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Coyote-human coexistence urged as animals migrate [to San Francisco's Golden Gate Park]
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | June 2, 2012 | Peter Fimrite

Posted on 06/02/2012 9:32:12 AM PDT by WilliamIII

The revelation, along with photographic proof, that at least three coyote puppies were recently born in Golden Gate Park raises some interesting questions about the future of the park - namely, how much time before roving packs of yipping wild predators drive humans and their decidedly un-wily pets out?

That, at least, is what the alarmists are asking, and the answer, according to the experts, is "never." The presence of coyotes in the city is good for the ecosystem, city officials and wildlife experts said, even if a few feral cats go missing.

"It is important that people recognize that coyotes are part of our ecosystem and that they have intrinsic value and ecological value," said Camilla Fox, the executive director of Project Coyote, a Larkspur nonprofit that consults with cities, ranchers and other groups on ways to live with coyotes without resorting to bullets, traps and poison.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; US: California
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To: Carry_Okie

I imagine in the regions of Turkey where the Anatolians are used the predator population has long ago been reduced through hunting and trapping. In such an environment a pack of Anatolians guarding the herd would work just fine.


51 posted on 06/02/2012 12:22:31 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: WilliamIII
Golden Gate park does not need coyotes. The homeless bums on the east end near Haight Street are more than enough.
52 posted on 06/02/2012 12:24:16 PM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (We are the 53%. 47% of Americans pay no taxes; end the free ride...)
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To: Aria

Portland, huh? Is it the coyote or local cuisine that makes tabby disappear?


53 posted on 06/02/2012 12:26:24 PM PDT by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: WilliamIII
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[Photobucket

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I assume this is a young coyote because his behavior seemed more 'naive and innocent' than that of a more wary, older one. Tried to make friends with my Blue Heeler, was not received well at all, retreats to think what to do next. The previous week I saw this one playing (through the fence) with the neighbor dogs.

There has been no trouble with coyotes that I know of in this well-populated area of 2-5 acre lots. Most travel solo but I have many pictures of groups of five or more traveling through my yard in winter; I wonder if the coyote generations living here somehow teach their young to tread lightly? I've seen a neighbor's chicken stolen once, but I hold fault more with the chicken owner not doing a better job of coyote-proofing his chicken coop. The unfenced part of my yard has a footpath worn through generations of coyotes passing through.

I'm not condoning the foolishness of allowing wild animals take over an area of human occupation like they are doing in Golden Gate Park; those here 'seem' to know they must not cross paths with those well-established creatures who walk on hind legs and carry fire sticks, because they sure do not linger here in this immediate area for long.

54 posted on 06/02/2012 12:44:19 PM PDT by pigsmith (Gun control means using both hands..)
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To: Jeff Chandler
I imagine in the regions of Turkey where the Anatolians are used the predator population has long ago been reduced through hunting and trapping.

The content of your imaginings relates to why Anatolian shepherds are still poor. The reasons are simple: Large dogs take a lot of food. The food is meat. Meat is what they are selling. Dogs aren't perfect. They take a lot of time to train. It's a big investment and some don't make it. Those are losses too. Meanwhile, the soil needs the blood, guts, and bones the dogs are eating. The soil makes the raw material for his sheep. It's a losing game.

55 posted on 06/02/2012 12:48:10 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo, Hillary! in 2012. It could happen.)
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To: Jeff Chandler
If that's an Anatolian you ain't kiddin' a couple of those will make short work of a pack of coyotes.

Another formidable breed is the Sharplaninec from Macedonia and the surrounding area.


56 posted on 06/02/2012 12:51:29 PM PDT by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: cripplecreek

I couldn’t help but notice that the “activist”, who is insisting that SF welcome and coexist with the predator coyotes, does not live in SF. She lives on the other side of the bay and the coyotes will have to take the golden gate bridge or the ferry boats to get into her back yard.

How convenient for her.


57 posted on 06/02/2012 12:52:02 PM PDT by Wordkraft (Remember who the Collaborators are.)
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To: Steamburg

Heyyyy......there’s nothing wrong with our food. Lots of salmon, berries, apples, vegetables....

YUM!


