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Records: Cate Edwards claimed she wasn’t a U.S. citizen to get out of jury duty
The Daily Caller ^ | 5/14/12 | Matthew Boyle

Posted on 05/14/2012 12:43:09 PM PDT by ColdOne

The daughter of disgraced former North Carolina Democratic Sen. John Edwards claimed she wasn’t a U.S. citizen to get out of jury duty in early 2011, court records The Daily Caller obtained show.

According to those records, Cate Edwards was excused from jury duty on Jan. 7, 2011 in Orange County, North Carolina because she was considered a non-citizen of that county. Additionally, a comment included by a court clerk’s office staffer states that the reason for Cate Edwards’ excusal was that she was not a citizen of the United States of America.

James Stanford, the clerk of the Superior Court for Orange County, told The Daily Caller that such a claim of non-citizenship originates with the “person who’s actually been summoned for jury duty.” That means, in this case, Cate Edwards made the claim herself.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 05/14/2012 12:43:13 PM PDT by ColdOne
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To: ColdOne

Oak trees produce acorns.


2 posted on 05/14/2012 12:47:32 PM PDT by fish hawk (Religion: Man's attempt to gain salvation or the approbation of God by his own works)
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To: ColdOne
Second generation sleaze.
3 posted on 05/14/2012 12:48:04 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: ColdOne

Two Americas, and she’s not a citizen of either??


4 posted on 05/14/2012 12:51:15 PM PDT by Charles Henrickson
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To: ColdOne

Meh... this was probably a clerical error or mis-statement. She likely claimed that she wasn’t a resident of the county, but it came out as, was heard as, or was recorded as “not a resident of the country” instead.


5 posted on 05/14/2012 12:52:43 PM PDT by kevkrom (Those in a rush to trample the Constitution seem to forget that it is the source of their authority.)
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To: Charles Henrickson

Ouch !


6 posted on 05/14/2012 12:52:53 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: ColdOne
“They would indicate to the clerk’s office that they are not citizens of the county of Orange, but that doesn’t mean that they’re not a citizen of the state of North Carolina — just that they’re not a citizen of Orange County,” Stanford said in a phone interview.

I think she was claiming not to be a citizen of that particular NC county.

7 posted on 05/14/2012 12:53:25 PM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: ColdOne

Did she vote illegally then? In most states, jury pools are drawn from voter registration records and therefore it quite clear she is guilty of perjury one way or another.


8 posted on 05/14/2012 12:55:35 PM PDT by monocle
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To: ColdOne
James Stanford, the clerk of the Superior Court for Orange County, told The Daily Caller that such a claim of non-citizenship originates with the “person who’s actually been summoned for jury duty.” That means, in this case, Cate Edwards made the claim herself.

And we all know that the government never makes mistakes.

/s

9 posted on 05/14/2012 12:56:59 PM PDT by Zeppo ("Happy Pony is on - and I'm NOT missing Happy Pony")
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To: ColdOne
So, what's the fine and jail time for perjury? Does it have to go to trial or can she just be hit with a contempt of court citation without the need for a trial?

And as I expected, it looks like she is trying to claim that she wasn't a "citizen" of that county and any references to non-US citizen was just a misunderstanding. The problem is that she is still a registered voter there, so that excuse doesn't wash.

Also, who uses "citizen" for resident of a county? I got called up for jury duty once after I had moved, so I just checked the "moved" box and gave my new address. I didn't make any citizenship claims.

10 posted on 05/14/2012 12:58:33 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (You only have three billion heartbeats in a lifetime.How many does the government claim as its own?)
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To: ColdOne

Well, THAT apple didn’t fall far from the tree.


11 posted on 05/14/2012 1:04:32 PM PDT by ScottinVA (Buying Drain-O requires photo I.D... so should voting!)
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To: ColdOne

When the Press turns on a guy, they sure don’t mess around.


12 posted on 05/14/2012 1:05:30 PM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: fish hawk

And chips can be had from a larger block of wood.


