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In Reversal, Army Bans High-Performance Rifle Mags
Military.com ^ | May 25, 2012 | Matthew Cox

Posted on 05/26/2012 4:29:16 AM PDT by Timber Rattler

The Army has ordered that soldiers may use only government-issued magazines with their M4 carbines, a move that effectively bans one of the most dependable and widely used commercial-made magazines on today’s battlefield.

The past decade of war has spawned a wave of innovation in the commercial soldier weapons and equipment market. As a result, trigger-pullers in the Army, Marines and various service special operations communities now go to war armed with commercially designed kit that’s been tested under the most extreme combat conditions.

Near the top of such advancements is the PMAG polymer M4 magazine, introduced by Magpul Industries Corp. in 2007. Its rugged design has made it as one of the top performers in the small-arms accessory arena, according to combat veterans who credit the PMAG with drastically improving the reliability of the M4.

Despite the success of the PMAG, Army officials from the TACOM Life Cycle Management Command issued a “safety of use message” in April that placed it, and all other polymer magazines, on an unauthorized list.

This seems to be a complete policy reversal, since PMAGs are standard issue with the Army’s 75th Ranger Regiment and they have been routinely issued to infantry units before war-zone deployments.

(Excerpt) Read more at military.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: army; banglist; magazines; military; pmag; troops; usarmy
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To: jmax

It’s a Jewish thing. We never write the whole word on paper, just in case the paper is destroyed, and a profanity is thus committed. It’s become a habit, even in electronic writings.


51 posted on 05/26/2012 8:49:21 AM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: Gen.Blather; HenpeckedCon

Apparently some unit commanders thought otherwise. A guy I met once allowed me to hold a Civil War Henry rifle. I forget the unit name, I think a Massachuusets unit, and the commander bought his men the rifles with his own money.

So it would seem that going outside official procurement channels is nothing new.

The next Henry he allowed me to hold came with a caution not to drop or bang it, or mar it in any way. I thought this odd since it looked pretty beat up. He replied it was used at Little Big Horn, on the winning side.


52 posted on 05/26/2012 8:58:20 AM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: capt B

A lot of people don’t realize that Jimmy Carter had already graduated high school when Pearl Harbor was attacked.

He attended Georgia Southwestern College in Americus, Georgia. After a year there, Carter transferred to Georgia Institute of Technology he then got an appointment to the U.S. Naval Academy.

Carter missed all of WWII.


53 posted on 05/26/2012 9:00:02 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

Yep.

George H. W. Bush, about 6 months older than Carter, didn’t graduate high school until 1942, a year after Carter.


54 posted on 05/26/2012 9:30:09 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Timber Rattler

I’m with some of our other FReepers. Follow the money and see where it leads. Maybe some bigwig at MagPul donated to a conservative. Maybe one of the Dem Senators from Connecticut got a complaint from Okay Industries.

Could be a small number of knuckleheads privately purchased cheap brand X plastic mags and the problems got reported up the chain. Solution: No more non issue mags.

Could be just general military bureaucratic dumbassery.


55 posted on 05/26/2012 9:34:38 AM PDT by M1911A1
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To: central_va

The South didn’t have the industrial capacity to match the Union’s arms manufacturing and they certainly wouldn’t have been able to purchase arms from Colt or Winchester.


56 posted on 05/26/2012 9:47:35 AM PDT by HenpeckedCon (What pi$$es me off the most is that POS commie will get a State Funeral!)
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To: The KG9 Kid

A former soldier couldn’t agree with you more Kid. Semper Fi and God bless the Armed Forces of the United States.


57 posted on 05/26/2012 9:54:36 AM PDT by HenpeckedCon (What pi$$es me off the most is that POS commie will get a State Funeral!)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

Rules of engagement to “make it safer” is purely a product of brainwashing and whoever came up with that lawyer scheme and forces people to follow it at JAG should be branded traitors and facilitators of treachery.

Who cares about winning hearts and minds?
Are good or bad?
Are the hadjis terrified and in the know of their religion? Of course they are.

It’s a matter of DISENGAGING them from this religion with saving face, and not keeping them there stupid and stuck on stupid.


58 posted on 05/26/2012 9:56:10 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: Timber Rattler

Both U.S.Senators and my Congressman have been notified of my displeasure with this decision. I suggest each of you do the same.


