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Dragon arrives at space station in historic 1st
Yahoo news ^ | 25 May 2012 | MARCIA DUNN

Posted on 05/25/2012 8:45:26 AM PDT by mandaladon

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) — The privately bankrolled Dragon capsule arrived at the International Space Station for a historic docking Friday, captured by astronauts wielding a giant robot arm.

It succeeded in making the first commercial delivery into the cosmos.

U.S. astronaut Donald Pettit used the space station's 58-foot robot arm to snare the gleaming white Dragon after a few hours of extra checks and maneuvers. The two vessels came together while sailing above Australia.

"Looks like we've got us a dragon by the tail," Pettit announced from 250 miles up once he locked onto Dragon's docking mechanism.

"You've made a lot of folks happy down here over in Hawthorne and right here in Houston," radioed NASA's Mission Control. "Great job guys."

NASA controllers clapped as their counterparts at SpaceX's control center in Hawthorne, Calif. — including SpaceX's billionaire maestro, Elon Musk, of PayPal fame — lifted their arms in triumph and jumped out of their seats to exchange high fives.

This is the first time a private company has attempted to send a vessel to the space station, an achievement previously reserved for a small, elite group of government agencies. And it's the first U.S. craft to visit the station since the final shuttle flight last July.

The astronauts wasted no time getting the Dragon capsule into position for actual docking to the space station. The unmanned capsule is carrying 1,000 pounds of supplies on this unprecedented test flight.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News
KEYWORDS: dragon; iss; space; spacex
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To: dragnet2
“We will not issue docking permission unless the necessary level of reliability and safety is proven,” said Alexei Krasov, head of the human spaceflight department of Roscosmos. “So far we have no proof that those spacecraft duly comply with the accepted norms of spaceflight safety.”

You dont know the components! Components? American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!

101 posted on 05/26/2012 5:52:45 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: dragnet2
"This fall he’s hoping for another term for Obama, the best friend of private space, Musk says. “Obama seems to care about inspiring events in the country,” Musk says.

Musk has taken sides. 'Nuff said.

102 posted on 05/26/2012 6:47:28 AM PDT by kabar
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To: JRandomFreeper

The reality is that this country is broke. We must pay the Russians to get a ride to the space station. The new setup is just a fig leaf to cover up how poorly the space program has been managed. Lots of promises years down the line.


103 posted on 05/26/2012 6:50:57 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Lurkina.n.Learnin
These "pioneers" will be feeding at the public trough.

Real pioneers Armstrong and Cernan have been vocal critics of the push to commercialize space. The spaceflyers both testified before Congress to protest against government reliance on private space vehicles, saying that the commercialization of space could threaten America's dominance in space exploration.

Testifying before Congress, Armstrong went as far as to call the nation's current space efforts "embarrassing and unacceptable," according to The Register. Armstrong, who became the first person to set foot on the moon in 1969, went on to detail NASA's dismal future, going as far as to say that without the ability to lead manned missions to space, the U.S. risks losing its leadership position in exploration.

"Our choices are to lead, to try to keep up, or to get out of the way. A lead, however earnestly and expensively won, once lost, is nearly impossible to regain," Armstrong said in the testimony.

Armstrong wasn't the only one who testified in this manner either. Fellow astronaut Eugene Cernan also expressed his concern at the hearing according to The Register, simply saying, "Today we are on a path of decay."

104 posted on 05/26/2012 6:58:01 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Windflier
Written Testimony of Neil A. Armstrong Before the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology United States House of Representatives September 22, 2011

In order to get a comprehensive perspective on this issue, I asked a number of senior industry leaders for their observations on the matter. This narrative is a compilation of my thoughts and their responses.

The uncertainties associated with the radical changes in space plans and policies of the last two years contributed to a substantial erosion of the United States’ historically highly regarded space industrial base. Thousands of jobs have been lost, and the space component of the industry is perceived as unstable, discouraging students from considering preparing themselves for entry into this exciting but demanding career path.

