Skip to comments.Jonah Goldberg: ‘Violence solves all sorts of problems’
Posted on 05/17/2012 1:09:37 PM PDT by Nachum
Washington - National Review Online editor Jonah Goldberg spoke Wednesday about how violence solves all sorts of problems and argued against the critique that Jesus was a pacifist. (Snip) A lot of people think we get this idea [that violence solves nothing] from Jesus, Goldberg said. This is one of the things they love: You hypocritical conservatives, you think violence is a solution you call yourself a Christian, youre not. Jesus told his followers to carry swords. Unless he had some sort of theory that fell out of in the Apocrypha that these were just great big kabob skewers,
(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...
Right Mr. President?
It solved Hitler.
War is simply the last step in politics. Pacifism, Negotiation, Disagreement, Treaty, Violation, Aggression conduct, physically aggressive conduct, etc....
WAR...whoaoaoa whoahaoha hwoawhoahw yeah...war what is it good for? ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING
So Jesus was just negotiating with those money changers in the Temple?
“The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.” Adolf Hitler
10. Violence sometimes IS the answer. If someone is raping your wife, asking him to please stop is not as effective as a .45 caliber bullet traveling at his face at 1041 feet per second. If you are unwilling or unable to fight for your beliefs and your liberty, you dont have rights you have polite requests.
From the 27 Prepper Precepts
I agree with everything said here.
Now, when do we begin?
Jonah is throwing himself under the bus here.
Yes Jesus ordered disciples to carry swords to the Garden of Gethsemane but only as a self-defense warning to Temple guards that might try and take the disciples.
When one of his disciple drew his sword Jesus told him to stop.
I am sure Jesus saw his disciples as his witness who would one day be full of the Holy Spirit. He wished they to be preserved for the work ahead after his ascension.
The swords were only to keep the Temple guards at bay while Jesus told them it was He they came for, to leave the others.
Jesus was not violent at all and never espoused it.
Violence solved a lot of problems for Joe Stalin, Mao, Hitler and Mussolini.. and every other tin pot dictator..
And violence will solve many problems for Americas left OH!.. and the UNIONS.. which includes the police, teachers and firefighters.. and every givernment worker in the federal, state and local givernments..
Wisconsin is exactly a good test case to watch..
Those people are all parasites.. on “a HOST”..
My favorte is this one, “I came not to bring peace but a sword”
Jesus came to earth for the purpose of being unjustly crucified on our behalf.
Our purpose on this earth is different.
Violence got Trayvon Martin off of George Zimmerman in a hurry.
Yes. It is to spread the Gospel. Unlike Islam, we don’t use the Sword to spread it.
He sure does swing that sword well in revelation for a non-violent person. He also directs his people in the OT to kill an awful lot of people (violently) for someone who doesn't espouse violence.
Jesus is violent when the situation calls for violence. (Such as clearing the temple) and peaceful when it calls for peace. He never said we could not, or should not, defend the innocents.
There is a difference between using a sword to spread your faith and using one to defend yourself.
You know this yet you pretend not to.
Why is that?
1. How were Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan destroyed?
2. How was slavery abolished?
2. How was your freedom to put any bumper sticker, no matter how stupid, on your car secured?
Three questions to which “WAR” is the answer.
Beg to differ with Jonah regarding Jesus, however I am not a pacifist and not promoting it as a realistic way to deal with the world.
And Jesus did not know that he was speaking to a soldier when he told him to do no murder and be satisfied with his wages?
My favorte is this one, I came not to bring peace but a sword
How ‘bout “Praise the Lord but pass the ammunition”.
Yeah. Some loser at a demonstration had a “War is Never the Answer” sign. I engaged him, and pointed out it depends on the question. Ask Napoleon, Hitler, Tojo or Lee if war isn’t the answer. Left the idiot literally speechless.
“Unlike Islam, we dont use the Sword to spread it.”
This century, you mean.
(I am a fan of Christians, but don’t kid yourself that Christianity was not spread at the point of a sword and gun.)
Theoretical of course....since I saw nothing in that scripture that supports Jesus issuing that warning over concerns over the temple guards.
I like the Patrick Swayze approach in “Roadhouse”....”Be nice...until it’s time to not be nice.”
It solved the original Ozymandius ... and countless other similar folks before him.
You have a misunderstanding of the word ‘violent’.
Jesus was not violent and never espoused it period.
