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George Zimmerman Case: Should Charges Be Dropped?
ABC News ^ | May 21, 2012 | Matt Gutman

Posted on 05/21/2012 5:39:01 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Two prominent U.S. lawyers are among the skeptics questioning whether evidence in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin supports the second-degree murder charge against George Zimmerman, given the confessed shooter's apparent injuries and freshly released eyewitness accounts.

"There is no second-degree murder evidence in this case," Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz said. "It's a very close case."

Details released in the past week add to the picture of what might have transpired on that rainy Feb. 26 before Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain in the Sanford, Fla., community where Martin, 17, was staying with his father's fiancée, shot the teen dead.

Previously unknown particulars, including the scrape on Martin's knuckle and photos of Zimmerman's battered and swollen face -- which were taken moments after he shot and killed Martin in what he says was self defense -- coupled with eyewitness accounts that back up Zimmerman's story, suggest for some that the prosecutor overreached.

"I'd rather play the defense than the prosecutor, because there's no way you get a murder-two conviction," journalist-attorney Geraldo Rivera said on Fox News' "The O'Reilly Factor" last week....

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: blackkk; dershowitz; florida; georgezimmerman; trayvon; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
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To: yldstrk
the popo told Z. not to pursue and he got himself “a problem” when he did pursue.

There's nothing to suggest that Zimmerman kept pursuing St. Trayvon after the operator said that. The Narrative Media took that quote by itself to imply that Zimmerman ignored it and kept going, since a fight occurred thereafter. But on the tape, Zimmerman tells the operator, "Okay," and starts breathing normally. Sounds as if he broke off the chase and walked back to his truck. Because somehow, Trayvon got shot a short distance from Zimmerman's truck. How did he get there? He must have followed Zimmerman and jumped him—as Zimmerman said in his account. Unless Sharpton is going to claim he shot Tray and carried him back to his truck for field-dressing.

51 posted on 05/21/2012 6:26:17 AM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: norwaypinesavage

You mean why wasn’t the one who charged Zimmerman paid the bounty?

Why would the man they had put the bounty on, be paid the bounty?

In all seriousness, the bounty was to be paid to any black man who would find and detain Zimmerman so the Black Panthers could have at him.

Since that didn’t happen, no bounty was paid.


52 posted on 05/21/2012 6:26:30 AM PDT by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR" - Glenn Beck)
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To: JimRed

OOPS< I forgot the < /rant > tag!


53 posted on 05/21/2012 6:26:44 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Doogle

I think the motives included turning out the black vote for Obama. Remember Jesse J telling blacks to wear hoodies to the polls? The shooter isn’t even white, this was seized on just as you knew they would seize on something.


54 posted on 05/21/2012 6:27:42 AM PDT by Williams (Nobama)
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To: All

This is THE case for jury nullification. If found guilty, those who persecuted GZ will be emboldened to invoke the “Trayvon Martin” defense every time one of these self defense shootings come up.


55 posted on 05/21/2012 6:28:34 AM PDT by Molon Labbie (Prep. Now. Live Healthy, take your Shooting Iron daily.)
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To: Kriggerel
If Zimmerman were smart, when the charges are dropped and/or he’s found not guilty, he needs to move to some South Pacific island, or some place like Liechtenstein or Monaco.

But before he moves, he needs to sue the s#*t out of the race pimps and the MSM for a few million.

56 posted on 05/21/2012 6:30:34 AM PDT by Sirius Lee (When we cease to be good we'll cease to be great. Be for Goode.)
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To: Kriggerel
If Zimmerman were smart, when the charges are dropped and/or he’s found not guilty, he needs to move to some South Pacific island, or some place like Liechtenstein or Monaco.

But before he moves, he needs to sue the s#*t out of the race pimps and the MSM for a few million.

57 posted on 05/21/2012 6:30:34 AM PDT by Sirius Lee (When we cease to be good we'll cease to be great. Be for Goode.)
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To: norwaypinesavage

The bounty was to be paid to any black man or black men who could find and hold Zimmerman so he could undergo “justice” at the hands of the Black Panthers.

It can’t be relevant to wonder why Zimmerman wasn’t paid the bounty in return for surrendering to authorities.

As for turning himself in, he did so pursuant to being charged with second degree murder. Had he not complied with being taken into custody, he would have been a wanted fugiitive.

He had no choice, unless he wanted to try escaping to a country beyond the authorities’ jurisdiction.


58 posted on 05/21/2012 6:31:18 AM PDT by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR" - Glenn Beck)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The dispatcher most certainly does not have the authority to order anyone around. Not only that, even if a police officer, who was not on the scene and did not have all the facts told Zimmerman to not follow, that police officer would have a hard time making a case of “failure to obey the legal and lawful commands of a police officer.”

