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1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or underemployed
Yahoo! News / The Associated Press ^ | Hope Yen

Posted on 04/22/2012 12:31:28 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

The college class of 2012 is in for a rude welcome to the world of work.

A weak labor market already has left half of young college graduates either jobless or underemployed in positions that don't fully use their skills and knowledge.

Young adults with bachelor's degrees are increasingly scraping by in lower-wage jobs — waiter or waitress, bartender, retail clerk or receptionist, for example — and that's confounding their hopes a degree would pay off despite higher tuition and mounting student loans....

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: college; economy; obama; unemployment
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To: meadsjn
Technically speaking picking a career path back in 2001 and studying for it, you could not have foreseen the predicament we are in today.

Today even accounting is contracting.

101 posted on 04/22/2012 5:34:44 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: bigoil
You missed the news ~ the price of gas is dropping like a rock. They are pulling the gear out of the new wells.
102 posted on 04/22/2012 5:36:49 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Black_Shark
I know you fella's imagine there's some sort of 'management track' ~ but there isn't.

And you don't need to be ON IT by the time you are 30.

Over my career I watched middle-managment DISAPPEAR. There were so many baby-boomers around with 'raw management talent" you could hire half a dozen of them as "project managers" and avoid hiring on the VP who'd cost you much more and was not as easy to outsource later on.

What you see today in terms of management structure is an echo of what there used to be! Technology has taken down those jobs first ~ much to the surprise of folks who thought they could move up into them.

You want to be a boss get your own company ~ and BTW, don't hire too many managers ~

103 posted on 04/22/2012 5:42:03 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Black_Shark

Mathematics is part of Liberal Arts. So ~ what was it you said?


104 posted on 04/22/2012 5:43:56 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Black_Shark

>What programming languages are most in demand? As I stated, I know some SAS but otherwise haven’t had the time nor inclination to learn computer programming.
>
>Any suggestions?

While not in-demand*, I would suggest learning Ada first.
This in order to impress upon you good programming skills / habits / ideas. An Ada compiler is very ‘picky’ about rejecting programs with detectable errors, and so when you get it to compile correctly you can be very confident that any bugs are logical: the exact sort that you need to be concentrated on the problem at-hand, rather than language-traps like pointers in C/C++.

After that, I’d go with a .NET language (C#, likely) for the “marketability” attribute.


* To say it’s not in-demand is a lie; it is in demand in the Aerospace, real-time system, and the high-integrity systems. The hard thing is finding the “entry level” jobs (most I’ve seen) they are looking for 5+/10+ years of experience [and maybe a security-clearance].


105 posted on 04/22/2012 5:44:14 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: central_va; Black_Shark
Folks unable to learn advanced software applications, and that includes modern programming methods/techniques/languages, are probably in the wrong field.

Intriguingly the folks who deride "art" are probably totally unaware of how that field is flipping over to computer based pixelation faster than you can shake a stick. There you really do need to learn to use 3D animation just to talk to the big boys.

No guarantees on employment but that stuff starts at the top for talent.

In Leonardo DaVinci's day the best engineers were first and foremost "artists" because that's where the big bucks were ~ same thing today.

106 posted on 04/22/2012 5:48:55 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: grey_whiskers

>Just curious — is Eclipse free? — and is it based on Windows or UNIX?

Yes. ;)
(You can get builds for Windows and for Linux; it is also free.)


107 posted on 04/22/2012 5:49:24 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: central_va

>>I’ve been asked questions like “what is the general structure of an if-statement.”
>
>I have a degree in EE and was asked what is Ohm’s Law? I got up and left, I was totally rude but I was pissed off. I just stormed out of the place without saying a word. For all I know the dufus thought I was a fraud and knew nothing about EE. But clearly my resume said BSEE on it so it is all retarded in the end....
>
>For Freepers who can’t understand this it would be like interviewing a Physician an asking him/her “So do you know what blood is?”

You know EXACTLY what I’m talking about then.


