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Hamels' suspension 'too light,' says Leyland
CSN Philly ^ | May 8, 2012, 12:00 pm | Staff

Posted on 05/09/2012 9:53:05 AM PDT by TBP

If there's anyone who should be familiar with the kind of throwback, old-school baseball Cole Hamels discussed after intentionally hitting Nationals rookie Bryce Harper with a pitch Sunday night, it's Tigers manager Jim Leyland.

Leyland, a baseball lifer, has managed in 3,203 games since 1986 -- when Hamels was just 3. But even Leyland's joining the chorus of critics displeased by Hamels' actions.

During his regular pregame radio show Monday night, he characterized Hamels' five-game suspension as being "way too light," and, according to MLB.com, suggested 15 games would have been more appropriate.

(Excerpt) Read more at csnphilly.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: baseball; chat; hamels; leyland; mlb; sports
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To: Tallguy

It was clocked at 94mph. If that was off-speed, I would hate to see his heater.


51 posted on 05/09/2012 10:49:34 AM PDT by jjsheridan5
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To: TBP

Rizzo’s tirade on the Hamels subject may, in the league’s view, have been threatening an escalation. Imagine Strassberg, Cliff Lee & Halladay suddenly going after eachother’s hitters?

Besides, Rizzo’s comments that he hadn’t seen anything so bad in “his 30 years in baseball” shows he doesn’t pay much attention. Just plain stupid. I understand he was upset to see his young star plunked. I get that.


52 posted on 05/09/2012 10:52:12 AM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: TBP

I’ve been a rabid Phillies fan since the days of Gene Mauch and Richie Allen smacking em over the Coca Cola sign up at 22nd and Lehigh. I have mixed feelings about this. Cole Hamels is a top lefthander whose control is good enough to not hit someone in the head. Still, hitting someone in the body can cause injury, and even a good pitcher can be wild. Also, when the Nationals pitcher drilled Hamels, was there not a possibility of injury? Now, this has been a part of the game since day one. Gibson, Drysdale and Marichal were known to throw at hitters, but it was accepted then. Players from the 60s also didn’t bat wearing body armor. Still, I don’t like the idea of intentionally trying to hit someone with a pitch. Also, when Ray Chapman was killed by Carl Mays and Zimmer got beaned, players wore their caps when batting.


53 posted on 05/09/2012 10:54:47 AM PDT by Freestate316
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To: jjsheridan5

He’ll throw his curve in the dirt so far from the plate it will bounce up and get the batter right in the chin. I think he gets nerves away from nats park.

Freegards


54 posted on 05/09/2012 10:55:24 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: jjsheridan5
It was clocked at 94mph. If that was off-speed, I would hate to see his heater.

Really? I stand corrected then. Any 94 mph pitch can injure.

Seemed like the pitch had a bit of movement on it. Like he took something off it. I'll look at the tape again.

55 posted on 05/09/2012 10:56:42 AM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: Ransomed

If he tried to hit someone with a curveball, standing in the batter’s box would probably be the safest place in the park.


56 posted on 05/09/2012 10:58:05 AM PDT by jjsheridan5
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To: Tallguy

You can hear it crack when it hits Harper’s back, when I saw it I thought it must have hit his tail bone, especially when he stretches right after.

Freegards


57 posted on 05/09/2012 11:01:23 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: SnakeDoctor

I might half-way agree you have a point if we’re only talking about the National League, where Pitchers are Hitters. But this is about Detroit, an AL team.


58 posted on 05/09/2012 11:03:24 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: jjsheridan5

When he is on with that thing it is something to watch, though. From 100 to 80 makes people look silly, as long as it isn’t boucing ten feet from home.

Freegards


59 posted on 05/09/2012 11:04:35 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: justice14

You’re being too literal.

“Headhunting” doesn’t mean hitting people in the head any more than “beanball” does (”bean” refers to the head). Both refer to hitting a batter with a pitch. Only difference is “headhunting” is intentional, and a “beanball” can be intentional or accidental.

Both terms have changed from their literal meaning. Corporate “headhunters” don’t actually bring the heads of recruits, either.

SnakeDoc


60 posted on 05/09/2012 11:07:06 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens, Justified)
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To: Ransomed

I agree. Against good HRod, hitters are helpless. I just don’t understand why he throws any breaking stuff with less than two strikes (or with the tying run on base). If they can’t hit 100+, throw 100+ until they can. Some of that has to be on Ramos/Flores, as well.


61 posted on 05/09/2012 11:08:58 AM PDT by jjsheridan5
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To: Cyber Liberty

It still works in the AL — though not quite as well. The DH is a travesty.

Still, in the AL, you hit their guy — they hit yours ... and they’ll probably aim for your best player. I suspect Miguel Cabrera would let Hamels hear about it if he took a fastball to the ribs because Hamels was unjustifiably headhunting. The punishment is once-removed ... but its still there.

