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George Zimmerman: Did he shoot Trayvon Martin in self defense? (Video walkthrough of scene)
WJLA-TV ^ | Thursday, May 10, 2012 | Scott Thuman

Posted on 05/10/2012 9:18:10 PM PDT by kristinn

George Zimmerman admits he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. But was it self defense?

ABC7's Scott Thuman went inside the Sanford, Florida neighborhood where the shooting happened.

He talks with Frank Taaffe, a friend of Zimmerman's, and a former neighborhood watch volunteer himself, who says it was self defense.

Taafe shows us what he says eye witnesses told him happened that night in the Twin Lakes neighborhood.

In this now infamous neighborhood, there's almost as much foot traffic as vehicle traffic. There's a cut-through frequented by kids, some following the very same footsteps as Trayvon Martin.

But in an area hit by thieves, up to 11 times in 14 months, and where property value has plummeted, there was also plenty of suspicion.

"He's parked here, the vehicles in this direction and he watches Trayvon come down here, stares at him out his window and according to George he circles around the car here and he heads back off in this direction here," Taaffe says.

(Excerpt) Read more at wjla.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: blackkk; florida; georgezimmerman; lmm; trayvon; trayvonmartin; zimmerman; zimmermanevidence; zimmermantimeline
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To: TigersEye

Don’t take it personal. I think GZ is innocent, I’m just coming from a different pov.


51 posted on 05/11/2012 1:26:22 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: ArmstedFragg
How do you get that from this?...

Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman’s handgun, a Kel Tel 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said.

They found a casing at the scene. (a round was fired) They found a full magazine in the gun. (no live round was stripped from it and loaded in the chamber)

52 posted on 05/11/2012 1:26:52 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

FWIW: I’d also expect to find GSR on his hands, wrist, or sleeve if he had ahold of the slide.


53 posted on 05/11/2012 1:27:22 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: TigersEye

I get it the way I described it. I know people who routinely “top up” the magazine (usually by just putting a full one in) after they’ve chambered a round.


54 posted on 05/11/2012 1:30:42 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: ArmstedFragg

Of course. The slide may have also been impeded by clothing though. A hand on the slide is not the only possible obstruction to proper cycling.


55 posted on 05/11/2012 1:30:51 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: ArmstedFragg

Yes, I always top up my magazine. And if I fire the chambered round one round will be stripped from the magazine leaving it one round short of full. No?


56 posted on 05/11/2012 1:32:14 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

Yes it will, and if you re-read the article, that’s what it appears to be he’s saying, the magazine had one round missing, the chamber contained one unfired round, thus the only round missing from the magazine was the unfired round in the chamber.

Anyway, we’re arguing about something some reporter claims he heard from someone who claims to know something. When we get the lab work back, we’ll know exactly what was found. My memory is that some other report mentioned recovering a casing, but so far I haven’t dug it up.


57 posted on 05/11/2012 1:43:43 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: TigersEye

Found it... it’s in the Prosecutor’s charge:

“Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest. When police arrived Zimmerman admitted shooting Martin. Officers recovered a gun from a holster inside Zimmerman’s waistband. A fired casing that was recovered at the scene was determined to have been fired from the firearm.”


58 posted on 05/11/2012 1:49:02 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: kristinn
While the Zimmerman/Martin ‘white’ on black killing is covered 24/7 on the MSM with an outpouring of rage and charges of a racial hate crime, where is the concern- where is the rage about the home invasion, torture, beating, rape and murder of the elderly white couple by a gang of feral blacks in Oklahoma just a few weeks ago?

The 90 year decorated old war veteran husband was beaten and his jaw broken. He was shot in the face numerous times with a BB gun and sent to the hospital in critical condition. MR. STRAIT DIED LAST WEEK FROM HIS INJURIES.

The 85 year old partially blind wife was RAPED and then BEATEN TO DEATH.

Can you just imagine the pain, the humiliation, the horror that dear old lady experienced being gang raped by that pack of feral animals?

(the autopsy states she was raped. Don’t think all of these animals didn’t all participate)

And can you imagine the pain, the horror of that dear old husband having to witness this?

There’s a lot more involved here than a home invasion and robbery.

WHERE ARE THE CHARGES OF A RACIAL HATE CRIME??

90 year old husband’s jaw broken and shot in face with a BB gun numerous times?

85 wife year old semi blind wife RAPED and BEATEN to death??

Why does it take a foreign press to enlighten America as to this henious crime?

