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How Horrific Will It Be For The Non-Prepper?
SHTF Plan ^ | 5-12-2012 | Be Informed

Posted on 05/12/2012 2:48:24 PM PDT by blam

How Horrific Will It Be For The Non-Prepper?

Be Informed
May 12th, 2012
SHTFplan

This article has been made available by regular SHTF Plan contributor Be Informed.

Editor’s Note: You have no doubt had your own set of issues dealing with friends and family members that simply don’t see the writing on the wall. The following article may serve to assist you in convincing those who simply don’t know, don’t want to know, don’t care, or have never even thought to contemplate. Some of the scenarios outlined below may be frightening, as they should be, because when it hits the fan millions of people will be thrown into desperation with no hope of a solution. Be Informed provides a variety of point-by-point details that may (and hopefully will) convince the non-prepared individual to at least insulate themselves with the basic necessities. The consequences for not doing so, as you’ll see, are severe and often deadly.

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I have become personally so disenchanted with the way people fail to prep. People still don’t understand how important it is to put away. I have gotten into arguments over this and had cretins call me a fool because I put away food, water, and supplies. I thought about this and the frustration that other preppers have with this laid back idiotic attitude that there is no need for preparation. There are good people that just can’t/won’t start preparing. They have the money to do so, but just don’t want to. Many have only seen what happens to non-preppers on TV, but it still doesn’t make an impact.

In this article I detail some hard core realities to show just how awful it will be for those that don’t prep. Every one of these scenarios is something that has occurred to the non-prepper throughout history. While strong images come to mind, the purpose is to jar some people out of their inaction and into action before it is too late.

Preppers are good people and care much about those around them, and unless something does jar those around them that choose not to prep, their own survival chances could be reduced. For every bit of food, water, ammunition, or supplies you sacrifice to the non-prepper, the fewer irreplaceable supplies are left for you and your family in a crisis situation. It is hoped that the following can help certain people put into TRUE perspective just how horrific it will be for those that don’t prepare.

Here are the awful consequences for those refusing to prep.

As the world continues to decay at multiple facets, the common person has and continues to be lulled into a sense that everything is improving and will continue to for the distant future. After all, to them unemployment has peaked out and will drop until everyone that wants to work will easily be able to find good paying work, North Korea is no threat because all their long range “bottle rockets” fizz out, sanctions will eventually make Iran give up their nuclear program, oil prices will start going down after June or so, Europe will bail out Greece and Spain and everyone else, and U.S. debt will eventually come under control.

After 2012 everyone that has prepared themselves will go back to more “sensible” lives. “Good times are coming”, baseball season is here, let’s get back to watching some more crackerjack news.

It is amazing how people become good conversationalists with most others discussing all the gossip related news, while becoming mentally tranquilized into a totally deceptive state of denial of truly dangerous issues of the times. It’s the blind leading the blind… right off the cliff.

Rather than dealing with harsh reality, people surround themsleves with easy to digest material that can be talked about without directly influencing anyone’s lives. Meaningless chatter. Even for those unwilling to even think to prepare for a societal catastrophic event, there is also no desire to even face the extreme possibility of a sudden loss of one’s employment. A personal SHTF.

Look at some of the terrible personal pain experienced in America right now – and it hasn’t even hit the fan on a grand scale. Those people who have lived it up on credit, who failed to put much of anything away for a rainy day, who’ve lost their job, and who eventually lost their unemployment benefits are experiencing the first level of collapse. This is happening to millions of people in our own country, all around us, as we speak.

These Americans, who once enjoyed the luxuries that modern living had to offer, are now at their wits end, with very little hope for a return to their previous lives. They are no longer able to pay most or any of their bills. Many have to humiliatingly turn to others for help to pay for food, or worse, to obtain old, unhealthy and poor tasting food from locally funded food banks. Their credit cards are totally worthless. Many have been evicted from their homes and have uprooted their families to live either on the street, in tent cities, with relatives, or have been forced to live at homeless shelters, They’ve have had their vehicles repossessed, or simply can’t afford the gasoline anymore. Their living conditions often make it difficult, if not impossible, to look presentable for job interviews. For many, the life of stability they knew just a short while ago is gone, replaced with fear and a constant stress to the point of nervous breakdown.

A personal economic meltdown is confined to the individual or family, or at worst a few families. The human civilization remains intact and so do society’s safety nets.

With food assistance, rental assistance, homesless shelters, and family to turn to, even the most destitute are almost always able to find some sort of help – however menial.

It is no wonder with these known assistance programs, then, that people have forgotten or never thought to consider what happens IF and WHEN human civilization goes through a strong enough SHTF event. If that happens on a mass scale what happens to everyone that needs help that has not prepared ahead of time? What happens when governments are in such total disarray or destroyed altogether that they can’t help even if they wanted to?