59 posted on 05/26/2012 9:56:53 AM PDT by em2vn
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

... and we let ourselves be interrupted by consciences of objections while engaged... this is what it is all about. Either we fight wars or we do not. This selective terrorist crap is horsecrap. We have lost the language edge and we are becoming wussies.

We are becoming stuck on stupid like the enemy.


60 posted on 05/26/2012 9:58:03 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: Timber Rattler


61 posted on 05/26/2012 9:58:20 AM PDT by rawhide
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To: Timber Rattler

Why is there something I do not like about this “ban” language, “Zero tolerance” etc... sounds like another crazy stupid para-militaro liberal fascist monopolist attitude.


62 posted on 05/26/2012 10:01:28 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: Daveinyork

Or that slush fund like spending go to something useful instead of our coffers.


63 posted on 05/26/2012 11:23:46 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: cripplecreek; Gen.Blather
Sitting here on the edge of dotage I can't remember the mark or number that changed but the UK SMLE had a semi detachable magazine with a cut off allowing for single shot use well into the 20th century. The idea was that multiple rounds were a reserve for use only when authorized and in dire straits.

Also, IIRC (see above at "dotage"), US infantry in the Spanish American war were still carrying black powder trap doors. Cavalry, Rough Riders and Buffalo Soldiers, were armed with new, smokeless, 30-40 Krags at Kettle/San Juan hill.
Oh, and Gatling Guns.

64 posted on 05/26/2012 11:34:09 AM PDT by norton
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To: Timber Rattler
I was too young to pay attention to AARP when Hillarycare was being kicked around.

Now it's a different story.

I cut up their last mailing, packed it into the postage paid return envelop said sent it back to them.

I have not heard boo from them since.

65 posted on 05/26/2012 11:46:09 AM PDT by Gabrial (The nightmare will continue as long as the nightmare is in the White House)
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To: Gabrial

Sorry, posted on wrong thread.


66 posted on 05/26/2012 11:52:08 AM PDT by Gabrial (The nightmare will continue as long as the nightmare is in the White House)
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To: Sawdring

Magpul has given the M16 platform another 30 years of service life.

Oh wait...


67 posted on 05/26/2012 12:08:17 PM PDT by Dogbert41 ("...The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God" Zech. 12:5)
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To: VeniVidiVici

“Soldiers from B Troop, 3rd Squadron, 61st Cavalry Regiment, had been issued PMAGs before deploying to Afghanistan in 2009. On Oct. 3 of that year, they fought off a bold enemy attack on Combat Outpost Keating that lasted for more than six hours and left eight Americans dead. Some soldiers fired up to 40 PMAGs from their M4s without a single stoppage.”

Yeah, I can see these guys swapping those out for aluminium mags.


68 posted on 05/26/2012 12:23:08 PM PDT by Dogbert41 ("...The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God" Zech. 12:5)
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To: eXe

Matter of time before that practice i forbidden as well.


69 posted on 05/26/2012 12:35:59 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: The KG9 Kid
mags were never a problem with a 20" barrel, the problem in Nam was the dirty powder

from what i've read is, the problems really started with shortening the barrel... timing was effected and it cascaded from there to opening the gas port that led to extraction failures that led to stiffer extraction springs that led to broken extractors and locking lugs along with faster bolt speed that led to failure to feed because the bolt was outrunning the magazine spring that led to stiffer mag springs, that in turn, led to more failure to feed problems

70 posted on 05/26/2012 1:19:16 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Timber Rattler

ping


71 posted on 05/26/2012 1:51:29 PM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: Joe Brower

Will do! Thanks for the tip, Joe!


72 posted on 05/26/2012 2:46:56 PM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Timber Rattler
Never had much of an issue with military steel mags during my time in. I did try out the early thermoplastic mags and found that they tended to split along the spine in extreme cold weather.

This brings a couple thoughts to light:
1. Some occifer was looking for a bullet on his OER, or

2. Given current budget cuts, someone decided that the less expensive, but just as reliable issue mags were easier on the budget.

73 posted on 05/26/2012 3:15:13 PM PDT by Sarajevo (Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.)
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To: Sawdring

Issued these pmag 30 maglevels right now and they work in my personal bushmasters, colts, S&W, SIG variants of the AR and a Hk 416 I use on occasion :o)

http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG210/2

I also have the older Pmag 30’s without the “window” and they work well also . I shoot three gun as a hobby and use the same mags.

Some older plastic mags were crap as stated about the canooks issued mags back when ..... Whatever YOU buy, test, try and put a few back for 120 day plus rotation test for reliability.

Lots of gun gremlins can blame the magazines. Reliability recipe is key.

Stay safe !


74 posted on 05/26/2012 3:16:32 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Timber Rattler

Homophobic mags clearly cannot be forced on our new-age troopettes?


75 posted on 05/26/2012 3:34:34 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: Squantos
"I smell Surefire at play here as well. not sure as to the reliability of the new 60 & 100 round magazines they sell..."

"60 & 100?" Well, that's it. I'm a fire-and-maneuver dinosaur, with memories of using precious cover and avoiding any one position for more than a couple of seconds.

Oh, to be having all of that excitement and adventure with endless rounds and infinite rates of fire allowing for more wonderful junk food in my gut and plenty of rest during combat. ...preferred twenty-round mags instead of thirties, too, because they allowed for a lower profile when needed. ;-)

[Little irony and silliness there. I'll leave the excitement and adventure to younger folks of this magical age. I never once beeped with that fancy version of Army-issued laser tag equipment that we used and never ran out of blanks. In police and security work past, my silver tongue, handsome smile, forgiving nature and blessings from above kept me alive.]


76 posted on 05/26/2012 7:59:44 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: Timber Rattler

Another catfight over consumerism and debt/revenues. As for civilians, he/she who lacks ingenuity tries to make up for his inabilities with brand names, and enough government dollars will buy any brand name desired.


77 posted on 05/26/2012 8:15:35 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: Timber Rattler
Officiously, my unit uses regulation issue mags in our m4’s, unofficially, my unit still has our magpulls.

Screw the mussy in the WH!

78 posted on 05/26/2012 9:53:28 PM PDT by paratrooper82 (We are kicking Ass in Afghanistan, soon we will be home to kick some more Asses in Congress!)
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To: rarestia
I pray every day that we see another military man in the Oval Office...

I think we will, his name is Putin.

79 posted on 05/27/2012 12:44:33 AM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: Timber Rattler

A friend of my Brother was a Cop years ago. He carried a .38 Revolver which was the standard issue service pistol, but he had a .45 Colt in his Briefcase.

The Brass thought the .38 was sufficient for the job, but the guys doing the heavy lifting knew better. You don’t bring a Pea Shooter to a Gun fight.

Our Service Members have it all figured out while their Bosses are clueless. I guess nothing changes.


80 posted on 05/27/2012 1:03:32 AM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Confucius say, short note better than long memory....)
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To: Lazamataz
Every time an American soldier dies, the Muslim Kenyan Obama smiles and thanks Allah.

But we all remember the look on his face -- that scowling, sullen sulky-poo -- in that infamous photo from the Situation Room during the Osama Bin Laden raid.

Funny how those SEALs wound up real dead within two months.

Wonder if Barky did a "Uriah the Hittite" on them?

81 posted on 05/27/2012 2:35:59 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: hoosierham
The Union soldier was on a political mission,the Southern was defending his home.

That is exactly right.

The only people who "won" that war never saw a shot fired in anger ..... but chowed down heartily every damn day of the war, and probably a few times at Delmonico's in New York (assuming they were already open by then).

Except for the few that went out with Lincoln to the parapets to look at Juban Early's Confederates during his famous demonstration before Washington in 1864.

82 posted on 05/27/2012 2:46:16 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: LibLieSlayer

Jug Eared communist indeed!!! Good post, not that I know #### about polymer mags but now I do


83 posted on 05/27/2012 2:50:58 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: HenpeckedCon
The South didn’t have the industrial capacity to match the Union’s arms manufacturing and they certainly wouldn’t have been able to purchase arms from Colt or Winchester.

They must have purchased something like half a million Enfield muzzle-loaders ..... and a rather elaborate "gun" called the C.S.S. Shenandoah ... hard to explain why numbers of English repeaters didn't find their way into Confederate service.

