Should oil companies instead close those refineries? Or should there be government policies - like Argentina's - that keep gasoline prices lower than world markets, like what is also done in countries such as Iran, which leads to budget-busting deficits.
So tell us, Sara - what would YOUR policies be to effect your view on the evils of global fungibility of oil and refined products? Anyone can complain. Give us a workable policy.
I don't understand this comment, please explain.
I don't understand this comment, please explain.
BHO is pure socialist evil!!!!!! He has to go!!!!!!
I did too and then I left the company and cashed out the 401(k). I chat with my former co-workers occasionally. One of them told me that he ended up $900 less than what he started at the beginning of 2011. So all of his contributions plus the companies contributions were for naught.
He would have been better off to have paid down debt directly.
It’s ideas like this that cause people to buy guns.
If the feds make a grab for 401(k)’s, all bets are off.
I think they know this; I think they’re counting on it.
Trolling does not become you. :)
LOL! Like I said earlier, you're not very good at debating.
So tell us, Sara
It’s claimed to Americans that we have tons of oil to make it so we don’t have to import it anymore if we only would drill it. Is that true?
Not shifting the subject to refinery numbers to fog the room, the answer is no - the oil will go on the global market to whoever contracts with the oil company to pay the highest price for it. That might be the US or it could be another economy.
In addition, due to global trade agreements, our government could give drilling lease to China like Obammy has recently done with the oil pipe line from Canada. China and India are going to continue to grow in oil need to absorb what we produce here.
Americans have no guarenteed benefit from drilling except the mess of it unless we put controls in the leasing agreement and globalists would not tolerate that. America’s not permitted to look out for our own interest and need in globalsim.
You have proided NO evidence American have that guarentee of oil independence. It is a bs claim that the US can become energy independent if we drill our own oil.
LOL. Like I said trolls are not so good at adding anying valuable to a debate on adult subjects.
We and the future of the U.S. face a disaster of epic proportions if spending is not curbed massively and quickly. Many will suffer but not nearly as many as will suffer on the present course. I have no illusions that anything right will be done though.
Most of the 401K generation will join the largest group of indigent geriatrics ever seen. Their children will feel sorry for them but not be able to do much about it. These children will be staggering under the burden of massive taxes just paying interest on the national debt and for the maintenance of more than half the population living on the labors of the other half.
Before all this really goes into full swing though we will suffer either Civil War or will be defeated by some other power. Our military might if not for offensive purposes then for defense alone will be decimated by budget cuts.
The problems of the elderly are always serious but seldom interesting. I wish I could be alive to see this clown you pictured grey, wither and suffer massively to his own end.
Hint - the basic laws of Chicago school economics work far better than socialism, and have brought the world far more wealth, comfort and happiness. Including you.
I am not a troll.
If you want to be on or off the Agenda 21 ping list, please notify me by Freepmail. It is a relatively low volume list in which we have been exploring the UN Agenda21 and related topics. We have collected our studies with threads, links, and discussions on the Agenda 21 thread which can be found here:
NEW ACTION THREAD:
Oh, that's rich. You are waving pom-poms for Argentina's takeover of its oil industry - socialism epitomized.
You are complaining about how Argentina has to export its own oil while failing to acknowledge that Argentina's policies has led to a situation where it doesn't have enough refining capacity to refine its own oil, hence the need to export. And that Argentina's nationalization of its oil industry will only make that problem worse as private investors will be completely unwilling to invest in a country that has just taken over petroleum infrastructure.
And you wail about our country exporting oil. That is insane. We export far less volume in refined products than we import in crude. So basically we import crude, refine it, send our excess capacity back out, and keep the rest here to make up for our own shortfall. We export a miniscule amount of crude and only where logistics make it more practical to send it overseas than to US refineries.
So you have staked a position that ignores all levels of reality. Yet lecture another poster about failing to add anything adult to the conversation. Quite frankly, your uniformed rantings are little different that a stoned college freshman struggling to re-state his first week in Econ 101.