The media and others have portrayed the good people that sacrifice much if not all “luxuries” of life to prepare themselves and their family and friends for extreme times, as chicken littles. Those who have made the choice to store up emergency food, water, and other necessities to avoid extreme life threatening risks, including suffering horribly during and after a widespread SHTF event, are laughed at and ridiculed often for “wasting” their lives on delusional paranoia.

But who is delusional? Those who see the signs around them and understand how vulnerable the system is, or those who believe that things never change, that politicians have their best interests at heart, and that if the worst happens the government will be there to provide everything they may need?

How many have considered the dire consequences of their failure to prepare in the event that the infrastructure and everything a country’s people depend on totally collapses?

The misery from long term unemployment and lack of money is like a walk in the park compared to the severe anguish and dangerous conditions that await those who have failed to prepare for the aftermath of a large scale cataclysm. The “minor” problems of unemployment that seem extremely major and painful to most today should serve as a wake up call to what life will be like when something much, much worse happens – when those proverbial safety nets are no longer there to catch us.

Many preppers have become deeply frustrated at those around them, especially those that truly mean something to them, because they simply refuse to put away anything at all for emergencies. The prepper is usually a person that cares a lot and it is often difficult for them to take a tough stance towards the people that they care about. However, unless someone changes the habits of those people that fail to get ready, decisions will need to be made, and they won’t be easy.

The choice of what the prepared prepper should do will boil down to either either adding these people to their own circle or survival group and reduce the group’s safety, supplies and self sufficiency, OR, they will have to let the non-prepper fend for themselves. This is a very personal choice, and each of us will need to decide based on our own morals, ethics and personal relationships.

As a last ditch effort, discussing the following scenarios with the non-prepper may help them understand what life will be like without what has sustained them so comfortably for so long.

This is the hard reality the non prepper needs to understand:

* Without power the water company cannot get water to their faucets. Without water dehydration occurs within 24 hours. Dehydration causes much suffering before death.

* Toilets in homes, unless they have an incineration toilet that still need power to work, don’t flush without water. Where will they go to the bathroom and then where will they dispose of human waste?

* There will be no clean water available anywhere, especially in major cities, and they cannot live more than about three days without it.

* Drinking dirty and polluted water will make them incredibly sick and accelerate the dehydration process.

* Polluted water must be purified and that means having a good filter, bleach or other disinfectant, or fuel and something to boil water with.

* Understand just how fragile the power and the infrastructure is that pumps water to the public. A breakdown in our power infrastructure or a cyber attack against utility systems will render them useless.

* A single event can rapidly lead to a cascade of other events that would certainly collapse almost, if not, everything. This is why major snow storms, hurricanes or solar events in the past have affected millions of people in an entire region all at once.

* A single, seemingly unimportant event may become quite terrible as its repercussions spread; this can include a far and away disaster.

* Understand that the economies of the world are so interwoven that when one major economy falls it affects everyone.

* Not having any food in the house means that if the stores are emptied suddenly in a bad enough situation that there will be no food available for a long period of time afterward. Recent history during disasters around the world has shown that stores can literally be emptied in minutes.

* Think about how totally horrible the feeling of being very hungry is and what circumstances would cause one to be desperate enough to eat anything.

* ALL stores can be closed instantly under martial law.

* Understand that you may not be able to purchase anything after it starts, especially with any credit cards.

* Understand the complexity of food and water distribution; breaks in these chains can stop anything from getting to the people.

* What life will be like if no toilet paper is stored? Understand that without light sources, the night will be pitch black, often with zero visibility.

* There will be no communications, other than probably martial law type of instructions over the radio, that is if they have batteries for the radio.

* Other than ham and shortwave radio, any information that is available will be sent out by the government as filtered propaganda that “they” want everyone to hear.

* Without power consider what it will be like to not have any heat to stay warm, or air conditioned air to stay cooler – with no way of alleviating the situation.

* Travelling will likely be by foot or bicycle, as there will be no fuel and roadways may be blocked.

* Realize that ANY travel outside of the home or neighborhood will be extremely dangerous as ANYONE who moves becomes a target

* Non preppers will be pushed way beyond their limit because of lack of supplies.

* The non prepper must realize their government does not really care about them individually, that they are a mere number and help will likely not come from them.

* They have to figure out somewhere to get food. This can mean wild plants which they must know how to identify as safe, or risk poisoning themselves.

* They have to understand that when we refer to “having no food” it doesn’t mean not having the food they are used to enjoying, it means no food to eat at all.

* They have to understand that if they are fortunate enough to have any running water, they will probably have to bathe in cold water for lack of stored fuel to heat water.

* They have to realize that the very strange and totally unexpected is going to be all around them, made that much worse because of lack of any reliable self defense stores or skills.

* They might have to remain on the run constantly because of looking for water and food.

* They must understand that bad will be magnified magnitudes to living misery because of lack of food, water, and other necessary items that they took for granted for so long.

Okay, now comes the “truly ugly and unthinkable” life that most, if not all, people that have failed and refused to prepare themselves will deal with. Clear vivid visualization is key here for anyone that ho hums the idea of prepping.

