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Extra Credit: Anti-teacher flier stirs tempest in Janesville
Wisconsin State journal ^

Posted on 05/28/2012 12:07:06 AM PDT by Impala64ssa

Janesville teachers and their supporters expressed outrage this week after an anonymous group distributed fliers listing their salaries and urging parents to request their child be assigned to a "non-radical teacher" next year.

The fliers, which included the names, titles and salaries of the 321 highest-paid Janesville teachers, also urged readers to go to iverifytherecall.com to determine if the teachers signed the petition to recall Gov. Scott Walker.

Orville Seymer, an open records specialist with the conservative Milwaukee-based activist organization Citizens for Responsible Government, said the group responsible for the flier has asked to remain anonymous "for obvious reasons."

On behalf of the anonymous group, Citizens for Responsible Government filed an open records request with the Janesville School District seeking teacher names, salaries and titles. Seymer provided the information to the anonymous group, but was not involved in drafting or distributing the fliers, he said. No other requests of a similar nature have been filed with other districts, Seymer added.

The flier angered teachers, who were already targeted by a flier earlier this year accusing them of having a "Marxist, globalist agenda," said Ted Lewis, regional union representative for Rock County teachers.

"It's trying to intimidate them and make them feel guilty for earning salaries," Lewis said. "They're creating this witch hunt for people who engaged in their civic duty."

Lewis said it was "ironic" that whoever distributed the fliers "very publicly posts the names of individuals and their salaries and yet he or she won't even divulge their identity."

Chris Kliesmet, executive administrator of Citizens for Responsible Government, said his organization isn't responsible for the content of the flier, but said it has raised the question about what's being taught in public schools.

"The question in the back of a lot of people's minds is, 'Are my children being indoctrinated?'" he said.

Lewis said feedback he's heard from the public indicates that people find the vilification of teachers "outrageous" and appreciate what public school teachers do.

"Everybody I've spoken to say teachers don't deserve this," Lewis said. "This is an attack against teachers, against public education."

The Janesville Gazette reported Tuesday that the flier was not distributed in newspapers, but instead was placed in newspaper boxes at private residences without the paper's permission. Janesville Police Deputy Chief Dan Davis said Tuesday distributing fliers in newspaper boxes is not against the law.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: education; milwaukee; scottwalker; tombarrett; wisconsin
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Oh, so that's what the recall is all about. The teachers' union are afraid of parents and tax payers demanding accountability and questioning the way they do things.
1 posted on 05/28/2012 12:07:20 AM PDT by Impala64ssa
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To: Impala64ssa
The teachers shouldn't have taken the kids on a field trip to protest against the governor.

yitbos

2 posted on 05/28/2012 12:52:47 AM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds." -- Ayn Rand)
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To: Impala64ssa

Isn’t this similar to what was done in California to those who voted against that gay bill? It’s not as exciting when it is used against the Left to expose their agenda.


3 posted on 05/28/2012 12:55:11 AM PDT by The Brush
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To: Impala64ssa

Considering government-run public education is a checklist item on the Communist Manifesto, I think this group is doing the right thing.


4 posted on 05/28/2012 1:04:48 AM PDT by wastedyears ("God? I didn't know he was signed onto the system.")
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To: Impala64ssa; Hunton Peck; Diana in Wisconsin; P from Sheb; Shady; DonkeyBonker; Wisconsinlady; ...

Wisconsin: Janesville teachers in a fury because FOIA reveals their salaries and flier makes info public.

FReep Mail me if you want on, or off, this Wisconsin interest ping list.


5 posted on 05/28/2012 1:26:46 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Impala64ssa

Someone like the left is trying to cause trouble for Walker. They probably did this themselves.


6 posted on 05/28/2012 1:45:32 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Impala64ssa

7 posted on 05/28/2012 1:50:33 AM PDT by Dallas59 (President Robert Gibbs 2009-2011)
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To: bruinbirdman

You’re wrong. They’d practiced chanting in class, but it isn’t the same. On the field trip they were able to do actual chanting.


8 posted on 05/28/2012 2:20:27 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: bruinbirdman

So the more militant of the teacher union types are getting a little taste of their own tactics turned against themselves.

Can’t think of a better example of karma giving the deserving a visit.

Paint them as sly greedy self-absorbed opportunists, and they have just about lost all their “moral” high ground, which is what they have been running on up to now.


9 posted on 05/28/2012 2:26:33 AM PDT by alloysteel (Fear and intimidation work. At least on the short term.)
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To: Impala64ssa

LOL!

That is seriously funny. Libtards are always good for a laugh.


10 posted on 05/28/2012 2:28:54 AM PDT by waterhill (I Shall Remain. FUBO. She got me tied down with battleship chains.....)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

PING


11 posted on 05/28/2012 3:16:22 AM PDT by gakrak ( A man should know his limitations and act accordingly.)
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To: Dallas59

OK, maybe the cost of living is a lot lower in WI, but I don’t see any outrageous salaries on the list.


12 posted on 05/28/2012 3:35:46 AM PDT by NY.SS-Bar9
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To: Impala64ssa
"It's trying to intimidate them and make them feel guilty for earning salaries," Lewis said. "They're creating this witch hunt for people who engaged in their civic duty."

Yeah! It's kinda like when roaches scatter as you turn on the lights in the kitchen.

In Georgia, everyone has access to state employee salaries as well as for school and University System Employees.

13 posted on 05/28/2012 3:38:10 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Impala64ssa
The fliers, which included the names, titles and salaries of the 321 highest-paid Janesville teachers, also urged readers to go to iverifytherecall.com to determine if the teachers signed the petition to recall Gov. Scott Walker

Excellent!

About time we fought them without one hand tied behind our backs.

14 posted on 05/28/2012 3:42:50 AM PDT by airborne (Paratroopers! Good to the last drop!)
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To: Impala64ssa

There are 321+ teachers in Janesville for a population of 62000? Must be good to be a teacher in Janesville.


15 posted on 05/28/2012 4:19:16 AM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: Dallas59

I’ll point this out...the folks in the $75k range...likely all have masters degrees. The way this typically works...the minute you achieve your masters degree...you end up with a $6k payraise. After that, as each year goes by and you get another two to three percent raise....your pay broadens out, reaching the $75k range. Are you really doing anything special with the degree? No. It’d be different if you were an instructor at a community college, but you are still teaching at the high school level.


16 posted on 05/28/2012 4:22:11 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Impala64ssa

My, my, my! What goes around, comes around, doesn’t it?


17 posted on 05/28/2012 4:39:29 AM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: Impala64ssa

Drip! Drip! Drip!


18 posted on 05/28/2012 4:42:57 AM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion mill.)
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To: The Brush

I would say not. Taxpayers have a right to a complete and full accounting of how every penny is spent from the public treasury.


19 posted on 05/28/2012 4:47:18 AM PDT by Tea Party Terrorist (they all stink)
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To: Impala64ssa

*SNAP* a bunch of those names are on that website. That’s gonna make for some uncomfortable moments I think


20 posted on 05/28/2012 5:03:01 AM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: alloysteel

Exactly. The little Marxist creeps have glass jaws, and are shocked when they are given a little of their own medicine in return.


21 posted on 05/28/2012 5:24:52 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Gaffer

Making people feel guilty for earning salaries. lol Isn’t that a common practice of the left in their class warfare tactics? Apparently they don’t like it so much when the same tactics are used against them.


22 posted on 05/28/2012 5:43:23 AM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: kalee

I don’t think liberals feel guilty because of the amount of their salaries; it is because they do virtually nothing for it. Either it’s that ‘nothing’ or it is ideologically bent. In both cases shining a light on it evokes the same action as when roaches scatter.


23 posted on 05/28/2012 5:56:42 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: pepsionice
NEA unions typically negotiate what is called a “step guide” to determine salaries based on years of service and the bonus for 1 and 2 masters degrees, which are handed out like candy at teachers colleges. But it gets worse.

Salary increases are negotiated as a lump sum of the total salaries paid. The union then distributes that across the step guide pushing most of the money into the higher steps. For example, a 5% increase doesn't mean all teachers get 5%. Those near the bottom get less, those near the top get more. The teachers use the artificially deflated lower salaries to pressure legislators to raise the minimum for starting teachers, if they can, or whine that teachers are underpaid.

Another fact I discovered analyzing one district was the average salary was bimodal, meaning there are basically two averages. Teachers with longevity milk the system for all it is worth, promising those lower on the scale their turn if they will only be patient. It's all a scam.

24 posted on 05/28/2012 5:58:49 AM PDT by trubolotta
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To: kalee
I don't think it's guilt the flier is trying to spread, just facts. Teachers are not destitute, $72,000 is a great salary! Imagine 2 teachers being married or living together.

But all we hear is crying about the newbies earning $30,000. Got to start somewhere.

25 posted on 05/28/2012 6:03:34 AM PDT by Awgie (truth is always stranger than fiction)
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To: NY.SS-Bar9

72,000 for 9 months of work seems outrageous to me.


26 posted on 05/28/2012 6:11:59 AM PDT by weston (As far as I'm concerned, it's Christ or nothing!)
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To: Impala64ssa

“Everybody I’ve spoken to say teachers don’t deserve this,”

I don’t see a problem with public servant’s salaries being publicized.


27 posted on 05/28/2012 6:23:00 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: weston

It seems like a lot to me also. Take off an extra month for holidays and spring break and it is closer to 8 months. The hours are good too. No travel, no midnight calls to come in.


