Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Tomorrow, Retire Dick Lugar
Red State ^ | 5/7/2012 | Erick Erickson

Posted on 05/07/2012 4:52:57 AM PDT by IbJensen

I really do adore Peggy Noonan. I respect her opinion and I love her writing. I take issue with her support of Richard Lugar, however.

Peggy Noonan writes that Indiana should “save the old guy. He has value.” She also says Washington needs grown ups and “we need mature folk involved in our governance, people for whom not everything is new.”

With respect, Mr. Lugar has no more value. He and his cohorts have given all the value to China.

Richard Lugar has been in Washington since January of 1977. I was one. The federal debt was approximately $650 billion. The federal debt now surpasses $15 trillion. And you know what? The grown ups did it. The grown ups, the mature folks, the adults in the room were the ones who did it. Richard Lugar was complicit in this catastrophic balance sheet. He rarely stood in the way of an increase in debt, an increase in spending, a bridge to nowhere, and a future to bankruptcy.

While Richard Lugar was joining the other grown ups in raiding the treasury for pet projects, Richard Mourdock was first in the private sector, then became Indiana’s State Treasurer. He fought the Obama Administration’s GM bankruptcy. He fought the Obama Administration on Obamacare. He helped Indiana balance its books.

The two men are both adults. Richard Mourdock’s parents are both World War II veterans. Yes, his father and his mother. He knows what sacrifice is like. He knows what hard work is like. And he knows that just as his parents quite literally fought for a better world, he must too.

In Washington, “adult” is the term of art for the men and women who reach across the aisle. They cut deals. They save face. They make government work. In their zeal to make government work, the perverse reverse has happened. We now work for the government. We sustain the leviathan. Our children’s children’s children will pay off the debt Richard Lugar helped incur.

I’d prefer it if we stopped sending his ilk to Washington to keep incurring debts for my children and grand children in the name of being grown up.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: getlugarout; hoosierhoople; mealymouth; rino
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-53 next last
... “save the old guy. He has value.” ...

Lugar has had very little value since he was elected 36 years ago. Peggy's scribblings in the WSJ should all be looked at askance after this gem.

Current Indiana State Treasurer Richard Mourdock will defeat Richard Lugar, Obama’s favorite Republican, on May 8 and go on to do a great job of representing the Hoosier state as their Senator. Mourdock is a principled conservative with a bright future ahead of him. There are several reasons Indiana voters should cast their ballots for Mourdock over Washington, D.C. insider and career politican Dick Lugar.

Let’s start with one of our most basic rights – the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. Are you aware that Dick Lugar has an ”F” rating with both the NRA and the Gun Owners of America? Lugar marches in lockstep with his idol Obama on the issue of gun control. In fact, he was the ONLY Republican to support the global UN small arms treaty, which would allow foreign countries to dictate gun laws to Americans.

Yet he opposes border control and was a co-sponsor of the Dream Act which would illegal immigrants amnesty and citizenship. I am sure that Lugar’s lefty pals at the New York Times and the United Nations are downright giddy over the thought of simultaneously disarming our law abiding citizens and opening our borders to all who want to come here and cause our country harm. But I somehow do not think Indiana Republicans share Lugar’s liberal viewpoints on those issues.

Unlike Lugar, Richard Mourdock actually lives in Indiana. So he is very much in tune with the wishes of his fellow Hoosiers on these vital issues. In fact, Mourdock has been wholeheartedly endorsed by both the NRA and illegal immigration opponent ALIPAC. And here is what ALIPAC founder William Gheen had to say about Mourdock.

“Indiana voters have a clear choice between Richard Mourdock, who will fight to protect American jobs, taxpayer resources, and lives from illegal immigration, and Richard Lugar, who has fought to support the interests of illegal immigrants over American citizens,” said William Gheen, President of ALIPAC.

Indiana Republicans tend to be fiscal conservatives who care deeply about the direction that their country is headed. Career politicians like Lugar simply do not understand that the days of ”tax and spend” are over. Lugar lives in that ”Washington D.C. bubble” where politicians are treated like kings and hard earned taxpayer money is thrown around like monopoly money.

The American Conservative Union was founded in 1964 and has a nearly 50 year track record of diligently representing Americans who are concerned with economic growth through lower taxes and reduced government spending. For decades, their congressional ratings have been the definitive guide when it comes to determining where Members of Congress stand on conservative issues. We are talking about some serious long term proven credibilty here. Shall we see what they have to say about the two candidates?