Chowderheaded retro-blimps running procurement programs in Horse Guards Parade? No repeaters for Her Majesty's troops => no repeaters for General Polk either?

84 posted on 05/27/2012 2:53:59 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
Funny how those SEALs wound up real dead within two months.

My theory is due to all the strutting and bragging and publicity out of the Obama Administration, the mujahdeen tried extra hard to get intelligence on our Special Forces, Seals etc. Maybe they bribed and threatened the right high-up people. Or maybe well placed Pakistani gave them the intel to find and observe Seal operations then shoot down the helicopter at an opportune time

About 2 months after Osama Bin Laden was killed 30 Navy Seals died in that helicopter shoot down-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023123/Special-forces-helicopter-shot-Afghanistan-mission-rescue-fellow-Navy-SEALs.html

 

85 posted on 05/27/2012 3:05:02 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: FreedomPoster
Here are two MARSOC operators at FOB TODD in Northern Afghanistan.
86 posted on 05/27/2012 3:08:42 AM PDT by Recon Dad (Gas & Petroleum Junkie)
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To: Recon Dad

Great pic. Those guys don’t look like they would give a crap about a gear pronouncement made by a REMF in CONUS.

Check out post #78, more corroboration on this.


87 posted on 05/27/2012 4:38:04 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: dennisw
Thanks... they just want to even the field for camel humpers and their AK47 garden hoses.

LLS

88 posted on 05/27/2012 6:38:41 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: BwanaNdege

“As an experiment, try reading the following:

Lv th Lrd yr Gd wth ll yr hrt

If you were able to “figure out” that the above string of letters reads “Love the Lord your God with all your heart,” (Deut 6:5), then you might be able to see how a language could be entirely made up of consonants—with the reader supplying the missing vowels.””

OK - I can read and add in vowels as I read.

But, try as I have, I can’t find the second clause of the NtStl commandment. You know, the “Nr gt yr cngrsscrttr t stl fr u.”

It has to be there, but I can’t seem to see it.


89 posted on 05/27/2012 8:50:42 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: GladesGuru

You’ve got me stumped.

“NtStl”???

I think that “Nr gt yr cngrsscrttr t stl fr u.” Is “Never get your congresscritter to ??stl?? for you.”

stl = steal?


90 posted on 05/27/2012 9:02:08 AM PDT by BwanaNdege (Man has often lost his way, but modern man has lost his address - Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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To: BwanaNdege

Real close - “Nor Get Thy CongressCritter To Steal For You”.


91 posted on 05/27/2012 9:25:19 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: GladesGuru

A simple application of “Thous Shall Not Covet” would do wonders for balancing the budget!

Of course, it would put the Democrats out of business! and a lot of Republicans & Independents, too!

Temper it with, “Give, and it shall be given unto you”, “If a man does not work, don’t let him eat” and a number of other Biblical admonitions and this would be a nice country.

Again, John Adams nailed it, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”


92 posted on 05/27/2012 10:43:33 AM PDT by BwanaNdege (Man has often lost his way, but modern man has lost his address - Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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To: norton

The SMLE lost its magazine cutoff (along with a bunch of other outdated features like “volley sights”) in 1916. I think the model was the No. 1 Mk III*.

Back home in the States, 1903 Springfield rifles continued to sport a cutoff right to the end of production in 1944-45.


93 posted on 05/27/2012 9:22:38 PM PDT by M1903A1 ("We shed all that is good and virtuous for that which is shoddy and sleazy... and call it progress")
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To: The KG9 Kid

Real mature, there... As a retired Army grunt, I agree the beret worn by all is absurd. However, there are goof-balls in every service - I deeply admire the Marine Corps, but they have the same amount of politically correct career climbers as any other service. They have, thankfully, have kept their uniforms dignified and simple, though.


94 posted on 05/28/2012 2:36:56 AM PDT by Nathaniel (- A Man Without A Cross -)
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To: lentulusgracchus

“hard to explain why numbers of English repeaters didn’t find their way into Confederate service.

If I remember correctly, the English didn’t issue their own troops a repeater until the Lee-Metford Rifle in the 1880s. I think the answer to that question would be, they didn’t have any to sell.


95 posted on 05/28/2012 10:08:11 AM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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