Actions which you call ‘violent’ were not violent. Cleaning the Temple of money changers was ‘cleaning’ the Temple and not an act of violence against the violators of the Temple rules. He was enforcing the rules not advocating physical bodily harm.
To stretch Jesus’ actions of defense and enforcement into acts of ‘violence’ is hysterical and false.
You also have a misunderstanding of the
biblical terms translated to ‘sword’.
The word ‘sword’ came from two different words having different meanings. One is a metaphor and was used to denote ‘the Word of God’.
“And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword [machaira] of the Spirit, which is the word of God” (Ephesians 6:17)
This link can help you sort out your confusion:
But we should if need be use the sword to defend it and to defend those that can’t defend themselves.
I love my Barrett 82A1 .50 BMG!
Then why did He say to grab the swords on their way to the garden?
The swords were taken as a warning against violence, purely for defensive purposes for the disciples, certainly not to protect Himself. The only persons that could threaten violence in this setting were the Temple guards.
Oh, now you've gone and done it. Pretty soon some Freeper is going to make the case for the .357 Magnum, then the 10mm guys will chime in, then the .40 faction will be heard, and eventually some goof will offer the opinion that a .22LR round is all you need.
This is going to be a long thread.
> My favorte is this one, I came not to bring peace but a sword
The word ‘sword’ in this case is a metaphor for the ‘Word of God’.
“Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.” Ephesians 6:17
You only have to open your eyes to see that violence is sometimes the ONLY answer.
This country and modern representative government only exists BECAUSE of violent uprising. Before the American Revolution, it was punishable to even question a monarch's absolute authority. For centuries, all of western civilization was controlled by a handful of inter-marrying families and absolute power was handed down by birth. Then America happened and everyone else soon followed.
If all the people in history followed the rules and were nonviolent, we would all still be subjects of an absolute monarchy with 99% living in ignorance and TRUE poverty. We would still likely be living in a pre-industrial world.
"But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other" - Matthew 5:39
Were the “purse and scrip”, mentioned in the same breath as the “sword” reference, also a matter of interacting with Temple guards?
For that matter, where in that section are “Temple guards” referred to? I’m not seeing it.
That verse brackets one at the beginning of His ministry, where He tells them to give up those things and put their full faith and needs in him, right down to giving up money and bags to carry stuff. Then, here at the end of His ministry, He directs them to take those items back up again - and includes swords as a new item in the list.
Note too that a couple disciples already had swords in their immediate possession, so one may presume they were carrying ‘em about for a while and He was fully away of the fact (both in omniscient knowledge and in the mundane fact it’s hard to keep a >2-foot razor blade hidden for very long when you’re living in a hot climate and not carrying much else to conceal it). His response to “here, we have two” wasn’t “huh? what? WHY? get rid of ‘em already!” (nor was it “nice start, now all of you arm yourselves to the teeth”). Nor, when used for defense or thereafter, did He direct them to get rid of the things.
BTW: don’t forget He beat the snot out of those selling things in the Temple, and when asked about defending himself opined that he had a legion of angels at His command (implication was He wasn’t going to have them sung into compliance).
I just knew that some humorless, self-appointed Bible-cop would show up to take issue with my comment. Get a life.
Lesseehere, which Commandment addressed “coveting”?
John 2:12-22 "... So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. ..."
Sounds pretty violent. This wasn't going table to table having persuasive theological discussions.
Make claims about His thought that are contradicted by His words and I'll call you on it every time. Deal.
I don’t know of any; covet away! It’s a s-w-e-e-t firearm, and so is my Beowulf .50cal & ACOG, for “shorter-range wet-work”:
No different than a priest or nun in a school paddling an impudent incorrigible student.
Jesus was a Rabbi and the money changers knew it, and they knew the Temple rules.
Jesus was cleaning house and ready to spank those who willingly flaunted the rules. That’s not ‘violence’, that’s parenting and enforcement.
He did not “beat the snot out of those selling things in the Temple”. See Post #46.
Going after adults with a whip, overturning tables and dumping cashboxes in the process, is usually interpreted that way. This ain’t just a swat with a ruler across the knuckles or backside.
I can’t speak for Christians (or Jewish people), but Rome and others before her say that slaves should be endlessly forgiving and tolerant. They don’t need any stinking freedoms.
[Little irony and sarcasm from a Gentile somewhat follower of Judaism. I left the plantation for monotheism.]