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Va. couple accidentally shot at gun safety class...(a 45 no less.)
Yahoo News ^ | 04/24/12 | Yahoo News Staff

Posted on 04/24/2012 7:29:03 AM PDT by AngelesCrestHighway

Edited on 04/24/2012 7:33:24 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]


(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: banglist; oops; roanoke; shooting
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Still had one chambered I see...
1 posted on 04/24/2012 7:29:08 AM PDT by AngelesCrestHighway
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To: AngelesCrestHighway

2 for 1


2 posted on 04/24/2012 7:31:15 AM PDT by nuconvert ( Khomeini promised change too // Hail, Chairman O)
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To: AngelesCrestHighway

Automatic handguns scare me and I am EXPERIENCED

I would never own one - I am happy to have a revolver.

Even after I had cleared the weapon I was always afraid i had screwed up and still had a round chambered.

(Just a personal preference folks)


3 posted on 04/24/2012 7:32:28 AM PDT by Mr. K (If Romney wins the primary, I am writing-in PALIN)
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To: AngelesCrestHighway

So much for that instructor’s NRA certifications. Rule #1 - treat all guns as loaded. Rule #2 - keep you finger off the trigger. And for the grand prize, why was there live ammo anywhere near a gun being used as a training tool?


4 posted on 04/24/2012 7:32:28 AM PDT by JrsyJack (a healthy dose of buckshot will probably get you the last word in any argument.)
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To: AngelesCrestHighway
The instructor... told police he'd left the room

Well there's yer' problem.

5 posted on 04/24/2012 7:33:20 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan (My tagline is in the shop.)
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To: AngelesCrestHighway

How many nano-seconds after this happened did Mike Bloomberg hold a press conference saying this is why we should ban guns?


6 posted on 04/24/2012 7:33:55 AM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (From the dough tree we get donuts.)
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To: JrsyJack

Just because you take a class don’t mean the you listen or learn. This class appears to be self grading and they got an “F”.


7 posted on 04/24/2012 7:38:14 AM PDT by The Old Commander (Where is Madam dufarge when we need her?)
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To: Mr. K

I carry both revolvers and SA pistols. The key words to remember when using a SA is DAO and/or safety. I agree that cock and lock is very dangerous. Also always perform a thorough careful inspection of the chamber when clearing the weapon. The next best bit of advice to anyone is to practice proper gun safety 100% of the time.


8 posted on 04/24/2012 7:44:13 AM PDT by DarthVader (Politicians govern out of self interest, Statesmen govern for a Vision greater than themselves)
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To: Mr. K

Agreed...In a stress situation of firing at someone you could lose count and/or forget another bullet has been chambered.


9 posted on 04/24/2012 7:44:22 AM PDT by AngelesCrestHighway
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To: AngelesCrestHighway

Okay, cue that video from a few years ago of the police instructor shooting his foot... 3... 2... 1...


10 posted on 04/24/2012 7:45:28 AM PDT by C210N (Go Newt!)
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To: C210N
here it is...
11 posted on 04/24/2012 7:48:02 AM PDT by C210N (Go Newt!)
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To: Mr. K
Even after I had cleared the weapon I was always afraid i had screwed up and still had a round chambered.

It is very simple to open the action, lock it open and then inspect the chamber to confirm there is nothing there.

With the magazine removed, you can see light from two directions confirming it is empty.

I know you know that but with experience and practice it becomes second nature.

12 posted on 04/24/2012 7:48:34 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I will not comply. I will NEVER submit.)
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To: AngelesCrestHighway

Lesson one — check the pipe, dumbass.

SnakeDoc


13 posted on 04/24/2012 7:50:25 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens)
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To: JrsyJack

Live ammo is not allowed in any NRA class. If he was a NRA instructor, he won’t be anymore.


14 posted on 04/24/2012 7:58:06 AM PDT by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
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To: SnakeDoctor

always always always...


15 posted on 04/24/2012 8:01:31 AM PDT by AngelesCrestHighway
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To: Mr. K

‘Even after I had cleared the weapon I was always afraid i had screwed up and still had a round chambered.’

