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Arizona high school forfeits championship game rather than face girl opponent
Fox News ^ | 5-10-2012 | Joshua Rhett Miller

Posted on 05/10/2012 1:11:45 PM PDT by servo1969

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To: Dick Vomer; GunRunner; donna; kingu; Flightdeck; Hot Tabasco

Your examples remind me of something from back when I was in college. Now, I’m not a big guy - 5’7”, and back then I probably weighted around 190-200 lbs., most of it muscle because I worked out, but I wasn’t exactly a hulk or anything. Well, there was this girl who lives in my dorm who was one of these sporty types, into athletics, and had the “grrrrrls can do anything a man can do” mentality. She also didn’t like me very much because I’d stumped her in some arguments down in the lobby a few times. So, one evening, she decided she was going to try to embarrass me by wrestling me down and pinning me in front of my friends, which she thought she could do because she took tai kwan do (sp?) as well as playing basketball and lacross. Well, I had her down and pinned, with her fighting with everything she had (she came out of it soaking wet with sweat), in about 15 seconds. I wasn’t even really putting that much effort into it. I finally let her up with the firm admonition to be more careful the next time.

If nothing else, this thread has amply demonstrated that there are a lot of FReepers who don’t understand the first thing about statistics as it relates to human biodiversity.

For instance, we have the guy posting a link to an article about an obviously extreme, extreme, extreme right end of the bell curve female freak of nature, and acting as if this example somehow translates into complete physical gender equality. Needless to say, men who are in a similar position (Olympic weightlifters) still outlift this female by quite a lot.

Nevertheless, the fact of the matter is that while there may be some overlap of the bell curves between men and women in various physical abilities, the male bell curve is still significantly to the right from the female bell curve. In other words, most men will be stronger and faster than most women, even if you can point to some individual example of a woman you knew who could outrun all the guys she knew or who could slam dunk on the dudes she played pickup ball with. The individual example does not negate the statistical truth.

Just look at the Olympics and other top end sports venues. The scores for the men in any particular type of race are still faster than those of the women in commensurate contests. Of course, there is also a reason why, when fire and police departments have to hire more women to meet gender quotas, they inevitably will have to lower the physical standards required for the job.

Sorry folks, but acknowledging gender differences is not “sexism,” nor is it “gender bigotry.” It’s simply acknowledging the way things are.


151 posted on 05/10/2012 7:06:11 PM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (Anybody but Obama and Romney)
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To: Jeff Chandler

They’re not depriving anyone of anything. The girl team won.

<><><><><

Jeff - I believe you are being disingenuous. I cannot for a moment that you believe that a forfeit under these circumstances is equivalent to a win on the field. No athlete ever would.


152 posted on 05/10/2012 7:07:38 PM PDT by dmz
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To: Flightdeck
gender bigots . . . worthless, uneducated hicks.

Nice.

153 posted on 05/10/2012 7:08:08 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline For Sale)
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To: Flightdeck
The SERE trainers added that the entire nation would have to be conditioned to accept combat violence against women.

You're already there.

154 posted on 05/10/2012 7:08:59 PM PDT by donna (The fruits of Feminism: Angry fathers, bitter mothers, fat kids and political correctness.)
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To: Flightdeck
And, in turn, you’ve just revealed yourself as a degenerate piece of shit. Congratulations!

Why? Because I'm smarter than the women I work with?

I didn't realise that intelligence made someone a "degenerate piece of ****."

Though, I might observe that if this is the case, you needn't worry about ever being a "degenerate piece of ****," so you can breath easy.

155 posted on 05/10/2012 7:09:17 PM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (Anybody but Obama and Romney)
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To: Yashcheritsiy

While only an idiot would declare that there is no difference between man and woman (and those who would declare otherwise, please pick a man to go produce a child from his womb..), my part in this was to defend the freedom of association, and the guts it takes to actually do such a thing in this climate of hysteria.

I absolutely believe that people have the God given right to be as much of a fool as they wish, with others who want to be equally foolish. And will continue to defend that right.


156 posted on 05/10/2012 7:10:52 PM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: GunRunner

Actually, I’m interpreting Hot Tabasco’s comments in #124 along that line, since he’s claiming “gender equality” in the context of participation in sports.


157 posted on 05/10/2012 7:12:08 PM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (Anybody but Obama and Romney)
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To: Dick Vomer
I have no idea how a story about you almost choking out some girl relates to what I was saying.