Zimmerman was doing ABSOLUTELY nothing legally wrong in following Martin.


59 posted on 05/21/2012 6:33:36 AM PDT by Molon Labbie (Prep. Now. Live Healthy, take your Shooting Iron daily.)
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To: yldstrk; txrangerette
-- I mean, the facts as they are currently "known" show TM was shot in the chest from a medium distance. --

The forensic report on Martin's clothing says "contact" shot. Contact with the clothing, that is. The clothing will obtain some of the burn energy, etc. and make the wound on the body appear as one that (had it been to bare skin) came from farther away.

I'd say the evidence has the muzzle of the gun no more than 3 inches from Martin's skin.

60 posted on 05/21/2012 6:35:18 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Is it true that under Florida’s mandatory 10-20-Life law that Zimmerman, if convicted of ANY felony in which someone died of a gunshot wound, will have a MANDATORY 25-to-life sentence, even for 2nd degree manslaughter (if that’s a felony)?


61 posted on 05/21/2012 6:37:40 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: crosshairs
I think Hannity went to Beauty College, as much as he admires himself.

You don't have to like Hannity, but IMHO he deserves respect for having worked his way through college, a concept foreign to much of today's youth. Dishwasher, busboy, waiter, bartender, construction jobs; try to get YOUR (general comment, not you specifically, crosshairs) spoiled kids to do those jobs!

I'm happy to have him on our side, even if he is wrong now and then.

62 posted on 05/21/2012 6:37:52 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Ironfocus
Do you have a link?

I would like to see that

63 posted on 05/21/2012 6:40:53 AM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: verga

Here you go..also mentions this was scrubbed from his Youtube account soon after his death.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/05/newly-discovered-video-previously-scrubbed-from-youtube-shows-trayvon-martin-participating-in-local-fight-club/


64 posted on 05/21/2012 6:44:08 AM PDT by Ironfocus (Unseat the Looter-in-Chief)
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To: Gargantua
Given what he'll receive in book advance(s), movie rights, and out-of-court cash settlements from the Florida State, County, Police and prosecutors when he immediately slaps every one with an open-and-shut charge of improper arrest and professional negligence compounded with severe mental anguish and slam-dunk life-threatening related causation, he'll be able to buy a South Pacific island... and a colored staff to run it!
I sure hope you are right. I would love to see it.
65 posted on 05/21/2012 6:44:14 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: Cboldt
I'd say the evidence has the muzzle of the gun no more than 3 inches from Martin's skin.

Isn't it obvious? There was a struggle for the gun and it went off accidentally.

66 posted on 05/21/2012 6:46:09 AM PDT by Liberty Wins (Newt --named after Isaac Newton?)
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To: SamuraiScot
-- There's nothing to suggest that Zimmerman kept pursuing St. Trayvon after the operator said that. The Narrative Media took that quote by itself to imply that Zimmerman ignored it and kept going, since a fight occurred thereafter. --

FWIW, the prosecutor makes the same error in the affidavit in support of the charging document.

She has to be basing that assertion on DeeDee, because other than DeeDee, all the evidence contradicts Zimmerman following (and the recorded evidence of what the dispatcher said contradicts what the prosecutor claims).

[the dispatcher] instructed Zimmerman not to [follow Martin] and that the responding officer would meet [Zimmerman]. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home.
So says the prosecutor. The prosecutor can't come close to proving that, as DeeDee herself has Martin moving away from his "home" after reaching it; and the site of the fight is 70 yards from Martin's "home." If DeeDee's testimony is cherry picked (set aside what I just noted), she is the ONLY source for "Zimmerman continued to follow Martin." The recorded call with dispatch appears to contradict this cherry-picked narrative; as it has Zimmerman losing sight of Martin.

At any rate, I think it is worth remembering that the press has been told, by the prosecutor, that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin [after Zimmerman lost sight of Martin], and that it isn;t the press making this up out of whole cloth after listening to Zimmerman's recorded conversation with dispatch.

67 posted on 05/21/2012 6:48:48 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"There is no second-degree murder evidence in this case," Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz said. "It's a very close case."

HUH? He contradicts himself in two sentences.

There is no credible evidence against Zimmerman and he will walk eventually. Then Holder will get him and he will do time.

68 posted on 05/21/2012 6:52:53 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Obama versus Romney? Cyanide versus arsenic.)
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To: Liberty Wins
-- Isn't it obvious? There was a struggle for the gun and it went off accidentally. --

I'm not sure of that, although is not unreasonable speculation. On the side that the firing was a deliberate act by Zimmerman, we have Zimmerman saying "I shot him" instead of something like "the gun just went off."