13 posted on 05/14/2012 1:05:30 PM PDT by bkopto (Obama and Biden merely symptoms of a more profound, systemic disease in American body politic.)
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To: ColdOne
No sale. The girl's father is a sleaze, but this is a non-story.

You can't serve on a jury if you're not a resident of the county. The clerk's office does not ask (or care) if you're not a citizen of the country.

The jury pool substantially lags voter registration, because the list is updated only occasionally. They figure they'll weed out the folks who have moved in the summons process (or in voir dire if they miss one).

There was a period when I did not serve on a jury because I had moved - first from Fulton out of state, then back in-state to DeKalb, then back to Fulton, then on to Cobb County. The jury summons was always several years behind my actual move. Cobb finally caught up with me and I actually served for the first time a year or so ago. But I've been here now for almost 20 years.

14 posted on 05/14/2012 1:05:56 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: ColdOne

The Edwards family, led by the scumbag John, was dysfunctional and corrupt to the core.
Is it any wonder Democrats fawned over him and nearly made him their nominee? Great VP choice, too, Kerry.

Wow. That was a close freaking call.


15 posted on 05/14/2012 1:12:04 PM PDT by Lancey Howard (No Romney, no way.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Agreed... and an updated driver license would have been quite sufficient to get her excused.

On the flip side, had she actually uttered the words “I am not a citizen of the United States”, then THAT claim would have undoubtedly gotten a little more scrutiny.

So let’s move along... nothing to see here.


16 posted on 05/14/2012 1:15:46 PM PDT by alancarp (Liberals are all for shared pain... until they're included in the pain group.)
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To: KarlInOhio

Do you actually know that she claimed she wasn’t a resident of the “county”, and not “country”? Could be a typo, could be a lie. I will wait for clarification.


17 posted on 05/14/2012 1:25:57 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: ozzymandus
Do you actually know that she claimed she wasn’t a resident of the “county”, and not “country”? Could be a typo, could be a lie. I will wait for clarification.

I think either one would be intentionally misleading given that she is a US citizen and is still a registered voter in that county.

18 posted on 05/14/2012 1:32:51 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (You only have three billion heartbeats in a lifetime.How many does the government claim as its own?)
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To: ColdOne

Don’t lie on them, that could get you in trouble. I throw them out. They can’t prove I got them.


19 posted on 05/14/2012 1:38:15 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: AnAmericanMother

I just got a federal jury notice and US citizen was one of the bubble questions on the form.


20 posted on 05/14/2012 1:40:35 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: ozzymandus

Are you seriously maintaining that she actually knows whether or not she is a citizen of the United States?


21 posted on 05/14/2012 1:54:27 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets
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To: ColdOne

the family that lies together...


22 posted on 05/14/2012 2:32:43 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: ColdOne

Would you want a member of the Edwards clan sitting on YOUR jury?

I’d take this as a win.


23 posted on 05/14/2012 2:32:52 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: ozzymandus
Do you actually know that she claimed she wasn’t a resident of the “county”, and not “country”?

You are a citizen of the country and [optionally] a resident of a county. Counties do not grant citizenships, and the court clerk's office certainly should know the difference.

Additionally, a comment included by a court clerk’s office staffer states that the reason for Cate Edwards’ excusal was that she was not a citizen of the United States of America.

A remark "not a citizen" on or near a form that explicitly asks if you are a citizen can only mean the US citizenship.

24 posted on 05/14/2012 2:42:19 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: ColdOne; Chode; GeronL

Want to get out of jury duty? Really?

Just let it drop that you listen to Rush Limbaugh and you will be cut lose.

Rush was correct in that they only want stupid people who watch Oprah all day.


25 posted on 05/14/2012 3:16:58 PM PDT by Morgana (I only come here to see what happens next. It normally does.)
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To: Morgana
who ever was going to court is DAMN lucky not to of had her wretched azz on the jury...
26 posted on 05/14/2012 3:22:22 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: discostu
Don’t lie on them, that could get you in trouble. I throw them out. They can’t prove I got them.

