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To: Sherman Logan
"The whole drone attack business has always bothered me, as frankly has the whole use of high technology against primitive foes. There is something immoral about smiting an enemy who can’t hit back."

You're not wrong. Let me explain why.

Anything worth fighting for is worth fighting for in person.

Treating your enemies as vermin to be exterminated at the push of a button, even if objectively correct, is morally corrupting. True, we pushed a button and dropped nuclear weapons on the Japanese, but not to slaughter them. Just to break them, so we could force our correct worldview on them and take from them their desire to fight. Because in our hearts we knew we were right, they were wrong, and that the pain inflicted was for a purpose.

Dropping missiles on remote farmhouses ten years after being attacked isn't war. It's barely even revenge at this point. It's the actions of people without the moral courage to bring the fire to their enemies and bend their knee in person. Yes, I realize that most people reading this will say, 'That's not true!!" For you folks, maybe that is true. You may understand that the logic Sherman employed at Atlanta to break the enemy and shorten the war. Most Americans don't. That's why we use clean, antiseptic tactics like drones. Most Americans don't have the stomach to fight the way fighting has to be done, so we compromise, and turn into mouse-clicking assassins.

It's precisely the willingness to go all the way that broke the mighty Axis powers. Not just militarily but culturally. It's precisely the lack of will that lets shepherds and illiterates fight the greatest military on earth for a decade and remain the same people they were 10 years ago. The drones are just a symptom of our lack of will, a cheap cop-out for a nation that wants blood so long as its risk-free.

It's very easy to say, 'screw it, they're savages, push the button and don't worry about it'. But it's wrong. We should be willing to look them in the eye and say, 'Submit to our will or die." But we're not. We fight legalistically, from spreadsheet kill lists and cold databases, off the advice of legal counsel and sheltered analysts, and wonder where our feeling of moral righteousness has gone.

No one understands this lack of will more than our enemies, which is why they multiply each year, and spread from nation to nation. They buckle under our drone strikes then rise again in local government. And why? It's because militant Islam knows it has nothing to fear from a foe that won't look it in the eye.

16 posted on 06/03/2012 11:53:32 AM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: Steel Wolf; Sherman Logan
I agree that we need to fight in person. I agree that technology will and should never totally replace a human being on the ground.

We should be willing to look them in the eye and say, 'Submit to our will or die." But we're not. We fight legalistically, from spreadsheet kill lists and cold databases, off the advice of legal counsel and sheltered analysts, and wonder where our feeling of moral righteousness has gone.

I agree with you. Your statements should adjust our ROEs and will to fight; not the technology we use in the conduct of that fight.

We are conducting drone strikes in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan, and Somalia.

Failing to use technology and tactical advantage is suicidal and contemptable. Shall we invade ALL of these countries to kill just a few terrorists at a time?

What is immoral - turning an entire country/region into a full out war zone exponentially raising the possibility of shedding innocent blood in the cross fire, or targeted drone strikes against select individuals? - Might I also mention these are targeted drone strikes with the assistance and support of host nation governments responsible for protecting their people. Strikes that are conducted with the support of the host nation government cooperating to fight terror

(yes, as much as Pakistan sucks and stabs in the back one minute to the next, they still assist in this endeavor. A country that has never one a war is still sending soldiers into the Swat Valley to fight the Pakistani Taliban/AQ/terrorists; I've been to their amputee wards - they need these strikes too)

It is very easy to cry for blood and full military action until it is YOUR blood on the line. I have several bulged discs in my back, pinched sciatic nerves (my legs are numb), and a pinched spinal cord....at 30 years old, there are many days I can barely walk. I can't even get a full diagnosis of the extent of the damage without an MRI, which I can't get because of shrapnel in my chest. I have four combat tours. The last two I volunteered for....even after I had been wounded.

I made those decisions, I made those choices; I fault no one. Many of the guys I knew didn't make it home. More than half of my platoon was wounded in a single day.

What hurts the most is my kid brother is now on his second combat tour as an infantryman and I am no longer healthy enough to fight along side of him. It is shameful and STUPID to not use drone strikes when possible in lieu of flesh and blood. Your troops live to fight another day. The US does not control ground until there is a 19 year old with an M16 standing on top of that ground that says we do. A drone cannot do that for us.

But what a drone can do is attack targets that would otherwise be manpower and logistically intensive to attack......allowing our forces the freedom to attack and hold ground that is tactically more advantageous. A drone can also minimize collateral damage. The people in Yemen may grumble over some drones killing a few terrorists......involving US troops on the ground would most certainly rally more of the people to take up arms against us.

If the Canadians rolled accross the border to combat some perceived grievance.....even if they paved the streets in gold and put two chickens in every pot, I would take up arms against them for invading my country; just on that principle alone.

17 posted on 06/03/2012 12:23:30 PM PDT by Repeat Offender (While the wicked stand confounded, call me with Thy Saints surrounded)
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To: Steel Wolf

The drones are just a symptom of our lack of will, a cheap cop-out for a nation that wants blood so long as its risk-free.
______________________

I think I understand what you are saying. I have thought this about our CJ system that cannot kill the criminals who need killing. Instead, we place some of them in the general population and let them be killed by the criminals. No coursge to say “YOu did wrong and deserve to die and as a people we will execute you.”

Courage is sorely lacking in our leadership.

I do repeat though, I have no problem with assassination as a method of warfare. The Swiss did it with great effect.


20 posted on 06/03/2012 2:56:11 PM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: Steel Wolf
Most Americans don't have the stomach to fight the way fighting has to be done, so we compromise, and turn into mouse-clicking assassins.

Strikes me this has a good deal in common with those who like to eat meat but aren't willing to kill animals themselves.

I wonder to what extent the apparently growing hatred of America has to do with this element of asymmetrical warfare.

You know, I fully understand the POV of those who think we should always kill our enemies by the most efficient method, the one that is least dangerous to our own troops.

But I still can't help thinking there is something dehumanizing about a "warrior" who slaughters his enemies in Yemen while sitting in his bedroom in his pjs, with no risk at all to himself.

22 posted on 06/04/2012 6:18:19 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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