The purpose of my post was to provide the evidence outside of what the coroner said, to narrow the range of distance between the muzzle and Martin. Because there is no witness to the moment of the shot, and at least Cutcher and her roomie Selma have said there was no fighting just before the shot rang out (after they said they couldn't hear fighting at all), the prosecutor and maybe investigator Serino though it possible that Martin had separated himself from Zimmerman before being shot. If the shot is from a foot and half, it makes that "separation before shot" scenario possible. No so much when the distance is 3 inches.

69 posted on 05/21/2012 6:56:04 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Graybeard58

By the time the murder trial, if it even occurs, is over, Mr. Holder will be a private citizen with absolutely no power over Mr. Zimmerman, unless the stupid party falls on its sword again and lets Barry win.


70 posted on 05/21/2012 6:58:55 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: sickoflibs
Welcome to Obama’s united America...

Think of it this way - we're starting to have that real discussion on race - not the fake one liberals wanted us to have - but the real one... where both sides get to speak.

71 posted on 05/21/2012 7:02:36 AM PDT by GOPJ ( "A Dog In Every Pot" - freeper ETL)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If the charges are dropped based on “Stand Your Ground” he cannot be re-tried and no civil suits against him are allowed

If Obama/Holder are still in office, Zimmerman can and will be "retried", technically not "retried" but factually that's what it is. He will be charged, tried and convicted at the federal level for "hate crimes". This is not without precedent either.

72 posted on 05/21/2012 7:04:08 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Obama versus Romney? Cyanide versus arsenic.)
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To: Ironfocus

Thank you, now to get the Lame stream media to bring this out. Yeah I know I am not holding my breath.


73 posted on 05/21/2012 7:06:40 AM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: GOPJ
RE :”Think of it this way - we're starting to have that real discussion on race - not the fake one liberals wanted us to have - but the real one... where both sides get to speak

That is exactly how liberals phrase it. They repeat over and over how white America must join the discussion on race; all the while shouting down anyone who disagrees with them and calling them racist.

Obama’s entire past before the Presidency is off limits because any discussion of his past is racist.

74 posted on 05/21/2012 7:09:13 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is a liberal. Just watch him closely try to screw us.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

ABC referred to Geraldo Rivera as a “conservative”!!!1


75 posted on 05/21/2012 7:09:19 AM PDT by School of Rational Thought (Fun for women ages 21 through 35)
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To: GOPJ
RE :”Think of it this way - we're starting to have that real discussion on race - not the fake one liberals wanted us to have - but the real one... where both sides get to speak

That is exactly how liberals phrase it. They repeat over and over how white America must join the discussion on race; all the while shouting down anyone who disagrees with them and calling them racist.

Obama’s entire past before the Presidency is off limits because any discussion of his past is racist.

76 posted on 05/21/2012 7:10:05 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is a liberal. Just watch him closely try to screw us.)
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To: Cboldt

“FWIW, the prosecutor makes the same error in the affidavit in support of the charging document.”

She’s not making an error, she has access to ALL the evidence. What she’s doing is deliberate politically motivated malfeasance and why she should be disbarred and jailed.


77 posted on 05/21/2012 7:12:14 AM PDT by MtBaldy (If Obama is the answer, it must have been a really stupid question)
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To: MtBaldy
-- She's not making an error, she has access to ALL the evidence. What she's doing is deliberate politically motivated malfeasance and why she should be disbarred and jailed. -- I hope she gets it.

But my point was to distinguish the malfeasance as between the press and Corey; and, not that I like to do it, cut the press some slack for repeating the official narrative of events.

78 posted on 05/21/2012 7:17:08 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: yldstrk
Re: "he got himself a problem when he did pursue."

_________________

From the evidence dump. - Witness said she looked out her sliding glass door and saw “two men chasing each other".

79 posted on 05/21/2012 7:18:51 AM PDT by anglian
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To: verga

They won’t but the Zimmerman defense will.


80 posted on 05/21/2012 7:25:14 AM PDT by Ironfocus (Unseat the Looter-in-Chief)
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To: Cboldt

“But my point was to distinguish the malfeasance as between the press and Corey; and, not that I like to do it, cut the press some slack for repeating the official narrative of events.”

Ok, you have a point. Though I think the press has a duty to verify ALL information they publish even information from official sources.


81 posted on 05/21/2012 7:28:26 AM PDT by MtBaldy (If Obama is the answer, it must have been a really stupid question)
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To: Venturer

she is the second prosecutor.

the first said there was no case.

this was prosecutor shopping. It should be as illegal as judge shopping.