That's what I did with the last one I got. You might think they would send them by registered mail but they don't.

Before someone calls me unAmerican, I wasted 4 days of my life by answering 2 jury duty calls, sitting in a small room with a couple dozen other people watching a tv mounted on the wall and reading 5 year old time magazines and National Geographics.

When they get a better system, I'll reconsider.

27 posted on 05/14/2012 3:32:37 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Romney vs. Obama? One of them has to lose, I'll rejoice in that fact, whichever it is.)
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To: Graybeard58

I used to go. But same as you, waste a day and not even wind up on a jury, never even get in the court room for vour dire. Then they started timing them inconveniently, like jury day on a big deadline at work, so I wouldn’t go figuring I’d do the next one. Then I figured out they didn’t really seem to care, so I don’t either. The federal notice I just got last week was a return to the bad timing, this time right before my first vacation of the year, I bet if I actually went I’d get on a jury, and it would be a 3 week trial, bye bye vacation. So in the trash it went.

IMHO the juror list should be made up from the welfare roles not the voter roles. Make the folks living off the government dime do something for their dime. Shouldn’t be too tough to have a 3 days off 2 days on for the ones actually trying to improve their lives to still be able to look for a job. but of course that idea only works in a country that doesn’t have screwed up priorities.


28 posted on 05/14/2012 3:41:21 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: Morgana

check yer freepmail...


29 posted on 05/14/2012 3:45:12 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chode

If it was an ambulance chasing lawyer using a class action lawsuit to soak a corporation based on phony, trumped up charges, he probably would have loved to have her on the jury.


30 posted on 05/14/2012 3:46:04 PM PDT by JediJones (From the makers of Romney, Bloomberg/Schwarzenegger 2016. Because the GOP can never go too far left.)
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To: ColdOne

Think the court could use the same jury as her father’s?

The jury could give two guilties for the price of one...


31 posted on 05/14/2012 3:48:40 PM PDT by moovova (OBAMA: The first US President to come out of the closet.)
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To: Chode

check your email!


32 posted on 05/14/2012 4:03:36 PM PDT by Morgana (I only come here to see what happens next. It normally does.)
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To: Morgana
it seems to no longer work...
33 posted on 05/14/2012 4:25:04 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Morgana
done and replied
34 posted on 05/14/2012 4:44:40 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Morgana

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2883670/posts


35 posted on 05/14/2012 5:10:08 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: discostu
That's United States District Courts -- a whole different question.

All the county is concerned about is whether you reside there. That's the state standard for jury service.

36 posted on 05/14/2012 6:16:10 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: discostu; Graybeard58
Mmm . . . I don't think y'all want to do that. Unless you want to completely break a system that's already stretched pretty thin, and make it impossible for anybody (including you) to get justice.

Let me explain. I have sat in the jury room without being called several times, way back when I lived in Fulton County the first time. Your sitting there actually has some value to the county, as you are holding a place for the completely unpredictable number of folks who don't show up because they threw the summons in the trash (yeah, I'm looking at you).

It means that cases can get tried on schedule because they have enough jurors for the pool. That's important for the justice system, especially in very large counties with short-staffed courts, when you may have just a 2 week window for jury trials once a term, or in very small counties with a circuit riding judge they share with 3-4 other small counties, who may have just 2 weeks a year for jury trials. You may not give a hoot, but some day you might have a civil case (or God forfend get charged with something) and you might want to get your case heard sooner than 5-6 years from filing (not at all unusual in the City of Atlanta).

Plus, if all you have on a jury is welfare leeches who have no concept of (1) responsibility; (2) the value of a dollar; (3) citizenship, you are going to get total miscarriage of justice. And you could be in the crosshairs yourself.

Example: my sister and her husband had a girl crash a neighborhood picnic at their house, totally drunk. They asked her to leave, and she did, but later filed suit against them claiming that she had fallen off their deck and broken her nose and her arm. Total lie, but their homeowners insurance settled the case because it was going to go to a Fulton County (City of Atlanta) jury. Mostly made up of irresponsible urban denizens who would sock it to a homeowner mostly out of envy of somebody who actually had something, and also out of racial animosity (we're white, with a little less Cherokee than Elizabeth Warren, but not much less).