WHERE IS THE NATIONAL OUTRAGE?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117695/Brutal-home-invasion-Oklahoma-couple-ends-65-year-romance-meeting-blind-date.html

__________________________ Like the Christian/Newsome torture murders and the Knoxville massacre, the authorities refuse to call this a hate crime and have covered up the crime because it is black on white. (none of the monsters responsible for the Christian/Newsome murders nor the Knoxville massacre have been executed, by the way)

Have they caught the rest of the gang of feral blacks who raped, tortured and murdered this elderly woman? Are they even looking? Not a word about it in the media.

59 posted on 05/11/2012 2:00:40 AM PDT by patriot08 (TEXAS GAL- born and bred and proud of it!)
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To: patriot08

I’m outraged by that too, but I wouldn’t put a lot of weight on the length of time with no execution on the other cases, time from conviction to execution can be pretty lengthy.


60 posted on 05/11/2012 2:04:21 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: patriot08
The 90 year decorated old war veteran husband was beaten and his jaw broken. He was shot in the face numerous times with a BB gun and sent to the hospital in critical condition. MR. STRAIT DIED LAST WEEK FROM HIS INJURIES.

The 85 year old partially blind wife was RAPED and then BEATEN TO DEATH.

...

There’s a lot more involved here than a home invasion and robbery.

WHERE ARE THE CHARGES OF A RACIAL HATE CRIME??

Why does it take a foreign press to enlighten America as to this heinous crime?

WHERE IS THE NATIONAL OUTRAGE?

Last time I checked, there are conservative commentators on television. Why are they not confronting the likes of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and their race-baiting ilk on this blatant hypocrisy?

My only conclusion is that it is the result of sheer cowardice.

Political correctness reigns supreme.

An honest, open discussion is, quite simply, taboo.

61 posted on 05/11/2012 2:45:58 AM PDT by sargon (I don't like the sound of these "boncentration bamps")
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To: MHGinTN

Kind of afraid to jump in because you sound like you are in such a bad mood. But please do give us the details. That is what this forum in for. I’m so tired I don’t have the gumption to look for the police report. I’m sure everyone will trust your read. Thanks.


62 posted on 05/11/2012 3:09:59 AM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: DaveTesla

Good catch. They sure did cut it off.


63 posted on 05/11/2012 3:16:23 AM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: Theoria

If they had forensic evidence, wouldn’t that had been mentioned in that ultra lame indictment? And wouldn’t the persecution have to tell Zim’s attorneys about it?

George Zimmerman’s attacker died because of his own aggression.


64 posted on 05/11/2012 3:23:10 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: SoFloFreeper

The indictment that I’ve seen is a open and shut walk for GZ. However, once the State went all in and had that smug press conference, they might have something on him. Once he started talking to the police, he could have contradicted himself. Never talk to the police.


65 posted on 05/11/2012 3:32:21 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria
"I think Martin and Zimmerman separated after Martin was beating on top of him. Then, from a distance, GZ shot Martin."

Highly unlikely. "Belly-to-belly" shots cause "powder burns" which are visually obvious on clothing, skin, etc, and certainly will show up on any lab work. "Stand-off" shots don't.

66 posted on 05/11/2012 4:59:43 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Theoria
I think Martin and Zimmerman separated after Martin was beating on top of him. Then, from a distance, GZ shot Martin. I don't think the State would go after him, unless they had some form of forensic science to back up their Prosecution.

If you are right, then Zimmerman didn't fully test his gun - it jammed and did not chamber the next round. A cardinal rule is that if a gun malfunctions even once, it is useless as a means of self defense. If an automatic has the slide restricted (like in close contact with the shooters body or between two bodies) it will not cycle back far enough to pick up the next round. You either don't know all the story, or are ignorant of guns.

If you think a prosecutor needs real evidence before it makes charges in a case such as this, you are also ignorant of how often it happens (research how Janet reno acquired her fame going after innocent people as a prosecutor).

Having a theory or opinion is fine, but unless it is an informed theory or opinion, it is worthless.

67 posted on 05/11/2012 5:03:00 AM PDT by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: ArmstedFragg
IN the end, it doesn't matter what any of us think or believe, it will be what the JURY hears and makes their decision on. All I can say, knowing how the “justice” system works, Zimmerman needs the best lawyers money can buy. I have seen personally what a prosecutor can do to the accused (not me but someone I am familiar with). They will lie, exaggerate, dramatize and act out stop at almost nothing to get a conviction. If the jury is TRUELY unbiased, it will be amazing to watch. None-the-less, the outcome is yet to be seen.
68 posted on 05/11/2012 5:26:42 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: ArmstedFragg
IN the end, it doesn't matter what any of us think or believe, it will be what the JURY hears and makes their decision on. All I can say, knowing how the “justice” system works, Zimmerman needs the best lawyers money can buy. I have seen personally what a prosecutor can do to the accused (not me but someone I am familiar with). They will lie, exaggerate, dramatize and act out stop at almost nothing to get a conviction. If the jury is TRUELY unbiased, it will be amazing to watch. None-the-less, the outcome is yet to be seen.
69 posted on 05/11/2012 5:27:12 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: kristinn

