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Trayvon Martin’s death was ‘ultimately avoidable’: Florida police report
NY DAILY NEWS ^ | 5/18/12 | ALIYAH SHAHID

Posted on 05/18/2012 5:58:15 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper

Trayvon Martin's death was “avoidable.”

That’s the conclusion of a new police report on the unarmed teen’s killing at the hands of George Zimmerman in Sanford, Fla.

"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely, if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern," the document by Sanford, Fla. Police said.

(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: georgezimmerman; race; trayvon; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
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To: wtc911; SoFloFreeper

Hmmm, according to police and ME reports, skittle boy’s knuckles are all mashed up and then we have Zimmerman’s face all mashed up.

Did Zimmerman decide to assault skittle boy’s knuckles with his face?


161 posted on 05/18/2012 10:02:51 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: wtc911
As for Zimmerman's statement...I don't believe it...

So you believe some of Zimmerman's statement(s), but not all of them. All of his statements are self-supporting, but let's ignore the FACT that the evidence supports his statements. All of Zimmerman's wounds would be consistent with being sucker punched and attacked.

Your suggestion that this could have also occurred had Zimmerman already brandished his weapon is simply preposterous. So, Zimmerman is brandishing or simply showing that he is armed, you speculate that Martin is going to punch him and then start punching and beating his head on the ground (eye witness testimony), INSTEAD of going directly for the weapon in a effort to disarm him? That is completely devoid of any kind of reality!
162 posted on 05/18/2012 10:06:16 AM PDT by ExTxMarine (PRAYER: It's the only HOPE for real CHANGE in America!)
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To: SZonian

Hmmmm...please post a link to any reliable witness who saw Martin start the fight. Without one your post is speculation.


163 posted on 05/18/2012 10:08:24 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Iron Munro
Come on, "John"? Really?

Show me where in John's statement he says that he saw the beginning of the fight.

Here's a little help...he doesn't.

164 posted on 05/18/2012 10:10:50 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: ExTxMarine

“then I think Zimmerman would have been arrested on the night of the incident. Since he would have failed to follow the rules and standards of the neighborhood watch program - no guns allowed”

Those are just rules, though, right? I don’t assume it’s illegal for neighborhood watchmen to carry weapons. Breaking the rules oughtn’t to remove your right to self-defense. I suppose it could tip the scales in favor of supposing you were out looking for trouble and therefore probably started the fight. But then the preponderance of evidence should also show that, and not in the manner that Zimmerman leaving his car is pretended to prove he started it.

What I’m saying is, it would only be one out of many bits of evidence. After all, don’t vigilantes get to defend themselves, too, so long as others attack them? Even if they’re out looking for a fight, I mean, and through discipline restrict themselves to waiting for a fight to come to them. Or is that a form of entrapment?


165 posted on 05/18/2012 10:12:45 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: wtc911
Yep, all that evidence is exactly what I mean...it shows nothing except that there was a fight and Zimmerman was losing.

This is where you are WRONG!. This evidence shows that Zimmerman never put a finger on Martin except in a DEFENSIVE manner. Therefore, Zimmerman was the DEFENDANT and Martin was the ATTACKER.

Oh, now I get it, Zimmerman must have said a "dirty word", which so offended the 12-year old prepubescent, Skittles-toting toddler that he then punched Zimmerman. Therefore, it was Zimmerman's fault. I NOW understand you way of thinking.
166 posted on 05/18/2012 10:13:24 AM PDT by ExTxMarine (PRAYER: It's the only HOPE for real CHANGE in America!)
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To: ExTxMarine

Zimmerman’s brother said that Zimmerman said they were struggling for the gun. And, you avoided the question...did you ever see anybody start a fight and then get his ass kicked? It’s simple...either yes or no will suffice.


167 posted on 05/18/2012 10:14:12 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: dirtboy; wtc911
I think he was a NYC cop, which would explain his attitude toward citizens self-policing their nieghborhoods.

Anyone who doesn't cower behind the curtains and let the "professionals" handle it is a "macho fool."

Add in his pathological inability to admit, "hey, I was wrong," and he's not hard to figure out at all.

168 posted on 05/18/2012 10:15:59 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: ExTxMarine
This evidence shows that Zimmerman never put a finger on Martin except in a DEFENSIVE manner

__________________________

Really? It shows that he never grabbed or pushed or punched in the chest...none of which would leave a mark on Zimmerman or Martin?,P>

It shows that he didn't show the gun or reach for it?

Please explain in detail (AND WITHOUT SHOUTING) exactly how the evidence shows this.

169 posted on 05/18/2012 10:17:59 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass
Add in his pathological inability to admit, "hey, I was wrong,"

_______________________________

Hey, trailer park badass - post a link proving Martin attacked Zimmerman and I'll say "sure, absolutely I was wrong". Go ahead...post it.

170 posted on 05/18/2012 10:20:39 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: wtc911

Zimmerman himself also told police that Martin saw his gun and went for the weapon. At which time they struggled and he shot Martin.