It is a notoriously dysfunctional court system. Yet one more reason that we moved the heck out of Fulton County before somebody decided to file a spurious claim against us.

37 posted on 05/14/2012 6:39:46 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

I’m not breaking anything. If I ever actually got picked for a jury you might be right, but I don’t, I never even got close. Of the half dozen times I responded “correctly” to my jury notices I only ever got out of the wait room once, we walked to the court room, the bailiff met us and said the attorneys and judge were discussing something we’d have to wait outside, 4 minutes later bailiff came out and said we could go back to the room. It’s not my civic duty to stop being a productive tax paying member of society for a day to go sit on uncomfortable chairs in an overly lit room with an overly loud TV and not be on a jury.

The system is broke and it’s not worth wasting my time to observe the brokenness.

Actually I think my welfare jury system solves many problems. For one thing by making serving on juries mandatory for receiving government forces them to actually EARN their money. The ones that don’t want to earn their government money can go without, thus we get to shrink the welfare roles which saves money, the ones that actually do show up for jury duty aren’t going to be the stereotypical losers. And we get to stop having the jury system sap productivity by grabbing away people from their paying jobs. Instead of forcing corporations (many of which still pay their employees’ salaries when they’re on a jury) to support the court system it would actually let the government pay for itself. It turns jury duty from being a punishment for being willing to vote to a way for people to earn government assistance and be useful even if they don’t have a job.


38 posted on 05/15/2012 8:16:23 AM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: discostu
I’m not breaking anything. If I ever actually got picked for a jury you might be right, but I don’t, I never even got close. Of the half dozen times I responded “correctly” to my jury notices I only ever got out of the wait room once, we walked to the court room, the bailiff met us and said the attorneys and judge were discussing something we’d have to wait outside, 4 minutes later bailiff came out and said we could go back to the room. It’s not my civic duty to stop being a productive tax paying member of society for a day to go sit on uncomfortable chairs in an overly lit room with an overly loud TV and not be on a jury.

As was explained to me, and take it or leave it as you prefer, is that the mere presence of a jury pool, meaning that a trial is about to actually commence as opposed to being knocked back to a later date, is the incentive for many cases to come to a last-minute out-of-court settlement. You never entered the courtroom, but your presence in the jury room helped the case get resolved.

39 posted on 05/15/2012 10:32:07 AM PDT by kevkrom (Those in a rush to trample the Constitution seem to forget that it is the source of their authority.)
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To: kevkrom

I can buy that many people who were holding out become more likely to settle the closer to trial time things get, and “we’re going to be picking a jury today” is certainly very close. Which is all well and good, but not really a good reason for me to not at work being useful, there’s no reason to punish me because somebody should have settled a month ago. Which again spins back to my idea of use people on welfare, they weren’t going to do anything useful that day anyway.


40 posted on 05/15/2012 10:43:02 AM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: discostu; kevkrom
The system is not broken. I've been in and around it for nearly 40 years. I sat in the jury assembly room twice in one county and once in another (never even voir dired) before I finally served on a jury a couple of years ago, and I was impressed with how well the system worked. It was overall a well-educated jury with lots of common sense, and everybody there took the job seriously and did their best to do right. My husband is an honest-looking fellow who has been picked for 8 or 10 juries in his lifetime - and he agrees that the system works.

There are problems, they could be fixed or they could get worse. But your attitude that you don't want to be bothered will kill the system if enough people adopt it.

You simply do NOT want ignorant and uneducated people on welfare doing a half-@$$ed job of deciding cases, just because you think they ought to do something for their money. They'll do a rotten job at that just like they do everything else - and when they decide multi-million dollar business cases by socking it to the 'evil rich', what do you suppose is going to happen to businesses and the economy? Right now those 'runaway jury' cases are pretty rare and only happen in high-profile cases, but once layabouts who can't even hold a job are the jurors, every case will be a runaway. Even if you don't happen to be on the losing end of a frivolous suit (and those will multiply as soon as the unscrupulous realize that ignorant jurors are handing out free money), the sinking economy will sink you too.