The United States aerospace industry has long enjoyed the reputation of building the best and most advanced aircraft in the world. Consequently, it is the number one contributor to the nation’s balance of payments, providing over 50 billion dollars in positive trade balance last year.

Aerospace industry jobs, characteristically, require high skill and provide relatively high compensation. The Aircraft Industry Association reports Aerospace provides more than 600,000 skilled middle-class jobs and the industry supports more than 2 million middle class jobs and 30,000 suppliers from all 50 states. NASA and its supporting contractors employ hundreds of thousands of highly skilled engineers and technicians in 44 states.

A substantial current and long range threat is, and will be, the downward trend in engineering degrees granted in this country and the substantial increase in such graduates in other parts of the world. Equally disconcerting are the projections for reductions in individuals grounded in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, the so-called STEM disciplines. The number of such individuals in other countries is growing rapidly. They become the innovators and are largely responsible for the increasing quantity and quality of new aircraft and spacecraft emerging in foreign lands.

U.S. passengers on regional jets fly almost exclusively foreign aircraft. In 2008 and 2009, over half of U.S. patents were awarded to overseas companies. More than 60 countries are investing in space. China has sent Taikonauts into orbit and tells of their plans to fly to the moon. India is planning human space flight. Cargo to the International Space Station is flown on Russian, Japanese, or European craft. Americans currently have no access to space on American rockets or in American spacecraft.

The severe reductions in space activity such as the discontinuance of Space Shuttle operations, the cancellation of the Ares rockets, the end of the Minuteman refurbishment programs, the cancellation of the Altair spacecraft and the kinetic energy interceptor, and slowdowns in a variety of related projects have caused substantial erosion in many critical technology areas and are creating negative economies of scale cost increases for both liquid and solid rocket producers.

Most importantly, public policy must be guided by the recognition that we live in a technology driven world where progress is rapid and unstoppable. Our choices are to lead, to try to keep up, or to get out of the way. A lead, however earnestly and expensively won, once lost, is nearly impossible to regain.

105 posted on 05/26/2012 7:09:45 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
This scheduling of this is no accident. I watched the head of NASA today extolling Obama's plan to privatize space exploration.

"”In 2006, NASA awarded the company a Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) contract to design and demonstrate a launch system to resupply cargo to the International Space Station (ISS)""

You continue to evade the question, Mr. kabar.

Once again, who was President of the United States in 2006, Mr. kabar?

106 posted on 05/26/2012 9:57:17 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: kabar
Musk is a staunch Obama supporter.

What ya conveniently left out is and he also contributed to the Republican party and Tea Party people, such as Rubio, among others etc.

Private industry greases their own wheels and contributes when they feel the need.

Ya think this is something new Mr. kabar?

107 posted on 05/26/2012 9:59:02 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: kabar

The reality is that this country is broke. We must pay the Russians to get a ride to the space station.

4/2011 Russian Resistance to SpaceX Dragon Docking

“We will not issue docking permission unless the necessary level of reliability and safety is proven,” said Alexei Krasov, head of the human spaceflight department of Roscosmos. “So far we have no proof that those spacecraft duly comply with the accepted norms of spaceflight safety.”

http://news.discovery.com/space/russian-resistance-to-spacex-dragon-docking-110427.html

Of course, it was Russia who stood to gain by blocking SpaceX.

Safety? That's odd, as they seemed to have little regard for safety prior to this.

Looks like you and the Russian are unhappy people.

108 posted on 05/26/2012 10:04:39 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: kabar

This is really gunna piss you off!

Some happy people for a change Mr. kabar.

Hundreds of SpaceX Employees Cheering Outside Mission Control 1

Video: SpaceX employees standing outside mission control at SpaceX Headquarters in Hawthorne, California, watching the successful stage separation.

http://vimeo.com/42608966

This is what America is all about Mr. kabar.

And the fact is private industry contributes to both parties, just like Musk/SpaceX did.

Again, this is nothing new to those in business. It’s been going on for hundreds of years.

