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How Horrific Will It Be For The Non-Prepper?
SHTF Plan ^ | 5-12-2012 | Be Informed

Posted on 05/12/2012 2:48:24 PM PDT by blam

How Horrific Will It Be For The Non-Prepper?

Be Informed
May 12th, 2012

This article has been made available by regular SHTF Plan contributor Be Informed.

Editor’s Note: You have no doubt had your own set of issues dealing with friends and family members that simply don’t see the writing on the wall. The following article may serve to assist you in convincing those who simply don’t know, don’t want to know, don’t care, or have never even thought to contemplate. Some of the scenarios outlined below may be frightening, as they should be, because when it hits the fan millions of people will be thrown into desperation with no hope of a solution. Be Informed provides a variety of point-by-point details that may (and hopefully will) convince the non-prepared individual to at least insulate themselves with the basic necessities. The consequences for not doing so, as you’ll see, are severe and often deadly.


I have become personally so disenchanted with the way people fail to prep. People still don’t understand how important it is to put away. I have gotten into arguments over this and had cretins call me a fool because I put away food, water, and supplies. I thought about this and the frustration that other preppers have with this laid back idiotic attitude that there is no need for preparation. There are good people that just can’t/won’t start preparing. They have the money to do so, but just don’t want to. Many have only seen what happens to non-preppers on TV, but it still doesn’t make an impact.

In this article I detail some hard core realities to show just how awful it will be for those that don’t prep. Every one of these scenarios is something that has occurred to the non-prepper throughout history. While strong images come to mind, the purpose is to jar some people out of their inaction and into action before it is too late.

Preppers are good people and care much about those around them, and unless something does jar those around them that choose not to prep, their own survival chances could be reduced. For every bit of food, water, ammunition, or supplies you sacrifice to the non-prepper, the fewer irreplaceable supplies are left for you and your family in a crisis situation. It is hoped that the following can help certain people put into TRUE perspective just how horrific it will be for those that don’t prepare.

Here are the awful consequences for those refusing to prep.

As the world continues to decay at multiple facets, the common person has and continues to be lulled into a sense that everything is improving and will continue to for the distant future. After all, to them unemployment has peaked out and will drop until everyone that wants to work will easily be able to find good paying work, North Korea is no threat because all their long range “bottle rockets” fizz out, sanctions will eventually make Iran give up their nuclear program, oil prices will start going down after June or so, Europe will bail out Greece and Spain and everyone else, and U.S. debt will eventually come under control.

After 2012 everyone that has prepared themselves will go back to more “sensible” lives. “Good times are coming”, baseball season is here, let’s get back to watching some more crackerjack news.

It is amazing how people become good conversationalists with most others discussing all the gossip related news, while becoming mentally tranquilized into a totally deceptive state of denial of truly dangerous issues of the times. It’s the blind leading the blind… right off the cliff.

Rather than dealing with harsh reality, people surround themsleves with easy to digest material that can be talked about without directly influencing anyone’s lives. Meaningless chatter. Even for those unwilling to even think to prepare for a societal catastrophic event, there is also no desire to even face the extreme possibility of a sudden loss of one’s employment. A personal SHTF.

Look at some of the terrible personal pain experienced in America right now – and it hasn’t even hit the fan on a grand scale. Those people who have lived it up on credit, who failed to put much of anything away for a rainy day, who’ve lost their job, and who eventually lost their unemployment benefits are experiencing the first level of collapse. This is happening to millions of people in our own country, all around us, as we speak.

These Americans, who once enjoyed the luxuries that modern living had to offer, are now at their wits end, with very little hope for a return to their previous lives. They are no longer able to pay most or any of their bills. Many have to humiliatingly turn to others for help to pay for food, or worse, to obtain old, unhealthy and poor tasting food from locally funded food banks. Their credit cards are totally worthless. Many have been evicted from their homes and have uprooted their families to live either on the street, in tent cities, with relatives, or have been forced to live at homeless shelters, They’ve have had their vehicles repossessed, or simply can’t afford the gasoline anymore. Their living conditions often make it difficult, if not impossible, to look presentable for job interviews. For many, the life of stability they knew just a short while ago is gone, replaced with fear and a constant stress to the point of nervous breakdown.

A personal economic meltdown is confined to the individual or family, or at worst a few families. The human civilization remains intact and so do society’s safety nets.

With food assistance, rental assistance, homesless shelters, and family to turn to, even the most destitute are almost always able to find some sort of help – however menial.

It is no wonder with these known assistance programs, then, that people have forgotten or never thought to consider what happens IF and WHEN human civilization goes through a strong enough SHTF event. If that happens on a mass scale what happens to everyone that needs help that has not prepared ahead of time? What happens when governments are in such total disarray or destroyed altogether that they can’t help even if they wanted to?