I was defending co-ed sports in social and intramural leagues as fun and in no way anti-woman against two people who were saying that co-ed sports were a tool of Marxism and that women are at all times too weak to defend themselves in the real world.

Check it out for yourself in post #19 and #109, and maybe pay better attention next time.

158 posted on 05/10/2012 7:12:39 PM PDT by GunRunner (***Not associated with any criminal actions anonymus by the ATF***)
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To: kingu

Because there’s total moral equivalency between a private school which chooses to conduct their business in a certain manner with specific standards which applies just to their student body vs Islamic radicals who force everyone to follow their views.

<><>><<><

Well, try to bear in mind also that this private school which chooses to conduct their business in a certain manner with specific standards had absolutely no problem playing this exact same team with the exact same roster as long as the gentleman’s agreement that she would not play was honored. It was only when the young lady was going to actually play that it became an issue. Those are some principles, eh?


159 posted on 05/10/2012 7:13:03 PM PDT by dmz
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To: AppyPappy

I have 3 sons and 2 daughters.

I had one superb athlete.

It was a daughter.


160 posted on 05/10/2012 7:13:52 PM PDT by Mears (Alcohol. Tobacco. Firearms. What's not to like?)
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To: Yashcheritsiy

Well wouldn’t it make sense to respond to him instead of me, especially considering you didn’t read who or what I was responding to?


161 posted on 05/10/2012 7:14:57 PM PDT by GunRunner (***Not associated with any criminal actions anonymus by the ATF***)
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To: SaraJohnson
Boys who are raised right won’t be as brutal with girls as they are with boys.

Sara, you ignorant, sexist hick! That's idiotic. Why are you oppressing women? Fascist! Are you some kind of pervert priest-protecting bishop?

162 posted on 05/10/2012 7:15:38 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline For Sale)
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To: GunRunner

Not really, since your comments in the post I was responding to definitely had the same sort of tenor to them.


163 posted on 05/10/2012 7:17:57 PM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (Anybody but Obama and Romney)
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To: GeronL
Men and women are not interchangeable cogs, as others have said. They are different. Boys should be taught to treat girls with respect.

Neanderthal, LOL!

164 posted on 05/10/2012 7:23:33 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline For Sale)
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To: dmz
Umm, yes, those would be the same principles that applied throughout the season, in the previous two games, she sat out, and the teams played (and her team won) vs simply taking the default and winning that way.

You're welcome to keep spinning this around, but I believe that they have the right to exercise their beliefs, however they want to. If the school was trying to claim a win or a tie because the other team wouldn't follow their rules and ban the girl from playing, that'd be imposing their beliefs on others, and I'd be against it.

But so long as they are exercising their freedom of association, and conforming to their rules, as well as the rules of the association they're playing in, I don't see anything wrong with what they did.

165 posted on 05/10/2012 7:24:18 PM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: dmz

A win is a win.


166 posted on 05/10/2012 7:24:47 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline For Sale)
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To: Yashcheritsiy
You're the second example of some guy bragging about how you out-grappled a girl one time. Are you really so testicularly challenged that you had to interject that in a discussion about a teenage female second baseman?

There's no relevance to the topic at hand and nobody cares.

If you want to throw your lot in with the group here that argues that co-ed sports are a tool of communism and that women are so physically weak that they should never participate in any co-ed sports, then go ahead. But it might help if you read the topics and discussions at hand and responded appropriately to the right people.

167 posted on 05/10/2012 7:24:47 PM PDT by GunRunner (***Not associated with any criminal actions anonymus by the ATF***)
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To: donna

Would you send your wife or daughter off to combat?

Just another sport, right?

<><><><>

Completely demonstrates your lack of perspective on this. Women in combat really is quite a different issue than a female 2nd baseman on a high school team.

Put down your hammer, this ain’t a nail. Really.


168 posted on 05/10/2012 7:27:19 PM PDT by dmz
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To: dmz

That has had a negative effect on the work place and in our military.


169 posted on 05/10/2012 7:27:32 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: GunRunner

sorry that I offended you .. I’ll try harder next time.


170 posted on 05/10/2012 7:30:42 PM PDT by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat they sh#t on.)
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To: Yashcheritsiy

That’s fine. In turn, I pretty much put all of my female colleagues to shame intellectually.