The whole purpose of the legal system on the civil side is to avoid self-help repossession, theft, and violence. When people can't get their disputes resolved in a just and honest manner, we'll be back to pistols at dawn and might makes right. I don't want to go there.

The idea that trial day will push folks to settle is another point. The dynamics of settlement are funny, you have to have the hammer before you can get it done. It's not the lawyers, it's the clients. Nobody wants to settle until they have to -- not the defendants who don't want to write the check, and not the plaintiffs who think they can wrangle another couple thousand out of the defendants.

Mediation is one attempt to avoid last-minute settlements, but it hasn't worked out the way everybody hoped because it isn't binding.

You don't have to be in the courtroom to be useful. You are 'cushion' or 'insurance' against folks who don't show up. And sometimes we have to do things that are boring or unpleasant just because it's our civic duty. I always found that taking my own books, a comfortable stadium seat to put in the wooden chair, some music with earphones and a little easy work from my job, kept me fully occupied in the days before laptops and iPads and wireless service in the jury assembly room. Now, of course, I just FReep.

41 posted on 05/15/2012 5:51:22 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

Sorry but you’re just plain wrong. The system is broken, it punishes the people who want to participate in our government by voting by forcing them to waste days in bad rooms not being on juries. The biggest problem is that there’s only about a 10% chance, so if there’s a 6 person jury that means 54 people wasted their day not being picked. THAT is a BROKEN system.

How the hell do they know if the jury members not being picked aren’t intelligent, most of them never get voir dired. Then of course there’s the classic joke, the people on the jury are the ones who couldn’t find a way to get out of jury duty just how smart can they really be. It’s funny because it’s true.

All your “proof” that it’s not broken revolves around the people that actually get to serve, which ignores why it is so obviously broken: most people will NEVER serve no matter how many times they show. Running the averages you’ve got to show up 10 times to get picked once. BROKEN. Actually your “proof” helps show that it’s broken, because if you’re good enough to be a “smart” juror then you should have been picked all ten times, but you weren’t, you never will be. The system fails. They call in too many people too often which results in people mostly doing nothing. I’d love to actually serve on a jury, but I won’t, my half a dozen trips down to never even get in a court room proved that, which is why I won’t go anymore. I’m done wasting MY time for YOUR broken system that doesn’t work. They should NEVER call in more than twice as many people as they need, ever. Instead they call in 10 times as many as they need every single day.


42 posted on 05/16/2012 8:54:24 AM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: discostu
They aren't just calling in jurors for the heck of it (it costs money and I don't know of any court that has money to waste). I understand that you're peeved because you feel your trips were for nothing -- but they were not for nothing. They're necessary because of how juries are selected and the need to provide as impartial a jury as possible.

You're not taking into account the need for multiple "strikes" -- which not every lawyer uses, but some use every blessed one. Any felony and any equity/superior court case, it's a jury of twelve unless the parties agree to fewer. There are extra strikes in felony cases, and still more strikes if it's a capital case. You generally have to have a minimum of 48 prospective jurors to get a jury of 12.

There are also disqualifications for cause: being a sworn law enforcement officer, being an employee or insured with an insurance company, knowing the parties or witnesses, having been a party to a similar case. In high profile cases, you have the additional problem of people having read or heard about the case and forming opinions.

Get enough challenges for cause, you have to pull in another panel or two from the jury room. So you have to provide not only for the anticipated number of 'free strikes', but also for challenges for cause. Obviously, the lawyers the day you were down at court were sensible and didn't use every strike, so you may feel like you weren't needed - but you were.