What horrors they will likely face after a cave-in of their nation’s economy, war, geophysical upheaval, or whatever crisis is bad enough to disturb or stop their nation from working and functioning? There are plenty of very potential SHTF events that are simply awaiting a catalyst to trigger them.

* The Non-Prepper (NP) has to realize right off the bat that 911 and other emergency calls in will be met with silence or some recording telling the caller not to panic.

* The (NP) that has no reliable self defense that can stop an attacker, will not get help from public services, and will become a victim of rape, assault, torture, or murder.

* The (NP) that has no reliable self defense and will not only be at the mercy of criminal elements, but also have to contend with many desperate animals, some with rabies.

* The (NP) that has no food will either have to find food or be ready to beg for food or worse, like sacrificing their bodies or other horrible acts or things to get a bite of food.

* The (NP) will have to go through the worst, most rancid conditions of garbage to just maybe find what they should have stored up.

* The (NP) will go through panic and near if not total psychosis looking for any water source right before their bodies begin shutting down during advanced stages of dehydration.

* The (NP) will go through unbearable trauma when their children and other people around them are crying, screaming, and suffering with intense hunger pains in their stomachs.

* The (NP) will have to deal with the awful stench of rotting wastes from many sources because they have not taken the effort to even store up waste disposal plastic bags.

* The (NP) will have disease and pathogens everywhere, not only because they have no trash disposal means, but because they haven’t prepared how to deal with trash and waste.

* The (NP) will have to live in very primitive conditions after things around them deteriorate rapidly, because they have neglected putting away anything to make life more bearable.

* The (NP) and those around them will likely develop all sorts of infective skin rashes from the lack of insight of storing up toilet paper. Imagine the smell for a moment.

* The (NP) will have to handle biting insects and other vermin that will collect amoungst the filth that will pile up. No pest control stored up along with no other supplies.

The (NP) will have no way of treating sickness certain to follow a SHTF event, no first aid and likely no training or knowledge about how to treat the ill on top of this.

* The (NP) will have sick and dying people around them because of not being able to treat minor injuries. Didn’t even stock up on disinfectives. Unsanitary conditions lead to infection.

* The (NP) and others around them will experience much grief as they watch helplessly as their family members literally die of starvation right in front of their eyes.

* The (NP) won’t believe how desperate hunger drives them and those that mean everything to them to “trying” to eat food that taste so bad it gags them and comes back up.

* The (NP) will likely have family and friends around them that have also not prepared committing suicide because they can’t take it any longer.

* The (NP) will witness some of those people around them lose any sense of civilized humanity in them and behave like wild animals after some time from lack of necessities.

* The (NP) and family members, maybe friends also, will at some point end up barbecuing or eating raw the family dog, cat, bird, any pet dear to everyone for food.

* The (NP) will likely get into physical fights with other family members over any scrap of food available as rational thoughts are lost to wanton hunger.

* The (NP) as many other (NP’s) will eventually go out of any safety of their home looking for food and or water, become disorientated and lost, and die a hard death somewhere.

* The (NP) that is “lucky” enough to find some government help will likely have to almost sell their soul, probably all their freedom, to get tiny rations – just enough to keep them alive.

* The (NP) will see widespread violence and barbarism that will shock them to the core and will wish that they had purchased some form of firearm and stocked up on ammunition.

* The (NP) better get used to attempting to explain the children and other adults why they wasted all that money on junk, and didn’t buy any emergency food and other supplies.

* The (NP), no matter how positive they are will drop quickly into depression and lose willpower as having nothing to hold on to does this, along with lack of any nutrition.

* The (NP) will feel the worst guilt imaginable as they hear their family moaning in anguish from lack of anything to eat, knowing they could have done something to prepare.

* The (NP) will most likely not see the rebuilding and recovery after A SHTF event. They will, like almost all NP’s, be statistics. Some will die hours or a day before help arrives.

* The (NP) from lack of food, drinking bad water, no light at night, the horrid smells, no good self defense, the overall horror, will often be paralyzed with fear and despair, blank stare.

* The (NP) is totally helpless after SHTF, will have to rely totally on charity of those prepared to live. They will take all sorts of desperate measures likely to get them shot. They’ll attempt to eat hazardous foods like an animal trapped in a house will do, and get sick and suffer much before dying. The (NP) will likely die (ugly and hard) as they lived, unprepared for anything.

If we were to use one single word to describe the torments that someone who “chooses” not to prepare will go through after a true you know what hits the fan it would be “PREVENTABLE”.

Almost every single person, even a very poor person, has the capacity to put away emergency food and supplies. Even homeless people have stashes of something just in case things become so bad that the normal hand outs and thrown-away items dry up. Many people with good sources of income don’t even have an extra can of food or any water put away at all. This is stupidity beyond words.