The media and others have portrayed the good people that sacrifice much if not all “luxuries” of life to prepare themselves and their family and friends for extreme times, as chicken littles. Those who have made the choice to store up emergency food, water, and other necessities to avoid extreme life threatening risks, including suffering horribly during and after a widespread SHTF event, are laughed at and ridiculed often for “wasting” their lives on delusional paranoia.

But who is delusional? Those who see the signs around them and understand how vulnerable the system is, or those who believe that things never change, that politicians have their best interests at heart, and that if the worst happens the government will be there to provide everything they may need?

How many have considered the dire consequences of their failure to prepare in the event that the infrastructure and everything a country’s people depend on totally collapses?

The misery from long term unemployment and lack of money is like a walk in the park compared to the severe anguish and dangerous conditions that await those who have failed to prepare for the aftermath of a large scale cataclysm. The “minor” problems of unemployment that seem extremely major and painful to most today should serve as a wake up call to what life will be like when something much, much worse happens – when those proverbial safety nets are no longer there to catch us.

Many preppers have become deeply frustrated at those around them, especially those that truly mean something to them, because they simply refuse to put away anything at all for emergencies. The prepper is usually a person that cares a lot and it is often difficult for them to take a tough stance towards the people that they care about. However, unless someone changes the habits of those people that fail to get ready, decisions will need to be made, and they won’t be easy.

The choice of what the prepared prepper should do will boil down to either either adding these people to their own circle or survival group and reduce the group’s safety, supplies and self sufficiency, OR, they will have to let the non-prepper fend for themselves. This is a very personal choice, and each of us will need to decide based on our own morals, ethics and personal relationships.

As a last ditch effort, discussing the following scenarios with the non-prepper may help them understand what life will be like without what has sustained them so comfortably for so long.

This is the hard reality the non prepper needs to understand:

* Without power the water company cannot get water to their faucets. Without water dehydration occurs within 24 hours. Dehydration causes much suffering before death.

* Toilets in homes, unless they have an incineration toilet that still need power to work, don’t flush without water. Where will they go to the bathroom and then where will they dispose of human waste?

* There will be no clean water available anywhere, especially in major cities, and they cannot live more than about three days without it.

* Drinking dirty and polluted water will make them incredibly sick and accelerate the dehydration process.

* Polluted water must be purified and that means having a good filter, bleach or other disinfectant, or fuel and something to boil water with.

* Understand just how fragile the power and the infrastructure is that pumps water to the public. A breakdown in our power infrastructure or a cyber attack against utility systems will render them useless.

* A single event can rapidly lead to a cascade of other events that would certainly collapse almost, if not, everything. This is why major snow storms, hurricanes or solar events in the past have affected millions of people in an entire region all at once.

* A single, seemingly unimportant event may become quite terrible as its repercussions spread; this can include a far and away disaster.

* Understand that the economies of the world are so interwoven that when one major economy falls it affects everyone.

* Not having any food in the house means that if the stores are emptied suddenly in a bad enough situation that there will be no food available for a long period of time afterward. Recent history during disasters around the world has shown that stores can literally be emptied in minutes.

* Think about how totally horrible the feeling of being very hungry is and what circumstances would cause one to be desperate enough to eat anything.

* ALL stores can be closed instantly under martial law.

* Understand that you may not be able to purchase anything after it starts, especially with any credit cards.

* Understand the complexity of food and water distribution; breaks in these chains can stop anything from getting to the people.

* What life will be like if no toilet paper is stored? Understand that without light sources, the night will be pitch black, often with zero visibility.

* There will be no communications, other than probably martial law type of instructions over the radio, that is if they have batteries for the radio.

* Other than ham and shortwave radio, any information that is available will be sent out by the government as filtered propaganda that “they” want everyone to hear.

* Without power consider what it will be like to not have any heat to stay warm, or air conditioned air to stay cooler – with no way of alleviating the situation.

* Travelling will likely be by foot or bicycle, as there will be no fuel and roadways may be blocked.

* Realize that ANY travel outside of the home or neighborhood will be extremely dangerous as ANYONE who moves becomes a target

* Non preppers will be pushed way beyond their limit because of lack of supplies.

* The non prepper must realize their government does not really care about them individually, that they are a mere number and help will likely not come from them.

* They have to figure out somewhere to get food. This can mean wild plants which they must know how to identify as safe, or risk poisoning themselves.

* They have to understand that when we refer to “having no food” it doesn’t mean not having the food they are used to enjoying, it means no food to eat at all.

* They have to understand that if they are fortunate enough to have any running water, they will probably have to bathe in cold water for lack of stored fuel to heat water.

* They have to realize that the very strange and totally unexpected is going to be all around them, made that much worse because of lack of any reliable self defense stores or skills.