Otherwise, if there are not enough jurors there (and the crafty criminal defense lawyers come in the jury room and count noses - I saw a few I knew duck in and out a couple of times) they WOULD use every strike, and then when there weren't enough jurors move to dismiss under the Speedy Trial Act. Doesn't matter how good a system you try to set up, somebody is going to figure out how to game it. In cases where they know they'll have a problem, many courts use jury questionnaires by mail to weed out obvious disqualifications. But you can't do that on every case.

I'm sorry you think that you have wasted your day because you weren't picked -- it's necessary to have enough panels to provide for the attorney who uses every strike, and the oddball case where everybody seems to know the parties and have an opinion about it. The idea is not just to get "a" jury -- but to get a FAIR jury. You do agree, don't you, that it would be unfair to have somebody on the jury with an interest in the case, or a strong prejudice against one of the parties? I presume if you were a litigant you wouldn't like a juror or two in the box giving you dirty looks - or knowing that they were employed by your opponent?

Having sat in the jury assembly room for the Monday and Tuesday before I was chosen on Wednesday for a trial that lasted the rest of the week, I can tell you from chatting with other potential jurors and just looking over the group that it was a well-educated, conscientious bunch of people. Maybe Cobb County is just a particularly good county, with public-spirited citizens who DON'T decide that they are going to cut and run because the justice system is "wasting" a day or two of their precious time.

Besides, showing up for all those years really was worth it for the experience of serving. Oddly enough, it is a sacred duty, a little unnerving, a heavy responsibility. I understand a little better how it works now.

43 posted on 05/16/2012 3:36:41 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

My trips WERE for nothing, there’s no “feel” about it. Go down there, spend a day in the waiting room, never see the inside of a court room IS for NOTHING. It has nothing to do with how jurors are selected, it has to do with a court system that’s stupid and wastes everybody’s time.

You’re not taking into account the 90% “rejection” rate (I have to put rejection in quotes because the majority of people that don’t get picked for a jury are like I was, never voir dired, never actually considered, just sat in the room waiting for nothing to happen). That’s what makes the thing a tragic stupid pathetic indefensible waste of time and money. To get 6 jurors 60 people will be called in, and at least 30 of them will never leave the waiting room. That’s a waste.

It’s not 48 to get 12, is ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY to get 12. 48 might actually go through voir dire, the other 80 are because the system is broken and stupid.

You’ve got it backwards, there’s TOO MANY jurors, that’s why over half of them never get to voir dire. They call in too many people too often. Broken system.

There’s no “think” those WERE wasted days. If you went to the doctors office and spent the entire day in the waiting room without ever being seen at all would you consider that a wasted day? Of course you would, and you’d be right. Well that’s what over half of all people that show up for jury duty do, every single day. Wasted.

If the majority were actually at least getting to voir dire you’d be right. But they aren’t. That’s the issue you’re studiously ignoring. That the majority WON’T be struck, they WON’T get anywhere near the court room, they’re time is 100% WASTED.


44 posted on 05/16/2012 3:47:06 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: discostu
I did NOT say it was "48 to get 12". Please try to read what I wrote. 48 is the starting point - with a big well-publicized criminal case you will easily run through 2-3 panels of 48, maybe more. Given the constitutional guarantee of an impartial jury, I don't see any way around that.

Here's the other problem: I know you would feel better if you actually got voir dired, but the court cannot take multiple panels into the courtroom while voir dire is going on.

If the court did that, and one prospective juror engaged in an 'outburst' of some kind, if it were bad enough it would contaminate every prospective juror in the room - "I know he's guilty - he's a drug dealer and everybody knows it" - "I hate insurance companies - they killed my mother and left my family to starve and they're all a bunch of crooks! I can prove it!" Trial court won't take a chance on trying a whole case for 2-3 days and then having an appellate court reverse because the pool was contaminated.

So if they voir dired everyone just to make you happy, they would need even MORE jurors in case of accidents. That's why each panel stays in the jury room until called for. If the lawyers don't use all their strikes (and most don't because they're sensible and it really hacks off the court and the jurors) then you'll never leave the jury room.