Every day lightweight disasters happen in all parts of the world that disturb services enough that people are confined to their homes for a certain amount of time. While recovery is short, people are still uncomfortable during these times. Look what happens after a power outage at night and you will be mystified at how many homes are completely dark for hours. People have not even bought an extra couple of candles or any battery operated light sources. Even in well-to-do neighborhoods you may hear only a lone generator going after a blackout. This lack of preparedness is truly frightening and plays itself out again, again, and again every time services are disrupted for minor to major reasons. It’s as if there is something wrong with storing extra food, water, and supplies.

Even after “lessons” played out to what happens to those non-prepared, most people still feel that it just cannot happen to them, or won’t ever happen to them again. It should be proof enough to people what happens to those unprepared after disasters simply by looking at those that have gone through it firsthand. The difference, though, comes in that these disasters have had recovery periods and help from others. Even Haiti received some help and conditions remain putrid over there.

After a TRUE SHTF, it is presumable that government help and others coming to the aid of those in need WON’T happen for long periods of time. During that time those that have chosen to not put food, water, and necessities away are going to be in life threatening positions. Most people just don’t get that when the supermarket shelves are empty they will stay that way for an extended period. When the utilities go down, especially water, it may be weeks, months, or longer before they come back, if ever. Without what someone needs to survive each day, it is not going to magically appear, and depending on the goodwill of others to feed them and sacrifice their own family’s survival chances is a terrible choice.

People MUST know what life will be like after SHTF in mega fashion if they refuse to prepare. This is NOT new. Terrible events have plunged people into the deepest levels of desperation and hopelessness, and they will happen again and again.

While the above consequences to the non-prepper are extremely abysmal for anyone to read, the simple fact of the matter is they have already happened time and time again to those that have nothing put away. People have resorted to cannibalism and gone to levels of primitive savage behavior out of shear desperation and out of literally losing their minds to the physical depletion of food and water that keeps the physical body operating. Sometimes showing the extreme severity and results of a person’s lack of action, such as failure of the simple act of putting away extra food, water, and supplies, can be the kick in the complacency that they need.

It’s really easy to put away food and supplies. All one has to do is add a little bit of extra food to the grocery cart for long-term storage. Over time this adds up to a well stocked pantry of supplies.

There is something that is in a can of food that everyone can eat and enjoy the taste of, so talk to family members about their nutritional preferences and start stocking up. Toilet paper and other supplies that really don’t have any expiration date can be put away and forgotten about ’til needed.

There MUST be common sense and intelligence to see what happens IF they don’t stock up for the future. There has to be the DESIRE to get started, and this is the real problem with so many.

Once started, however, prepping becomes a type of life saving routine or positive lifestyle habit. It is easy and can and will save one from misery. It may save their life and the lives of their family from ruin when SHTF, which is almost inevitably going to happen someday. Every month and year that goes by without a true SHTF event, makes it more likely that it will happen. Basic statistical chance shows this to be the case, but people continue the same pattern of behavior that has led them to the same devastation countless time before.

For those preppers that have people around them that refuse to prepare, you can at least have some degree of solace knowing that you tried to show the non-prepping person(s) what not having anything will mean to them and their families.

All we can do is try. Once we’ve given it our best shot, all we can do is let those who have been warned about the direness of the possibilities live their lives the way that want to. They will, unfortunately, live in a world of regret and suffering if the nation and the world falls apart around them.

To every action there is an opposite equal reaction. Preppers will see their efforts have been more than worth it. Objects that are motionless tend to remain motionless and non-preppers will find there are horrific consequences for their lack of effort and motion to put away “life insurance” preps for themselves and their families.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: collapse; doomsday; doomsdayscenario; preppers; prepping; shtf; survival
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To: JRandomFreeper

“I can start a fire with two angry boy scouts.”

Best line on the thread.


451 posted on 05/13/2012 7:25:53 PM PDT by patton (DateDiff)
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To: patton

It made ME laugh.

came along with some sound instruction, too.


452 posted on 05/13/2012 7:56:43 PM PDT by stanne
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To: Iron Munro

Re your post 353: Mrs. OldPossum and I recently read that novel (”One Second After”) and found it highly interesting. Thanks for making that post on it.


453 posted on 05/13/2012 8:26:31 PM PDT by OldPossum
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To: Kartographer

I understand. I’ve seen it on other sites. There are three groups - preppers, those who put down preppers, and those who whine claiming they’d rather just die rather than provide any insurance to their kids and loved ones.


454 posted on 05/13/2012 8:44:55 PM PDT by bgill
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To: texmexis best
Texas City refinery fire.


455 posted on 05/13/2012 8:47:30 PM PDT by bgill
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To: papertyger

Noooo, not hardening of boogers!


456 posted on 05/13/2012 8:50:06 PM PDT by bgill
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To: blam

I realize I’m late here so I may not get many responses, but I have a burning question: Is there some way I can secure/store stuff underground? I’d be much more comfortable with stuff out of the house and away from NP’s if they decide to come calling.