108 posted on 04/22/2012 5:58:31 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Darth Hillary
Used to be a federal government title that was quite common, and impressive sounding enough to some ~ "Executive Assistant to the Associate Deputy Director" ~ you'd find out most of those guys were GS14s, which ain't all that bad, but it meant you'd do anything to get a title, and that meant "anything".

There's always plenty of "anything" going around! Lots of competition for it too.

109 posted on 04/22/2012 5:59:19 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: central_va
With virtually any large institutional employer your FIRST interview will be with a doufous.

That's a test to see if you have any idea what you are getting into. If you don't you'll storm off in a huff having instantaneously deselected yourself for that particular environment.

110 posted on 04/22/2012 6:09:32 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

>”Executive Assistant to the Associate Deputy Director”

So, basically “secretary,” no?


111 posted on 04/22/2012 6:11:20 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Black_Shark
I started in IT 20 years ago, worked for quite a few companies including banks, and now I run my own IT company.

I totally relate to your frustration and I remember feeling the same way right out of school. It was very hard even getting an interview at the entry level. BUT - You just have to keep on making calls and talking to people. Stay on friendly terms with all the recruiters and managers you can and when things break open hopefully they will call you before posting ads for job openings. The market has been tight for a while now, longer than normal and I expect it to open up before too much longer. You just need to stay on top of your game, and have a certain amount of flexibility in jumping over whatever stepping stones you need to jump over while continuously re-evaluating what steps you need to take to reach your goal. Smile & keep a positive can do attitude, that impresses managers. Your situation is not unique and many of your peers are in the same boat.

Also - I don't think your goal in unrealistic at all, and I suspect you will achieve it, or something close to it as long as you keep fighting the good fight. But what might surprise you is 5 years down the road you might get sick of all the politics and BS you will have to put up with at a major financial. But regardless, it will still enhance your career having seen what they are like from the inside. BTW: You really are more valuable with the degree, even if it doesn't feel that way right this minute.

112 posted on 04/22/2012 6:16:27 PM PDT by Darth Hillary
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To: muawiyah

Not in todays Universities it isn’t. Liberal Arts majors don’t have to take ANY math. I know because before I was Econ I spent 2 years as Poli-sci with plans on Law School. Even in a math school, no math was required for the arts.


113 posted on 04/22/2012 6:16:41 PM PDT by Black_Shark
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To: OneWingedShark
No, that would be a "Senior Secretary" ~ in the federal government an "Executive Assistant" has a real job with some degree of responsibility ~ might even be the go-to guy for the department's multi-billion dollar budget BUT it's the LENGTH of the title, not the job duties that sets those guys off.

Remember, the federal government hasn't done any serious expanding since 1960 ~ so there was no growth commensurate with an ever greater population ~ and simultaneously electronics displaced most traditional government work. That made having a long title a highly desirable ambition for a certain type of person.

The fellow you want to stand up and salute in any federal agency is the one who can sign "final agency decision". All those other people are just supernumeraries.

114 posted on 04/22/2012 6:20:30 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Black_Shark
The discipline of Mathematics is IN Liberal Arts ~ Engineering is in Engineering ~ English is IN Liberal Arts ~ Medicine is IN Liberal Arts ~ Architecture is in Architecture (from which Engineering was taken) ~ Planning is in Architecture ~ Law is IN Liberal Arts ~ Agronomy is ....... well, wherever you find REAL bulls ~ that's where that's at.

There's a structure to all academic disciplines dating back to the Middle Ages. Stick with it.

I know you want to deride "the Arts" as consisting of little more than Art History and Wymyn's studies, but they are actually in a new creation called - Education.

Even Art ~ the real thing ~ is in Liberal Arts, but some aspects of Art show up in Architecture, and Design is one of those aborning studies that is managed out of several different disciplines.

The primary characteristic of a degree from the College of Arts and Sciences is that you met a foreign language requirement ~ either through study, or by testing. If you didn't take a foreign language, or pass a test, you don't have a degree in the Liberal Arts ~ you have something from the School of Business, or the School of Education, or maybe Engineering. My degree is in Latin ~ 'cause I can read it even if others can't!