I dont see how it would be diff for a wheel gun or autoloader.

Its simple really...keep your finger off the trigger until youre ready to shoot and dont point the weapon at anything youre not willing to destroy.


16 posted on 04/24/2012 8:04:20 AM PDT by 556x45
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To: SnakeDoctor
I owned several semis a 45 and a 9mm and both guns were OK but in both cases there was too much maintenance required and neither were as reliable as a revolver.

On very rare occasions I've had a pistol round misfire, but in 60 plus years of shooting, I can count the number of times that a revolver didn't fire.

The semis would jam and misfire with regularity.

When I would go to the gun shop, they explained that when shooting a semi you could expect that sometimes the spring in the clip would "go soft" and in rapid fire situations, the gun would jam.

After years of having semis jam {I don't mean to imply that jamming was an every day or even every month happening} but it was often enough to make me think.

One main reason for me to own and carry a pistol is self defense, and if the gun may misfire, I don't want it.

I traded all of my semis in and bought extra revolvers.

Not the same rapid fire power, but with speed loaders, you don't lose that much.

Whether it's a semi or a revolver, treat it as if it is always loaded, and you won't ever shoot anyone by accident.

17 posted on 04/24/2012 8:08:37 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorists savages.)
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To: JrsyJack

#3 Loaded or not, never point your weapon at anything you don’t aim to shoot.


18 posted on 04/24/2012 8:09:07 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Cheney/Rumsfeld 2012)
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To: AngelesCrestHighway
Va. couple accidentally shot at gun safety class...(a 45 no less.)

Jeez...talk about being in the RIGHT PLACE at the WRONG TIME!

19 posted on 04/24/2012 8:17:29 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: DarthVader
I agree that cock and lock is very dangerous.

I disagree, particularly on the 1911 platform.

20 posted on 04/24/2012 8:31:05 AM PDT by 03A3
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To: C210N

LOL!

The only one “professional enough” to handle the glock. BAM!


21 posted on 04/24/2012 8:49:48 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: 556x45
Its simple really...keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot and dont point the weapon at anything you're not willing to destroy.My Dad's rule almost verbatim. "Never point in the direction of the house and don't shoot at anything you're not willing to kill."
22 posted on 04/24/2012 8:52:15 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Mr. K

First, it’s a semi-automatic, not an automatic pistol.

Second, 90% of SA Pistols are unsafe. Why? Because they lack a real safety, and an indicator of a round in the chamber.

Both the Taurus PT709 slim and the some of the Kahr models offer a REAL safety and a loaded chamber indicator you can see/feel in the dark. This, along with training, make these SA Pistols safer than a revolver, and easier to carry. Both pistols mentioned are < 3 x 5 inches and less than one inch thick.

What I mean by “real safety” is a safety that is NOT disengaged simply by gripping the gun in a normal manner. (grip interlocks, trigger safeties, etc).
They are great for the professional (police) use, but because the citizen does not use/shoot his gun on a daily basis, they more often lead to accidents.

BTW, for those of you glock lovers out there, no we are not in the old west quickdraw competitions. In fact, any competant gun trainer will tell you not to draw your concealed weapon unless there is at least 10-15 feet between you and your assailant.


23 posted on 04/24/2012 8:54:48 AM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: AngelesCrestHighway

First rule of a gun safety class is don’t let the students bring their guns.


24 posted on 04/24/2012 8:55:58 AM PDT by bmwcyle (I am ready to serve Jesus on Earth because the GOP failed again)
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To: Mr. K

With all due respect, it’s a semi-automatic and it’s a tool just like any other tool. Learn to use it and respect it, just like you would any other tool.

My husband and I were NRA certified in pistol and rifle (we let the certs slip, although we still teach). If someone is shot in a gun safety class, then it was not being taught correctly. No live ammo in the room. We use cute pink and blue replicas for the gun handling part. Even with the fake guns we demand the safety rules be followed — particularly KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER and DON’T POINT THE MUZZLE AT ANYONE OR ANYTHING YOU DON’T WANT TO DESTROY. If you can’t follow the rules with a fake gun - we ain’t letting ya shoot a real one. At least, not around us.