We have sandy soil so digging is no big problem. BUT we’re in a high humidity area so everything would have to be kept dry. I was considering some of those food grade plastic barrels, but they’d have to be opened eventually and then the seal wouldn’t be any good.

Has anyone else come up with a good hiding place?


457 posted on 05/13/2012 11:03:11 PM PDT by Humidston (For the first time in my adult life I FEAR my government.)
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To: Nailbiter

bfl


458 posted on 05/14/2012 2:49:22 AM PDT by Nailbiter
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To: Humidston

Depends on your water table and temperature ranges. I’ve seen plans for burying 55 gal barrels up to the lid and covering them. For smaller items you can take a PVC pipe, cap the ends, and bury it completely. Most everything you put inside these needs to be sealed separately. The downside of the PVC is that it floats.


459 posted on 05/14/2012 3:21:38 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Iron Munro

Thank you very much for that link!


460 posted on 05/14/2012 3:45:04 AM PDT by My hearts in London - Everett (Gingrich or bust! (5/7/12, I guess it's bust.))
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To: blam
Read the whole article and some of the comments. I apologize up front if this has been said before.

I think it is VERY dangerous to be a prep "evangelist".

The article didn't mention the single biggest danger to preppers (or anyone else who is not starving) is the starving masses themselves. If you have a cache, and anyone outside of your immediate family knows about it when TSHTF someone outside will find out about it. It doesn't matter that the masses aren't prepared. They will be numerous, motivated and probabaly armed and organized. If you are located within a 3-day march of a population center it may not be possible to defend your cache unless you maintain absolute secrecy-starting last year.

The first rule of prepping should be that you don't talk about prepping. With anyone. The only exception is if you are working with a like-minded network who you know well (and by sight) to organize beforehand.

Family members shouldn't be automatically "clued in", especially ones that don't live with you and especially children, who love to boast (when I was 10 I was told all about my friend's dad and his safe full of guns and ammo within an hour of meeting my friend). Trust no one until they are proven. Paranoia is a survival skill. Use it.

Churches, associations, clubs, etc. sound like a great place to organize efforts, but if TSHTF they will be OBVIOUS targets. In fact, once te store shelves are bare they will be the very first places the horde will turn to.

Don't buy supplies from people who know you. This sounds counterproductive and hard-assed, but when TSHTF someone is going to say to the wrong person, "I sold this guy down the road X amount of Y, I bet he still has it!"

461 posted on 05/14/2012 7:17:58 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: stanne
I didn’t mention that drought is an issue, here.

Save or scrounge empty juice bottles or soft drink bottles. Rinse and fill with water a few at a time.

Store out of the light.

If your water is from a municiple supply that is already chorinated it should keep okay with no additional treatment.

If your water is not pre-chlorinated add 8 drops pure bleach per 2 liter bottle for long term storage.
Use PURE beach only - do not use scented bleach.

See additional info here:

STORING WATER IN 2 LITER POP BOTTLES

We also use old 1 gallon milk jugs but they are harder to clean. Non-fat are easier to clean than others. We use cold water and rinse well. If you do use milk jugs let them sit a week or two after cleaning to make sure there is no sour smell. If they stink toss them out.


462 posted on 05/14/2012 7:34:15 AM PDT by Iron Munro (If Repubbies paid as much attention to Rush as the 'Rats we wouldn't be in this mess)
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To: JRandomFreeper
"I would rather kiss a lawyer" etc., etc., etc.

Next time don't hold back so much.


463 posted on 05/14/2012 7:47:57 AM PDT by Iron Munro (If Repubbies paid as much attention to Rush as the 'Rats we wouldn't be in this mess)
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To: blam
An old guy (like me) wandering in the wilderness will be dead before sundown.

I look at the need to prep and plan in two ways:

Short Term disaster - Most likely (Duration - maybe up to 90 days)

Long term disaster - Least likely

In either case my general thinking is that the immediate priority is to make it through the crisis at hand until we have some idea of the magnitude and likely duration of the larger impact.

If the crisis is short term we may see some sort of recovery begin or might see the neighborhood and/or community coalesce and organize within a period of weeks or months. To get through that period I think of staying in place (if possible) and my preps are more along the line of canned beans rather than pallets of 50 pound sacks of dried beans and rice stored in a bomb proof bunker(although both are good to have!).

If the immediate disaster is a hurricane, forest fire (or tsunami) heading my way there is no doubt we'll load up the vehicle with canned food, water and other supplies and leave earlier rather than later. In storm season we always have a load of necessities ready to go.

If we are facing a long term scenario we still need to get through the immediate crisis, then we will need the long term stored food (if any). But even more we will need vegetable seeds, tools to grow, harvest and hunt food and a stable, secure place to live. It will be hard to accomplish that for one family living in a remote cabin. Someone pointed out that if you can get to a location so can the bad guys who want your supplies.

The idea of living in the field for extended periods with just a rifle, a bag of salt and a tin cup isn't practical for 99% of us.