BTW, did ya notice SpaceX mission control? It’s as bare bones as you can get!


109 posted on 05/26/2012 10:14:28 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: kabar
Look here for a leader. NASA fiddle-farted around with ARES so badly, and wasted so much money that it was good for it to be shut down. Billions spent and not even a single flight article.

NASA needs to spec the results and get the hell out of the picture, and let competent people achieve them at lowest cost.

Your 1950s view of space is dead and gone.

Thank God.

/johnny

110 posted on 05/26/2012 10:15:49 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: dragnet2
On of the best interviews I ever saw was with a former NASA employee that Space-X hired.

He felt strongly about a technical issue, developed a plan, did the background work, and presented it at a meeting with Musk.

Musk agreed and nobody raised any technical objections, so Musk basically said "Ok, that's the way we'll do it".

Freaked out the former NASA employee. His plan wasn't going to get nibbled away by a dozen meetings with various engineering boards, and if it failed, it was his, and his alone.

That equipment is flying in space today.

That's the difference between the Shuttle years and today.

/johnny

111 posted on 05/26/2012 10:23:22 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Donald Pettit an American chemical engineer and a NASA astronaut.

“Like the smell of a brand-new car” were the words of International Space Station astronaut Don Pettit on Saturday after he carefully opened the hatch and entered the Dragon capsule for his first glimpse inside.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/26/world/spacex/index.html


112 posted on 05/26/2012 11:54:41 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: kabar

Thanks for posting Neil Armstrong’s congressional testimony. That’s a powerful, and very true statement.

It nearly makes me ill to see the liberal Democrats getting away with the wholesale destruction of our space program, and undermining America’s hard-earned lead in technological innovation. There’s no question that they’re doing this deliberately, and that their motivations spring from their bankrupt socio-political philosophy.

Only the most twisted, diseased mind, could possibly conclude that what they’re doing is for the greater good. Every single thing that is touched by them, becomes degraded or injured in some way. Any rational person can see this from a distance, but even when liberals are fully immersed in the effects of their disastrous policies, they remain utterly blind to the harm they’re causing.

I don’t see the current trend reversing, until such time as we have a pro-American government in power again.


113 posted on 05/26/2012 12:00:50 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: dragnet2
The difference between the old aerospace companies and the new couldn't be better illustrated than by that quote.

Space-X isn't working for cost plus, with NASA micro-managing. Now, NASA has finally set some specs and said, meet these specs, and we don't care how you do it. Space-X wants to make the customer happy.

Space-X builds more rocket engines than anyone in the US, now. And they haven't spent nearly the money that the Lockheed/GD/Northrop/Martin, etc... have in doing it.

We're actually moving forward again with the space program, and innovations, without chasing our tail the way NASA has done for the past 30 years.

/johnny

114 posted on 05/26/2012 12:09:22 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper
Freaked out the former NASA employee.

Great story, I read about it.

BTW, when I read government forms, I'm thinking, is this written by some former acid head turned government accountant/lawyer?

Even the simplest forms which should be 1 page, are 40 pages, convoluted, overly complicated and disjointed. I read government tax forms, and I want to put a match to them. I'm convinced, they just pull these scams out of their hats, and concoct their formulas out of thin air, all of which just happen to benefit government. Then you're forced to sign, under threat of extreme penalty and prison. lol...

115 posted on 05/26/2012 12:15:53 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2
Not to mention that if you are NASA, and turn down something, you don't get fired, but if you approve something that doesn't work, your career is dead ended.

Musk expects failures, since it's a part of learning and innovating and moving forward. He's more likely to punish someone that sits on dead-center and won't move because of fear.

Victory favors the bold, and NASA isn't well known for bold, these days.

/johnny

116 posted on 05/26/2012 12:28:54 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

It’s a shame too, as I was a huge NASA supporter during the 1960s, 70s and into the 80s.

I still support NASA and some of their endeavors, just not the punitive control, bureaucracy and politics involved.
______________________________________________________

SpaceX: Space Station crew likes what it sees in new transport vehicle

The craft made aerospace history Friday by becoming the first commercially built and operated spacecraft to rendezvous and dock with another spacecraft on orbit.