ACU Chairman Al Cardenas issued the following statement: “Richard Mourdock is the clear conservative choice in the Indiana Republican Primary May 8. His record as a successful businessman and as State Treasurer shows that he will bring a needed understanding of free enterprise and sound fiscal policies to the Senate. As Treasurer, Richard Mourdock earned over $1 million in investment income for taxpayers and returned 10% of his budget back to the Treasury each year.

The incumbent, Senator Lugar, has frequently opposed conservatives on key issues in the Senate, such as earmark reform while supporting the bailouts of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac against a majority of Republicans. Senator Lugar opposed efforts by the late House Foreign Affairs Chairman Henry Hyde to support reforms at the United Nations and is also the lead sponsor of the Law of the Sea Treaty, which President Ronald Reagan opposed as a threat to U.S. sovereignty.”

Richard Mourdock was elected Indiana’s State Treasurer in November 2006 and was re-elected in 2010, leading the Republican ticket with over 62% of the vote. Obviously he is a strong candidate or he would not have been re-elected by such a high margin by the people of Indiana. Mourdock has also been endorsed by such well known conservatives as Redstate’s Erick Erickson, FreedomWorks CEO Matt Kibbe, Sarah Palin, Rick Santorum, Herman Cain and Mark Levin.

Lugar eagerly appeared in a campaign television advertisement for Obama during the 2008 presidential election, then went on to enthusiastically serve as a co-chair for Obama’s inaugural committee. Lugar is widely known as ”Obama’s favorite Republican. That is just not the type of title that an Indiana Republican should aspire to.

Indiana voters are faced with a clear choice this election period. They can either vote for a career politician like Lugar who doesn’t even live in their state, or they can vote for a principled conservative with a bright national future like Richard Mourdock.

1 posted on 05/07/2012 4:53:08 AM PDT by IbJensen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: IbJensen

Peggy is such the RINO....


2 posted on 05/07/2012 4:58:30 AM PDT by rightwingextremist1776
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen

He’s an sob...I can’t wait to see the last of him.


3 posted on 05/07/2012 4:59:28 AM PDT by nuconvert ( Khomeini promised change too // Hail, Chairman O)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rightwingextremist1776
Peggy Sue, the valley girl that moved to DC.

RINO is not even close, more akin to a left of center demonRAT that once worked for a pubbie, 30 years ago.

4 posted on 05/07/2012 5:05:11 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages, start today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: rightwingextremist1776

THIS is where Conservatives STAND!

Throw Lugar OUT!

Vote Mourdock!


5 posted on 05/07/2012 5:07:46 AM PDT by G Larry (Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

Lugar should have elected not to run again. He’s no Chuck Grassley...


6 posted on 05/07/2012 5:08:10 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen
....“save the old guy. He has value.”

The old guy has been living on our dime for the past thirty-six years and what of value have we received in return? Time for Lugar to be retired.

7 posted on 05/07/2012 5:08:36 AM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen
She also says Washington needs grown ups and “we need mature folk involved in our governance, people for whom not everything is new.”

Well, I'm sure Mourdock is a "grown up."

What she really means is "we need GOP-E stooges who will continue to play the same old game no matter what."

Part of the problem, lady, you're part of the problem. Retire these people, or take their Party away from them. Those are really the only two choices at this point. Continuing to play their game is a sure-fire losing proposition.

8 posted on 05/07/2012 5:09:06 AM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (Anybody but Obama and Romney)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen

Too bad he can’t take Hatch with him.


9 posted on 05/07/2012 5:11:08 AM PDT by Venturer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rightwingextremist1776
What people forget is that Lugar did what Reagan wanted, what Bush wanted, what Bush II wanted ~

That whole crowd put entirely too much store in the Democrat complaint that unless the federales did something ~ always spend more money ~ women and chillun' would fester and die.

That was the message behind the "safety net" concept.

NOT ONCE did any of these guys attempt to control federal spending.

They still don't.

Yes, women and chillun' will fester and die ~ but they'll do so anyway. All men die ~ that's the rule.

10 posted on 05/07/2012 5:13:17 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen

He is SO old and SUCH a RINO that I was surprised Lugar was not put up as our Presidential candidate in the spirit of the “the next old guy” and go on to be as successful as Dole or McCain.


11 posted on 05/07/2012 5:13:54 AM PDT by SERKIT ("Blazing Saddles" explains it all.......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen

The only election I’m voting in tomorrow is Mourdock and Lugar.

We get a double bonus this time. One less RINO and Obama loses his buddy.


