Skip to comments.Va. couple accidentally shot at gun safety class...(a 45 no less.)
Posted on 04/24/2012 7:29:03 AM PDT by AngelesCrestHighwayEdited on 04/24/2012 7:33:24 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Ok. I’ll concede the semantics (my apologies, Mr. K). I make the distinction because so many people do not understand the difference. I recall being in a class at Gunsite and hearing Jeff Cooper make a similar distinction. The non-gun people think that an “automatic” is a machine pistol, not a semi-auto loader.
Just like the difference between a magazine and a clip.
When the Glocks first came out I said I would never buy one because I wanted a manual safety. Now I would only buy a pistol with the Glock type of safety.
Roger that. :-)
You went to Gunsite and met Jeff Cooper? Ooh... Color me jealous. :-)
Yes. He was running around the ranch on a quad. His health was declining. I was part of an all women’s shooting class. 3 days of tactical shooting. He decided to teach part of our class. It was very cool. I got to shake his hand before he jumped back on the quad and took off.
No other platform feels the same thumbs forward. I will take half the capacity just to have .45ACP.
No revolvers are not as unsafe, due to several factors
1) mental - given that the pistol revolves, people don’t tend to “count” on a round not being in the action.
2) Most revolvers have a fairly high trigger pull
3) The added width of the revolver means there is a bit easier grab from cover around the grip, and the grip/trigger combo tends to be more ergonomic
I love my Glocks for their reliability, toughness, functionality and outright awesome firepower. They are a good choice and they have a model for nearly every type of shooter. I have both their big-bore heavies in full sized frames. The Glock 21SF in .45 ACP (13+1 rounds)and the 1911 full sized Model 20 chambered in 10-mm Auto(15+1 rounds. This pistol with Buffalo Bore and +P ammo is outright scary). I call it my Glock Desert Eagle.
Every weapon *should* be treated as loaded.
However, how can a loaded chamber indicator be a bad thing?
I never consider a gun “safe”.
So from the logic of every gun is loaded, why do you need a safety?
Hey, if you want such a weapon fine, but I got taught old school from hunting.
We never walked through the woods with safety off.
We practiced when we saw our target to safety off, then fire, in one motion.
We shook our heads when other people were shout accidentially because idiots were crossing fences or whatnot and accidentily discharged a firearm.
This is life/death. You need a fail-safe. That is (1) Actions/Behavior (2) Hardware
Actions/behavior are not enough...people are prone to make mistakes. Then bad things happen.
This is why I advocate
0) A gun is always loaded, even when it’s not. Don’t point it at things you don’t want to shoot. Don’t dry snap. It’s not a toy. it’s a deadly weapon.
1) Have a REAL safety, and it’s always on unless you are about to shoot
2) Practice at the range disengaging the safety, firing (x number of rounds) and then resafey.
3) If you carry concealed, practice drawing from carry, turning safety off, shooting, safety on, and returning to cover. (the last is least important)
4) You need to practice AT LEAST once a month, for at least an hour. get to where “muscle memory” is working with your safety/shooting action
I run into glock fanactics all the time.
They are fine for open carry, but concealed is *crazy*.
There is a BIG difference between open and concealed. Concealed you can’t gaurantee your draw motion/grab. Which means grip safeties/trigger safeties are not operating as real safeties anymore.
Not to mention the folks who carried glock for years 24x365 who manage to shoot themselves in a moment of brain fart. I believe there is a wealth of youtube material proving that.
I shoot daily, at least a half hour. At least for how I use weapons, a safety is not needed. When hunting, I do not have a round in the chamber. We approach this differently achieve the same results in terms of safety - neither of us will shoot ourselves or another person by accident if we trip while carrying.
You can put a New York (8 lb trigger) for that revovler feel. If I rack it I know I have one in the chamber.
Will a revolver fire if someone has a life or death grip around the cylinder?
don’t get me wrong. I am not a revolver fan. They are too bulky for concealed carry, and in these days where the bad guys carry SA, you are outgunned.
A granny recently defended herself against attack - she had 10 rounds fired and all 10 hit her truck (but not her). she fired back, wounding the attacker. She stated she never left home without her gun.
Moral of the story is as follows
the BEST gun is one you always carry.
you should be adept with your gun (practice, practice).
Keep your wits about you
We can argue all day long about the right gun, but practice and carry are more important than type and brand.
As far as a revolver firing with a grip on the revolver, if you are in a hand/to/hand situation, the bigger problem is loosing control of your gun. Whether or not you can fire is the secondary issue.
My instructor said to create space between you and the attacker, then draw.
I think this is wise.
Give the guy a break. Back in the day, when I was much younger, every gun owner I knew(and I knew a lot of them)referred to the 1911 type firearms as "automatics". They all knew they were semis but we all used the term automatic.
We were well aware of the difference between full auto and semi-auto.
Perhaps Mr. K grew up in the same atmosphere. I STILL refer to semis(pistols, not rifles) as automatics when discussing firearms.
BTW, Mr. K, I also prefer revolvers but for different reasons than yours.
Both of you have a good day.
Depends on the person's strength. Plus if a guy is close enough to grab your gun he can get a grip on the semi and push back slightly on the slide and keep it from firing. I learned that trick back in the day from my Uncle, who was a captain of Marines in WWII.
You should never let a perp get that close to you before drawing your weapon. Any person with even a little training can disarm you if you let them in range regardless of what type of weapon you are using.
It seems like this happened in the Zimmerman/Trayvon incident. Sometimes you just get bum rushed.
I never use the safety. I don't carry single-action autos with a round in the chamber, nor do I have a round in the chamber of my rifle while I'm moving through the woods. It only takes microseconds to chamber a round and I can do it while the gun is coming up to my eye. I just don't think it sacrifices enough time to make the risk of cocked-and-locked worth it. I do carry my double-action Sig P220 with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. There is no safety, so it is in those respects very much like carrying a revolver.
Thank you- I said nothing against automatics (yes SEMI-automatics) but I just stated my preference
I just don’t feel comfortable with a gun that is cocked and loaded and ready to fire again with another pull on the trigger, after you just fired it once. It’s just me. And I can put 8 shots in a cardpoard shadow head at 20 paces...
Let me try another way...
You can shoot a revolver and then put it right into your holster... You can’t do that with a semi-auto, unless you want to shoot yourself somewhere you probably won’t enjoy.
You have to stop what you’re doing, ease the thingamijigger back, remove the clip, make sure the loaded round pops out, check down the barrel to make sure it’s clear...
I have seen one-too many learners on the range shoot a semi-auto once, get scared at the recoil, and then turn sideways to hand a fully-ready to shoot semi-auto to someone else WITH their finger uncomfortably close to the trigger and/or the person they are handing it to freaking out and grabbing it to push it back downrange and almost jarring the trigger themselves.
I think they are a work of machining and engineering beauty - I am just too chicken to own one.
P.S. which is exactly what happened in this story