“I spent quite a bit of time poking around in here this morning looking at the engineering and the layout, and I’m very pleased,” observes Don Petitt, a space station flight engineer and the crew member who guided the station’s robotic arm as it grappled the craft for docking Friday morning.

Petitt likened the event to the Golden Spike that symbolized the final link joining eastbound and westbound segments of the first transcontinental railroad line. The spike was driven into that last wooden rail tie on May 10, 1869. “This is kind of the equivalent of the Golden Spike,”

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0526/SpaceX-Space-Station-crew-likes-what-it-sees-in-new-transport-vehicle


117 posted on 05/26/2012 12:43:46 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2
NASA certainly has a role in civil defense, national defense, and research for the general welfare (limited, per the founders).

What they don't have is a role in micro-managing how things get done, or trying to engineer spacecraft. The Shuttle was a committee designed nightmare that did nothing well, except explode at awkward times.

Functional specs, yes. Design, no. We've seen how that works. And it's ugly.

/johnny

118 posted on 05/26/2012 1:21:23 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

I’m sure you’re aware of this side note.

__________________________________________________________

SpaceX takes Star Trek’s ‘Scotty’ to the Final Frontier

SpaceX: The ashes of the actor James Doohan, who played Scotty on ‘Star Trek’ were launched to space on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0522/SpaceX-takes-Star-Trek-s-Scotty-to-the-Final-Frontier

Seem Scotty/Mr. Doohan, was a real life space fan.


119 posted on 05/26/2012 1:32:36 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2
Yep. They honor engineers, even fictional ones.

My kids asked if I wanted my ashes sent aloft. I explained that I'll take my urn spot at the local National Cemetary with my rank and citations on it, and I'll get my ashes scattered in all due time (6-8 billion years), and I won't mind the wait if I'm ashified.

/johnny

120 posted on 05/26/2012 1:51:40 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper
Your 1950s view of space is dead and gone.

Yeah right. Look what it got us--preeminence in space in virtually every area. The only country to land on the moon. A GPS system that allows us to use precision munitions. The most advanced communications system in the world. I could go on and on.

Our 1950s-60s space program put us at the top of the heap and now we are are in decay. We have to pay the Russians to put our people in space. And sheeple like you have Obamagasms because a quasi private company (NASA funded half of the project and provided extensive logistic support) puts 1,000 pounds into space and that is supposed to ensure our future. Pay attention to Neil Armstrong and Gene Cernan, not these crony capitalists trying to make a fast buck.

121 posted on 05/26/2012 3:48:36 PM PDT by kabar
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To: mandaladon
And this is only the first of many "private" missions to the ISS, to. Some time within the next few years, Orbital Sciences Corporation plans to launch their Cygnus cargo capsule to the ISS using the OSC-developed Antares rocket:

This rocket will be launched from NASA's Mid-Atlantic Regoinal Spaceport on Wallops Island, VA.

122 posted on 05/26/2012 3:48:52 PM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: kabar
All NASA has done since then is waste money.

And Musk did fund the company privately, and has been paid BASED ON PERFORMANCE.

I think that's a better way than cost plus contracts.

The spacecraft parked at the ISS (another waste of NASA money) could have carried about 14000 lbs, but not for this test.

Neil and Gene are great guys. But their way of doing things has moved from a government agency to free enterprise.

And I'm glad for that. We do need to be 1st in space, and government won't get us there. Ref the last 30 years of circle-jerk at NASA.

Get the government agency wannabe engineers out of the way and let someone that can, do what is required without a hundred meetings.

/johnny

123 posted on 05/26/2012 5:24:47 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper
Musk also founded the Tesla motor car company, which got a subsidy from the US government, in the form of a Department of Energy loan facility that it utilized to borrow about $250 million in 2011, at an interest rate of 3%. In June 2009 Tesla was approved to receive US$465 million in interest-bearing loans from the United States Department of Energy.