But was it self defense? No, he shot him then Martin beat him up! /s/


70 posted on 05/11/2012 5:27:54 AM PDT by New Jersey Realist (America: home of the free because of the brave)
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To: ArmstedFragg

IN the end, it doesn’t matter what any of us think or believe, it will be what the JURY hears and makes their decision on. All I can say, knowing how the “justice” system works, Zimmerman needs the best lawyers money can buy. I have seen personally what a prosecuter can do to the accused (not me but someone I am familiar with). They will lie, exagerate, dramatize and act out stop at almost nothing to get a conviction. If the jury is TRUELY un-biased, it will be amazing to watch. None-the-less, the outcome is yet to be seen.


71 posted on 05/11/2012 5:28:37 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: ArmstedFragg

IN the end, it doesn’t matter what any of us think or believe, it will be what the JURY hears and makes their decision on. All I can say, knowing how the “justice” system works, Zimmerman needs the best lawyers money can buy. I have seen personally what a prosecuter can do to the accused (not me but someone I am familiar with). They will lie, exagerate, dramatize and act out stop at almost nothing to get a conviction. If the jury is TRUELY un-biased, it will be amazing to watch. None-the-less, the outcome is yet to be seen.


72 posted on 05/11/2012 5:28:51 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: MHGinTN

Assault weapons like George Zimmerman’s Kel-Tec PF-9 are commonly used in these situations because it’s an easily concealed variant of the AK-47 automatic assault weapon. It’s almost as deadly as the 12 gauge pump-action AK-47 assault weapon, which does keep the fired empty in the chamber until the pump is cycled, probably the source of confusion in this discussion. I’m just glad Zimmerman didn’t bayonet poor Trayvon with his military assault weapon.

[Note: I hope displaying a level of knowledge surpassed only by professional journalists impresses our liberal lurkers and trolls, and draws a laugh from real Freepers.]


73 posted on 05/11/2012 6:34:00 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Can we afford as much government as welfare-addicted voters demand?)
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To: Theoria

Perhaps if one was shot at close range with a shotgun with 00, or from a sniper’s rifle, or possibly even a large claiber handgun such as a .44mag.

In this situation, I would expect any entrance wound fluid to have been contained by Martin’s hoodie.

You know, there is no reason for anyone to be playing CSI in this matter, and to do so is folly. The fact that Zimmerman was never initially charged and the fact that a special persecutor had to be brought in and subsequently charged him with 2nd degree murder of all things is enough for anyone to see that they are trying to railroad this man.


74 posted on 05/11/2012 7:34:16 AM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: kristinn

Could this be a DC based ABC station doing some media backtracking for the mess created by Matt Guttman and ABC down in Sanford? Interesting to see what reporter Scott Thuman has on his follow up report at 5:00 today. The video along with the story has info on how GZ’s vehicle was parked, about the “circling”, and where on the path the confrontation happened (according to Frank).


75 posted on 05/11/2012 7:34:22 AM PDT by ironman
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To: Progov
It may all depend on who is seated on the jury.

According to the news video, the FBI has interviewed the witnesses again and there may be new charges against Zimmerman. It sounds like the federal government has too much invested in this for Zimmerman to walk away a free man.

76 posted on 05/11/2012 7:36:11 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Cboldt

ping


77 posted on 05/11/2012 7:49:07 AM PDT by ironman
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The Place for Conservatives

Liberals do not want liberty for anyone.
They would rather dictate what we do, what we buy, where we go and when, and what we can do while there.
Please donate.
The Republic you save may be your own.


78 posted on 05/11/2012 7:53:21 AM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93)
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To: Theoria

“Gilbreath confirmed that the fatal gunshot was at close range; he said there was powder residue and “stippling” on Martin’s body.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/20/george-zimmerman-released-on-150-000-bail-sorry-for-trayvon-s-loss.html

The lead investigator for the state says your theory is BS.

Find another one...


79 posted on 05/11/2012 8:01:30 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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To: kristinn

FBI investigating could bring new and entirely separate charges..... translates: the state has NO case so Holder will step in.