Someone one got really sloppy.


25 posted on 04/24/2012 9:04:06 AM PDT by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
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To: USS Alaska

Try a better semi-auto. I carry an HK P30 9mm. It is as reliable as they come. Holds 15+1.

There’s a reason the SEALs carry HKs (they carry the .45 version of the P30, the HK45ct). Don’t want your sidearm jamming with a terrorist smiling at you.

SnakeDoc


26 posted on 04/24/2012 9:07:42 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens)
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To: 03A3

John Browning designed that weapon to be carried cocked and unlocked.

The grip safety is brilliant, and it works.


27 posted on 04/24/2012 9:12:30 AM PDT by MikeSteelBe (Austrian Hitler was, as the Halfrican Hitler does.)
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To: USS Alaska

“...you could expect that sometimes the spring in the clip would “go soft” and in rapid fire situations, the gun would jam....”

I always use high-quality magazines, and rotate the ammo out of them into other mags, let them ‘rest’, and then rotate those mags too, that’s not a problem.

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-47D-1911-Magazine-45-ACP-Full-Size-8-Round-Standard-Base-Pad/productinfo/47D/

Yeah, they’re not cheap mags.

I do that 2-weekly rotation with the mag in the well, as well as the 2 extras in the add’l paddle holster carrier. I have 15 of those WC Mags.

http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPG3.asp?ProductID=2053&GunID=173

My 3 full-size 1911 Kimber .45cal ACPs have never jammed/misfired in 14yrs. Probably over 10k thru the 3 in IDPA, NRA Comp, targets etc.

That said, I also have a pristine 1974 Colt Trooper MKIII .357mag which I love, but the 6” barrel makes for difficult CCW, unless I use the Bianchi Shoulder-Hoslter-Rig, under a jacket. In 100F+ heat, that’s problematic. The Kimbers are less difficult to conceal in the Galco Paddle Holsters.

http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPG3.asp?ProductID=815&GunID=173

All that said, there’s always “a first time”...


28 posted on 04/24/2012 9:36:07 AM PDT by carriage_hill (I'd vote for a "orange juice can", before 0bummer&HisRegimeFromHell, gets another 4yrs. Can-> later.)
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To: DarthVader

Glocks don’t have a traditional safety. You best safety is the three pound, shoulder mounted computer.


29 posted on 04/24/2012 9:47:20 AM PDT by USAF80
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To: BereanBrain
Second, 90% of SA Pistols are unsafe. Why? Because they lack a real safety, and an indicator of a round in the chamber.

So this means that 100% of all revolvers are also unsafe? Every weapon is safe if you as long as you keep your fingers and any other object off the trigger.

In a life or death, Oh sh!t situation you may not have time to rack and fire.

30 posted on 04/24/2012 9:54:27 AM PDT by USAF80
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To: BereanBrain
Second, 90% of SA Pistols are unsafe. Why? Because they lack a real safety, and an indicator of a round in the chamber. Both the Taurus PT709 slim and the some of the Kahr models offer a REAL safety and a loaded chamber indicator you can see/feel in the dark. This, along with training, make these SA Pistols safer than a revolver, and easier to carry.

We have different preferences. I don't want a loaded chamber indicator. All weapons are to be treated as loaded, whether or not they indicate as loaded. I don't find the "safety" particularly relevant in evaluating whether a firearm is safe either. None of my weapons are on "safe" at this moment, or ever unless required by rules at a particular range. In my interaction with firearms, safety comes from proper handling, not from mechanical devices. So long as others don't try to mandate particular safety measures for my weapons or for my home, I don't mind if they choose their own purchases based on their preferences but I would be unhappy with any efforts to require that I buy more junk that I don't want.

Note: My last purchase came with an annoying lock that suffered an immediate "mechanical failure". I do not want anything to interfere with the proper operation of my firearms, nor do I want to have to find and insert a key in the dark if I need to defend my family.

31 posted on 04/24/2012 10:17:16 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Can we afford as much government as welfare-addicted voters demand?)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Lesson #1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded
Lesson #2. If gun is not loaded see lesson #1

Rinse,lather,repeat.....