And you can get a federal tax break of $7,500 if you buy one. Not surprisingly, Musk favors a tax on carbon dioxide emissions. The Tesla Roadster has a base price of US $109,000. And the planned Model S sedan, is anticipated to begin production for the 2012 model year with a base price of US $57,400, which will also have a federal tax subsidy. This is just crony capitalism and I bet that Musk makes major contributions to the Dems and Obama. So much for the marketplace, which is being subdized by the taxpayer to help the wealthy buy high end electric cars.

The government is going to be the biggest customer regardless. Just like the defense industry, there will just be a few companies to provide these services and there will be cost overruns and cost plus contracts.

This is just a fig leaf disguising the fact that the US is in a state of decline. We are broke and there will be many painful decisions ahead. We will see the usual guns versus butter battles that mark declining powers. The welfare system is collapsing, but the left will do whatever is necessary to keep it going a little longer even if it means eviscerating defense and reducing expenditures on space exploration. You can continue to believe the fairy tale that the gutting of NASA was just a good management decision. People like Armstrong and Cernan know better.

So exactly when will Musk be putting Americans back into space?

124 posted on 05/26/2012 10:08:41 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
So exactly when will Musk be putting Americans back into space?

Before NASA does. He's got most of the certification checklist stuff completed.

/johnny

125 posted on 05/26/2012 10:20:30 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: kabar

Man, you really got a nut against SpaceX.

After reading your posts, I strongly recommend others review through the rest of the thread for the actual story.


126 posted on 05/26/2012 10:21:37 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: kabar
And seriously... You need a hug. Your world is collapsing around you and that's never happened before.

Musk can put stuff in orbit for 1/10th(insert current figure here) of what NASA and the Lockheed/GD/RestoftheBigGuys can.

/johnny

127 posted on 05/26/2012 10:46:00 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper; dragnet2
Get real. Musk has put 1,000 lbs in orbit. And this was after months of delays. We have had other private companies put stuff in space years ago. This is all Administration propaganda aided and abetted by the MSM. 60 Minutes did a puff piece on Musk a few weeks ago. Here is how this is being reported:

Success or failure of the new commercial space effort -- the cornerstone of President Barack Obama's vision for NASA -- does not hinge on a single mission but rather many missions over many years, Pettit stressed.

128 posted on 05/27/2012 6:54:23 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
False. NASA has never, until Space-X, set specs and let the company design whatever they wanted to meet those specs. NASA has screwed the pooch for 30 years, and are finally getting it together.

Rather than be angry and bitter that times have changed, perhaps you should rejoice that America is moving forward again on space.

As I said earlier. NASA wasted billions on ARES that will never fly, and Space-X will put Americans back into space again in a couple of years. It's hard to argue with success.

/johnny

129 posted on 05/27/2012 8:55:47 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: 3rdcoastislander

“So you would run away from religious oppression? That would not be very religious of you.”

Really? The Founders ‘weren’t religious”? I seem to recall that they “ran away from religious oppression” in Europe when they came to America.


130 posted on 05/27/2012 9:19:27 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty (Pray for America!!!)
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To: kabar

“The US no longer has a way to transport its people into space and must depend upon the Russians to do it. It will be a long time before we can ever be truly number 1 in manned space exploration.”

I guess you’re a big SpaceX fan then, since this same Dragon capsule is designed to carry up to seven people. It needs to finish the man-rating process, but is expected to carry passengers within 3-4 years. It is by far the best shot at have manned American spacecraft in the near term.


131 posted on 05/27/2012 9:24:24 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty (Pray for America!!!)
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To: kabar
"The reality is that these companies will be heavily subsidized by the government. It is just more crony capitalism."

Nope. SpaceX isn't the only company pursuing this, which means competition. Further, SpaceX has committed to lowering the cost of space travel and is providing the lowest per-ton cost to orbit. In other words, it is walking the walk.

I also personally think the SpaceX engineering approach is the best going right now.