12 posted on 05/07/2012 5:18:37 AM PDT by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rummyfan
In reality, as the Republican with the most seniority in the Senate Lugar is probably worth several billion dollars more to the residents of Indiana than another Senator with less seniority.

Although Lugar is long past his prime, his "staff" can take care of garnering the goodies seniority brings with it. There's more than one drooler in Congress ~ and who can forget when they wheeled Teddy Kennedy in to vote, brain pan in full view ~ there was nothing there as we all suspected ~ but look at what he got for Massachusetts ~ HUGE grants to the biggest state industry ~ higher ed!

Jesse Helms lived past his prime, as did John Stennis, and then there was the Fritz Hollings and Strom Thurmond ~ they sucked down hundreds of billions for South Carolina. Without their seniority the place'd been UNLIVABLE!

Never imagine that a ruling party senator with top seniority isn't worth something to the voters in his state.

13 posted on 05/07/2012 5:19:27 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: rightwingextremist1776

Lugar was such a sellout when he took over the Foreign Relations committed when Jesse Helms retired. I remember watching him during the John Bolton hearings. He was complicit with the the democrats at every turn. Lugar is a liberal. Please, Indiana, make Richard Lugar a lame-duck tomorrow. He can screw us through the end of the year and then he’ll be gone one way or the other.


14 posted on 05/07/2012 5:19:43 AM PDT by cotton1706
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen
I really do adore Peggy Noonan. I respect her opinion and I love her writing.

I really do despise Peggy Noonan. I disdain her opinion and I point and laugh at her writing.

Noonan is an ageing harridan who struggles for relevancy.

15 posted on 05/07/2012 5:21:46 AM PDT by Old Sarge (RIP FReeper Skyraider (1930-2011) - You Are Missed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

I hope you’re voting for Mourdock tomorrow. You know Dick has got to go.


16 posted on 05/07/2012 5:21:59 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (If you like lying Socialist dirtbags, you'll love Slick Willard)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen
I really do adore Peggy Noonan. I respect her opinion and I love her writing.

I don't adore or respect her. She is one of those fools who pushed the ridiculous propoganda in 2008 that Obama was new, fresh, and exciting. Either she believed it herself, and is a fool, or she didn't believe it, and promoted it anyway, and is a liar.

17 posted on 05/07/2012 5:26:28 AM PDT by PGR88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fieldmarshaldj
Really? I'm from Indiana. My folks pioneered the state even when the King of Spain owned it, and that's a long time ago.

Currently I reside in Virginia (with Senator Santorum, Senator Lugar, Senator..... hey, even Kennedy lived here).

So, I vote in Virginia.

But the cold hard facts are that the state "establishment" has worked many decades to get a seniormost senator in place.

Mourdock is asking people to "give it up for Jaysus" so voting for him is not without real cost.

18 posted on 05/07/2012 5:28:18 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: cotton1706
Look, Lugar is a drooler. He has a liberal on his staff. What you needed to do was find some reason for him to need to hire replacements. That's what most state establishments do when their drooler senators get out of line.

Sometimes they find "Miss so and so" and she does her thing, the cameras get the picture, and that's the end of that.

19 posted on 05/07/2012 5:30:38 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

You’d better change your flag. You’re still flying Indiana on your page.


20 posted on 05/07/2012 5:31:58 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (If you like lying Socialist dirtbags, you'll love Slick Willard)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: SERKIT

Don’t give em any ideas...


21 posted on 05/07/2012 5:42:08 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Venturer
Too bad he can’t take Hatch with him.

Ain't that the truth. And Alexander.

22 posted on 05/07/2012 5:43:12 AM PDT by Vinnie (A)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Vinnie

Just great. Mourdock beats Lugar in the primary, Lugar runs as an independant and either Lugar or the Democrat win in the general.

Now where have we seen this before?


23 posted on 05/07/2012 5:46:06 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Would you rather eat dog food or cat food? Guess it's Romney 2012.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen

In 2010 we took the House. In 2012 it’s time to take the Senate. Tea Party powers activate! Shape of a RINO swatter!

Get ‘em out of there! RINOs and DemocRATs.

Bring back a Senate that will pass Paul Ryan’s budget and all of the other good bills that have come out of the House!


24 posted on 05/07/2012 5:48:27 AM PDT by TheRhinelander
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fieldmarshaldj

That’s where my mind is ~ it’s always good to keep up with the old home country when you are in exile in a foreign place. BTW, Indiana used to be part of Lee County Virginia!