<><><><<>

You know, on an anonymous internet forum, that is just f’in hilarious. So you don’t measure much up to the men, eh? So sorry to hear that.


171 posted on 05/10/2012 7:31:02 PM PDT by dmz
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To: Jeff Chandler

I know, right. I am just so old fashioned.


172 posted on 05/10/2012 7:33:49 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Not to an athlete.


173 posted on 05/10/2012 7:33:53 PM PDT by dmz
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To: Dick Vomer
sorry that I offended you .. I’ll try harder next time.

OK champ, have fun at the Ramrod.

174 posted on 05/10/2012 7:36:07 PM PDT by GunRunner (***Not associated with any criminal actions anonymus by the ATF***)
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To: GunRunner; Yashcheritsiy

You’re the second example of some guy bragging about how you out-grappled a girl one time. Are you really so testicularly challenged that you had to interject that in a discussion about a teenage female second baseman?
There’s no relevance to the topic at hand and nobody cares.

To answer the questionL yes, his extreme arrogance is obvious and to be pitied.


175 posted on 05/10/2012 7:39:03 PM PDT by Flightdeck (If you hear me yell "Eject, Eject, Eject!" the last two will be echos...)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

That has had a negative effect on the work place and in our military.

<><><><

Pretty much puts us, at best, in an agree to disagree spot. I have zero issue with women in the workplace doing the same work as us men.

So should men in the workplace follow your model of intentionally injuring them as you suggested they do on the athletic field? Like maybe starting rumors about them sleeping their way to top? Or that they are bitches?

Really?


176 posted on 05/10/2012 7:41:41 PM PDT by dmz
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To: Yashcheritsiy

Seriously buddy, you are an embarrassment. Your idea of defending your gender bigotry is relaying a story of how you beat some chick in wrestling. You must have absolutely no idea how pathetic you sound.

As for you being more intelligent than every female you meet? Bwahahahahahhah!!!! All that tells us is that you work with morons and I work with brilliant women. What does that say about you and me??


177 posted on 05/10/2012 7:42:39 PM PDT by Flightdeck (If you hear me yell "Eject, Eject, Eject!" the last two will be echos...)
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To: Flightdeck

Sounds like a bunch of guys who can’t get laid to save their life.


178 posted on 05/10/2012 7:42:54 PM PDT by GunRunner (***Not associated with any criminal actions anonymus by the ATF***)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Women have a negative effect on the workplace, now. Good God, I am in the midst of the worst FreeRepublic has to offer.


179 posted on 05/10/2012 7:43:44 PM PDT by Flightdeck (If you hear me yell "Eject, Eject, Eject!" the last two will be echos...)
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To: dmz

The point of sports is to win. They won. Time to grab the trophy eat the pizza.


180 posted on 05/10/2012 7:44:01 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline For Sale)
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To: dmz

Are you so naive? Haven’t you learn the ways of socialism better than that?

Do you know that the reason for political correctness is to prevent the truth from being spoken?

There is no reason in this world for a girl to be on an all boys team, except to bully the boys.


181 posted on 05/10/2012 7:46:01 PM PDT by donna (The fruits of Feminism: Angry fathers, bitter mothers, fat kids and political correctness.)
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To: GunRunner
To: Flightdeck

Sounds like a bunch of guys who can’t get laid to save their life.

Get a room ; )

182 posted on 05/10/2012 7:47:58 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline For Sale)
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To: servo1969

I think the school’s stance is based on higher principles than “boy vs girl.” I applaud them for not bowing to the popular culture.

An analogy might be a president of a country bowing to what some perceive to be public pressure (a false perception) to endorse same sex so-called marriage or civil unions.

Boys aren’t girls and girls aren’t boys. Each is physically and mentally different. Attempting to trick up some high school or college or military scenario to show that there is no difference in the sexes is nonsensical and something straight out of the marxist handbook.


183 posted on 05/10/2012 7:57:51 PM PDT by citizen (Obama blames:arab spring,banks,big oil,bush,ceos,christians,coal,FNC,Jpn tsumani,T Party,wall st,you)
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To: GunRunner

HA! Wrong! Actually, I was a tomboy and faster than the boys (until age 12). I grew us in the middle of three brothers. Funny how biology changes at puberty and men become so much faster and stronger. I marveled at how much stronger my brothers were. My only daughter won a full scholarship to UM for sports. But, she had only brothers and there was no way I wanted her to play professionally against men. They could have killed her if they were playing to win—which in college and professional sports should be the main goal. Men shouldn’t have to learn “to be careful” when playing sports. It ruins excellence and waters down the play.