115 posted on 04/22/2012 6:28:20 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: keats5

I got out and started my own business (retail). That didn’t work out so I got a gig as a prison warden. Now I’m working in radiation effects testing.

With a Phil degree, you can pretty much BS your way into anyting.


116 posted on 04/22/2012 6:48:26 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Older graduates can’t find work either - my wife went back to school ad got her early childhood ed degree in December but cannot find a job.


117 posted on 04/22/2012 8:13:02 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Hope springs eternal - maybe the Bucs will break .500 this year)
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To: muawiyah

The formal and I’d say outdated definition is what you state. However, my University specifically lists those courses under “Liberal Arts”.

I agree with your definition however that isn’t how Universities are run anymore. Stupid, really.


118 posted on 04/22/2012 8:39:33 PM PDT by Black_Shark
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To: Some Fat Guy in L.A.

I’m a former career counselor and recruiter. FReepmail me her resume and I’ll see what I can do.


119 posted on 04/22/2012 8:41:41 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: Black_Shark

I’m sorry Black_Shark

I wish you the best!


120 posted on 04/22/2012 9:02:05 PM PDT by jcsjcm (This country was built on exceptionalism and individualism. In God we Trust - Laus Deo)
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To: Black_Shark

If I get offered $35K for a deadend job, I say “no but thank you” and move on to the next interview.

Are you kidding me? You did not say no??

Well, being that the job market seems to be so difficult for you in your field requiring you to have 2 years experience and you state no thank you, I would woop your behind! Yeah, sorry the mother in me kicks in! I missed if you did internship at all while in college?

Sorry, nvm! You’ll figure this out, just don’t wait too long to actually say yes. You may not get the number you are looking for. You should not expect a certain level of pay just out of college. Does college tell you that? Is that their selling point? UGH

Sorry again Black_Shark, I don’t mean to be snipping at you! I’m just envisioning what I would do to my son if he ever told me that. Ever heard the saying I brought you into this world and I can take you out? Yeah, that’s me! hahaha


121 posted on 04/22/2012 9:27:33 PM PDT by jcsjcm (This country was built on exceptionalism and individualism. In God we Trust - Laus Deo)
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To: keats5
LOL. My husband majored in Philosophy too. When we married he eventually tired of working in the mill and went to law school, which vastly improved his earning potential.

A friend of mine got his PhD in philosophy. He ended living in a hovel in Harlem and driving a cab, with a side job as a lexicographer. Eventually, when he grew tired of that lifestyle and was pushing forty, he went to Columbia Law School. These days, he's quite affluent.

122 posted on 04/22/2012 9:30:23 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Black_Shark
Yes, I’ve researched this. There is a huge demand for data analysts due to the large amount of data that companies produce and the valuable conclusions that can be derived from such data.

Maybe Target is hiring.

123 posted on 04/22/2012 9:35:01 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
Yep. Move to the work instead of excuses to stay in the nest.
The more ambitious will create work for themselves.
124 posted on 04/22/2012 9:52:19 PM PDT by MaxMax
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To: Black_Shark
What programming languages are most in demand? As I stated, I know some SAS but otherwise haven’t had the time nor inclination to learn computer programming.

It's hard to conceive of working as a data analyst without being at least an amateur programmer.

I would learn Python next. The language encompasses a lot of good programming philosophy. It has tons of libraries available. It is well supported by its large user community. Ruby wouldn't be a bad idea as well.

You want a tool that will let you apply your own algorithms and ideas to the data you are analyzing, that will clean up and organize the data and summarize it as you wish. Once you start using such a tool, you will find that you will learn it relatively painlessly, the motivation coming from the tool's usefulness.

A good place to research questions in this area is Hacker News. E.g., google best data analysis language site:ycombinator.com.