25 posted on 05/07/2012 6:06:47 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: TheRhinelander

In 2011 we slacked off or the Democrats woke up. 2012 is not 2010 ~ it’s harder this time. We need real candidates, not plastic replicas.


26 posted on 05/07/2012 6:07:52 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen

The “old guy” was quick to jump on Hussein’s bandwagon. Obama was throwing his name around during the ‘08 campaign. Bye Dick....


27 posted on 05/07/2012 6:13:41 AM PDT by jersey117
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EQAndyBuzz

Indiana has a sore loser law.


28 posted on 05/07/2012 6:46:20 AM PDT by Tailback
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

Are you serious? Thurmond and Hollings did bring home the bacon but South Carolina would still be a great place to live even if they had never been in the Senate.


29 posted on 05/07/2012 7:05:52 AM PDT by burghguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen

Tomorrow I vote Lugar out and I write in “Sarah Palin of Alaska” for President.


30 posted on 05/07/2012 8:00:59 AM PDT by Wordkraft (Remember who the Collaborators are.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailback; EQAndyBuzz; muawiyah
Indiana has a sore loser law.

Which means once a candidate loses a party's primary, he can't then file to run for office as an independent in that year's general election. He would have to withdraw from the race today, before the polls open tomorrow unless is is already to late to withdraw from the primary. If Lugar loses tomorrow, he won't be on the ballot in November.

Texas has a similar law. In fact Texas law makes it quite difficult to get on the ballot as an independent. Not only can the person petitioning not have been a candidate for any position in a party primary, but the people signing the petition must be registered voters who did not vote in any party primary in that election cycle. There is not only a requirement for total statewide signatures, but there is also a requirement for minimum numbers of signatures in each state senatorial district, and there is a pretty short time during which signatures can be collected.

31 posted on 05/07/2012 8:12:45 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Tailback

I am assuming then that the lawsuits to overturn it will take place on Wednesday?


32 posted on 05/07/2012 8:33:30 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Would you rather eat dog food or cat food? Guess it's Romney 2012.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative
Every now and then South Carolina gets hit with one humdinger of a hurricane ~ that's why 60% of the population lives in trailers or manufactured housing.

They also have "jobs" and that's where Fritz and Strom in ~ they were both very very very good to South Carolina.

Otherwise it's tarpaper shacks, log cabins and a few people in brick and block.

Don't try to fool me ~ I was there when "Tobacco Road" meant "tobacco road".

33 posted on 05/07/2012 9:05:17 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Vinnie

Senator Alexander is a close enough relative to Evan Bayh’s mother to have met the family at reunions.


34 posted on 05/07/2012 9:22:48 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

If Lugar loses he will promptly run as in independent just as MurCOWski in Alaska. The liberals and establishment of the party do not believe in the primary system unless their socialist dirt bag wins it.


35 posted on 05/07/2012 10:48:59 AM PDT by sarge83
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: sarge83; nuconvert
If Lugar loses he will promptly run as in independent just as MurCOWski in Alaska.

Why don't you read the other comments before you comment? It's already been covered in posts #28 and #31. Indiana has a "sore loser" law. The loser of a primary can't run as an independent.

36 posted on 05/07/2012 3:52:41 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative
Neither #28 nor #31 mention the "Alaska scenario," where someone runs as a write-in. I read your posts and I still have questions, so there was no need to get snippy about it.
37 posted on 05/07/2012 4:46:35 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Cyber Liberty

Yes it does! The law prohibits write-in candidates who lost a primary too. That’s what the nickname “sore loser law” means. It means you can’t lose a primary and run for that office in the general election either on the ballot or as a write-in. Alaska has no “sore loser” law. That’s why MooCowSki was able to mount a write-in campaign.


38 posted on 05/07/2012 6:28:38 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen

Bttt


39 posted on 05/07/2012 6:33:40 PM PDT by novemberslady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

I thought it was Botetourt County, VA that had the old Northwest Territory ?


40 posted on 05/07/2012 6:36:59 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (If you like lying Socialist dirtbags, you'll love Slick Willard)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen

Spot On!


41 posted on 05/07/2012 6:40:15 PM PDT by Rome2000 (Wahingtonians Raus!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fieldmarshaldj
Depends on which period of 'history' and are you talking about the Crown claiming territories or the Virginia House of Burgesses making similar claims ~

One of the difficulties in these claims are the previous Spanish D-marks, or boundaries. Although most folks imagine the Brits claimed the Ohio Valley on the basis of their defeat of the French in the French & Indian War, the French hadn't really made a full claim of anything South of the St. Joseph River. They claimed almost all of what is now Michigan, but the most they had over on the other side of Lake Michigan were a few fellows wandering about stealing furs from Indians.