464 posted on 05/14/2012 8:33:58 AM PDT by Iron Munro (If Repubbies paid as much attention to Rush as the 'Rats we wouldn't be in this mess)
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To: Humidston
Caching.
465 posted on 05/14/2012 8:46:26 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Iron Munro

One word on storing seeds and gardening tools for “just in case”.

If you rely on your “instant gardening skills when TSHTF”,
you’re gonna starve.

Garden NOW.


466 posted on 05/14/2012 8:50:09 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MrB
If you rely on your “instant gardening skills when TSHTF”, you’re gonna starve.

Good point.

Applies to most other skills necessary to survival as well.

We have been trying out/practicing/learning as we go along.

Many simple sounding ideas are not so simple to master and it will be much more difficult under duress.


467 posted on 05/14/2012 8:57:00 AM PDT by Iron Munro (If Repubbies paid as much attention to Rush as the 'Rats we wouldn't be in this mess)
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To: mamelukesabre
non preppers will make not just their own lives miserable. they will make your life miserable too.

When the NP show up at my door, they will see me with a plastic bag with 2 cups of rice and a bottle of water in one hand and a 9mm cartridge in the other. I'll tell them that today they get the bag. Tomorrow they get the 9mm.

Cold? Perhaps. But it will be the only way....IF things get reaaly bad.

468 posted on 05/14/2012 9:06:01 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I will not comply. I will NEVER submit.)
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To: Iron Munro
When the supermarket shelves go bare and the utilities go down it may be for the rest of our lives.

I heard JW Rawles interviewed a short time ago. He said that if the grid goes down due to fuel shortages caused by hyper-inflation, we could see an entire generation without electrical power. Once these grids go down, you just don't flip a switch and turn on the lights. Cold start up is a hugely complex procedure and requires all resources and infrastructure to be hitting on all cylinders.

469 posted on 05/14/2012 9:17:19 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I will not comply. I will NEVER submit.)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom
How do you prep for this?

A very small caliber round?

470 posted on 05/14/2012 9:39:45 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I will not comply. I will NEVER submit.)
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To: blam
I'm stock piling 20 pound propane tanks.

I would LOVE to do that. But the tanks are so bloody expensive. 30 bucks for a tank and ~17 bucks to fill. And the new ones need to be purged first...requiring an additional fee at most places.

If I could get them cheap enough, I'd convert my generator to propane and I'd be set. But 50 dollars or more per unit. Too much. Check the date of manufacture on the pair you got for 15 bucks. After 12 years they won't refill them.

471 posted on 05/14/2012 10:03:27 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I will not comply. I will NEVER submit.)
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To: KittenClaws
With a limited source, wouldn’t you prefer to drink?

I use a rain catchment system that shunts rain water from the downspout to a 50 gallon poly tank in the cellar. Overflow is handle by the same system. When it is full it backs up and goes down the spout. I can drain what I need, filter it with a silver impregnated ceramic filter and start cooking. No need to go outside to look for fresh water. I also have other large stores of water but this is the main utility source. I fear only a drought.

472 posted on 05/14/2012 10:18:16 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I will not comply. I will NEVER submit.)
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To: blam; All

Was suggested to me today, after a recitation of my original list (to which you all have been so kindly and expertly editing) that the B necessity is:

Music.

I have a guitar, violin, fife, bodhran drum and a couple of Kenyan tamorines. Must get a harmonica.


473 posted on 05/14/2012 8:41:04 PM PDT by stanne
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To: stanne

tamorines are the same as tambourines when edited properly


474 posted on 05/14/2012 8:46:25 PM PDT by stanne
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
"Check the date of manufacture on the pair you got for 15 bucks. After 12 years they won't refill them. "

I check all that now before buying...I made a mistake on the first couple tanks I bought.

I checked these two, both are full of gas, one is refillable and one isn't. At $7.50 a tank...that's a steal.

I've never paid more than $8.00 per tank, empty or partially full. I have a local guy who will 'top-off' my partial tanks for $1.00 a pound.

I can also refill the one pound Coleman lantern bottles from these tanks...just requires a special fitting.

475 posted on 05/14/2012 10:10:23 PM PDT by blam
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To: Humidston
"We have sandy soil so digging is no big problem. BUT we’re in a high humidity area so everything would have to be kept dry"

Mobile is the rainest city in the US, I often hit water digging fense posts holes.

I have had good success burying things in big diameter PVC pipes here. I keep my eyes open at garage sales and areas where people illegally dump (usually construction guys) there trash. I found the PVC pipe illegally dumped, short 3-4 foot sections and then I found the caps for them at a garage sale for $1.00 each. Everywhere I go, my eye is searching for a survival item, kinda fun actually.

476 posted on 05/14/2012 10:21:42 PM PDT by blam
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
"When the NP show up at my door, they will see me with a plastic bag with 2 cups of rice and a bottle of water in one hand and a 9mm cartridge in the other. I'll tell them that today they get the bag. Tomorrow they get the 9mm. "

What do you do when his/her three children start crying and begging for food?