58 posted on 06/02/2012 12:52:22 PM PDT by Aria ( 2008 wasn't an election - it was a coup d'etat.)
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To: cripplecreek; WilliamIII

We have coyotes here, and they prey on small dogs and feral cats. The coyotes were here before we were, so I’m not going to throw rocks at them. They are seen by SOMEone on a daily basis.


59 posted on 06/02/2012 1:20:49 PM PDT by Monkey Face (Be yourself. Everyone else is taken!)
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To: Izzy Dunne

“Hell, it’s likely to be intermarrying before next year.”

Who do you think was the daddy to those three pups?


60 posted on 06/02/2012 1:22:19 PM PDT by Cyman
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To: Carry_Okie
The content of your imaginings relates to why Anatolian shepherds are still poor.

I always figured it was Islam.

61 posted on 06/02/2012 1:43:20 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: Monkey Face
The coyotes were here before we were, so I’m not going to throw rocks at them.

And they're so darned cute. It's all fun and games until the rabies...

62 posted on 06/02/2012 1:46:12 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: WilliamIII

I think you’ll find that San Franciscans will turn out to be proof that there are some people that coyotes refuse to eat.


63 posted on 06/02/2012 1:48:10 PM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: Carry_Okie

The reintroduction of wolves into the NorthWest wasn’t done because Ma and Pa missed seeing the wolves. They were reintroduced to drive the number of ungulates (deer, elk, moose) down so low that the Democrats could start screaming about stopping hunting. Democrats - they don’t mind guns as long as they get to decide who the guns are pointed at.


64 posted on 06/02/2012 1:50:12 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Darnright
Sharplaninec from Macedonia

It looks as if it shares some ancestors with the Anatolian.

65 posted on 06/02/2012 1:52:03 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: Jeff Chandler

You’re singing to the choir. I grew up in the High Desert, and one thing I learned was to NOT engage wild animals under any circumstances. I am NOT a fool. I can pick off a hare @ 100 yards.


66 posted on 06/02/2012 2:05:47 PM PDT by Monkey Face (Be yourself. Everyone else is taken!)
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To: cripplecreek

The Secret Service might visit you for that post.


67 posted on 06/02/2012 2:17:45 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: blueunicorn6
wolves. They were reintroduced to drive the number of ungulates (deer, elk, moose) down so low that the Democrats could start screaming about stopping hunting.

I was under the impression that they were reintroduced out of some wistful desire to restore the "balance' of nature.

68 posted on 06/02/2012 2:19:21 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: muir_redwoods

The eastern coyotes have NO dog in them.

They are coyote/Canadian wolf hybrids.

http://www.easterncoyoteresearch.com/

http://easterncoyoteresearch.com/downloads/GeneticsOfEasternCoywolfFinalInPrint.pdf

They are freaking -wolves-.

We had them until the DNR realized their folly and “unprotected” them after they slaughtered newborn livestock and ignored the deer population they were *brought here* to “control”.

You can shoot them to your heart’s content, now.


69 posted on 06/02/2012 2:47:20 PM PDT by Salamander
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To: Carry_Okie; quadrant
Carry is right.

This big Euro/ScH lines beast ain't skeered of nuthin' or nobody

*But* if our "coyotes", who are as big as GSDs and run in packs of a dozen or more get hold of him, his "courage" isn't gonna count for squat.

So 'mommy' watches over him with a 30.30 and a wicked aim.

70 posted on 06/02/2012 2:56:10 PM PDT by Salamander
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To: quadrant
He is spayed ?!?

Is this your first Dobermann, by chance?

71 posted on 06/02/2012 3:02:07 PM PDT by Salamander
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To: Carry_Okie

Couldn’t agree more Carry-Okie. Too many folks around here with too much faith in their particular breeds and not enough experience with coyotes. I live in the high desert, the extreme edge of town. I’ve seen dogs badly handled by just a couple of coyotes, and these are trained and aggressive cowdogs. I know families whose German Shepperds and other large breeds have just “disappeared”. It is not an uncommon sight around here to spy a flatbed loaded down with dead coyotes because the state still pays a bounty on them. We’ve got a pack of 8 that will occasionally run down the arroyo behind our arena at night, setting off every dog in the neighborhood. They’re looking for rabbits mostly but won’t pass up an unattended dog. Long before dawn, they are back up the mountainside....