You had to go all the way up to about Alexandria Minnesota to find the Southern boundary of the line D-Marked by Spain, and that takes off to the NW to 55 degrees North. The idea was France got the watershed of the Hudson Bay but before a boundary could be marked someone had to do a baseline, and that was the baseline. The Russian/Spanish boundary was decided later as having an existence at 54'40" N all the way East to that point at the line drawn NW from Alexandria. The Eastern boundary of Alaska was decided some years later.

So, back to the NW territory ~ the OHio Valley South of the Lakes didn't really get outside of Spanish "authority", if not "Claim" until the UNited States won the Revolutionary War. Spain was our ally. They seemed to give that territory up. VIrginia rustled up some old claims they may have made and also hopped onto MIchigan, and Everything North to the Lakes and West to the Mississippi.

I guess that satisfied the Spanish ~ I've found numerous Lower Midwest counties where the first guy to prove a patent for land was a Spaniard. So I gather they stuck around and waited on civilization to come their way ~ then got their claim to land regularized.

LOts of them ran trading posts for sales to Indians and early pioneers (traders, miners, fur traders, horse breeders, meat packers, etc.).

There was a lot of stuff going on in that area before Dan Boone cut the Wilderness Trail.

NOw, when did all of that get appeneded to Lee county? I found one ref a long time ago that described the entire claim, and it was part of the more or less "non functioning fictitious but draw it on a map" Lee County. It must have itself been pulled out of Botetourt, or vice versa, but the OLD NORTHWEST TERRITORY never existed as any sort of entity until the USA sent out surveyors to run a couple of Meridians. One of them runs just East Champain Illinois through the town of Arcola ~ which, coincidentally, looks to have been a very old townsite in the middle of a 1000 arpent site that'd already been surveyed before American surveyors got there ~ they were able to meld it into the new survey because it was on the meridian they had put in.

1000 arpents is pretty much the standard size for a Spanish land grant. Dan Boone had one in Missouri in fact.

I think credit for creating "the Northwest Territor" has to be given to Americans and not Brits. But you might have more information on that.

The French "colony" at New Orleans is a special case. It passed back and forth from France to Spain several times ~ the locals were not above sailing North on the Mississippi and claiming things. Louis XIV had a sawmill at Louisville in fact ~ they cut hardwood for furniture that Boulle later turned into some of the world's most expensive furniture. Nobody bothered the French there, but their explorations of the area and French settlements like Terre Haute, Vincinnes, Versailles, Henryville and so on don't give much support to the idea that France actually claimed the whole Lower Midwest ~ more like the Spanish tolerated them and it kept out the Brits.

42 posted on 05/07/2012 7:51:19 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

Well, Lee County wasn’t founded until 1793 and the Northwest Territory was organized prior to that in 1787 (and VA relinquished claims in 1782). Botetourt was formed in 1770 and apparently shared that huge territory with Augusta County. This is just a short period of time I’m speaking of, anyway. Obviously, prior to the 1780s, that covers a different discussion. Of course, this was basically just surveyors or politicians drawing lines on a map to far-away places that few or no Whites had been. It would have as much teeth as us putting a claim on Alpha Centauri today.


43 posted on 05/07/2012 8:47:15 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (If you like lying Socialist dirtbags, you'll love Slick Willard)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative

Thanks....There are a lot of versions of the law in the country, and I didn’t know what IN’s version looks like.


44 posted on 05/08/2012 5:17:23 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: fieldmarshaldj
It wasn't exactly "few white people", but rather "few English or French speaking white people". There were a plentitude of fellows from nations in what we can call "The Hapsburg Empire" (which interestingly enough included the Dutch speaking folks in what is now Northern Belgium).

The Hapsburg interests were in the practice of hiring all sorts of fellows from just anywhere to DO STUFF, so they show up, so it's not just Spaniards wandering around out there.

The landscape is littered with Spanish mills, mines, cabins, special breeds of animals ~ all leftover from the 1500s and 1600s ~ just not visible to us because we never bothered to look ~ our English language text books having failed to tip us off!

Now about how things get named Botetourt/Lee/Augusta ~ long before those rather large territories got identified as such on an official map approved by a governing body they were KNOWN to somebody and you can run into references to them apparently out of synch. I don't worry about it too much, particularly since we all use CURRENT nomenclature to discuss past locations of interest.