If you take a look at the SpaceX flight manifest you'll see there are a lot of non-government customers. I expect with the shining success of this mission SpaceX will see a lot of new contracts with commercial entities.

132 posted on 05/27/2012 9:31:17 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty (Pray for America!!!)
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To: kabar
'Testifying before Congress, Armstrong went as far as to call the nation's current space efforts "embarrassing and unacceptable"'

What is "embarrassing and unacceptable" is NASA's "vision" of the next heavy-lift rocket system. Solid boosters have never been a good idea for non-military spacecraft.

I think the idea of NASA looking at the more bleeding-edge areas while commercial companies pursue well understood engineering is a good one. At least until NASA can be transformed into an innovative and efficient organization.

What is really needed is a vision for nuclear powered space travel, but that will have to wait for a sane administration.

133 posted on 05/27/2012 9:38:59 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty (Pray for America!!!)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Dream on. Obama’s vision is a disaster just like everything else he has touched. His buddies like Musk will profit and the country will be the big loser. So in the years ahead, the US will be paying the Russians to ferry our astronauts to the space station. If delivering 1,000 LBs to the space station is your idea of success, then you are delusional.


134 posted on 05/27/2012 9:43:55 AM PDT by kabar
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To: PreciousLiberty
It needs to finish the man-rating process, but is expected to carry passengers within 3-4 years.

Yeah right. In the meantime we have the reality of depending on someone else to fill the void. And who's to say that 3-4 years is realistic? It sounds like the same kind of crap the electric car people put out.

135 posted on 05/27/2012 9:47:03 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
"If delivering 1,000 LBs to the space station is your idea of success, then you are delusional."

Er, genius, this was a demonstration flight and an incredibly successful one at that. Even if the capsule were to burn up on re-entry, the most important milestones have been met, and there were many. There was no need to take a max load of cargo this time.

At any rate Falcon Heavy will be able to deliver 55,000 kg to orbit - more than twice as much as the Space Shuttle, Delta IV Heavy, Titan IV-B or the Russian Proton M. Happy now?

As I said before, SpaceX is walking the walk.

136 posted on 05/27/2012 9:51:49 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty (Pray for America!!!)
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To: kabar
"Yeah right. In the meantime we have the reality of depending on someone else to fill the void. And who's to say that 3-4 years is realistic? It sounds like the same kind of crap the electric car people put out."

NASA has no chance of doing anything sooner, and its latest design is a steaming pile of junk. SpaceX is the best shot we have, period.

By the way, as far as raw capability, Dragon could carry people next week. Caution and NASA bureaucracy are the only things holding it back.

137 posted on 05/27/2012 9:55:45 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty (Pray for America!!!)
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To: kabar
Musk has been at this since 2002. He's serious money and in it for the long haul.

You keep pointing out his failure with the electric car, but you minimize his successes with Space-X. He's building an infrastructure that NASA doesn't have, after the billions they have wasted.

Tell me again about ARES. And their flight tests... Wait.. they never did actually develop a flight test item, after spending billions.

Your bitterness and hate have deluded you. I've been watching Elon for a decade. He's made mis-steps. And he's pushing forward.

What has your vaunted 'government program' given us in the last decade? Urine samples from the ISS?

NASA sucks at space.

/johnny

138 posted on 05/27/2012 9:56:52 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: PreciousLiberty
You can put all the lipstick on this pig you want. And whatever jobs are created, many will be overseas.

The US is broke. We will be in no position to support a major space program. This privatization of the manned space program is just eyewash put out by Obama and his cronies. You are being sold a bill of goods that attempts to put a good face on a bad situation.

The same thing is happening with national security. We are reducing our military with the rationalization that we now have a new strategy. No more capability to fight two wars at the same time or one and 1/2 wars. Costs are forcing our strategic withdrawal and the reduction of our forces. It is part of the guns versus butter battle that has played out in other welfare states. The UK, the Soviets, and Western Europe have made the decision that butter is more important, at least politically.