Coed leagues are different—and the ones my daughter and I were on were respectful of the girls—and were careful around them, as it should be. Athletic men should not go “all out” playing with women on the field. It is irrational to think that the most athletic women can hold their own against the most athletic men. The men could kill the women—in football, baseball, volleyball, soccer, etc. unless the men were forced to put the brakes on their play.

That is what Marxists want to destroy—all competition and “risk”—to eliminate football (Rush got it right)—all REAL competition which separate the men from women has got to be eliminated. They want men to be interchangeable with women so the family unit—the basic building block in society is destroyed—it destroys the emotional development of children.
Fatherless children fill up all the prisons and welfare programs. They are emotional cripples and will collapse the system.

You really need to study Marxist ideology and radical egalitarianism where they want to make the men interchangeable with women-———it is the reason communists founded the homosexual movement and feminist movement...and it is to pit men against women and make men sex objects and untrustful of other men (military) etc.

Overnite—no-—over decades. Ideas have consequences. Marxists are in control and will force all unnatural situations to destroy Natural Law—the basis of our Rights from God—so the State controls all rights and our principles that molded this country and a respect and dignity for the opposite sex is destroyed. What do you think homosexual “marriage” is all about???? It is to segregate the society like Afghanistan.

Marriage is the only institution which unites men and women. Trust is destroyed in all Marxists countries...Read Whittaker Chambers and Solzhenitsyn. They remove ALL trust between ALL groups. Marx was about destroying the family unit-—read Brave New World-—it is that vision where children are raised by the state and children are all engaging in sex and the word “mother and father” is disgusting.

You haven’t been very observant on fashion and the forcing of women out of the home so strangers can shape the worldview of their children. Twiggy was a real wet dream for a homosexual-—who designed women to look like little boys. The fashion industry escalated all sorts of health problems for girls— anorexia and other rare conditions......


184 posted on 05/10/2012 8:00:43 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: donna

There is no reason in this world for a girl to be on an all boys team, except to bully the boys.

<><><><><

You have a very interesting way of viewing the world. I’ve coached coed teams at this age level. Have you? Have you ever seen what you comment on so passionately up close and personally? Or are you spouting theory only from behind a computer screen?

My experience in the real world does not match your theory.

And a mere technicality, if a girl is on the team, by definition, it is not an all boys team. The league in question permits female players.


185 posted on 05/10/2012 8:05:52 PM PDT by dmz
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To: Hot Tabasco

Our Lady of Sorrows is into Sharia? WTF?

And are you OK with boys going out for all of the girls sports in high school? We don’t know if title IX forced this on the league or not. All I said was the team stuck to their principles.


186 posted on 05/10/2012 8:10:26 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Chen Guangcheng: Gutsy call, Obama /UltraMegaDrippingSarc)
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To: savagesusie
OK, so are you backtracking on your claim that co-ed leagues were invented by Marxists and are a tool of communism?

Also, do you have any evidence of females fatalities in co-ed volleyball? What about going "all out" in mixed doubles tennis?

187 posted on 05/10/2012 8:11:16 PM PDT by GunRunner (***Not associated with any criminal actions anonymus by the ATF***)
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To: GunRunner

Hey, I could run circles around crippled men too. You missed my point....coed games are for fun and men need to watch out for the girls....if the athletic women play against an athletic man-—ranked the same by their sex-—like the best woman in the sport against the best man in the same sport....the man would KILL the woman and you know it. There is no equivalence in men and women when it comes to the best of each sex. Sure, you could find some nerd that any women can beat. Then my daughter as age 12 could be most grown men who never played “her” sport.

This idea that men and women are equal in strength comes from MARX. It is a BIG LIE. My daughter with a full scholarship to play sports at UM would have been killed if her team played against a male team and they played to win.


188 posted on 05/10/2012 8:13:55 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: savagesusie

The leap from men’s superiority in upper body strength to Marxist ideology is a tad much. You’ve not made the case.

Like I suggested to another, you might want to put down your hammer, this isn’t a nail.


189 posted on 05/10/2012 8:19:48 PM PDT by dmz
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To: savagesusie

It sounds like you are backtracking because no one here ever claimed that men and women are equal physically in strength. You either misread or imagined it. The argument is also not relavent because the baseball league in question is a co-ed league.


190 posted on 05/10/2012 8:20:16 PM PDT by GunRunner (***Not associated with any criminal actions anonymus by the ATF***)
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To: savagesusie

This idea that men and women are equal in strength comes from MARX.

<><><><><<

Hello!!!! No one on this thread had ever suggested this. It’s your own personal straw woman. Burn it.

Every now and again, a girl might make the team. It doesn’t validate Marx. It’s the odds.


191 posted on 05/10/2012 8:25:45 PM PDT by dmz
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To: dmz

You are the tool of the Feminists and the big Federal Government:

Title IX is a portion of the Education Amendments of 1972, U.S. legislation also identified by the name of its principal author as the Patsy T. Mink (D) Equal Opportunity in Education Act. It states that

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance...
—Title 20 U.S.C. Sections 1681-1688

...In 1967, President Johnson issued a series of executive orders in order to make some clarifications. Before these clarifications were made, the National Organization for Women (NOW) persuaded President Johnson to include women in his executive orders...


192 posted on 05/10/2012 8:25:59 PM PDT by donna (The fruits of Feminism: Angry fathers, bitter mothers, fat kids and political correctness.)
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To: GunRunner

I am saying that the idea of radical egalitarianism is from Marx-—that men and women are interchangeable. It is an absurd lie that women can compete with men. Exceptions always-—but the rule—absolutely not.

Coed teams are for fun and men who hurt women on those teams are usually reviled.

It is important for boys to learn that you treat women with respect and dignity. ...playing in sports where kids get hurt—can condition boys to think it is ok to hurt girls if girls are on the team. That dignity and respect and fairness was always why women never were allowed on boys or mens teams. Forcing girls on football teams is Marxist. She has no future in it and it is to demean boys and men and create resentment.

Marx is always about creating hatred. Identity politics. Everyone is against everyone else. It hurts the dignity of men to have women do better on mens teams....so why would you want that to happen? What good does that do-—make the woman feel macho?


193 posted on 05/10/2012 8:27:04 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: dmz

It is to ridicule the men. Demean the patriarchy. It makes men resentful....exactly what happened when they forced girls on wrestling teams.....THAT was definitely a Marxist thing—to act like sex has no meaning in wrestling. Open your eyes. Girls are boys are rats are whatever. It is all Marxist-—they take the design out of men and women and act like there is no differences when there are TONS.


194 posted on 05/10/2012 8:32:42 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: GunRunner

Sorry.


195 posted on 05/10/2012 8:33:52 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: Krankor

I live next to an elementary school. I can walk over in the morning and get a case of cootie shots. There:problem solved.


196 posted on 05/10/2012 8:35:44 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (I just don't like anything about the President. And I don't think he's a nice guy.)
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To: donna

You are the tool of the Feminists and the big Federal Government:

<><><><><

I’m going to take that as a no, you’ve not actually coached a coed team to see the actual, real life interactions between the two sexes on the athletic field at this age.

Having done so myself, I will, with your permission, lend a tad more credence to experience than theory.


197 posted on 05/10/2012 8:36:46 PM PDT by dmz
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To: donna

You’ve never met my wife or daughters. I would not want to be on the wrong end of their bayonets. If they volunteered, I would have the same horror as if it were my son. as an aside, I would hate to see anyone go to war with the government we have now.

And, if you knew my wife and girls, you would know you can’t “send” them anywhere they don’t want to be.


198 posted on 05/10/2012 8:40:00 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (I just don't like anything about the President. And I don't think he's a nice guy.)
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To: savagesusie

I think you see Marxists where there are none. That is not to say that Marxists don’t exist. They just aren’t the reason for everything. Like girl second basemen. On one team that happens to make the news.


199 posted on 05/10/2012 8:42:39 PM PDT by dmz
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To: dmz

Yes, I know. But I had some time to kill in between projects and I am well read on child psychology, school curricula and the Communist Manifesto. Thought I would reveal some of what I have been reading.

Divisions of men and women are being blurred on purpose to confuse the children, while forming worldview. Worldview of these children will determine our future. I want the Christian paradigm-—which has been the most wonderful for women—for my daughter. No other ideology has given women such dignity and respect and freedom in the history of the world. But I also want dignity and respect for men.

Marx destroys the humanity of both women and men.


200 posted on 05/10/2012 8:42:44 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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