Currently I'm on the track of the maps made by Jefferson's father ~ that guy went everywhere! Jefferson came up with his own plans for dividing up what we know as THE OLD NORTHWEST as well as the Central South ~ some of those lines in that map are worth examining closely. They all show up later as countylines or even some parts of state lines. All of that work had to have been done in the Colonial period ~ when the Brits were supposedly restricting movement into new territories and the Spanish were a threat.

So, were they older Spanish surveys? It's pretty obvious Dan Boone had access to such materials, so where are they?

45 posted on 05/08/2012 5:28:50 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
"It wasn't exactly "few white people", but rather "few English or French speaking white people"."

Effectively what I meant.

"The landscape is littered with Spanish mills, mines, cabins, special breeds of animals ~ all leftover from the 1500s and 1600s ~ just not visible to us because we never bothered to look ~ our English language text books having failed to tip us off!"

I don't know how many of those Spanish items were present within those areas we were discussing (i.e. OH, IN, etc). Obviously more out west or near coastal areas or rivers.

"Currently I'm on the track of the maps made by Jefferson's father ~ that guy went everywhere! Jefferson came up with his own plans for dividing up what we know as THE OLD NORTHWEST as well as the Central South ~ some of those lines in that map are worth examining closely. They all show up later as countylines or even some parts of state lines. All of that work had to have been done in the Colonial period ~ when the Brits were supposedly restricting movement into new territories and the Spanish were a threat."

"So, were they older Spanish surveys? It's pretty obvious Dan Boone had access to such materials, so where are they?"

The documents ? I don't know. Probably in museums if they exist. I believe that Jefferson or his contemporaries wanted everything nice and neatly drawn up on the surveys, no doubt. They likely would've done so (if they didn't) in dividing up such townships or other such measures clear to the Pacific. Interesting to note, though, that those townships ultimately didn't quite take in the South as they ended up doing in places like, say, IL, IN, MI, WI where almost everything is neatly divided into squares.

46 posted on 05/08/2012 6:18:38 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (If you like lying Socialist dirtbags, you'll love Slick Willard)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: fieldmarshaldj
The Souf' had plantations ~ roughly the same concept as a Spanish land grant but bigger, and not neatly laid out like 1000 arpents.

I was looking at that map on FR yesterday that showed the percentage of Catholics, by county, throughout the country. It's fairly instructive ~ but there are non-urban pockets of Catholics in areas South of the Ohio ~ could be older Spanish sponsored areas of settlement.

Again, back in the 1500/1600 period you could dump a lot of people into an area of the country and they'd simply be invisible to us today because there were no defined urban areas ~ not even villages. Every now and then somebody will dig down 6 inches and find one of those segmented pieces from a classic Spanish grinding wheel ~ and they'll set it up at the end of their driveway. Next time I'm in Indiana I'm going to do some checking into a piece of land across from my great aunt's house where there were reported such segments ~ but currently they are covered with dirt or my aunt hauled them to the barn to buttress the foundation. Her home is so old her husband's ancestor who settled there had to wait years for government to show up to register his property. His wife was Iroquois ~ so it's some time in the 1700s.

Just a guess those grinding facilities were set up to do the hard labor of breaking ore AND grinding corn to make mash to distill into alcohol ~ the magic medicine of its day.

47 posted on 05/08/2012 8:04:50 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative

Pardon me all to hell paleo didn’t mean to get your panties in a wad so early in the day.


48 posted on 05/08/2012 8:27:10 AM PDT by sarge83
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: IbJensen
I really do adore Peggy Noonan. I respect her opinion and I love her writing. I take issue with her support of Richard Lugar, however.

Whew... Whatever happened to this guy Erickson? He's writing like a tired, go-along, get-along establishment flak.
Where's the fire?

Noonan is a washed up old maid who talks like she's balancing a plate on her head and drinks tea with her pinky - - and nose - - in the air as she chats the other Manhattan courtesans. It is absolutely no surprise that she supports the same GOP candidates her Democrat friends imply they could stomach.

Erickson says, "I take issue with her support of Richard Lugar, however."?? What a squish.

49 posted on 05/08/2012 8:54:49 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative

He can’t run as an independent if he loses the GOP primary, but could he run as a Democrat if the rat party decided he was their best chance?
(I’m certain Lugar would be agreeable.)


50 posted on 05/08/2012 9:15:39 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-53 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson