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How Horrific Will It Be For The Non-Prepper?
SHTF Plan ^ | 5-12-2012 | Be Informed

Posted on 05/12/2012 2:48:24 PM PDT by blam

How Horrific Will It Be For The Non-Prepper?

Be Informed
May 12th, 2012

This article has been made available by regular SHTF Plan contributor Be Informed.

Editor’s Note: You have no doubt had your own set of issues dealing with friends and family members that simply don’t see the writing on the wall. The following article may serve to assist you in convincing those who simply don’t know, don’t want to know, don’t care, or have never even thought to contemplate. Some of the scenarios outlined below may be frightening, as they should be, because when it hits the fan millions of people will be thrown into desperation with no hope of a solution. Be Informed provides a variety of point-by-point details that may (and hopefully will) convince the non-prepared individual to at least insulate themselves with the basic necessities. The consequences for not doing so, as you’ll see, are severe and often deadly.


I have become personally so disenchanted with the way people fail to prep. People still don’t understand how important it is to put away. I have gotten into arguments over this and had cretins call me a fool because I put away food, water, and supplies. I thought about this and the frustration that other preppers have with this laid back idiotic attitude that there is no need for preparation. There are good people that just can’t/won’t start preparing. They have the money to do so, but just don’t want to. Many have only seen what happens to non-preppers on TV, but it still doesn’t make an impact.

In this article I detail some hard core realities to show just how awful it will be for those that don’t prep. Every one of these scenarios is something that has occurred to the non-prepper throughout history. While strong images come to mind, the purpose is to jar some people out of their inaction and into action before it is too late.

Preppers are good people and care much about those around them, and unless something does jar those around them that choose not to prep, their own survival chances could be reduced. For every bit of food, water, ammunition, or supplies you sacrifice to the non-prepper, the fewer irreplaceable supplies are left for you and your family in a crisis situation. It is hoped that the following can help certain people put into TRUE perspective just how horrific it will be for those that don’t prepare.

Here are the awful consequences for those refusing to prep.

As the world continues to decay at multiple facets, the common person has and continues to be lulled into a sense that everything is improving and will continue to for the distant future. After all, to them unemployment has peaked out and will drop until everyone that wants to work will easily be able to find good paying work, North Korea is no threat because all their long range “bottle rockets” fizz out, sanctions will eventually make Iran give up their nuclear program, oil prices will start going down after June or so, Europe will bail out Greece and Spain and everyone else, and U.S. debt will eventually come under control.

After 2012 everyone that has prepared themselves will go back to more “sensible” lives. “Good times are coming”, baseball season is here, let’s get back to watching some more crackerjack news.

It is amazing how people become good conversationalists with most others discussing all the gossip related news, while becoming mentally tranquilized into a totally deceptive state of denial of truly dangerous issues of the times. It’s the blind leading the blind… right off the cliff.

Rather than dealing with harsh reality, people surround themsleves with easy to digest material that can be talked about without directly influencing anyone’s lives. Meaningless chatter. Even for those unwilling to even think to prepare for a societal catastrophic event, there is also no desire to even face the extreme possibility of a sudden loss of one’s employment. A personal SHTF.

Look at some of the terrible personal pain experienced in America right now – and it hasn’t even hit the fan on a grand scale. Those people who have lived it up on credit, who failed to put much of anything away for a rainy day, who’ve lost their job, and who eventually lost their unemployment benefits are experiencing the first level of collapse. This is happening to millions of people in our own country, all around us, as we speak.

These Americans, who once enjoyed the luxuries that modern living had to offer, are now at their wits end, with very little hope for a return to their previous lives. They are no longer able to pay most or any of their bills. Many have to humiliatingly turn to others for help to pay for food, or worse, to obtain old, unhealthy and poor tasting food from locally funded food banks. Their credit cards are totally worthless. Many have been evicted from their homes and have uprooted their families to live either on the street, in tent cities, with relatives, or have been forced to live at homeless shelters, They’ve have had their vehicles repossessed, or simply can’t afford the gasoline anymore. Their living conditions often make it difficult, if not impossible, to look presentable for job interviews. For many, the life of stability they knew just a short while ago is gone, replaced with fear and a constant stress to the point of nervous breakdown.

A personal economic meltdown is confined to the individual or family, or at worst a few families. The human civilization remains intact and so do society’s safety nets.

With food assistance, rental assistance, homesless shelters, and family to turn to, even the most destitute are almost always able to find some sort of help – however menial.

It is no wonder with these known assistance programs, then, that people have forgotten or never thought to consider what happens IF and WHEN human civilization goes through a strong enough SHTF event. If that happens on a mass scale what happens to everyone that needs help that has not prepared ahead of time? What happens when governments are in such total disarray or destroyed altogether that they can’t help even if they wanted to?

The media and others have portrayed the good people that sacrifice much if not all “luxuries” of life to prepare themselves and their family and friends for extreme times, as chicken littles. Those who have made the choice to store up emergency food, water, and other necessities to avoid extreme life threatening risks, including suffering horribly during and after a widespread SHTF event, are laughed at and ridiculed often for “wasting” their lives on delusional paranoia.

But who is delusional? Those who see the signs around them and understand how vulnerable the system is, or those who believe that things never change, that politicians have their best interests at heart, and that if the worst happens the government will be there to provide everything they may need?

How many have considered the dire consequences of their failure to prepare in the event that the infrastructure and everything a country’s people depend on totally collapses?

The misery from long term unemployment and lack of money is like a walk in the park compared to the severe anguish and dangerous conditions that await those who have failed to prepare for the aftermath of a large scale cataclysm. The “minor” problems of unemployment that seem extremely major and painful to most today should serve as a wake up call to what life will be like when something much, much worse happens – when those proverbial safety nets are no longer there to catch us.

Many preppers have become deeply frustrated at those around them, especially those that truly mean something to them, because they simply refuse to put away anything at all for emergencies. The prepper is usually a person that cares a lot and it is often difficult for them to take a tough stance towards the people that they care about. However, unless someone changes the habits of those people that fail to get ready, decisions will need to be made, and they won’t be easy.

The choice of what the prepared prepper should do will boil down to either either adding these people to their own circle or survival group and reduce the group’s safety, supplies and self sufficiency, OR, they will have to let the non-prepper fend for themselves. This is a very personal choice, and each of us will need to decide based on our own morals, ethics and personal relationships.

As a last ditch effort, discussing the following scenarios with the non-prepper may help them understand what life will be like without what has sustained them so comfortably for so long.

This is the hard reality the non prepper needs to understand:

* Without power the water company cannot get water to their faucets. Without water dehydration occurs within 24 hours. Dehydration causes much suffering before death.

* Toilets in homes, unless they have an incineration toilet that still need power to work, don’t flush without water. Where will they go to the bathroom and then where will they dispose of human waste?

* There will be no clean water available anywhere, especially in major cities, and they cannot live more than about three days without it.

* Drinking dirty and polluted water will make them incredibly sick and accelerate the dehydration process.

* Polluted water must be purified and that means having a good filter, bleach or other disinfectant, or fuel and something to boil water with.

* Understand just how fragile the power and the infrastructure is that pumps water to the public. A breakdown in our power infrastructure or a cyber attack against utility systems will render them useless.

* A single event can rapidly lead to a cascade of other events that would certainly collapse almost, if not, everything. This is why major snow storms, hurricanes or solar events in the past have affected millions of people in an entire region all at once.

* A single, seemingly unimportant event may become quite terrible as its repercussions spread; this can include a far and away disaster.

* Understand that the economies of the world are so interwoven that when one major economy falls it affects everyone.

* Not having any food in the house means that if the stores are emptied suddenly in a bad enough situation that there will be no food available for a long period of time afterward. Recent history during disasters around the world has shown that stores can literally be emptied in minutes.

* Think about how totally horrible the feeling of being very hungry is and what circumstances would cause one to be desperate enough to eat anything.

* ALL stores can be closed instantly under martial law.

* Understand that you may not be able to purchase anything after it starts, especially with any credit cards.

* Understand the complexity of food and water distribution; breaks in these chains can stop anything from getting to the people.

* What life will be like if no toilet paper is stored? Understand that without light sources, the night will be pitch black, often with zero visibility.

* There will be no communications, other than probably martial law type of instructions over the radio, that is if they have batteries for the radio.

* Other than ham and shortwave radio, any information that is available will be sent out by the government as filtered propaganda that “they” want everyone to hear.

* Without power consider what it will be like to not have any heat to stay warm, or air conditioned air to stay cooler – with no way of alleviating the situation.

* Travelling will likely be by foot or bicycle, as there will be no fuel and roadways may be blocked.

* Realize that ANY travel outside of the home or neighborhood will be extremely dangerous as ANYONE who moves becomes a target

* Non preppers will be pushed way beyond their limit because of lack of supplies.

* The non prepper must realize their government does not really care about them individually, that they are a mere number and help will likely not come from them.

* They have to figure out somewhere to get food. This can mean wild plants which they must know how to identify as safe, or risk poisoning themselves.

* They have to understand that when we refer to “having no food” it doesn’t mean not having the food they are used to enjoying, it means no food to eat at all.

* They have to understand that if they are fortunate enough to have any running water, they will probably have to bathe in cold water for lack of stored fuel to heat water.

* They have to realize that the very strange and totally unexpected is going to be all around them, made that much worse because of lack of any reliable self defense stores or skills.

* They might have to remain on the run constantly because of looking for water and food.

* They must understand that bad will be magnified magnitudes to living misery because of lack of food, water, and other necessary items that they took for granted for so long.

Okay, now comes the “truly ugly and unthinkable” life that most, if not all, people that have failed and refused to prepare themselves will deal with. Clear vivid visualization is key here for anyone that ho hums the idea of prepping.

What horrors they will likely face after a cave-in of their nation’s economy, war, geophysical upheaval, or whatever crisis is bad enough to disturb or stop their nation from working and functioning? There are plenty of very potential SHTF events that are simply awaiting a catalyst to trigger them.

* The Non-Prepper (NP) has to realize right off the bat that 911 and other emergency calls in will be met with silence or some recording telling the caller not to panic.

* The (NP) that has no reliable self defense that can stop an attacker, will not get help from public services, and will become a victim of rape, assault, torture, or murder.

* The (NP) that has no reliable self defense and will not only be at the mercy of criminal elements, but also have to contend with many desperate animals, some with rabies.

* The (NP) that has no food will either have to find food or be ready to beg for food or worse, like sacrificing their bodies or other horrible acts or things to get a bite of food.

* The (NP) will have to go through the worst, most rancid conditions of garbage to just maybe find what they should have stored up.

* The (NP) will go through panic and near if not total psychosis looking for any water source right before their bodies begin shutting down during advanced stages of dehydration.

* The (NP) will go through unbearable trauma when their children and other people around them are crying, screaming, and suffering with intense hunger pains in their stomachs.

* The (NP) will have to deal with the awful stench of rotting wastes from many sources because they have not taken the effort to even store up waste disposal plastic bags.

* The (NP) will have disease and pathogens everywhere, not only because they have no trash disposal means, but because they haven’t prepared how to deal with trash and waste.

* The (NP) will have to live in very primitive conditions after things around them deteriorate rapidly, because they have neglected putting away anything to make life more bearable.

* The (NP) and those around them will likely develop all sorts of infective skin rashes from the lack of insight of storing up toilet paper. Imagine the smell for a moment.

* The (NP) will have to handle biting insects and other vermin that will collect amoungst the filth that will pile up. No pest control stored up along with no other supplies.

The (NP) will have no way of treating sickness certain to follow a SHTF event, no first aid and likely no training or knowledge about how to treat the ill on top of this.

* The (NP) will have sick and dying people around them because of not being able to treat minor injuries. Didn’t even stock up on disinfectives. Unsanitary conditions lead to infection.

* The (NP) and others around them will experience much grief as they watch helplessly as their family members literally die of starvation right in front of their eyes.

* The (NP) won’t believe how desperate hunger drives them and those that mean everything to them to “trying” to eat food that taste so bad it gags them and comes back up.

* The (NP) will likely have family and friends around them that have also not prepared committing suicide because they can’t take it any longer.

* The (NP) will witness some of those people around them lose any sense of civilized humanity in them and behave like wild animals after some time from lack of necessities.

* The (NP) and family members, maybe friends also, will at some point end up barbecuing or eating raw the family dog, cat, bird, any pet dear to everyone for food.

* The (NP) will likely get into physical fights with other family members over any scrap of food available as rational thoughts are lost to wanton hunger.

* The (NP) as many other (NP’s) will eventually go out of any safety of their home looking for food and or water, become disorientated and lost, and die a hard death somewhere.

* The (NP) that is “lucky” enough to find some government help will likely have to almost sell their soul, probably all their freedom, to get tiny rations – just enough to keep them alive.

* The (NP) will see widespread violence and barbarism that will shock them to the core and will wish that they had purchased some form of firearm and stocked up on ammunition.

* The (NP) better get used to attempting to explain the children and other adults why they wasted all that money on junk, and didn’t buy any emergency food and other supplies.

* The (NP), no matter how positive they are will drop quickly into depression and lose willpower as having nothing to hold on to does this, along with lack of any nutrition.

* The (NP) will feel the worst guilt imaginable as they hear their family moaning in anguish from lack of anything to eat, knowing they could have done something to prepare.

* The (NP) will most likely not see the rebuilding and recovery after A SHTF event. They will, like almost all NP’s, be statistics. Some will die hours or a day before help arrives.

* The (NP) from lack of food, drinking bad water, no light at night, the horrid smells, no good self defense, the overall horror, will often be paralyzed with fear and despair, blank stare.

* The (NP) is totally helpless after SHTF, will have to rely totally on charity of those prepared to live. They will take all sorts of desperate measures likely to get them shot. They’ll attempt to eat hazardous foods like an animal trapped in a house will do, and get sick and suffer much before dying. The (NP) will likely die (ugly and hard) as they lived, unprepared for anything.

If we were to use one single word to describe the torments that someone who “chooses” not to prepare will go through after a true you know what hits the fan it would be “PREVENTABLE”.

Almost every single person, even a very poor person, has the capacity to put away emergency food and supplies. Even homeless people have stashes of something just in case things become so bad that the normal hand outs and thrown-away items dry up. Many people with good sources of income don’t even have an extra can of food or any water put away at all. This is stupidity beyond words.

Every day lightweight disasters happen in all parts of the world that disturb services enough that people are confined to their homes for a certain amount of time. While recovery is short, people are still uncomfortable during these times. Look what happens after a power outage at night and you will be mystified at how many homes are completely dark for hours. People have not even bought an extra couple of candles or any battery operated light sources. Even in well-to-do neighborhoods you may hear only a lone generator going after a blackout. This lack of preparedness is truly frightening and plays itself out again, again, and again every time services are disrupted for minor to major reasons. It’s as if there is something wrong with storing extra food, water, and supplies.

Even after “lessons” played out to what happens to those non-prepared, most people still feel that it just cannot happen to them, or won’t ever happen to them again. It should be proof enough to people what happens to those unprepared after disasters simply by looking at those that have gone through it firsthand. The difference, though, comes in that these disasters have had recovery periods and help from others. Even Haiti received some help and conditions remain putrid over there.

After a TRUE SHTF, it is presumable that government help and others coming to the aid of those in need WON’T happen for long periods of time. During that time those that have chosen to not put food, water, and necessities away are going to be in life threatening positions. Most people just don’t get that when the supermarket shelves are empty they will stay that way for an extended period. When the utilities go down, especially water, it may be weeks, months, or longer before they come back, if ever. Without what someone needs to survive each day, it is not going to magically appear, and depending on the goodwill of others to feed them and sacrifice their own family’s survival chances is a terrible choice.

People MUST know what life will be like after SHTF in mega fashion if they refuse to prepare. This is NOT new. Terrible events have plunged people into the deepest levels of desperation and hopelessness, and they will happen again and again.

While the above consequences to the non-prepper are extremely abysmal for anyone to read, the simple fact of the matter is they have already happened time and time again to those that have nothing put away. People have resorted to cannibalism and gone to levels of primitive savage behavior out of shear desperation and out of literally losing their minds to the physical depletion of food and water that keeps the physical body operating. Sometimes showing the extreme severity and results of a person’s lack of action, such as failure of the simple act of putting away extra food, water, and supplies, can be the kick in the complacency that they need.

It’s really easy to put away food and supplies. All one has to do is add a little bit of extra food to the grocery cart for long-term storage. Over time this adds up to a well stocked pantry of supplies.

There is something that is in a can of food that everyone can eat and enjoy the taste of, so talk to family members about their nutritional preferences and start stocking up. Toilet paper and other supplies that really don’t have any expiration date can be put away and forgotten about ’til needed.

There MUST be common sense and intelligence to see what happens IF they don’t stock up for the future. There has to be the DESIRE to get started, and this is the real problem with so many.

Once started, however, prepping becomes a type of life saving routine or positive lifestyle habit. It is easy and can and will save one from misery. It may save their life and the lives of their family from ruin when SHTF, which is almost inevitably going to happen someday. Every month and year that goes by without a true SHTF event, makes it more likely that it will happen. Basic statistical chance shows this to be the case, but people continue the same pattern of behavior that has led them to the same devastation countless time before.

For those preppers that have people around them that refuse to prepare, you can at least have some degree of solace knowing that you tried to show the non-prepping person(s) what not having anything will mean to them and their families.

All we can do is try. Once we’ve given it our best shot, all we can do is let those who have been warned about the direness of the possibilities live their lives the way that want to. They will, unfortunately, live in a world of regret and suffering if the nation and the world falls apart around them.

To every action there is an opposite equal reaction. Preppers will see their efforts have been more than worth it. Objects that are motionless tend to remain motionless and non-preppers will find there are horrific consequences for their lack of effort and motion to put away “life insurance” preps for themselves and their families.

TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: collapse; doomsday; doomsdayscenario; preppers; prepping; shtf; survival
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To: JRandomFreeper

Do you have any bean (or other survival food) recipes that you could share?

I have a slow cooker recipe that I’ve used for my beans which I like, but I could use some stove top or survival-type cooking recipes (those that will not require electricity?)

Thanks so much.

401 posted on 05/13/2012 11:43:58 AM PDT by NoKoolAidforMe (I'm clinging to my God and my guns. You can keep the change.)
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To: Yardstick
Seemed appropriate to pull up something from a 5 1/4" floppy because I haven't seen behavior like yours since the old newsgroup days.

Go away. Don't prep. We get your position. You hate us for being prepared because it rocks your world view, and you have to ascribe hateful malice to those that would prep, and because we think those that don't may be emotionally or mentally challenged.


402 posted on 05/13/2012 11:44:41 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

When the SHTF, we’re going to be in deep doo-doo. Living in Palm Beach County is great during normal times, but should a natural or a man-made disaster hit us, we’re stuck. The main arteries north will be like parking lots. Both my wife and I are dependent on prescription meds and can’t ever get any more than a 90-day supply. I guess I can go to COSTCO every couple of weeks for a large package of TP, fill up old milk jugs with filtered water, buy a couple of cans of Spam and canned pineapples every time I go to Publix. I have a couple of handguns with some ammo; guess I ought to buy a box or two every month. If we head west, we’ll get wet in the ‘Glades and probably get suffocated by one of the many Burmese pythons that the idiots released there, if the gators don’t get us first. Let’s hope this doesn’t happen.

403 posted on 05/13/2012 11:45:58 AM PDT by Ax
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To: NoKoolAidforMe
The bean recipe that you use in the slow cooker will work just as well over a camp-fire, or actually, near a camp fire. I always make the same bean recipe whether in a commercial kitchen or out in the field. Just be aware of, and control the heat by placement of your pot.

Here is the draft of an article that I'm working on about poverty food:

Poverty food

Poverty food

Like oriental food? Like Italian? Mexican or Tex-mex? Cajun? Scandanavian food? What do all these foods have in common? They are poverty foods. The ones that everyone eats everyday.

Take Oriental food... It's cheap stuff. Local. Cooked simple. And good. And some of it takes time.

Same with all the rest.

The traditional food of the people is the cheap stuff that is available prepared with care and whatever time it takes.

What does that mean for preparedness? You may not be able to get stuff you eat normally. But you can eat well with local stuff, or people wouldn't be living where you live. And don't give me that excuse about living in the city. Pigeon is edible. And good, done well. Baby pigeons can fetch $28 a plate done well enough in the right restaurant.

And those weeds you walk by every day? Your great-grandparents waited for them to show up in spring.

All this pre-supposes that you have the knowledge to use the available resources and the training to turn those resources into mouthwatering meals. And that means you have to study.


What makes food good, instead of just something to eat to keep from dying? Flavor, texure, smell, familiarity and perceived value.

Start with good, fresh, local ingredients. Learn to identify them, and how to cook them, and when they are in season. I can't help you with details since I don't live where you do.

Take a little time now to add some traditional spices to your landscaping. I can get cilantro, cumin, basil, rosemary, thyme, garlic (volunteer and cultivated), onions (native and cultivated), and several types of local herbs and peppers within a two minute walk from my back door. Those spices and herbs can go a long way to making your food taste better and seem more familiar. Squirrel pot pie tastes a lot like chicken pot pie if you have the same spices in it.

Learn how to cook. Learn the basics of frying, sauteing, braising, roasting and baking. Some of that requires a mentor to teach you. Find one. Commercial cooks like to show off and talk about food and techniques.

One thing I see a lot with home cooks is a fear of 'burning' something that is just getting some color and flavor. Black doesn't mean burned. Scorched flavor means burned.

When I make a stock for soup, I sweat the onions, carrots, and garlic for flavor. If I want a 'blanc' stock, I don't let them get much color, but for things like game, and a 'brun' stock, I saute them pretty hard, well past what most home cooks are comfortable with. It's ok if they have some black spots on them, if they don't tasted scorched or burned. And the depth of flavor they add can make a dish work.

And it's ok to screw up when you practice. Burn it? Toss it and try again. Failure is part of the learning process.

None of this requires expensive equipment. I've cooked over an open wood fire on 50 year old pans for 300 GIs. And they like the rations that they got, with some additions from local sources. Even GI spaghetti in a can is palatable if you can enhance it a little with techniques and a few local additions.

Menu Fatigue.

Audience. The people you are cooking for have regional tastes.

It's a work in progress. I'll eventually finish it and post it on it's own thread someday.


404 posted on 05/13/2012 11:53:11 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper
The problem you have, right now, is that I'm not the one who posted an article referring to the other side as "idiotic".

You don't get to just drop little bombs like that and not get called on it.

And that's ignoring the larger point that the article is clearly coming from a writer who is writing out of anger and vindictiveness. Here's another little snippet:

"I have gotten into arguments over this and had cretins call me a fool because I put away food, water, and supplies."

This guy sounds like a kicked dog and the rest of the piece sounds like a big get-even. It's one thing to start a thread with practical tips about how long to soak your beans or whatever, it's another to start it with an airing of grievances like you did this time.

Again, you need to understand that when you post obnoxious stuff on an open forum, there's a good chance you're going to get some criticism.

405 posted on 05/13/2012 11:59:49 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: JRandomFreeper

Do you have some suggestions on your home roasting green coffee? I would absolutely love to know the ins and outs on the best way to do just that!

406 posted on 05/13/2012 12:00:13 PM PDT by JDoutrider
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To: JDoutrider has a great website that can guide you. Those techniques work, and I've used many of them. Disclaimer... I do buy from them sometimes, but prices are high right now and will come down during harvest season.


407 posted on 05/13/2012 12:05:38 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

After I posted, I realized that if she does any fiber work: knitting/weaving/felting, she likely uses the dryer to *full* the finished product. This is a final stage in all the fiber fabric crafts and it causes the wool to *bloom* (ie: get softer and have a nice final hand), plus it adds just a bit more shrinkage to any felting. Even on low heat, there would be lint. But you’re right about the angora and even the alpaca and llama: they just are attracted to all other fabric.

Cat hair is smooth (no little barbs,and it doesn’t shrink like wool) and so does not felt. It does matt, as any cat parent knows. So, if you bought some felting needles (fine ones), you could place your mat on a thick piece of dense foam (to absorb the needle strikes—those needles can be deadly) and just keep needling the accumulated cat hair into the mat. The thing is that needled felt isn’t as well fixed as wet felt, even when everything is wool. Your cat could just pull the hair off the mat by kneading or even rolling around on it. I have seen some cat hair needle felted onto sculptures. The synthetic felt available commercially and most industrial felt filters are needle felt, but that is done by machines made to tangle the fiber completely and then needle it to itself. I have read that needled human hair was/is(?) used for peanut butter production filters.

Best I can think of would be to 1) needle the shed hair into the mat and 2) then lay a thin fresh layer of any wool on top, needle in place, then wet with hot water (opens the fiber), roll up as you observed (provides compression) and then roll the place mat package around (provides pressure/agitation) until everything is adhered. You need to periodically unroll and check the process. I use mosquito netting and those rubber shelf liners for boats instead of a bamboo mat because you can see through the netting and only have to unroll the shelf liner a bit to check. Or ask your fiber friend to add the layers. She’ll know how.

408 posted on 05/13/2012 12:07:10 PM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: Yardstick
People that don't prepare for life's problems are idiots.

You have called me on it. Go elsewhere.


409 posted on 05/13/2012 12:07:35 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: reformedliberal
If I actually did that for 2 or 3 years, with the way my catz shed, I wouldn't be able to roll it. I'd have to modify the cheese press or the bearing press in the garage to apply pressure. ;)


410 posted on 05/13/2012 12:10:57 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper


Have you ever done thermos cooking or used a haybox or Wonder Box ( or any other device to hold the heat in for a long time w/o added fuel?

These are on my list of things to try. Doubt you could cook for 300 this way, but probably for 8-10.

411 posted on 05/13/2012 12:18:46 PM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: stanne
Anyway, any advise on a stove and/or water purification system?

or just google: survival water purification systems and take your pick. I would recommend to start off with a backpacker style pump, then figure out how much water you will actually require.

412 posted on 05/13/2012 12:19:09 PM PDT by Sarajevo (
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To: blam
* The (NP) that has no reliable self defense and will not only be at the mercy of criminal elements, but also have to contend with many desperate animals, some with rabies.

* The (NP) that has no food will either have to find food or be ready to beg for food or worse, like sacrificing their bodies or other horrible acts or things to get a bite of food.

* The (NP) will have to go through the worst, most rancid conditions of garbage to just maybe find what they should have stored up.

* The (NP) will go through panic and near if not total psychosis looking for any water source right before their bodies begin shutting down during advanced stages of dehydration.

* The (NP) will go through unbearable trauma when their children and other people around them are crying, screaming, and suffering with intense hunger pains in their stomachs.


And all because mom and dad didn't spring for private school?

Phillips Academy looks pretty good compared to dying, starving, dehydrated and psychotic.

Though if it means going to St. Paul's, I'll take my chances dying in the gutter with unbearable trauma.

413 posted on 05/13/2012 12:19:21 PM PDT by x
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To: JRandomFreeper

Oh, sure you would! Do it every 6 months if you think it is really thick and you’ll see how it matts down.

Cat hair and even wool compresses a lot when wet. You needle first just to tack it down if using a fresh layer of wool. That compresses with better results than a manual press. The cat hair would 1) stick to the top plate and 2) rebound after being pressed. Needle also holds in place, while just applying pressure doesn’t. Combining wet method w/needle method is easier on the arm/elbow/shoulder, too. Doing a lot of needle felting results in joint strain from overuse.

My hot pads start out about 2” thick and when finished are barely 1/2” thick. I forgot to add that you should unroll, check for holes (needle over w/fresh fiber if necessary) and then roll in an opposite direction. so, you roll lengthwise, widthwise and then diagonally for the best even result.

Felting machines that use fixed plates have the ability to vibrate slightly over rollers to actually produce felt and even those aren’t as controllable as the hand method.

414 posted on 05/13/2012 12:29:25 PM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: reformedliberal
I've cooked on a car engine on road trips, and kept stuff hot in a compost pile, but never done the thermos cooking.

I do regularly use a gigantic Igloo cooler that is big enough for commercial half pans to move stuff for catering events. Generally it finishes cooking in the Igloos, and stays plenty warm.


415 posted on 05/13/2012 12:34:04 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

I bought an 1100 gallon black polypropylene agricultural tank 3 years ago and put it under the rather large deck we were building at the time. Piped a couple of gutter downspouts into it and use it for irrigation water, with the idea that with a good filter I could use it for drinking water in an emergency. We were in a declared drought at the time, so outdoor water use was severely curtailed, and I wanted to make sure I had water available for all the new back yard plantings associated with the project. That Fall, the skies opened up, the lakes filled, the drought ended, along with the outdoor water use restrictions. Still glad I have the tank, it saves me a little money on irrigation, and there’s the prepper aspect to having it there.

I wish I had gotten the 1500 gallon one that was the same diameter but a tad taller. We were having a little trouble getting it on the trailer I had rented, but I think we could have with a little finagling. It would have still worked with my deck height and the horizontal piping fall (one of the downspouts is about 45’ away).

416 posted on 05/13/2012 12:46:49 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: blam

My flippant answer was going to be “Well, someone has to be the one who ends up as zombie-chow”, but the truth is that “preppers” have one distinct disadvantage that the “unprepared” don’t: They’re anchored to the one spot where they’ve cached their supplies.

If you have 10 tons of supplies in the basement, then you’re incapable of straying from that basement. There’s also another word for that big pile of goodies: bait. You will eventually be overrun by those seeking to steal all those supplies you carefully put away.

To be truly prepared for that SHTF day, you have to be capable of finding food, water, and shelter anywhere. You need to have a treasure trove stashed away between your ears, not in the basement! Yes, you need some stuff stashed away, but not more than you can carry. Someone with half a Wal-mart in their basement is going to die surrounded by all that junk. The guy who can pick up and run like hell is the one who’s going to survive.

417 posted on 05/13/2012 12:50:51 PM PDT by Redcloak (Mitt Romney: Puttin' the "Country club" back in "Republican".)
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To: Redcloak
So don't prepare. You will be far ahead of those of us that do, by your logic.

However, since I'm prepping for tornados and severe wind events, and not hordes of zombies, I think I'll keep on doing what I'm doing, if you don't mind too much.

After all, having all those supplies and the skills to use them kept me fed after the market crash in 2008.


418 posted on 05/13/2012 12:57:50 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Ax

Look on the bright side: you’re not pregnant!

419 posted on 05/13/2012 12:58:02 PM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: papertyger


420 posted on 05/13/2012 12:58:51 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: freedommom

Is that the stuff we pick out of pinto beans and looks like something out of a volcano?

421 posted on 05/13/2012 1:17:40 PM PDT by Library Lady
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To: DuncanWaring
"Run the generator for a while at its max-efficiency power to charge the battery, then use the battery to power the fan via the inverter. "

Good advice. Thanks.

422 posted on 05/13/2012 1:26:49 PM PDT by blam
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To: Redcloak

It’s good to be prepared for both scenarios - shelter in place or bug out. A friend bought a little trailer that he can hook up to his jeep and go find a place to camp. He has food and water and gasoline and other stuff that he can load in there and take to the hills if his house becomes uninhabitable. It may be that you’ll want to stay in your home, because exit roads may be blocked, but it doesn’t make sense to always plan to bug out, any more than it makes sense to always shelter in place.

One way to be sure you’ll get food is to join one of the volunteer groups that responds to emergencies. Here’s a set of links to some of the state defense force websites - these folks will be working alongside the National Guard units - Chances are that they will be good to have around when the zombie apocalypse takes place, too.

On a related subject, I got into a conversation with some folks in a grocery store parking lot who were curious about the ham radio antenna on my car. Two of them walked away, and the guy who was left told me that the other two were preppers. He said “I know where I’m going when the SHTF.” I asked him where, and he said “I’m going up.” Clueless, I said “Where? Prescott? Flagstaff?” He said “No, up there” and pointed to the sky. So this guy’s brilliant SHTF emergency plan is to die! I smiled and waved goodbye. Jeez.

423 posted on 05/13/2012 1:27:05 PM PDT by Tarantulas ( Illegal immigration - the trojan horse that's treated like a sacred cow)
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To: blam

I’m planning to do something like that as a backup-power supply for my sump pump and fireplace blower motor.

424 posted on 05/13/2012 1:33:34 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Kartographer

Many of the pretribers will be shocked when the SHTF and they are still here.

425 posted on 05/13/2012 1:38:32 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Grammar & spelling maybe wrong, get over it, the world will not come to an end!)
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To: I am bigjohn

I have canned stew beef but never ground beef. How do you do that? Fry it first?

426 posted on 05/13/2012 1:40:06 PM PDT by Library Lady
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To: Library Lady

With ground beef, I cook it first, add beef bullion to cover, then pressure can at 10 lbs for 75 minutes(pint jars).

427 posted on 05/13/2012 1:49:06 PM PDT by I am bigjohn
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To: Redcloak
"The guy who can pick up and run like hell is the one who’s going to survive."

An old guy (like me) wandering in the wilderness will be dead before sundown.

Running where(?) without any supplies or support into an area that is completely unknown encountering desperate strangers who are also on the run and running into other heavily defended areas where already panicked and frightened people are awaiting your intrusion.

No thanks.

We decided early on to stay put and fight.

I am in a rural area surrounded by like minded people who are prepared to the hilt and are supporting the whole community.

If the worst case happens, we are prepared to blockade roadways (yes, we have heavy equipment) and man bunkers at strategic points.

It is my position that the worst will not happen...bad things will probably happen but not a total breakdown. We prepare as much as we can for a total collapse though.

About being over-run...I have a number of caches (PVC pipes) buried underground within walking distance to my house...these caches contain additional firearms, 3-4 days food, first aid and etc. I can retreat to those points and 'catch-my-breathe', so to speak.

If I die even with all this prepardness...shit happens.

428 posted on 05/13/2012 2:00:53 PM PDT by blam
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To: Sarajevo

I will take it under advisement. Thank you, Sarajevo.

429 posted on 05/13/2012 2:01:46 PM PDT by stanne
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To: Library Lady

biochar is charcoal—what remains from a burned out fire...
if you use it you blow out the charcoal first...