* They might have to remain on the run constantly because of looking for water and food.

* They must understand that bad will be magnified magnitudes to living misery because of lack of food, water, and other necessary items that they took for granted for so long.

Okay, now comes the “truly ugly and unthinkable” life that most, if not all, people that have failed and refused to prepare themselves will deal with. Clear vivid visualization is key here for anyone that ho hums the idea of prepping.

What horrors they will likely face after a cave-in of their nation’s economy, war, geophysical upheaval, or whatever crisis is bad enough to disturb or stop their nation from working and functioning? There are plenty of very potential SHTF events that are simply awaiting a catalyst to trigger them.

* The Non-Prepper (NP) has to realize right off the bat that 911 and other emergency calls in will be met with silence or some recording telling the caller not to panic.

* The (NP) that has no reliable self defense that can stop an attacker, will not get help from public services, and will become a victim of rape, assault, torture, or murder.

* The (NP) that has no reliable self defense and will not only be at the mercy of criminal elements, but also have to contend with many desperate animals, some with rabies.

* The (NP) that has no food will either have to find food or be ready to beg for food or worse, like sacrificing their bodies or other horrible acts or things to get a bite of food.

* The (NP) will have to go through the worst, most rancid conditions of garbage to just maybe find what they should have stored up.

* The (NP) will go through panic and near if not total psychosis looking for any water source right before their bodies begin shutting down during advanced stages of dehydration.

* The (NP) will go through unbearable trauma when their children and other people around them are crying, screaming, and suffering with intense hunger pains in their stomachs.

* The (NP) will have to deal with the awful stench of rotting wastes from many sources because they have not taken the effort to even store up waste disposal plastic bags.

* The (NP) will have disease and pathogens everywhere, not only because they have no trash disposal means, but because they haven’t prepared how to deal with trash and waste.

* The (NP) will have to live in very primitive conditions after things around them deteriorate rapidly, because they have neglected putting away anything to make life more bearable.

* The (NP) and those around them will likely develop all sorts of infective skin rashes from the lack of insight of storing up toilet paper. Imagine the smell for a moment.

* The (NP) will have to handle biting insects and other vermin that will collect amoungst the filth that will pile up. No pest control stored up along with no other supplies.

The (NP) will have no way of treating sickness certain to follow a SHTF event, no first aid and likely no training or knowledge about how to treat the ill on top of this.

* The (NP) will have sick and dying people around them because of not being able to treat minor injuries. Didn’t even stock up on disinfectives. Unsanitary conditions lead to infection.

* The (NP) and others around them will experience much grief as they watch helplessly as their family members literally die of starvation right in front of their eyes.

* The (NP) won’t believe how desperate hunger drives them and those that mean everything to them to “trying” to eat food that taste so bad it gags them and comes back up.

* The (NP) will likely have family and friends around them that have also not prepared committing suicide because they can’t take it any longer.

* The (NP) will witness some of those people around them lose any sense of civilized humanity in them and behave like wild animals after some time from lack of necessities.

* The (NP) and family members, maybe friends also, will at some point end up barbecuing or eating raw the family dog, cat, bird, any pet dear to everyone for food.

* The (NP) will likely get into physical fights with other family members over any scrap of food available as rational thoughts are lost to wanton hunger.

* The (NP) as many other (NP’s) will eventually go out of any safety of their home looking for food and or water, become disorientated and lost, and die a hard death somewhere.

* The (NP) that is “lucky” enough to find some government help will likely have to almost sell their soul, probably all their freedom, to get tiny rations – just enough to keep them alive.

* The (NP) will see widespread violence and barbarism that will shock them to the core and will wish that they had purchased some form of firearm and stocked up on ammunition.

* The (NP) better get used to attempting to explain the children and other adults why they wasted all that money on junk, and didn’t buy any emergency food and other supplies.

* The (NP), no matter how positive they are will drop quickly into depression and lose willpower as having nothing to hold on to does this, along with lack of any nutrition.

* The (NP) will feel the worst guilt imaginable as they hear their family moaning in anguish from lack of anything to eat, knowing they could have done something to prepare.

* The (NP) will most likely not see the rebuilding and recovery after A SHTF event. They will, like almost all NP’s, be statistics. Some will die hours or a day before help arrives.

* The (NP) from lack of food, drinking bad water, no light at night, the horrid smells, no good self defense, the overall horror, will often be paralyzed with fear and despair, blank stare.

* The (NP) is totally helpless after SHTF, will have to rely totally on charity of those prepared to live. They will take all sorts of desperate measures likely to get them shot. They’ll attempt to eat hazardous foods like an animal trapped in a house will do, and get sick and suffer much before dying. The (NP) will likely die (ugly and hard) as they lived, unprepared for anything.

If we were to use one single word to describe the torments that someone who “chooses” not to prepare will go through after a true you know what hits the fan it would be “PREVENTABLE”.

Almost every single person, even a very poor person, has the capacity to put away emergency food and supplies. Even homeless people have stashes of something just in case things become so bad that the normal hand outs and thrown-away items dry up. Many people with good sources of income don’t even have an extra can of food or any water put away at all. This is stupidity beyond words.

Every day lightweight disasters happen in all parts of the world that disturb services enough that people are confined to their homes for a certain amount of time. While recovery is short, people are still uncomfortable during these times. Look what happens after a power outage at night and you will be mystified at how many homes are completely dark for hours. People have not even bought an extra couple of candles or any battery operated light sources. Even in well-to-do neighborhoods you may hear only a lone generator going after a blackout. This lack of preparedness is truly frightening and plays itself out again, again, and again every time services are disrupted for minor to major reasons. It’s as if there is something wrong with storing extra food, water, and supplies.

Even after “lessons” played out to what happens to those non-prepared, most people still feel that it just cannot happen to them, or won’t ever happen to them again. It should be proof enough to people what happens to those unprepared after disasters simply by looking at those that have gone through it firsthand. The difference, though, comes in that these disasters have had recovery periods and help from others. Even Haiti received some help and conditions remain putrid over there.

After a TRUE SHTF, it is presumable that government help and others coming to the aid of those in need WON’T happen for long periods of time. During that time those that have chosen to not put food, water, and necessities away are going to be in life threatening positions. Most people just don’t get that when the supermarket shelves are empty they will stay that way for an extended period. When the utilities go down, especially water, it may be weeks, months, or longer before they come back, if ever. Without what someone needs to survive each day, it is not going to magically appear, and depending on the goodwill of others to feed them and sacrifice their own family’s survival chances is a terrible choice.

People MUST know what life will be like after SHTF in mega fashion if they refuse to prepare. This is NOT new. Terrible events have plunged people into the deepest levels of desperation and hopelessness, and they will happen again and again.

While the above consequences to the non-prepper are extremely abysmal for anyone to read, the simple fact of the matter is they have already happened time and time again to those that have nothing put away. People have resorted to cannibalism and gone to levels of primitive savage behavior out of shear desperation and out of literally losing their minds to the physical depletion of food and water that keeps the physical body operating. Sometimes showing the extreme severity and results of a person’s lack of action, such as failure of the simple act of putting away extra food, water, and supplies, can be the kick in the complacency that they need.

It’s really easy to put away food and supplies. All one has to do is add a little bit of extra food to the grocery cart for long-term storage. Over time this adds up to a well stocked pantry of supplies.

There is something that is in a can of food that everyone can eat and enjoy the taste of, so talk to family members about their nutritional preferences and start stocking up. Toilet paper and other supplies that really don’t have any expiration date can be put away and forgotten about ’til needed.

There MUST be common sense and intelligence to see what happens IF they don’t stock up for the future. There has to be the DESIRE to get started, and this is the real problem with so many.

Once started, however, prepping becomes a type of life saving routine or positive lifestyle habit. It is easy and can and will save one from misery. It may save their life and the lives of their family from ruin when SHTF, which is almost inevitably going to happen someday. Every month and year that goes by without a true SHTF event, makes it more likely that it will happen. Basic statistical chance shows this to be the case, but people continue the same pattern of behavior that has led them to the same devastation countless time before.

For those preppers that have people around them that refuse to prepare, you can at least have some degree of solace knowing that you tried to show the non-prepping person(s) what not having anything will mean to them and their families.

All we can do is try. Once we’ve given it our best shot, all we can do is let those who have been warned about the direness of the possibilities live their lives the way that want to. They will, unfortunately, live in a world of regret and suffering if the nation and the world falls apart around them.

To every action there is an opposite equal reaction. Preppers will see their efforts have been more than worth it. Objects that are motionless tend to remain motionless and non-preppers will find there are horrific consequences for their lack of effort and motion to put away “life insurance” preps for themselves and their families.

TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: collapse; doomsday; doomsdayscenario; preppers; prepping; shtf; survival
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To: Just another Joe
Money can be spent on MUCH more useful objects than TP.

The ancient Romans used sponges where we use TP. However, TP is always high on all the preparedness lists I've seen.

151 posted on 05/12/2012 5:19:32 PM PDT by The Duke
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To: JRandomFreeper

Even today, I drain canned veggies into a large freezer container to use later in soups. I’ve already paid for it so why throw it out? Waste not, want not.

152 posted on 05/12/2012 5:21:12 PM PDT by bgill
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To: Yardstick
I saw that it listed events that have historically occured. And yes, some of what happened in WWII and Cambodia and South America, and in POW camps here in the US during the CW and other situations is right straight out of Dante.