SnakeDoc


62 posted on 05/09/2012 11:19:08 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens, Justified)
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To: Ransomed

Saw the replay just once at the health club without sound, so I couldn’t hear the ball strike Harper. Also didn’t recall seeing the pitch-tracker where the speed is indicated. Might not have been in the replay frame.

The ball did seem to have some ‘movement’ which was why I mistook it for NOT being a fastball.

Admitting to intentionally hitting a batter with a 94 mph fastball is tacitly admitting “intent to injure.” I would think that the suspension is ‘light’ given that set of circumstances.

There are a few callers in Philly (WIP sportstalk) who are attempting to tie Hamels’ behavior to his contract negotiations. They seem to think that he’s somehow trying to get traded/released. I find that far-fetched.


63 posted on 05/09/2012 11:21:43 AM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: B Knotts
Is baseball now going to suspend the pitcher every time they plonk a guy?

If the pitcher indicates that they did it on purpose, yes they will suspend every time.

64 posted on 05/09/2012 11:22:57 AM PDT by houeto (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Kazan
A players don't charge the mound unless he is a head case

Or they want to get their a$$ kicked.


65 posted on 05/09/2012 11:25:26 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: TBP

I agree with Leyland simply because it is unequal punishment compared to a 5-game suspension to a position player.

Hamels just misses out on the post-game beers with his buddies in the clubhouse for a few days.


66 posted on 05/09/2012 11:42:00 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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67 posted on 05/09/2012 11:55:44 AM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93)
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To: TBP

Agree, plus, there’s this aspect to the particular offense:

This wasn’t just a little chin-music “message pitch” such as by blooping the ball *behind* the batter. This was a NINETY-M.P.H. FASTBALL aimed right at an opponent.

Cheap pu**y tactics. At least Hamels didn’t lie about it, but he needs to lose five STARTS, not just five “games.”


68 posted on 05/09/2012 12:10:44 PM PDT by pogo101
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To: Freestate316
Gibson, Drysdale and Marichal were known to throw at hitters, but it was accepted then.

Yes, and they got hit in return. End of incident.

69 posted on 05/09/2012 12:15:08 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Hot Tabasco

I agree.


70 posted on 05/09/2012 12:16:52 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: TBP

Get real. The brushback pitch, chin-music, close shave, purpose pitch has been a part of baseball since the 1800’s. It’s used for intimidation, retaliation and to send a message.

This World Class Douchebag Harper punk came up to the bigs with a cocky-attitude and a big mouth. He blew a kiss at a minor league pitcher that he hit a homerun off of. No class and ZERO respect for the game.

I support Cole Hammels. This Harper punk would be picking up his teeth if he had to face Don Drysdale, Bob Gibson or Sal “The Barber” Maglie. He disrespects the game and needs to learn a lesson. The game is bigger than him and he needs to treat it - and the competitors on the field - with much more respect.

This pansy-ass PC wimpy crap sickens me. Drysdale knocked Mays down with chin music in every game he faced him in. Juan Marichal of the Giants routinely sent Dodgers batters to the deck to protect their coconuts. That’s old-school baseball. You didn’t see cocky punks hot-dogging it and blowing kisses to the pitchers then.

I hope Harper gets a tough first tour of the big leagues with plenty of baseballs to the ribs and fastballs aimed at his gigantic helmeted ego.

Wait until the little pussy has to play in Philly. Must see TV.


71 posted on 05/09/2012 12:26:05 PM PDT by Buckeye Battle Cry (Not Romney - Not ever!)
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To: Tallguy
The ball did seem to have some ‘movement’ which was why I mistook it for NOT being a fastball.

Probably a two-seamer. They aren't quite as fast as four-seam fastballs, but they move more.

72 posted on 05/09/2012 12:26:26 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: jjsheridan5

Pretty much agree. Throwing two in the dirt just lets the batter know you are going to get the fastball next. But if he has the touch for it, it is a great first pitch, runners on or not.

Freegards


73 posted on 05/09/2012 12:32:02 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Buckeye Battle Cry
This World Class Douchebag Harper punk came up to the bigs with a cocky-attitude and a big mouth.

Wrong. He has done nothing but hustle, play hard, and play well. Maybe that's what Hamels objected to.

74 posted on 05/09/2012 12:33:56 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Tallguy

I know where many are coming from, I think moving a rookie’s feet around is one thing. Maybe he missed his location, and meant to throw lower. Still, most of the time you see that it’s offspeed change up junk balls, just in case you miss WAAYY up. The danger comes from a rookie or pitcher used to the AL ducking down into balls or throwing their fists up and breaking fingers or faces.

I know many are talking Dodgers for Hamels, I think he is from out there somewhere. Like I said, I actually don’t mind that he admitted it, kind of refreshing. I just don’t think there was a reason for it in the first place with Harper.