80 posted on 05/11/2012 8:04:11 AM PDT by Jaded (Really? Seriously?)
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To: Humidston

Ugly deal all around!


81 posted on 05/11/2012 8:05:00 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Humidston
If he’s found innocent after a trial, Eric Holder will go after him for commiting a hate crime.

Not if Holder is busy writing his memoirs about when he used to be important.

82 posted on 05/11/2012 8:11:07 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: montag813

Oh, good call, that would be interesting.

Have you seen the event summary animation done in the style of the Street Fighter arcade game?

http://i.imgur.com/wCxiT.gif


83 posted on 05/11/2012 8:14:54 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Pollster1

Bwahahahahahaha ... thanks, I needed that! Putting an 18 1/2 inch barrel on my Maverick 88 12 ga shotty today. I’ll remember to wrap it in a brown paper bag to take it to the range ... wouldn’t want to scare the neighbors with my AK47 variant assault weapon shotty don’tchaknow.


84 posted on 05/11/2012 8:34:30 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN
Bwahahahahahaha ... thanks, I needed that! Putting an 18 1/2 inch barrel on my Maverick 88 12 ga shotty today. I’ll remember to wrap it in a brown paper bag to take it to the range ... wouldn’t want to scare the neighbors with my AK47 variant assault weapon shotty don’tchaknow.

May I ask where you got the barrel? I just got a Remington 887 that is perfect for birds and clays but could use a shorter barrel for home defense.

85 posted on 05/11/2012 8:48:47 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Can we afford as much government as welfare-addicted voters demand?)
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To: Jaded

What about perjury and/or obstruction, witness tampering, etc?


86 posted on 05/11/2012 8:50:19 AM PDT by ironman
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To: kristinn

Just face it, Zimmerman is GUILTY......of defending his life while White. This is a new crime in the New Amerika of Obama-nation.


87 posted on 05/11/2012 10:16:59 AM PDT by A. Patriot (Have we lost our Republic? Do the majority of Americans care?)
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To: Pollster1

It also appears the explosive bullets didn’t work.


88 posted on 05/11/2012 10:46:08 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: Jaded

There’s a Federal anti-littering law? Who knew?


89 posted on 05/11/2012 10:49:38 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: ArmstedFragg
It also appears the explosive bullets didn’t work.

I thought he was just using Teflon-coated full-metal-jacket cop-killer dum dums. They were exploding too? I guess I should have expected that from the kind of guy who hunts down cute 12 y/o boys to take their Skittles.

90 posted on 05/11/2012 11:39:05 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Can we afford as much government as welfare-addicted voters demand?)
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To: Mr Rogers

thanks, i didn’t know she made that statement.


91 posted on 05/11/2012 11:43:34 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: ArmstedFragg
Yes it will, and if you re-read the article, that’s what it appears to be he’s saying, the magazine had one round missing, the chamber contained one unfired round, thus the only round missing from the magazine was the unfired round in the chamber.

I don't know what the heck you're reading. This doesn't say that at all.

Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman’s handgun, a Kel Tel 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said.

92 posted on 05/11/2012 12:02:57 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: ArmstedFragg
“Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest. When police arrived Zimmerman admitted shooting Martin. Officers recovered a gun from a holster inside Zimmerman’s waistband. A fired casing that was recovered at the scene was determined to have been fired from the firearm.”

The article I quoted said the same thing. "Police found a single shell casing at the scene,..."

93 posted on 05/11/2012 12:05:41 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

If you can’t look at the two sentences, and realize that the second one modifys the first, I can’t help you. Believe whatever you want to believe.


94 posted on 05/11/2012 12:38:46 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: ArmstedFragg

I can’t see what isn’t there.


95 posted on 05/11/2012 12:45:31 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Pollster1

Ordered a Mossberg 500 18.5 inch from CheaperThanDirt.com $77 bucks plus shipping with a few short shell mini 12 gauge rounds in Buckshot. Google it, but I think you have to get the 887 barrels from Remington directly.


96 posted on 05/11/2012 2:01:55 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN

Thank you.


97 posted on 05/11/2012 3:23:15 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Can we afford as much government as welfare-addicted voters demand?)
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To: Pollster1

http://www.shopremingtoncountry.com/Remington-Model-Barrel-Rifled-Sights/dp/B0044XJK46

20” for $288 bucks!


98 posted on 05/11/2012 3:56:46 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Pollster1

Found another source for $193 ... that’s Remington for ya.


99 posted on 05/11/2012 3:59:14 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN

Thanks!


100 posted on 05/11/2012 5:16:32 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Can we afford as much government as welfare-addicted voters demand?)
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