72 posted on 06/02/2012 3:03:41 PM PDT by Crapgame (What should be taught in our schools? American Exceptionalism, not cultural Marxism...)
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To: blueunicorn6
The reintroduction of wolves into the NorthWest wasn’t done because Ma and Pa missed seeing the wolves.

Not only did they want to kill hunting, but the domestic cattle business as well. It's also about the Senate, in that if they can substitute urban bureaucrats for the people who work the land, they can take over these rural states with relatively little effort. So think of it as a feeding frenzy of interests, with the land and its people as the loser.

73 posted on 06/02/2012 3:08:56 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo, Hillary! in 2012. It could happen.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Run down; snap neck.

Fast.

Efficient.

Merciless.

Much easier to obtain than Anatolians, too.

74 posted on 06/02/2012 3:09:17 PM PDT by Salamander
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To: Carry_Okie

The hillbillies did a right fine job of running off our “coyotes” once it was legalized.

[and before it was, too...SSS]

:)


75 posted on 06/02/2012 3:13:20 PM PDT by Salamander
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To: cripplecreek; Excuse_Me

I always wanted to visit the Acme store. Dynamite by the case, parachutes, rocket powered roller skates, giant slingshots, giant canons. Phenomenal, speedy delivery.
Wonder if they have a catalog?
I can’t find them on the Internet.


76 posted on 06/02/2012 3:19:44 PM PDT by Eagles6 (S)
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To: Eagles6
I just wanna get me a bottle of liquid hole. What I do with it is my own damn business.

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77 posted on 06/02/2012 3:22:50 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Jeff Chandler; Stillwaters
PhotobucketP> Problem Solved

78 posted on 06/02/2012 3:30:39 PM PDT by lonevoice (Klepto Baracka Marxo, impeach we much.)
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To: EBH

Their -are- idiots who breed captive coyotes to dogs and sell them.

The odds of a wild coyote/dog mix are slim to none.

The most pressing argument against is the coyote’s appetite for dogs.

The biological argument is that males coyotes participate heavily in the rearing of their pups, an act which the female coyote depends upon and is totally absent in the nature of the domestic dog.

Tests done on alleged ‘wild coydogs’ have shown no domestic dog DNA.

There is some small chance that a domestically created coydog could escape and be mistaken for a true, wild bred mix...unless real coyotes eat it, first.

[coyotes do not observe “professional courtesy” as a rule]

The threat of rabies, however, is real and valid.


79 posted on 06/02/2012 3:31:39 PM PDT by Salamander
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To: Salamander
The hillbillies did a right fine job of running off our “coyotes” once it was legalized.

Strychnine baits were the most effective method at that time.

I'm not against having the beasts around as long as they stick to cleaning up carcasses, killing rabbits, and the like. For years, that's how things remained around here, primarily because there is plenty of carrying capacity in the land and the nearest creek is about 500m away. Lately, they've been getting a bit brazen for my taste. Unfortunately, I need a different weapon. The 30-06 is too big and the .22 too small. I'm thinking of a crossbow. What I resent is having to lug the .357 around just to take care of my dog while I'm out working the property. Gotta have the dog because of the mountain lions. So it goes.

The simple rule on predators is that I don't want too many of them and I do want them fearing to come anywhere near me or mine. Wolves are quite another matter; they don't know about limits.

80 posted on 06/02/2012 3:35:16 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo, Hillary! in 2012. It could happen.)
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To: cripplecreek

Exactly.


81 posted on 06/02/2012 3:37:37 PM PDT by Eagles6 (S)
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To: Carry_Okie

Strychnine bait is indiscriminate.

It kills *everything* and we don’t want that.

[the neighbors’ cats and dogs, scavenging buzzards, eagles and hawks, for example]

The good ol’ boys just waited at the bottom of the ridges until the packs came down to feed on the calves and lambs.

The DNR would hang you for shooting them no matter what they did until the farmers started losing *huge* numbers of livestock.

The ‘yotes would sit by a calving cow and literally eat the calf as it was being born.

That’s when “unofficial coyote season” opened.

My dad, for the only time in his whole life, went up the ridge to check his deer feeder and a pack of them came after him.

He had to walk backwards down a rocky, steep ridge, never losing eye contact, until he got to his truck and rifle.

As soon as they saw the rifle, they hauled ass.

*Very* smart, unafraid of humans and big; a dangerous combination.