28 posted on 05/28/2012 6:28:24 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: weston

Cherry-pick the high salaries and go ahead criticize.

A LOT of teachers don’t make near this amount - just call your local Catholic school teacher if you don’t believe me.

Anyhow, I challenge YOU to try and deal with a classroom, given all the legal, curricular, parental, etc. pressures, never mind the little imps themselves.


29 posted on 05/28/2012 6:32:48 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: Impala64ssa
"This is an attack against teachers, against public education."

Forty years overdue...close the schools, homeschool, stop the indoctrination, cripple the unions, slash property taxes...sounds like a plan.

30 posted on 05/28/2012 6:42:29 AM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: NY.SS-Bar9

A salary of $75,000 for 9 months is equivalent to a salary of $100,000 for 12 months.

Whether or not $100,000/year is outrageous or not is a matter of personal judgement, but I imagine somebody making $40,000 a year at Costco or something isn’t likely to have much sympathy for a person getting the equivalent of $100,000 a year who ends up complaining and whining about the indignity of being forced to make minimal contributions to their medical and pension plans.

I’m not sure if the flyer is a good idea or not, but one thing they should have done is include the 12-month equivalent value of those salaries, and perhaps the actual monetary equivalent of the pension and health care costs that those school employees find so onerous.


31 posted on 05/28/2012 6:44:52 AM PDT by Stosh
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To: Impala64ssa
"The question in the back of a lot of people's minds is, 'Are my children being indoctrinated?'" he said.

The answer is 'Yes'...

32 posted on 05/28/2012 6:45:06 AM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: P.O.E.

The table isn’t cherry picking. Shows quantities of teachers within a range. It does not support the myth that teachers are poorly paid. Everyone has pain-in-the-butt people to deal with in their jobs, with limitations on their actions.


33 posted on 05/28/2012 6:46:47 AM PDT by Chipper (You can't kill an Obamazombie by destroying the brain...they didn't have one to begin with.)
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To: Chipper

The unions have done this to themselves. They let the miscreants & radicals stay on, if not be encouraged. Now when times are tough, people are giving them a hard look, and red flags are going up all over the place.

What I was trying to get at (albeit poorly) was that there are tons of great people out there in the education system, and they’re getting short shrift. “The accident did not happen” never makes the headlines.


34 posted on 05/28/2012 6:54:50 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: Impala64ssa

Well done, Conservatives. The Truth will set you free. Expose the lies, shine the light in the dark places, and things will turn around. Very nice.


35 posted on 05/28/2012 6:59:43 AM PDT by bboop (Without justice, what else is the State but a great band of robbers? St. Augustine)
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To: NY.SS-Bar9

‘No outrageous salaries.’ These are salaries for 3/4 of a day for 3/4 of a year, don’t forget. Plus the benefits.


36 posted on 05/28/2012 7:02:01 AM PDT by bboop (Without justice, what else is the State but a great band of robbers? St. Augustine)
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To: P.O.E.

I think you’ve fallen into the trap that the teacher’s unions would like you to: that any attack on the current system is an attack on teachers (and you’re exactly right in that dealing with a class full of antsy adolescents is a thankless and often underpaid task).

The attack here is on the teachers unions - the folks at the top of that salary list are likely there not because they’re the best teachers, but because they’ve got the longest tenure, and because of salary scales negotiated by the unions that have nothing - zero - to do with performance. Teachers unions fight tooth and nail against any compensation packages based on performance.

The Catholic school teachers you cite aren’t unionized, and they’re almost certainly underpaid relative to their public school colleagues. Most often, they teach because they love it, and they put up with crappy salaries because they don’t want to put up with the crappy bureaucratic restriction of the government school systems - and (for many) because they see it as their vocation.

Somewhere there’s a happy medium, and whether or not it involves teachers union I don’t know. But teachers unions as they’re currently constructed are the problem. By their own admission (at the highest levels of the NEA) all they care about is sucking every bit of advantage they can for their members: students be damned.

If I was confident the teachers at the top of that list were the best teachers in Janesville, I’d say more power to them. What I expect is that there is no correlation between those salaries and actual teaching ability - and that things are likely to stay that way until the teachers unions are broken, or until they change the adversarial attitude they have to their employers (who are ultimately you and me).


37 posted on 05/28/2012 7:04:23 AM PDT by Stosh
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To: Impala64ssa
"It's trying to intimidate them and make them feel guilty for earning salaries," Lewis said. "They're creating this witch hunt for people who engaged in their civic duty."

Funny, the same exact thing could be said about the recalls themselves ...
38 posted on 05/28/2012 7:05:25 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: P.O.E.
The table shows ALL salary ranges. That's not cherry picking.

I don't know of any Catholic schools with a teachers union, the salaries are a matter of supply and demand, not union extortion and political shenanigans.

Before the unions and liberal cultural corruption, the classes I were in had 30-32 students, teachers who knew their subject, were devoted to teaching and earned the respect of their students. The 60s changed all that when radicals dropped into teachers colleges en masse for deferments.

39 posted on 05/28/2012 7:08:02 AM PDT by trubolotta
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To: Stosh
By their own admission (at the highest levels of the NEA) all they care about is sucking every bit of advantage they can for their members: students be damned.

I'd venture to say all they care about is hobnobbing and junkets and all the other appurtenences of govermental elitism. Not only the students, but their own membership can go to hell, as long as they deliver the votes. Typical liberal modus operandi.

40 posted on 05/28/2012 7:18:20 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: Awgie

The person I quoted from the article said it was to try to make the teachers feel guilt. I think it is hypocritical to say one can not question what teachers make when the teachers and others are doing the same thing to other groups of people (bankers, investment brokers)

As was shown in a district in OH, teachers are often individually earning way more than the people in the school district paying their salaries and when exposed taxpayers may question it.


41 posted on 05/28/2012 7:24:25 AM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: trubolotta

I found a picture of me in first grade. One teacher, about 30 students, we were having ice cream and cake in the class. All the kids were sitting politely, well-groomed, etc. In other words, we were raised properly at home before we ever set foot in a classroom.

I’m sure you’ve seen the devolution of how children are raised - and I don’t see an easy path back. Teachers spend an inordinate amount of time teaching students how to behave in public (whether conservative or liberal, the task remains).

I hate to sound conspiratorial, but I often wonder if that’s not the State’s agenda - leave the child-raising to the government, and it will mold them to its own purposes.


42 posted on 05/28/2012 7:26:09 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: pepsionice
Are you really doing anything special with the degree? No. It’d be different if you were an instructor at a community college, but you are still teaching at the high school level.

And most of these master's degrees are in education. I'd like it better if they mandated the salary increase be awarded ONLY to teachers who achieved a masters IN THE SUBJECT THEY TEACH.

43 posted on 05/28/2012 7:34:41 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: weston
72,000 for 9 months of work seems outrageous to me.

Does not include paid vacations,

Does not include the average of 20,000 to 40,000 in tax free benefits, putting many of them over 100,000 in earnings.

Yet they bitch and moan when "forced" to pay a few percent into their pensions, or their health care.

Lastly, here is CA they retire with full health care and a pension of approximately 4,000 a month.

It's good to be a govt milker.

44 posted on 05/28/2012 7:39:22 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: P.O.E.
A LOT of teachers don’t make near this amount - just call your local Catholic school teacher if you don’t believe me.

We are not talking about Catholic school teachers. We are talking about public school teachers. Teachers immunized by their union (for now) against being fired, no matter how lazy or stupid they are.

Anyhow, I challenge YOU to try and deal with a classroom, given all the legal, curricular, parental, etc. pressures, never mind the little imps themselves.

How many teachers would like to be challenged to deal with a downed power line in a sleet storm? Or searching a dark alley with a gun in her hand, looking for a murderer? Or putting up roofing in the hot August sun?

Stop whining.

45 posted on 05/28/2012 7:43:22 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: P.O.E.
I hate to sound conspiratorial, but I often wonder if that’s not the State’s agenda

I think it is a spiral. Get taxes and prices up so both parents have to work just to stay even, get the kids in the schools as caretakers to extort more form the parents with the ever looming threat of a strike or sick-out, and keep the cycle going. The liberal agenda, cultural pollution, and even women's lib (don't you work, or are you a useless housewife?) all work toward that end.

46 posted on 05/28/2012 7:45:21 AM PDT by trubolotta
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To: Impala64ssa

Now this is the way to deal with these people. Shine a really bright light on them and watch ‘em scatter like cockroaches.


47 posted on 05/28/2012 7:46:29 AM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: Stosh
A salary of $75,000 for 9 months is equivalent to a salary of $100,000 for 12 months.

Teachers also do other stuff during their summer time. A friend of my wife's does tutoring for extra pay during the summer.

48 posted on 05/28/2012 7:47:20 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: Impala64ssa

Outstanding! The left hates when their tactics are used against them. It is about time the people attacked back. The public school system is nothing but a leftist money and power hungry ripoff.


49 posted on 05/28/2012 7:49:23 AM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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To: PapaBear3625
.....deal with a downed power line in a sleet storm?...

Point is, nobody complains about the pay these jobs accrue.

With government & taxes out of control, people are looking for scapegoats. The federal & state Byzantiums are too large and disparate to attack. Local school taxes are close to home (all politics is local). I'd love to see an exposé and audit of the myriad bureaucracies that are strangling our economy, in addition to the focus on education.

50 posted on 05/28/2012 8:02:20 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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