Freegards


75 posted on 05/09/2012 12:40:08 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Tallguy

I know where many are coming from, I think moving a rookie’s feet around is one thing. Maybe he missed his location, and meant to throw lower. Still, most of the time you see that it’s offspeed change up junk balls, just in case you miss WAAYY up. The danger comes from a rookie or pitcher used to the AL ducking down into balls or throwing their fists up and breaking fingers or faces.

I know many are talking Dodgers for Hamels, I think he is from out there somewhere. Like I said, I actually don’t mind that he admitted it, kind of refreshing. I just don’t think there was a reason for it in the first place with Harper.

Freegards


76 posted on 05/09/2012 12:40:17 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: TBP

I guess you’ve never seen the interviews and the video of Harper blowing the kiss at the pitcher after taking him deep. His punk-ass reputation is well earned and well established. He was running his mouth in interviews all Spring.

Don’t try to make the little weasel look like Little Lord Fauntleroy. Obviously, somebody gave him a good talking to sometime in the last few weeks. But, the good behavior will not erase the reputation of an arrogant ass over-night.

Hamels message was clear - DO NOT PULL THAT CRAP HERE!

I support it.

I was a fan of Harper until he blew the kiss. That told me all I need to know about this punk.


77 posted on 05/09/2012 1:00:51 PM PDT by Buckeye Battle Cry (Not Romney - Not ever!)
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To: TBP

Are you saying it is A-OK with “a reason” to hit a player intentionally?

Players are thrown at intentionally ALL THE TIME. In some cases pitches are thrown OVER the head and BEHIND players. That can only be done intentionally.

Hamels is in the REAL League. He will bat over 100 times. He made his bed, he will sleep in it.

BTW, Hamels plays with Chase Utley who has been hit by more pitches year in and out than anyone. He had a bone broken in his hand by a pitch inside.


78 posted on 05/09/2012 1:09:05 PM PDT by LeonardFMason
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To: Buckeye Battle Cry
He was running his mouth in interviews all Spring.

No, he wasn't. He's been quite the professional.

The Phillies are angry becaue the Nationals are daring to win what they view as their division. To make it worse, those arrogant, stupid Nationals fans are coming out to support their local team, making it harder for the Phillies fans to invade the park. Just who do these Washington people think they are, anyway?

Well, we'll take care of that. We'll try to take down their new star. Because we're classier than they are.

79 posted on 05/09/2012 1:21:07 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Really? It affected David Wright’s career for a few years, and others have pointed out more serious problems. But, with that said, Hamels did NOT throw at his head, so for me, that was the mitigating circumstance in his favor.


80 posted on 05/09/2012 1:25:31 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Ransomed

Hamels is from San Diego. Ever since the Dodgers squared away their ownership situation there has been talk of Hamels going to LA.

Out of the top 3 on the staff I rate Hamels as my #1 guy. Not because he’s better than Halladay or Lee right now. Just based on what he is now, and where his is as far as career development.

OTOH, I thought he was smarter than this situation seems to suggest.


81 posted on 05/09/2012 1:31:07 PM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: LeonardFMason
BTW, Hamels plays with Chase Utley who has been hit by more pitches year in and out than anyone. He had a bone broken in his hand by a pitch inside.... that was against the Senators, I believe.

There is a brewing rivalry between Washinton & Philly. The good fans of DC are more than a little peeved that Philly fans come down to DC, treating games there almost as home-away-from-homegames. Then you have Jayson Werth running his mouth because he feels the Phillies dissed him during contract negotiations. The Hamels/Harper situation is more gasoline on the fire.

82 posted on 05/09/2012 1:37:01 PM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: Pharmboy

The operative word remains “intentional”.

To my knowledge, David Wright wasn’t sidelined by an intentional beanball ... he was sidelined by a common, everyday hit batsman. Part of the game.

SnakeDoc


83 posted on 05/09/2012 1:46:14 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens, Justified)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Well, whether it was “intentional” or not, we shall never know; some beanballs are, some are not. Cole admitted to an intentional “hit” pitch that was NOT a beanball. An extremely rare occurrence for a pitcher. The reason was that he he wanted to “welcome” Harper to the majors—he was not crowding the plate. It was not horrendous...if he threw at his head, it would have been, IMO.


84 posted on 05/09/2012 1:51:11 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: TBP

You’re a Nats fan. That helps explain everything.


85 posted on 05/09/2012 3:51:52 PM PDT by Buckeye Battle Cry (Not Romney - Not ever!)
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To: Buckeye Battle Cry

I live in Maryland and I do like the Nats, but that’s not the issue. I grew up in New York rooting for the Yankees.

I think Zimmermann should have been suspended too, but not for as long a time (his hit was simply return fire, after all.)

But you cannot condone what Hamels did, and a suspension that doesn’t even cost him a start effectively does that.


86 posted on 05/10/2012 3:13:00 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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