Our space program is being scaled back and dismantled. We are told privatization will solve our problems. Nonsense.

139 posted on 05/27/2012 9:58:05 AM PDT by kabar
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To: mandaladon

So 1960s.

All they had to do is copy what NASA did and used in the 1960s.

What private industry did was nothing new.


140 posted on 05/27/2012 10:02:53 AM PDT by moviefan8
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To: PreciousLiberty
It needs to finish the man-rating process

I looked at the check list yesterday to see where they were on that score. WOWZA! They are further along than I ever expected they would be by now.

They don't have many more line items to test and pass before that is a done deal.

They have done it far cheaper and faster than any gooberment program could have.

To date, they have not killed a single person in the process.

/johnny

141 posted on 05/27/2012 10:03:20 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: PreciousLiberty
As I said before, SpaceX is walking the walk.

NASA is supplying at least half of the funding and its launch and tracking facilties supported the flight. This is supposed to be a public-private partnership. SpaceX did not do this on its own.

142 posted on 05/27/2012 10:09:57 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

“You can put all the lipstick on this pig you want. And whatever jobs are created, many will be overseas.”

Perhaps. Of course, given current policy (and the policies going back to the early 90s) many jobs are going overseas in almost every industry. So?

“The US is broke. We will be in no position to support a major space program.”

That depends on the strength of the economy going forward. If most of 0’s policies can be reversed, and capitalism takes off again, we could actually repay the national debt. However, that will take both political and (especially) public will.

“This privatization of the manned space program is just eyewash put out by Obama and his cronies. You are being sold a bill of goods that attempts to put a good face on a bad situation.”

You mean this contract that 0bama put in place in 2006? LOL

“The same thing is happening with national security. We are reducing our military with the rationalization that we now have a new strategy. No more capability to fight two wars at the same time or one and 1/2 wars. Costs are forcing our strategic withdrawal and the reduction of our forces. It is part of the guns versus butter battle that has played out in other welfare states. The UK, the Soviets, and Western Europe have made the decision that butter is more important, at least politically.”

Again, we’ll see after November. Don’t be such a defeatist.

On the other hand, you might want to take a look at how much we’re outspending the next several major powers put together on defense. Are we getting a good value for our tax dollars?

“Our space program is being scaled back and dismantled. We are told privatization will solve our problems. Nonsense. “

There are two different issues. One involves legitimate government interests in space, primarily scientific and military. The second involves the large-scale development and exploitation of space for our benefit. It makes a great deal of sense for commercial interests to take over this area at this point.

This is likely the beginning of a Golden Age of Space for the human race in general, and America in particular.


143 posted on 05/27/2012 10:10:42 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty (Pray for America!!!)
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To: kabar

“This is supposed to be a public-private partnership. SpaceX did not do this on its own.”

I presume you actually know the meaning of the word “partnership”?

However, I’d submit that whatever government dollars have been spent on SpaceX are getting a better ROI than those spent just about anywhere else.


144 posted on 05/27/2012 10:15:38 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty (Pray for America!!!)
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To: kabar; PreciousLiberty; JRandomFreeper
You keep making comments Mr. kabar, like involuntairy burps, then you totally evade responses like the one below.

I'm starting to really dislike your deceit and evasion on this thread.

This scheduling of this is no accident. I watched the head of NASA today extolling Obama's plan to privatize space exploration.

"”In 2006, NASA awarded the company a Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) contract to design and demonstrate a launch system to resupply cargo to the International Space Station (ISS)""

Once again, who was President of the United States in 2006, Mr. kabar?

145 posted on 05/27/2012 10:18:08 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: PreciousLiberty
Here's one guy who agrees with you and Obama. It is called being politically correct to praise The One for his great vision. We are living in a banana republic.

"Former astronaut Mark Kelly—perhaps best known as the husband of former congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords—reveals in an op-ed in the Orlando Sentinel that he initially was not a suporter of the Obama Administration’s change in direction for NASA. “I was not a fan at first of canceling the Constellation rocket program. I worried about what it would mean for NASA’s overall mission, and what it would do to the brilliant and patriotic men and women who work there,” he writes.