Not long after dad’s ordeal, they legalized shooting them.

Once is a *great* while, I’ll see one flattened on the interstate.
[the first one I saw, I thought it was somebody GSD dead, that’s how big they are, here]

The ridges are silent, now.

Good.

My goats no longer cringe in fear every night under the dusk to dawn light.
They sleep peacefully in their barn.

My Winchester 30.30 lever action will knock them down because it’s been my preferred deer hunting rifle practically forever.

You know me well enough to know I love *all* animals and go out of my way to not harm them.

But the simple fact is, I love *my* animals more.


82 posted on 06/02/2012 3:50:34 PM PDT by Salamander
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To: lonevoice

.223? A good caliber for coyotes.


83 posted on 06/02/2012 3:53:52 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: Salamander
Strychnine bait is indiscriminate.

Yes, but that IS how it was done.

The DNR would hang you for shooting them no matter what they did until the farmers started losing *huge* numbers of livestock.

Check out the experience of cattle ranchers in Idaho and Montana. Their losses to wolves now stand at about 30% when weight loss, spontaneous abortions, and kills are added up. A recent study of killed wolves showed that 75% of their diet by weight was cattle.

It took that much for the DNR to permit a hunt, one that after its first year has been shown to be WAY inadequate for two reasons: first, they were sandbagging the numbers; there are at least twice as many wolves as by official counts (I'm not speculating; I citing people who know more about game counts than anybody on this forum could contemplate). Second, they set the hunt to less than half of that under-counted population and the hunters didn't even get that many. The procedures were bureaucratic as hell.

The ‘yotes would sit by a calving cow and literally eat the calf as it was being born.

Wolves will eat the unborn calf right out of an elk and leave the mother to die.

The ridges are silent, now. Good.

Yup.

My Winchester 30.30 lever action will knock them down because it’s been my preferred deer hunting rifle practically forever.

I have a neighbor who uses the same gun in .357. Keeps the ammo bill a bit lower. Around here, you never get a shot longer than 100 yards anyway. Too steep, too many trees.

You know me well enough to know I love *all* animals and go out of my way to not harm them.

But the simple fact is, I love *my* animals more.

As it should be.

Just think of how it lowers the cost of paint.

84 posted on 06/02/2012 4:10:49 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo, Hillary! in 2012. It could happen.)
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To: Carry_Okie

There once was a time that those pelts would’ve been worth a fortune in the fur trade.

[and we load our own ammo...cost isn’t really a factor]

:)

They finally gave us a black bear season in W.MD.

They had a limit of *30* bears and 200 hunters.
They figured it would go on for days until the 30 bear limit was reached.

The hunt didn’t even last 45 minutes.

If there’s many hundreds of thousands of nearly impassable acres and only 200 hunters, how many freaking bears are actually *here* that 30 of them get capped in less than an hour?


85 posted on 06/02/2012 4:59:58 PM PDT by Salamander
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To: Eagles6

“Wonder if they have a catalog?”

Certainly.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/081185115X/ref=sib_dp_pt/185-4843905-2042113#reader-link


86 posted on 06/02/2012 5:07:23 PM PDT by eartrumpet
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To: Carry_Okie; Jeff Chandler
Meanwhile, the soil needs the blood, guts, and bones the dogs are eating. The soil makes the raw material for his sheep. It's a losing game.

Are Anatolians a special breed of dog that doesn't poop?

87 posted on 06/02/2012 6:09:39 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: WilliamIII
Bawahahaha! Good Lord, we need to encourage them to accept this, along with all kinds of other wild predators, like bears & wolves.
Its just not fair to hunt them or shoot them.

In Fact, I think Jim should hold a FR fundraiser to send hundreds of wild animals to SF and loose them in the parks.
Who do those mangy humans think that they are anyway, intruding on the animal's space like that!

I'm serious. I may be crazy, but I'm dead serious!
Quid pro quo, sauce for the goose, and all that...

88 posted on 06/02/2012 6:15:09 PM PDT by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: Monkey Face
The coyotes were here before we were, so I’m no...

LOL - in fact ROTFL!

Bears were there before you also ...