477 posted on 05/14/2012 10:25:15 PM PDT by blam
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To: JRandomFreeper; blam
There's prepared and then there's prepared. Preparing for natural disasters only requires enough to get by on your own for a few days or weeks. (I'm in L.A.. Been there, done that!) If you're talking about some sort of T.E.O.T.W.A.W.K.I. societal break down, that same amount of supplies can be packed up and moved; several tons of dry goods in your basement cannot. There are exceptions. If your situation is like Blam's, where you and your neighbors can cooperate and keep a large area secure, then a large stockpile doesn't become an anchor. For most other people, that big pile of supplies will either have to be abandoned or will get you killed.
478 posted on 05/14/2012 10:32:27 PM PDT by Redcloak (Mitt Romney: Puttin' the "Country club" back in "Republican".)
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To: Iron Munro
"The idea of living in the field for extended periods with just a rifle, a bag of salt and a tin cup isn't practical for 99% of us. "

Not at all...even younger well conditioned guys are gonna run into other desperate guys like themselves and have to fight over what is available out there.

I have all my short and long term supplies at this location. At worst case, I can move it down the street a short ways to a better fortified neighbor's house. Because I'm in 'hurricane alley', all my food supplies are packed to survive a category 5 hurricane. Everything can blow down but they'll still be dry, etc.

479 posted on 05/14/2012 10:32:58 PM PDT by blam
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To: Redcloak
"There's prepared and then there's prepared. Preparing for natural disasters only requires enough to get by on your own for a few days or weeks. (I'm in L.A.. Been there, done that!)"

My son lives in LA County, Sierra Madre.
He has three days of supplies and never expects to use them. He is a PhD and of course knows everything, lol.
He says all my doomsday scenarios (always) has him down here in my garden at the end of a hoe. I told him not to worry that as atuned as he is (ahem), I'll have to phone to tell him his neighborhood is being over-run and that he'll be eaten before he gets here anyway.

Good luck Red.

480 posted on 05/14/2012 10:43:22 PM PDT by blam
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To: jboot
"The first rule of prepping should be that you don't talk about prepping. With anyone. The only exception is if you are working with a like-minded network who you know well (and by sight) to organize beforehand. "

Very good advice.

481 posted on 05/14/2012 10:47:47 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

My local Walmart just started selling the Augason Farms Emergency Food Kits, the 200 meal Dinner and Breakfast kits of 6 #10 cans with everything from scrambled eggs to mashed potatoes, cheaper to get the kit than the individual cans, so I bought two Breakfast and one Dinner, that 18 cans plus I grabbed a can of powdered honey. Each kit is 6 cans, thats 200 servings.

They are just flying off the shelves up here in Alaska.

I am stocking these up in my restored camping trailer with everything needed to be totally self sufficient.


482 posted on 05/14/2012 10:57:24 PM PDT by Eye of Unk (Liberals need not reply.)
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To: Eye of Unk
"I am stocking these up in my restored camping trailer with everything needed to be totally self sufficient. "

Excellent.

The time to prepare is now.

483 posted on 05/14/2012 11:00:56 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Three days worth of goodies is a bit light, but Sierra Madre is an easy enough place to get out of. There are some places in L.A. County that are difficult to get in an out of; miles from a freeway, no large secondary roads, and/or limited routes through ranges of hills or mountains.


484 posted on 05/14/2012 11:04:20 PM PDT by Redcloak (Mitt Romney: Puttin' the "Country club" back in "Republican".)
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To: blam

That trailer will be used if needed not for me to bug out but to give me and my family an emergency shelter or just plain shelter if there is a call to arms locally to form up a statewide militia, all hands young and old, skilled or not, everybody does their fair share even if its digging a latrine or reloading ammunition or contributing to the warehouse of food stocks of those that join the militia.

I don’t believe in running off and hiding in a bunker, we fight and take back what is ours, even if we have to square off against Federal stooges appointed by Obmama who are ordered to removed “hoarded” food stocks.


485 posted on 05/14/2012 11:13:10 PM PDT by Eye of Unk (Liberals need not reply.)
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To: Eye of Unk
"I don’t believe in running off and hiding in a bunker, we fight and take back what is ours, even if we have to square off against Federal stooges appointed by Obmama who are ordered to removed “hoarded” food stocks. "

If you lose your food, you die. May as well die trying to keep it. I like your attitude.

486 posted on 05/14/2012 11:18:05 PM PDT by blam
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To: panaxanax
I sort of pity the some preppers.....maybe they're right...I don't know....I hope not....

but buying ahead and being organized is just plain good old common sense, no matter the reason...

food prices are high...packages are smaller and there is not as much selection....

play it smart and start buying things when they have a sale....

i do try to be well "rounded" but by no means do I have every scenario covered, and I don't think I'll ever be able too...