But the court has to provide for the loony lawyers, especially the flamboyant criminal defense attorneys who are just there to tweak the judge's nose, angle for a contempt citation, and try to get their clients off by fair means or foul. If you want to blame somebody, blame them. The courts are just trying to checkmate their efforts to burn up the jury pool and let the defendants walk via the Speedy Trial Act.

I wish you could understand about the necessity to prevent unscrupulous people from gaming the system. It's a shame when people are called and don't get to serve, but it's necessary to protect the rights of the accused, and also protect the public from being preyed upon by criminals who otherwise would walk on a technicality.

In the old days, when they ran out of jurors, the sheriff was authorized to just go out on the street and grab as many people as necessary to fill out the panel. They don't do that anymore because of the constitutional requirement of a random jury pool.

It's far from a perfect system, but as Churchill said it's better than all the others that have been tried. And my experience over 30 years is that by and large it works to deliver justice. A court-martial board properly constituted may be a fairer shake, but that will never go in civilian life.

45 posted on 05/17/2012 7:03:23 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

I don’t know why you keep going on and on and on about the selection process. That’s NOT the part that I’m pointing out is broken. The part that’s broken is BEFORE that, the bunch of people that will be called in and NEVER actually go through the selection process. Forget all that actual selection, that’s besides the point. It’s like I’m talking about NFL concussions and you keep blathering about baseball, DIFFERENT THING.

I don’t want to to voir dire everyone to make people happy, I want them to NOT summon people everybody KNOWS they will never voir dire. Depending one where you’re reading the estimate of the percentage of people that get summoned and NEVER serve run from 70% to 90%, and the vast majority of them never go through any form of a selection process. And everybody knows they won’t. The courts are one of the most entrenched bureaucracies on the planet, they know what percentage of people voir dired are going to get knocked out, and they know how many jurors they need, so they know how many people they actually need to call in. And they also know that they’re calling in 2 to 3 times as many as they need. And THAT is a pathetic waste of time for a broken system.

Sorry but this system isn’t even close to the best that’s been tried. In fact it’s pretty much the worst because they have all the data necessary to not do it wrong and they continue to do it wrong. It’s a simple fix really, they have all the data necessary, stop calling in 2 to 3 times as many people as they know they need.


46 posted on 05/17/2012 8:35:44 AM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: discostu
OK, I'm going to try to explain this one more time, then I'm giving up because you simply do not want to understand.

The people who sit in the jury assembly room and are never called are there because of the way the selection process works in the courtroom:

1. If a criminal case goes into intensive voir dire, the extra jurors will be needed because of criminal defense attorneys using as many challenges for cause as they can on top of their peremptory strikes.

2. You cannot confidently predict when this will happen, although you have clues. So you can use up a lot of panels in a hurry with, say, a big murder case and a jury panel that has heard the news about it and formed opinions. Because the jury summons are sent out randomly, you cannot predict how many jurors will be disqualified for cause in any particular case. And judges are inclined to grant peremptories simply because the overall cost of a reversal and retrial is substantial - and wastes everyone's time.

3. If extra jurors are not waiting in the assembly room and a defense attorney is successful in using up every juror on the panel in the courtroom, then said defense attorney will successfully move to dismiss the charges against his client under the Speedy Trial Act. The Act requires the court to have sufficient jurors available to try the defendant when he announces "ready". If they are not there, the defendant will walk.

4. Therefore, the court MUST have a bunch of extra prospective jurors waiting in the jury assembly room. The public fallout from allowing a notorious criminal to walk out of the courtroom a free man is just too great.

I'm sorry, I can't explain it any better than that. And given your inability or refusal to understand, it's probably better if you don't serve on a jury anyway.

47 posted on 05/17/2012 5:45:11 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

And once again you blather on and on and on about stuff that IS NOT THE PROBLEM. You’re the one who does not want to understand. They call 2 to 3 times as many people as they need. That’s stupid and wrong. None of your “ifs” happen, EVER. The system is broken and your defense of it is worse.


48 posted on 05/18/2012 8:10:19 AM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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