That assessment has changed, though, he says. “I’m impressed by how far SpaceX has come in the past 17 months,” he states, referring to the company’s Dragon test flight to the ISS this week. “The dramatic cost savings of commercial spaceflight — savings we need to reduce the deficit and grow our economy — let us expand the frontiers of space and stay at the forefront of technological innovation.”

He goes on to express support for various aspects of the administration’s efforts, from commercial crew to infrastructure upgrades at the Kennedy Space Center. “The president made a tough, bold decision — and I now believe he was right,” he concludes. Ironically, it was his wife who, in the debate on the NASA authorization act of 2010 on the House floor, spoke out against the bill that enshrined many elements of the administration’s plan into law."

The bottomline is that this decision is being driven by costs not what is best for this country. Let the rationalization begin.

146 posted on 05/27/2012 10:23:26 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar; PreciousLiberty; JRandomFreeper
Since ya want to make this all political I'll continue to ask you this and other questions you've evaded.

This scheduling of this is no accident. I watched the head of NASA today extolling Obama's plan to privatize space exploration.

"”In 2006, NASA awarded the company a Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) contract to design and demonstrate a launch system to resupply cargo to the International Space Station (ISS)""

Once again, who was President of the United States in 2006, Mr. kabar?

147 posted on 05/27/2012 10:33:23 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2; PreciousLiberty; JRandomFreeper
Read these sycophantic remarks made by Charles Bolden at the National Press Club last year Here are a few excerpts:

"Once again, we have the opportunity to raise the bar, to demonstrate what human beings can do if we are challenged and inspired to reach for something just out of our grasp but not out of our sights.

President Obama has given us a Mission with a capital "M" -- to focus again on the big picture of exploration and the crucial research and development that will be required for us to move beyond low Earth orbit. He's charged us with carrying out the inspiring missions that only NASA can do, which will take us farther than we've ever been –to orbit Mars and eventually land on it.

He's asked us to startplanning a mission to an asteroid, and right now our Dawn spacecraft is approaching one of the biggest in the solar system, Vesta, and we’re scheduled to drop into orbit around that asteroid the middle of this month. What it finds out could help inform such a mission. The President is asking us to harness that American spirit of innovation, the drive to solve problems and create capabilities that is so embedded in our story and has led us to the Moon, to great observatories, and to humans living and working in space, possibly indefinitely.

Fifty years ago, a young President gave NASA a grand challenge, one chosen not for its simplicity, but for its audacity, to "best measure and organize our collective energies and skills." In accomplishing that goal, NASA not only defined America, it made a lasting imprint on the economic, national security and geopolitical landscape of the time.

Today, we have another young President, Barack Obama, who has outlined an urgent national need to out-innovate, out-educate, and out-build our competitors and create new capabilities that will take us farther into the solar system and help us learn even more about our place in it.

President Obama not only honors the Kennedy space legacy, but also again challenges the nation with his vision for the NEXT ERA of exploration. And NASA is ready for this grand challenge."

If these statements are not barf worthy enough, Bolden couldn't praise Obama enought just after the Dragon launch and capture. It is all propaganda. It reminds me of when Obama trotted out the Volt as the answer to America's pollution problem and global warming.

148 posted on 05/27/2012 10:37:45 AM PDT by kabar
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To: moviefan8
What private industry did was nothing new.

Yes, it was new. It was the first time that NASA didn't design the vehicle and have a contractor build it. NASA set the specs on functions, and Space-X designed it, on their own, without NASA micro-management, to meet those specs.

And it was a fixed, firm price contract with progress payments, not cost plus.

/johnny

149 posted on 05/27/2012 10:40:34 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: mandaladon

So, what’s the profit angle on this? My understanding is that private money paid for the ‘mission’ - how does that investment result in a return?


150 posted on 05/27/2012 10:45:35 AM PDT by unique1
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