But it's historically correct.

You have projection issues, and are imparting motives not available from the text.


153 posted on 05/12/2012 5:22:27 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: mamelukesabre

In my business, telecom, VPN, MPLS, etc, my clients and discuss “disaster Planning”.

We change that mindset by working through a series of excercises and they come out with a new perspective.

That is “Disaster Planning” generally mean just in case something might happen.

We change that to “Contingency Plans” and thing actually do happen. Best plans fail in your plan A and since your plan B is rarely used it needs to be scheduled so you can see what the process of operating in that environment looks like and what is the chaos that ensues and then, how to revert back to regular operations when possible.

So with that in mind, I have contingency plans in place and test every piece of equipment and food stores.

One test I performed last year was to take condensed milk and dilute it with water to get regular milk.

It worked and now condensed milk is part of our preparing what will be an eventuality.

I shudder to think what would happen if I didn’t have so much of everything.

two weeks a fellow gashed his finger about an inch long. It was bleeding profusely. No problem. I asked if wanted to burn with Styptic or wash out a gel.

He know styptic would work but it would burn like a **(&^. He opted for Celox and voila, the bleeding stopped.

Pretty cool and he rinsed it out a few days later.

154 posted on 05/12/2012 5:22:26 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: AlexW

True, but why be uncomfortable, life will already be uncomfortable enough. It is a simple thing that might keep morals up a bit. Honestly I couldn’t care less, but I have four girls in the house I have to keep them happy. :)

155 posted on 05/12/2012 5:24:14 PM PDT by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: JRandomFreeper
That's one of the things that lots of missionary groups do, in third world countries, is teach people to use local resources to clean their water and stop the babies from dying.

What's mind boggling is you'd think third world people would already know how to clean water, farm and preserve foods. That's basic survival skills known by mankind for eons. They should be the ones teaching those of us who have forgotten these skills. Never could understand why we've been teaching all this to them for generation after generation and they still don't get it.

156 posted on 05/12/2012 5:24:58 PM PDT by bgill
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To: SampleMan

I grew up without ac but houses were built for it back then. We got our first AC, a window unit when I about 11. Within 2 years we had central heat/AC.

The problem with my current house is it was built in the age of air conditioning. The windows are double paned and difficult to open. When you do open them, there is just a small area open. It also has a fairly low ceiling.

Our old frame house had shade trees, (live oaks) all around the house and I could open a couple of windows in the Summer and the breeze would often get just a little cool by morning.

I live in the Florida Panhandle and Winter is no problem. It gets cold but I can always sleep under blankets.

157 posted on 05/12/2012 5:25:33 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

Think solar generator.

158 posted on 05/12/2012 5:26:39 PM PDT by bgill
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To: 1raider1

They won’t overrun this neighborhood. They didn’t prep, we did and we gotz lotz of ammo.

So if they want to come and victimize us it’d be a pretty stoopit thing to do.

I have three cops within one block of me who are marksmen and three additional cops within 1/4 mile who part of the same community.

Now you couple ability, superior tactics and well fed against a desperate few, well they ain’t gonna fare so well and we’ll em to pick up their dead buddies before they leave or we’ll shoot them too.

159 posted on 05/12/2012 5:27:04 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: bgill
They don't have germ theory. We in the west didn't either, for a long, long time. Cholera outbreaks in London were in newspapers before the west figured it out.

We could set type, but couldn't keep our drinking water clean.


160 posted on 05/12/2012 5:29:04 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

I heard on a radio show about biochar (glorified charcoal)
that indians put some charcoal in their dry beans to preserve them for many years......

161 posted on 05/12/2012 5:31:20 PM PDT by freedommom
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To: Greysard
Yes, existing communities in ghettos will definitely step up and mobilize to make sure THEIR needs are met - at your expense. How do you think those gangbangers are going to act?

The gangbangers will act like gangbangers until a few of them are shot down by the larger community which is no longer constrained by regulations on the use of deadly force. Gangbangers aren't the only ones who can organize, and there are lot more of us than there are of them.

162 posted on 05/12/2012 5:32:00 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: stanne

Mark your peroxide with the date of purchase.

It actually and absolutely detoriates back to plain water within three years.

I buy 5 bottles a year, mark em and toss the expired ones.

I also have iodine, alcohol and burn prep kits with burn bandages.

Had a friend who spilled a hot cup of tea, fresh off the stove, right on her leg.

I stopped for second, pulled the pants off, wet a rag with cool water and placed it on the burn.

I then grabbed my burn kit out of the car and performed my planned series of applications and then placed the burn bandage right over the burn.

three days later barely a noticeable spot where the hot water landed.