And yes, I have seen someone start a fight and then lose. I am currently involved in such a thing on a blog, where this guy, completely devoid of reality, started speculating things which do not match the evidence. He is losing the fight, but doesn’t even realize it - it is almost sad.


171 posted on 05/18/2012 10:21:21 AM PDT by ExTxMarine (PRAYER: It's the only HOPE for real CHANGE in America!)
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To: BlueMondaySkipper
Martin had THC in his system, so you are completely wrong in your claim. He was stoned.

_________________________________

THC lingers in the system for days in the occasional user and for weeks in the habitual user. Trace amounts in the system do not mean that the person was stoned. It means that at sometime in the past days or weeks he smoked.

172 posted on 05/18/2012 10:23:54 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: kidd
The police report in the article is way out of line for the speculation provided.

I chose this line to highlight - it backs my outrage. That said, I could have chosen any line you wrote - highlighted it - and agreed with it. You're good - realistic and knowledgeable. I assume you've had experience in law enforcement and that you're a good person. Thanks for sharing.

173 posted on 05/18/2012 10:24:29 AM PDT by GOPJ ( "A Dog In Every Pot" - freeper ETL)
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To: wtc911

“Sorry but all you state is evidence that there was a fight and that Zimmerman was losing”

I’m sorry if you’re not aware that analysis of wounds can be used to suggest which party was the attacker and which defended themselves, and that this is considered evidence. But that’s the case, and if Zimmerman was the attacker you would expect to see different wounds on himself and Martin. The eye witness testimony is less robust, but it does show that at some point Martin was on top of Zimmerman, as Zimmerman said, and that at some point Martin turned into the aggressor if he wasn’t to begin with.

If Zimmerman was losing a fight he started, as you and Zimmerman agree he eventually was, he would have to have been losing from the very beginning. As in, he didn’t get in any blows, or any blows of great consequence, at all. Which is possible, but again, we’re only looking for evidence that Martin started it, not absolute proof.

You are correct to assert nothing proves beyond a reasonable doubt Martin was the attacker. But I’m not seeking to do so, and all you asked for was evidence Martin was the attacker. Well, there you go.


174 posted on 05/18/2012 10:25:23 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: ExTxMarine
And yes, I have seen someone start a fight and then lose.

_____________________________

Then tell us exactly how you know for a fact that this is not what happened, especially given the fact that Zimmerman was pro-active (if not aggressive) in following Martin and Martin had, according to Zimmerman himself, tried to avoid contact by running away.

175 posted on 05/18/2012 10:27:16 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: wtc911

“As for Zimmerman’s statement...I don’t believe it any more than I would have believed Martin’s statement had he ended up the one still living. It is self-serving and, without any neutral corroborating statements, should be seen as such”

Ah, but you must know, I’m sure, the way these things are used is to test them against the evidence. If the defendant’s comments and testimony don’t jive with the evidence it doesn’t automatically mean he’s guilty, nor does it mean he’s innocent if they do. But his statements lining up with the evidence can in itself be treated as evidence of his innocence. And I’m not aware of one instance in which Zimmerman’s account of events is contradicted by the police report, the 9-11 tape, the medical evidence, eye witness testimony, etc.

Of course, one reason his story isn’t contradicted by what we know of who started the fight is that we don’t have any direct, inarguable evidence of who started it. But that doesn’t mean his statements fitting with the known evidence isn’t itself evidence.


176 posted on 05/18/2012 10:30:25 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane
I’m sorry if you’re not aware that analysis of wounds can be used to suggest which party was the attacker and which defended themselves, and that this is considered evidence.

__________________________________

Please show where, in law, a suggestion is evidence.

The point is a simple one. There are many freepers swearing that Martin attacked Zimmerman and getting truly upset when asked for proof. Regardless of how upset they get, none can provide proof beyond 'suggestions'.

177 posted on 05/18/2012 10:32:11 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: BlueMondaySkipper

“Martin had THC in his system, so you are completely wrong in your claim. He was stoned, that is illegal and it was in his system during this episode. Care to retract the above claim?”

Well, the previous poster made a claim about Martin’s actions “in this episode.” THC, or the remnants thereof, stay in your body for a while. I’m not sure we’ve been given a time frame for what they found in Martin, but presumably they won’t be able to determine whether he was high at the time of the attack, or had gotten high at some point prior.


178 posted on 05/18/2012 10:33:25 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: ExTxMarine
He is losing the fight, but doesn’t even realize it - it is almost sad.

It is not ALMOST sad. It is very sad, and pathetic. You should have some mercy on the weak minded. What you are doing is like trying to get a liberal to admit Obama is a failure. It's simply pointless. There are none so blind, as those who will not see.
179 posted on 05/18/2012 10:33:47 AM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Tublecane

The court will consider his statement to be self-serving. The SC has declared that it is assumed that anybody will lie to mitigate responsibility or punishment. I do not take his statement as fully truthful.


180 posted on 05/18/2012 10:36:05 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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