82 posted on 05/21/2012 7:42:32 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Sacajaweau

I agree, Obama is pulling the strings and the stand your ground laws are the real target.


83 posted on 05/21/2012 7:45:00 AM PDT by Eva
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To: heshtesh

If Obama is driving this lynch mob, and I suspect he is, the very least the gov. owes Zimmerman is the protection of the witness protection program for Zimmerman and his entire family, including his parents. Remember the mob was tweeting what they thought was the elder Zimmerman’s address.


84 posted on 05/21/2012 7:45:40 AM PDT by Wiser now (Socialism does not eliminate poverty, it guarantees it.)
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To: Ironfocus

Is FNC or any other mainstream media reporting this? Martin certainly was not the innocent boy portrayed in the media.


85 posted on 05/21/2012 7:58:28 AM PDT by KansasGirl
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To: Erik Latranyi

Then perhaps you should also pay for Mr. Zimmerman’s lawyer fees...


86 posted on 05/21/2012 8:03:17 AM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Charges should have never been brought against GZ. If anything GZ should have filed against the little thug’s parents.


87 posted on 05/21/2012 8:09:13 AM PDT by bgill
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To: Cboldt

The TONE of Mr. Zimmerman’s “I shot him” statement is what I want to hear.


88 posted on 05/21/2012 8:09:24 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Erik Latranyi

Unfortunately, if it goes to trial the TrayMom and Crump will file law suits against everyone possible. That is really the reason these people want this in court and then SYG repealled so they can sue. MONEY MONEY MONEY


89 posted on 05/21/2012 8:22:10 AM PDT by Jaded (Really? Seriously?)
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To: Sacajaweau

Tracy Martin’s SIL was an attorney who called Crump who called in his favorite white PR hack, Ryan Julison who corroborated and called in Al and Jesse.... and Jesse’s buddy Eric.


90 posted on 05/21/2012 8:26:01 AM PDT by Jaded (Really? Seriously?)
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To: yldstrk
“on the grounds that the popo told Z. not to pursue”

THEY DID NO SUCH THING.

Look it up!

91 posted on 05/21/2012 8:26:44 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

They seem to be doing well as it is. This weekend in Baltimore was the parents 4 or 5th public appearance in their world tour.


92 posted on 05/21/2012 8:29:03 AM PDT by Jaded (Really? Seriously?)
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To: txrangerette

tx ranger “ette” might have been a clue!


93 posted on 05/21/2012 8:32:54 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: crosshairs

CLOWN college


94 posted on 05/21/2012 8:37:17 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: Sacajaweau
-- The TONE of Mr. Zimmerman’s "I shot him" statement is what I want to hear. --

Yeah. I don't have any reason to think he wanted the outcome. He took a beating for more than a minute. The "I shot him" utterance (or similar) that I was referring to is what he said to on-scene people, neighbors, etc. We won't get to hear the tone of those remarks. But, we may get to hear his tone, etc. while under police interrogation, as well as the walk through. It'll be up to O'Mara to make that public before trial, or at all, if it's to become public outside of the "trial" context. Scare quotes, because I consider the immunity hearing to be part of the trial process, but is technically pretrial.

95 posted on 05/21/2012 8:38:16 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

Apparently when Crump wrote the script for Dee Dee he didn’t have all of the police reports. In her interview she said the earphones fell off of TM and she heard the grass. Police reports say the earphones were INSIDE the hoodie pocket with the skittles, lighter and the pin/button TM was wearing when George described him to the non-emergency Operator.


96 posted on 05/21/2012 8:41:27 AM PDT by Jaded (Really? Seriously?)
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To: Eva

I smell an executive order coming...Even executive orders have to have limits...and I question the legality. A President can’t write off the constitution....that’s what a dictator does.


97 posted on 05/21/2012 8:41:37 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Cboldt

Apparently when Crump wrote the script for Dee Dee he didn’t have all of the police reports. In her interview she said the earphones fell off of TM and she heard the grass. Police reports say the earphones were INSIDE the hoodie pocket with the skittles, lighter and the pin/button TM was wearing when George described him to the non-emergency Operator.


98 posted on 05/21/2012 8:41:47 AM PDT by Jaded (Really? Seriously?)
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To: anglian

She saw Crump’s reinactment video where TM was shot in the back 15 feet from his door.


99 posted on 05/21/2012 8:44:40 AM PDT by Jaded (Really? Seriously?)
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To: anglian

““two men chasing each other”. “

HUH????


100 posted on 05/21/2012 8:53:03 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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