163 posted on 05/12/2012 5:32:52 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Salgak

A good knife....I have a real K-Bar and a EK commando. I was trying to sell the K Bar to a guy at work. I told him I wanted 50 for it and he said he only buys 10 dollar knives.
Knives are overlooked but a good multi-purpose knife is worth its wieght in Gold.
If you have the space,buy 2x4 lumber. about 20 or so. Use them for shoring up or securing damaged doors.
If you really have the space,plywood...4x8 sheets.

164 posted on 05/12/2012 5:33:45 PM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: yarddog

Must be nice - I’ve been burning wood since September and it’s still in the 30’s at night.

165 posted on 05/12/2012 5:38:42 PM PDT by GreyHoundSailor
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To: Yardstick
If the bottom falls out, Americans will reorganize themselves pretty quickly to make sure things don’t fall into complete anarchy. The loner preppers out there will be disappointed to find that everything doesn’t just go to hell. No one will come to the them begging for supplies, nor will they be attacked. Mostly they will just be irrelevent, as already existing communities and associations step up and mobilize to make sure needs are met. It will be rough, but it won’t be a return to the jungle. The bottomless pessimism of the preppers will turn out to be false. Sooner or later they will come out of their hidey holes looking for things that only the local community can provide.

I agree. It will be much like the tv series "Jericho."

166 posted on 05/12/2012 5:41:11 PM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: JRandomFreeper
It's not that I'm projecting - it's that you can't look critically at a movement that you agree with. I mean, just read this stuff:

* The (NP) from lack of food, drinking bad water, no light at night, the horrid smells, no good self defense, the overall horror, will often be paralyzed with fear and despair, blank stare.

* The (NP) is totally helpless after SHTF, will have to rely totally on charity of those prepared to live. They will take all sorts of desperate measures likely to get them shot. They’ll attempt to eat hazardous foods like an animal trapped in a house will do, and get sick and suffer much before dying. The (NP) will likely die (ugly and hard) as they lived, unprepared for anything.

Yeah, just detached historical analysis. No moral judgement or anything.

167 posted on 05/12/2012 5:42:17 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: The Cajun

Everyone really needs to read Alas Babylon. All about prepping and the lack of prepping WTSHF.

Also would like to ask other preppers how to keep supplies in hot humid Florida. As it is, I always keep most dry and some other foods in the fridge.

168 posted on 05/12/2012 5:48:28 PM PDT by varina davis (A real American patriot -- Gov. Rick Perry)
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To: Yardstick
Exactly those two things happened a LOT during WWII. It is well documented in photographs and stories. See Warsaw.

And those that were unprepared in WWII died ugly and hard, in camps, run by governments.

Those that were prepared got out. Never Again.


169 posted on 05/12/2012 5:48:57 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Ronald_Magnus

YMMV, but I just extras of foods I normally buy. If you have the money, then I’m sure the kits are fine. I’d rather eat “normal” foods during a crisis.

170 posted on 05/12/2012 5:50:51 PM PDT by bgill
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To: Yardstick
Most folks on this thread are interested in sharing information for preparedness, whether for TSHTF or for tornados, or earthquakes, or whatever.

We aren't here to debate whether preparedness is appropriate. We have decided that it is.

So leave. I'm not interested in arguing with you. You are not contributing to the community that is trying to prepare. You are being disruptive.


171 posted on 05/12/2012 5:52:56 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: DYngbld

“True, but why be uncomfortable”

I am not sure which of my post you are referring to, but I assume “toilet paper”.
Yes, for one who grows up using it, the thought of going without it is a problem.
Here, however, water is preferable to paper.
While we have paper, my lady prefers the way she has done it all her life, and as I think about it, water, and maybe some soap, is actually a cleaner way.
There is certainly nothing uncomfortable about it.

172 posted on 05/12/2012 5:53:55 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: Yardstick
The gangbangers will act like gangbangers until a few of them are shot down by the larger community

My coworker lives in a "larger community" that couldn't defend itself from a rabid mouse. None of them have firearms, ammo or skill to use them. After TSHTF it will be too late to acquire those. That's exactly the point of preppers. You cannot defer to some "larger community" - it will be in the same boat as you are.

I'm living in a semi-rural area, and all my neighbors are well equipped to defend the only road that goes here. But from my home I can see a huge expanse of those "larger communities" in the city that will fall prey to a single coyote, let alone a hundred well-armed and physically fit gang members.

I wouldn't give too much weight to the fear factor. Stupid people (who make the majority in a gang) always think that bad things happen only to someone else. If a hundred of them attacks you and you eliminate two, do you think the remaining 98 will run away in fear? "He killed Kenny, get him!1!" and then they rush you. Attackers on drugs (a.k.a. berserkers) are even unable to understand what is happening. Such a gang has to be wiped out nearly completely to be neutralized. A couple of them shot will only result in retaliation - because a gang cannot afford such a disrespect, it lowers its standing. Besides, the gang leaders who order the attack aren't going to lead it. Gang soldiers are expendable. A collapsed society is a rich source of cannon fodder; people will be dirt cheap, many will fight and die only for a daily can of food.