32 posted on 04/24/2012 10:20:50 AM PDT by Mom MD (The country needs Obamacare like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask)
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To: stansblugrassgrl

Geez... Can you people read??

I CLEARLY stated that it was a PERSONAL PREFERENCE

I respect the hell out of it- enough to know I am too stupid to have one- they scare the hell out of me

Revolvers I am fine with


33 posted on 04/24/2012 10:21:12 AM PDT by Mr. K (If Romney wins the primary, I am writing-in PALIN)
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To: USAF80

No mine is a Sig Sauer P250C chambered in .357 SIG. I have no problem with Glocks either as I have a few of them too.


34 posted on 04/24/2012 10:26:58 AM PDT by DarthVader (Politicians govern out of self interest, Statesmen govern for a Vision greater than themselves)
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To: Mr. K

Mr. K - I can read. You called it an automatic weapon. I was merely, and politely, correcting you. Personal preference is fine. I prefer semi-autos to revolvers, although I have a couple of revolvers that I really enjoy shooting (.44 special, to be exact).

I truly doubt you are too stupid to have one. Being scared of something is often based on a bad experience or lack of experience. Either way, it’s your choice and you are being a responsible gun owner. Thank you for that.


35 posted on 04/24/2012 10:31:00 AM PDT by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
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To: stansblugrassgrl
Someone one got really sloppy.

Clearly. But I will reiterate what ie said on a number of gun safety threads: The key to never having a gun accident is to assume that you are still capable of one. One of the things that ticks me off about some gun folk is that they get cocky. Especially after years and years of safely handling firearms, folks have a tendency to believe that it can't happen to them. They're too careful. Their safe practices are too ingrained. Only somebody that's "stupid" can have an accident. To me... That's a dangerous attitude. Once you think yourself incapable of a mistake you're well along the road to finding out how wrong you are. The rules of gun handling are there because we're -all- capable of mistakes. That's why there's more than one rule, and you have to violate all of them at the same time to hurt somebody.

36 posted on 04/24/2012 10:35:09 AM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: 03A3

I love the 1911 platform for competition and even home defense. I just would not carry one out of preference. I have other firepower options that are just as easy to carry and have much greater firepower.


37 posted on 04/24/2012 10:42:00 AM PDT by DarthVader (Politicians govern out of self interest, Statesmen govern for a Vision greater than themselves)
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To: Ramius

Excellent point. We went shooting with a guy with a guy who had been shooting for 50 years. He asked if I wanted to shoot his .45. He had the barrel pointing at my head and his finger was on the trigger. I could actually s see the round in the chamber. It shocked the you know what out of me. He saw nothing wrong with his gun handling. We made some excuses about having to go and never shot with the man again.


38 posted on 04/24/2012 10:47:42 AM PDT by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
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To: stansblugrassgrl

Actually... You’re the one making the error. The .45 is called the “.45 automatic” and “ACP” stands for Automatic Colt Pistol. Nobody calls it the 1911 “semi-auto”.

The distinction between full and semi auto are about the type of weapon, but the name of the pistol is still just “automatic”. It is needlessly trivial to insist on the semi designation for every auto loading pistol. It refers to the way the mechanism self-loads with every shot. All self-loading pistols are commonly referred to as “autos”.


39 posted on 04/24/2012 10:48:40 AM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: stansblugrassgrl

Heh... Yah, I’ve been out around guys like that too. And yes... I find excuses to not go shooting with them again. The funny thing is that if you ask them, they’ll quote the rules perfectly and they’ll insist that they practice them without fail. (sigh).


40 posted on 04/24/2012 10:51:48 AM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: Ramius

Ok. I’ll concede the semantics (my apologies, Mr. K). I make the distinction because so many people do not understand the difference. I recall being in a class at Gunsite and hearing Jeff Cooper make a similar distinction. The non-gun people think that an “automatic” is a machine pistol, not a semi-auto loader.

Just like the difference between a magazine and a clip.