487 posted on 05/14/2012 11:40:18 PM PDT by cherry
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To: blam

I would not push it past Obama to create an informer network to gather information of who has amassed food stocks.

All the poofer rants about is “fair share” which translates when things get tough he will create his Army to find and remove hoarders food stocks to pass on to the inner city thugs.

Think of Acorn combined into a quasi Fahrenheit 451 except that they will remove excess food stocks.


488 posted on 05/14/2012 11:42:03 PM PDT by Eye of Unk (Liberals need not reply.)
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To: DYngbld
there is certainly a segment of the black population that will take any opportunity to be violent....

but frankly, I think most blacks are sick of bamey as much as we whiteys.....they won't admit it.....

489 posted on 05/14/2012 11:49:22 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Eye of Unk

There several anti-preppers right here on FR who would gladly report preppers to such a network.


490 posted on 05/15/2012 5:21:20 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Redcloak
I lived for over a year on my stored supplies after the market crash of 2008. I think I'll keep my pile.

/johnny

491 posted on 05/15/2012 5:27:01 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: blam
I can also refill the one pound Coleman lantern bottles from these tanks...just requires a special fitting.

I've been laying those 16.1 oz. bottles heavy...4-6 per week. I have a few stoves that run on them and a big heating unit that will use them and the 20 pounders.

492 posted on 05/15/2012 5:50:51 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I will not comply. I will NEVER submit.)
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To: blam
What do you do when his/her three children start crying and begging for food?

Give them 6 more cups of rice, some canned sweet potatoes and a gallon bottle of water, diapers if they need them and a bar of chocolate. I might even throw in a can of Sterno and a Bic lighter.

But the parameters of the deal remain the same. I can't afford to have them coming back for more or looking around inside my house. And I am prepared in case they happen to tell anyone else where they got it.

493 posted on 05/15/2012 5:57:23 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I will not comply. I will NEVER submit.)
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To: Eye of Unk; blam
"Gatherering and sharing" is an integral part of any totalitarian regime, especially if there is any sort of crisis. During the Depression Stalin mercilessly rounded up private food and medicine stocks in the Ukraine. Millions died. Two hundred years earlier the British Crown did much the same in Scotland (and relocated the people, which is invariably the NEXT step after the "gathering and sharing"). Pol Pot stole literally everything in Cambodia and made the surviving people his agrarian slaves. We all know how that turned out.

Based on historical precedent, if TSHTF:

1. Government entities, both "official" and ad hoc will confiscate anything of value that they can, in competition with local gangs and criminals.

2. If and after some degree of "order" has been restored anyone found still living in rural or suburban areas will be relocated to a "safe zone" (a concentration camp/tent city in an urban area).

494 posted on 05/15/2012 5:59:51 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
And I am prepared in case they happen to tell anyone else where they got it.

Unless you've got a company of Marines on retainer, no, you don't. No one is.

The outsiders will be organized. Bet your life on it.

If TSHTF, someone coming to your front door should see an abandoned house that appears to have already been ransacked. He should think "nothing here" and move along on his own accord.

495 posted on 05/15/2012 6:08:14 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: Eye of Unk
Think of Acorn combined into a quasi Fahrenheit 451 except that they will remove excess food stocks.

If Obama's other attempts to foment civil war in this nation fail...that would seal the deal. And Acornites and their ilk would be getting the brown end of the stick.

496 posted on 05/15/2012 6:11:13 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I will not comply. I will NEVER submit.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Sorry, I had to get to work and didn’t have time to continue on this thread.

Thanks for that advise on the liquid in canned goods, that would suffice until a solution to the water issue can be found.

All of the purification systems in the country won’t help if there is no H2O to be had! Even a water capture system would not do well during a drought.


497 posted on 05/15/2012 9:29:11 AM PDT by KittenClaws (A closed mouth gathers no foot.)
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To: Uncle Ike; blam; Kartographer
I am certain that “Doomsday Preppers” has something to do with how preppers are perceived (at least with those who use a television show to form an opinion).

A very real “Great Depression” has happened in this country before and it is not unreasonable to prepare for another. But this time, I don't believe the hungry will be so docile. Polite society has indeed, devolved.

498 posted on 05/15/2012 9:48:45 AM PDT by KittenClaws (A closed mouth gathers no foot.)
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To: KittenClaws

The difference is that during the “Great Depression” a good number of people still grew their own food and secondly you didn’t have the ‘entitlement’ class that you have now. Those to things alone would make a second “Great Depression” nothing like you Grandma’s “Great Depression”.


499 posted on 05/15/2012 9:54:19 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer
"The difference is that during the “Great Depression” a good number of people still grew their own food and secondly you didn’t have the ‘entitlement’ class that you have now."

So true. More people were farmers during the Great Depression...my parents and their parents were all farmers. My grandfather (mom's dad) went to prison for 'moonshining' during the depression.

500 posted on 05/15/2012 10:51:36 AM PDT by blam
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