If your "larger community" kills gang members it better be willing to take on the entire gang and win. However most communities in cities are randomly organized. You may get one soldier, one accountant, one nurse, one philosopher, and one artist. You will be against 100 professional killers. What are your chances?

This scenario unfolded many times in human history, when an organized attacker conquered hundreds of tiny, unorganized settlements. Genghiz Khan is the most famous, of course, but he is not the only one. Your "larger community" has to be large enough to be strong enough - or it has to be extremely well prepared. Which is exactly what people are discussing here.

173 posted on 05/12/2012 5:57:34 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Yorlik803

I have a Gerber Mark II Combat, several good folders, and a number of Swiss Army Knives. . . And in a pinch, there’s always the bayonet that came with my Mosin-Nagant... (evil grin)

174 posted on 05/12/2012 5:57:34 PM PDT by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: Salgak
I salvaged some copper bus bars from a telecom site that was being removed, back before copper was worth much, and hung onto it for years because sometimes, with the ham radio thing and the solar power thing, large copper bars come in handy.

A couple of years ago, I crafted a knife and hatchet out of the bar stock. It actually looks sorta cool because of the holes in bus bars, and it sharpens up great.


175 posted on 05/12/2012 6:05:22 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: varina davis
If I'm understanding you, cheap styrofoam ice chests taped closed securely with duck tape might be an answer.
Have several stacked in my workshop, dry as a bone inside regardless of outside humidity.
You can also buy large (2 gallon) zip lock bags that will last a very long time if not disturbed, like in the before mentioned styrofoam ice chests.
176 posted on 05/12/2012 6:06:55 PM PDT by The Cajun (Palin, Free Republic, Mark Levin, Newt......Nuff said.)
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To: varina davis
Also would like to ask other preppers how to keep supplies in hot humid Florida

Good question. I look forward to seeing the answers to it. I certainly have no idea. I've never had to deal with Florida more than 2 days at a time.


177 posted on 05/12/2012 6:09:45 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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178 posted on 05/12/2012 6:10:08 PM PDT by mcmuffin ("Wanting your country back is not the same thing as working to take it back.")
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To: JRandomFreeper; varina davis

” Good question. I look forward to seeing the answers to it. “

No answers - but, as I’ve mentioned on other occasions, people were in just about every geographic area, living and growing food and storing food long before electricity and refrigeration...

A little research (a local Historical Society is a good place to start) will yeild many of their techniques, saving one the necessity of reinventing the wheel... (Or the ‘fun’ of inventing Rube-Goldberg devices to do simple tasks.. ;))

179 posted on 05/12/2012 6:26:01 PM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: Greysard

Yes, existing communities in ghettos will definitely step up and mobilize to make sure THEIR needs are met - at your expense.

Yea, but how many in here live in neighborhoods like that. I sure don’t and I would be 95% of the people in FR don’t either.

180 posted on 05/12/2012 6:26:26 PM PDT by BradtotheBone (Moderate Democrat - A politician whose voting record leans left and whose vote can be bought.)
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To: Greysard
I tend to think of the 30 Years War. That's about as Mad Max as you can get on horseback. Ugly.

German princes hired mercs from all over Europe and they lived off of forage. For 30 years. And replentished their ranks by conscripting kids that died or fought and lived and became just as bad.

Tilly was not a nice man. And his boys were worse.


181 posted on 05/12/2012 6:29:39 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: varina davis

I was born and raised in the Florida Panhandle, We always live around 40 miles inland except for around 6 years in Panama City.

The humidity here is no worse than any other area of the country which gets over 40 inches of rain a year. If you live close to the water then it goes up a bit.

182 posted on 05/12/2012 6:30:54 PM PDT by yarddog
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183 posted on 05/12/2012 6:31:11 PM PDT by RedMDer (
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To: tbw2
The “fish” antibiotics I buy are the same antibiotics your doctor prescribes for you. They just come in a different package.

You can google “prescription meds identification” and compare what comes in your “fish” bottle with what humans are supposed to consume.

They are the same, sometimes from the same company.

Hope this helps.

184 posted on 05/12/2012 6:31:20 PM PDT by I am bigjohn
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To: Greysard

If push comes to shove, a community of tens of thousands can find a way to deal with 100 gangbangers. A lone prepper, on the other hand, would be out of luck.

185 posted on 05/12/2012 6:32:25 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: panaxanax
What type of wastewater are you talking about?

What we in the 1st world would consider waste water.
i.e. - The water left in your cup after rinsing your mouth after brushing your teeth, the water you may have used for boiling eggs, etc.