41 posted on 04/24/2012 10:55:32 AM PDT by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
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To: DarthVader

When the Glocks first came out I said I would never buy one because I wanted a manual safety. Now I would only buy a pistol with the Glock type of safety.


42 posted on 04/24/2012 11:03:14 AM PDT by USAF80
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To: stansblugrassgrl

Roger that. :-)

You went to Gunsite and met Jeff Cooper? Ooh... Color me jealous. :-)


43 posted on 04/24/2012 11:05:06 AM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: Ramius

Yes. He was running around the ranch on a quad. His health was declining. I was part of an all women’s shooting class. 3 days of tactical shooting. He decided to teach part of our class. It was very cool. I got to shake his hand before he jumped back on the quad and took off.


44 posted on 04/24/2012 11:20:41 AM PDT by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
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To: DarthVader

No other platform feels the same thumbs forward. I will take half the capacity just to have .45ACP.


45 posted on 04/24/2012 11:28:14 AM PDT by 03A3
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To: USAF80

No revolvers are not as unsafe, due to several factors

1) mental - given that the pistol revolves, people don’t tend to “count” on a round not being in the action.

2) Most revolvers have a fairly high trigger pull

3) The added width of the revolver means there is a bit easier grab from cover around the grip, and the grip/trigger combo tends to be more ergonomic


46 posted on 04/24/2012 12:03:41 PM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: USAF80

I love my Glocks for their reliability, toughness, functionality and outright awesome firepower. They are a good choice and they have a model for nearly every type of shooter. I have both their big-bore heavies in full sized frames. The Glock 21SF in .45 ACP (13+1 rounds)and the 1911 full sized Model 20 chambered in 10-mm Auto(15+1 rounds. This pistol with Buffalo Bore and +P ammo is outright scary). I call it my Glock Desert Eagle.


47 posted on 04/24/2012 12:10:17 PM PDT by DarthVader (Politicians govern out of self interest, Statesmen govern for a Vision greater than themselves)
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To: Pollster1

Every weapon *should* be treated as loaded.

However, how can a loaded chamber indicator be a bad thing?

I never consider a gun “safe”.

So from the logic of every gun is loaded, why do you need a safety?

Hey, if you want such a weapon fine, but I got taught old school from hunting.
We never walked through the woods with safety off.
We practiced when we saw our target to safety off, then fire, in one motion.
We shook our heads when other people were shout accidentially because idiots were crossing fences or whatnot and accidentily discharged a firearm.

This is life/death. You need a fail-safe. That is (1) Actions/Behavior (2) Hardware

Actions/behavior are not enough...people are prone to make mistakes. Then bad things happen.

This is why I advocate

0) A gun is always loaded, even when it’s not. Don’t point it at things you don’t want to shoot. Don’t dry snap. It’s not a toy. it’s a deadly weapon.
1) Have a REAL safety, and it’s always on unless you are about to shoot
2) Practice at the range disengaging the safety, firing (x number of rounds) and then resafey.
3) If you carry concealed, practice drawing from carry, turning safety off, shooting, safety on, and returning to cover. (the last is least important)
4) You need to practice AT LEAST once a month, for at least an hour. get to where “muscle memory” is working with your safety/shooting action


48 posted on 04/24/2012 12:14:51 PM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: USAF80

I run into glock fanactics all the time.

They are fine for open carry, but concealed is *crazy*.

There is a BIG difference between open and concealed. Concealed you can’t gaurantee your draw motion/grab. Which means grip safeties/trigger safeties are not operating as real safeties anymore.

Not to mention the folks who carried glock for years 24x365 who manage to shoot themselves in a moment of brain fart. I believe there is a wealth of youtube material proving that.


49 posted on 04/24/2012 12:22:09 PM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: BereanBrain

I shoot daily, at least a half hour. At least for how I use weapons, a safety is not needed. When hunting, I do not have a round in the chamber. We approach this differently achieve the same results in terms of safety - neither of us will shoot ourselves or another person by accident if we trip while carrying.


50 posted on 04/24/2012 12:24:33 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Can we afford as much government as welfare-addicted voters demand?)
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