430 posted on 05/13/2012 2:04:30 PM PDT by freedommom
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To: blam
Running where(?) without any supplies or support into an area that is completely unknown encountering desperate strangers who are also on the run and running into other heavily defended areas where already panicked and frightened people are awaiting your intrusion.

Refugees? No thanks.

The above sounds like the Dome after Katrina, except for the running part.

431 posted on 05/13/2012 2:05:24 PM PDT by SCalGal (Friends don't let friends donate to H$U$ or PETA.)
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To: papertyger

I guess we should be counting our blessings then, PT.

432 posted on 05/13/2012 2:07:54 PM PDT by Ax
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To: Tarantulas
HF antenna?


433 posted on 05/13/2012 2:15:37 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Salgak
I have a Gerber Mark II Combat,

I'm cringing. Those blades are brittle. I broke the tip off of mine when I threw it into a piece of plywood. It is also a PITA to sharpen and keep sharp. I have long since ground down the blade to use as a dive knife.

And in a pinch, there’s always the bayonet that came with my Mosin-Nagant... (evil grin)

(Eviler grin) I like the way you think!

434 posted on 05/13/2012 2:25:03 PM PDT by Sarajevo (
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To: blam
Same here. I've run this neighborhood since I was big enough to escape the house. I know every tree and every rock in the creek. I could navigate blind (and have, after some of the block parties) in a several block area around my house.

I know every dog, and it's name. I know what several of my neighbors have for firearms and what calibers. I can list the contents of about 5 freezers within 2 minutes walking distance.

Why the heck would I want to go to a 'collection point' to get some MREs and listen to babies cry, when I can stay here with friends and neighbors all around and have yet another block party with stone soup.


435 posted on 05/13/2012 2:25:36 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Sarajevo

Well. considering it’s not a THROWING blade, I don’t consider that an issue. And yes, it does tend to be a bit brittle. Every type of steel has it’s pluses and minuses. The Mark II is descended from the Fairbairn-Sykes. It’s designed for. . . fleshy targets. . . not wood. . . (still eviller grin)

436 posted on 05/13/2012 2:59:16 PM PDT by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: Yardstick
From post #399

You are an insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and then died of shame in recognition of what they had done. They were a bit late.

The best description I've seen for you ,If you have anything positive to add go ahead or S T F U

437 posted on 05/13/2012 3:08:22 PM PDT by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: Salgak
It’s designed for. . . fleshy targets. . . not wood. . . (still eviller grin)

I was a young knuckle-dragger who thought he could throw a knife with the best of them. The team sergeant wouldn't let me practice on the guys though.....

Personally, I would rather carry a K-bar, or even better is a Kalashnikov bayonet. That is a real useful tool.

Heh-heh! Your evil grins are killin' me ;)

438 posted on 05/13/2012 3:14:58 PM PDT by Sarajevo (
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To: Sarajevo

I have a Cold Steel Scout Recon. Heavy blade but razor sharp and it won’t break. There are lots of good knives. A good folding and straight blade are essential for each person.

I also buy some of the cheaper knives as disposable but wouldn’t trust my life to them.

439 posted on 05/13/2012 3:24:06 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: I am bigjohn

Thanks. I will try that.

440 posted on 05/13/2012 3:28:22 PM PDT by Library Lady
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To: Sarajevo

Oh, I HAVE throwing blades, but consider them a novelty.

If I wanted a silent bladed kill. . . .I’d break out a crossbow (I have several. . . )

I like the idea of projectile armament that can’t run out of cartridges (although after ~10 solid target hits, a bolt is pretty much shot, that’s still 9 more shots than I get out a single bullet. . .)

441 posted on 05/13/2012 3:37:31 PM PDT by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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442 posted on 05/13/2012 4:13:13 PM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Would it work to make dark roast out of perhaps the eight o’clock beans in the brown bag, by roasting them in an air popper to a much darker color?

443 posted on 05/13/2012 4:41:40 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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I don't know. I've never tried that. But a double handful of beans is a small price to pay for such an experiment.

Let me know if you do try it. I would, but the only coffee I have here is the green beans, and the stuff I already dark roasted.


444 posted on 05/13/2012 4:49:23 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: piroque

Maybe I could try to think up a few more torments for the NPs to add the list.

Would that be positive enough for you?

445 posted on 05/13/2012 5:02:19 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: blam
Preparedness for Dark Times
446 posted on 05/13/2012 5:41:22 PM PDT by blam
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To: stanne

For spare mags order from CDNN Investments... do a web search for the address.

447 posted on 05/13/2012 5:56:06 PM PDT by El Laton Caliente (NRA Life Member & Moderator)
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Here is a link with info on home roasting -

448 posted on 05/13/2012 6:04:05 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: blam


449 posted on 05/13/2012 6:39:19 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: driftdiver

Thanks very much! From reading the linked data, I will avoid ruining the eight o’clock beans by second roasting them. When the harvests hit, I’ll try roasting the green beans in the pop corn popper. Again, thanks for the link.

450 posted on 05/13/2012 6:47:14 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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