89 posted on 06/02/2012 6:19:31 PM PDT by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: Salamander

>If there’s many hundreds of thousands of nearly impassable acres and only 200 hunters, how many freaking bears are actually *here* that 30 of them get capped in less than an hour?<

I don’t want to know. I was in town yesterday helping my daughter. My neighbor called, “Are you home? A bear just ran across our front yard toward your place.”. I called my husband, who was on his way into town. He turned around and high-tailed it back home. He never did see the bear, thank goodness.

We saw tracks in the snow up above our house a couple of years ago, but haven’t seen a bear in the 15 years we’ve been here.


90 posted on 06/02/2012 6:39:30 PM PDT by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: TigersEye
Are Anatolians a special breed of dog that doesn't poop?

Have you ever heard of the "biological pyramid"? There's a reason it's narrower at the top, each level at approximately 1/6 of the one below. Really, considering the amount of fertilizer you get out of the animal as opposed to the feces of the animal that eats it... well,

If you'd like, I can post photographic evidence of the difference between animal waste and blood meal on grass production, or I could tell you that the difference is astonishing. I just did a factorial experiment on exactly that comparison this year.

91 posted on 06/02/2012 6:54:38 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo, Hillary! in 2012. It could happen.)
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To: Salamander
There once was a time that those pelts would’ve been worth a fortune in the fur trade.

All it would take is a President who is worth his salary and it could be so again. Canine fur makes a very warm coat.

92 posted on 06/02/2012 7:05:10 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo, Hillary! in 2012. It could happen.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Most enrichment of the soil comes from decaying vegetable matter.


93 posted on 06/02/2012 7:06:28 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Salamander
If there’s many hundreds of thousands of nearly impassable acres and only 200 hunters, how many freaking bears are actually *here* that 30 of them get capped in less than an hour?

Enough to assure that the land is incapable of supporting the people in a crisis and a dangerous place to which to flee.

94 posted on 06/02/2012 7:07:30 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo, Hillary! in 2012. It could happen.)
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To: TigersEye
a special breed of dog that doesn't poop

and doesn't shed, and is trained to fetch beer from the fridge . . .

Just making my wish list.

95 posted on 06/02/2012 7:16:55 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: Jeff Chandler

LOL


96 posted on 06/02/2012 7:21:46 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye
Most enrichment of the soil comes from decaying vegetable matter.

Actually, decayed roots to be precise, and particularly perennial grasses. By comparison, detritus is overrated. The problem here is mineral depletion, not nitrogen. The blood meal has iron in a particularly available form in addition to the nitrogen.

When I applied blood meal to a patch of small-flowered needle grass (Stipa lepida) at the rate of 50#/1000sft, vegetative productivity of those grasses increased 600%. Adjacent to that spot, about 12' away, I applied animal waste. In this case, it was a particularly appropriate animal waste, used cat litter, exactly analogous to the product of said Anatolian shepherd dogs and in a higher concentration of nitrogen than the blood meal. Vegetative productivity in that latter spot only doubled, if that. Worse, forb production in the blood meal area was ten times that in the cat litter area. Ungulates eat more forbs than grasses, so this is particularly important in that regard.

Considering the loss of progressing that one step up the pyramid and that if I was grazing it I would also get the waste products of the herbivore, feeding predators with herbivores and then using the waste as fertilizer is terrible soil stewardship. Your dog poop analogy isn't as good as BS... or do I need to go into the differences in intestinal microflora?

97 posted on 06/02/2012 7:24:47 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo, Hillary! in 2012. It could happen.)
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To: Tupelo

They are all over my daughter’s neighborhood in a thickly settled western suburb of Boston.


98 posted on 06/02/2012 7:26:08 PM PDT by Mears (Alcohol. Tobacco. Firearms. What's not to like?)
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To: PowderMonkey

“Just what San Francisco needs. A thriving population of pariah dogs. Feral canids running loose in any city inevitably become a major problem, as these “experts” will soon experience for themselves. “

They would clean up San Francisco...


99 posted on 06/02/2012 7:31:48 PM PDT by ari-freedom
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To: Carry_Okie
Pound per pound animal matter is unquestionably richer than vegetable matter. But when you compare how many pounds per acre per year the land receives of animal matter to pounds per year of vegetable matter there isn't even much point in counting the animal matter.

BS would essentially be vegetable matter for that matter.

100 posted on 06/02/2012 7:46:09 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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