125 posted on 04/22/2012 10:02:23 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Black_Shark

Oh, and it wouldn’t hurt to be proficient in SQL as well. And, if you can choose which DBMS, go with PostgreSQL. It’s free and very powerful. Most business data is either already in a DBMS or could benefit from being placed in one by a knowledgeable analyst.


126 posted on 04/22/2012 10:08:26 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: central_va
Just remember there is no end to the learning. I am 53 and I am learning the Struts framework now.

Learn Apache Wicket, once you go Wicket, you'll never even think about Struts again....although, like COBOL, there are still a lot of legacy apps running on it.

Lately, I have been looking and Google Apps, Google Sites and Google Apps Script (which is basically JavaScript with some Google-specific APIs), at first I was skeptical, but you can do some pretty cool stuff with it.

That's another, learn JavaScript, and if you are doing front-end stuff, learn about JavaScript libraries, like JQuery.

127 posted on 04/22/2012 10:11:47 PM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: dfwgator

I have to use struts for my job, it isn’t always what you want to do. I also have to build a hibernate app and I have no choice in the matter. I am the type that learns from necessity, if my job required skill A then I would obtain skill A. I also try to anticipate, if I think skill B would be useful on my job I will learn it on my own.


128 posted on 04/23/2012 3:12:58 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: OneWingedShark

My point was about his high expectations, not questions posed during job interviews.


129 posted on 04/23/2012 4:59:33 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: jcsjcm

I’m sorry I didn’t fully explain. By deadend job I mean sales at Norhwestern Mutual NOT a contract-to-hire job or job in my field. And by refuse, I refuse in favor of a masters in Econ with a masters minor in stats.

I would never turn down a job in my chosen field or one with promising networking opportunities.

That’s my fault for not specifying.


130 posted on 04/23/2012 6:25:24 AM PDT by Black_Shark
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To: Black_Shark

Sales? UGH, no way, no how! I didn’t realize it was unrelated. Good choice on your part then. :)


131 posted on 04/23/2012 7:37:11 AM PDT by jcsjcm (This country was built on exceptionalism and individualism. In God we Trust - Laus Deo)
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To: miss marmelstein

> My point was about his high expectations, not questions posed during job interviews.

I suppose I should have been more explicit: it seems that the basic respect for having graduated with a degree in the field *IS* a high expectation.


132 posted on 04/23/2012 7:37:49 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

I would say that a young person needs to get used to the eccentricities that go on during job interviews. No need to accept the job but why not just answer all questions to the best of your ability and then walk out, swearing never to work for THAT person. Learning how to deal with job interviews is just as important as actually doing the job.

I was once asked during a job interview to do an algebra problem! I did it but knew the guy was a bit of a jerk. (The job had nothing to do with algebra or even math, lol!)


133 posted on 04/23/2012 8:44:53 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
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Click the Pic

That reminds me!
Free Republic could use a fill-up too


Donate monthly to help abolish FReepathons
Sponsors will bark up $10 for each new monthly sign-up

134 posted on 04/23/2012 9:50:32 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: jcsjcm

haha, thank you.


135 posted on 04/23/2012 12:15:03 PM PDT by Black_Shark
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To: Black_Shark
You are more valuable -- you claimed you have turned down $35,000 / yr offers.

How many high school students are offered $35,000/yr to start with zero experience?

Incidentally -- it may bear thinking about. If you take one of those jobs, it starts counting towards "experience".

Only you know your goals best, but there is a lot of good advice up and down this thread: based on people's actually having been in the working world.

Are you committed to only one geographical area, or are you free to move? Are you open only to full-time permanent, or would you consider contracting?

Lotsa possibilities.

Cheers!

136 posted on 04/23/2012 7:13:52 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers

I’m open to move anywhere. I have mentioned, multiple times, that the job was insurance sales. Compete dead end job with worthless exp. I’d take. 20k job in data analysis but not insurance sales.

I’m a horrible salesman


137 posted on 04/23/2012 7:27:43 PM PDT by Black_Shark
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