Point taken on rising prices. It's not always about being a "prepper" or not.

186 posted on 05/12/2012 6:32:30 PM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: yarddog

I’m not complaining about the heat and humidity in Florida, just asking how to deal with preservation of foods in our climate — dried, canned, etc.

187 posted on 05/12/2012 6:34:38 PM PDT by varina davis (A real American patriot -- Gov. Rick Perry)
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To: Uncle Ike; The Cajun
Yep. I've been waiting for an answer because I want someone with experience to speak up. And it seems like Cajun gave a credible answer.

I can answer questions about my area, but hot and humid? Fergit it, not like Florida or Louisiana, no clues, but I want to learn.


188 posted on 05/12/2012 6:34:48 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

But the article is about TSHTF, and it’s written by a guy who clearly delights in the prospect of the “NP” getting their just desserts. When you post stuff like that on a big forum like this, you’re gonna get some criticism.

189 posted on 05/12/2012 6:35:23 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: JRandomFreeper

The native American Indians knew not to drink from stagnant water thousands of years ago. Back in Moses’ time, the reason for food being halal was due to health reasons. So, how many generations of third worlders have to be taught and re-taught simple skills they should have known and they still don’t get it. It’s not just cholera. How difficult is it to grasp this is a dried corn kernal, poke it into the ground, water it, when it sprouts pick the grasshoppers off it and in three months you have food? Heck, roast up those grasshoppers to stay alive. Surely, a handful of villagers can get together and hand dig a well for the tribe in a couple day’s time. But no, they wait for a do-gooder to build one for them while they let flies eat their babies. Helloooo, swat the dadgum flies and poop in a designated poo place and maybe, just maybe, your babies won’t die.

190 posted on 05/12/2012 6:37:20 PM PDT by bgill
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To: Yardstick

Your horse appears to be dead...please stop beating it already.

191 posted on 05/12/2012 6:38:41 PM PDT by I am bigjohn
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To: Yardstick; Admin Moderator
written by a guy who clearly delights in the prospect of the “NP” getting their just desserts

I didn't read that in the article.

As I said, you are not contributing to the community here on FR that is trying to exchange preparation information. Please sod off.


192 posted on 05/12/2012 6:39:17 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

When it all falls apart, just don’t give him any of your OtterPops, no matter how much he begs....ok?

193 posted on 05/12/2012 6:43:02 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: varina davis

When we lived on a farm, Mother canned a lot of vegetables and preserved fruits. We also had a smokehouse which was one of the most pleasant smelling places one could imagine.

After around 1955 we had a freezer which made everything much easier but if you are worried about electricity then canning, etc. would be the way to go.

I know a lot of people dry some kinds of produce but we didn’t do much of that.

194 posted on 05/12/2012 6:43:11 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: stanne

Berkey filters if you are going to stay in place.

Lifesaver Bottles if you are going to bugout or even stay in place.

Get the 6000 series from Lifesaver and buy the starter pack. It comes with an extra filter and extra pre filters.

The Lifesaver 6000 will deliver 1500 gallons of pure water anytime, anywhere and is the size of a Thermos. Enough water for 4 people for a year and with your second filter you’ll have enough water for 2 years.

195 posted on 05/12/2012 6:44:14 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: bgill
Everybody all over the world died like flies up until about 100 years ago, even native Americans. In 1918, western folks dropped like flies.

Our modern health is exactly that. Modern.

Word hasn't gotten out to all of the world yet.

Try not to be too smug. We aren't that far removed from them in time or space.


196 posted on 05/12/2012 6:44:29 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Thanx, Johnny!!!

I have my dried beans vacuum packed in the freezer. Good to know they can last that long. I planned on cracking or grinding them w/a mill, if necessary, if they got too old.

Dehydration would be great for a surplus of cooked beans. Not sure if sun drying would work here. If it is hot, then it is humid. But I will experiment to see how long it takes w/the dehydrator.

197 posted on 05/12/2012 6:45:44 PM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: Admin Moderator
My service mission is to feed folks, so I'll feed anyone that I can.

But if they are jerks, they might want to have invested in TP and Depends. ;)


198 posted on 05/12/2012 6:46:58 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: yarddog
I have recently begun canning meat as a hedge against the electricity going.

I have found to my delight how very convenient it is to grab a jar of ground beef out of the cupboard for use in my dinner.

I use as much from the jar as I need, then refrigerate the rest for later.

199 posted on 05/12/2012 6:49:35 PM PDT by I am bigjohn
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To: Vendome

I use to keep a large aloe plant in my kitchen window. snap off a piece and the slimmy stuff within the plant is what is used for burns...they make burn medication out of it and it takes the pain away...

200 posted on 05/12/2012 6:50:29 PM PDT by goat granny
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