Posted on 06/04/2012 5:05:16 AM PDT by daniel1212
It’s exactly why they’re using him as their test case.
Libs do this all the time, conflate an issue with something everyone finds detestable in order to attack their real target, which is invariably the traditional family.
Take the “bullying” issue, for example. Everyone detests bullying in the form that we understand the word to mean. But the left has conflated “bullying” with “having negative views of homosexuality”.
I agree that as a case for religious freedom, this can work against it, but as regards the actual case, what many seem to ignore is that the ruling was not simply against using a spoon on infants, and which, even though it is wrong, no known lasting harm was done (while placating them with sweets all day would be considered fine), but extended against all such spoon spanking at higher ages, and against teaching such. I know of no distinction being made by the judge, and it appears, that like in other places, they are using a degree of abuse to relegate all such discipline as abuse.
As such the topic of the thread should be the broadness of this censure, or the ambiguity of the court.
There is zero benefit to the child from spanking, unless you call the angry relief of the parent beneficial. The rod is the Word of God. There’s nothing Christlike in spanking.
That said, this is absurd and clearly unConstitutional.
>>>So, in today’s society one can be imprisoned for saying the wrong thing. Welcome to Amerika.<<<
One could always be sent to jail for “saying the wrong thing” depending upon what that thing is.
If someone says, “Give me $1,000,000 or I will kill your children”, that person would go to jail for “saying the wrong thing”.
If I told you the ring I sold you was 18K gold with a 2 carat diamond, at is was actually electroplated with cubic zirconia, I could go to jail for “saying the wrong thing”.
That doesn’t necessarily mean that this pastor did anything illegal, but sending to someone to jail for “saying the wrong thing” is by no means a new or unusual thing.
Assuming, for argument’s sake, the beatings were indeed abusive, I think the question is was the pastor merely giving out some bad advice, (or perhaps parents took his reasonable advice too far) or was he activly soliciting the abuse of children through his words and actions. I don’t know enough about the details to determine this.
What is Christlike about spanking?
Spot on and the missing background to this story shows the headline to be misleading. This is child abuse pure and simple. These people are nuts, not Christians.
internal dialog/dillema... “should I actually answer this guy?”....”nope, he probably doesn’t have kids and/or is not a Christian, don’t bother”
You mean what is Christlike about spanking, period, as in completely disallowing corporeal discipline at all in your own house?
Using corporal punishment as the penatly for teaching corporal punishment. Irony.....
So was Charles Manson.
If a person plays a central part in organizing a crime but doesn't commit the crime themselves, they can often still be charged with conspiracy to commit the crime. And there are very good reasons for this. That's what happened to the pastor in this case.
the judge’s ruling extends beyond using wooden spoons (it also calls them dowels)
That's because the children and infants in this case were beaten with dowels:
"According to the sheriff's office, the dowels were described as being 12-18 inches long with a diameter about the size of a quarter. "
18 And the chief priests and the scribes heard it and were seeking a way to destroy him, for they feared him, because all the crowd was astonished at his teaching.
John 2:13-17 13 The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. 15 And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. 16 And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade.” 17 His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for your house will consume me.”
He went and made a whip of cords with which to drive the money changers out from the temple. Sounds pretty premeditated to me.
Was that Christlike?
What do you suppose the reaction today would be if someone walked into some church bazaar and drove people out with a whip and overturned their tables?
Aside from the fact that I don't doubt that he'd be arrested, would he not also draw a lot of criticism and condemnation for his actions, the chief of that being that he was being *unChristlike*?
How is a parent disciplining his children being uncristlike?
I don’t have the time to do the cross ref research for all the places that the Bible states that being disciplined is a sign of being a true son, not a servant.
These all extend from the Proverbs 13:24 and 23:13:
Those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children. Those who love their children care enough to discipline them.
Don’t fail to discipline your children. They won’t die if you spank them.
Yet, you bothered. I do have children and am a Christian. I don’t spank and would never. The only reason parents spank is because they can. It doesn’t work.
Yes, that’s correct. No corporal punishment at all, ever. It is unecessary and doesn’t work. If you did it to an adult it would be called battery. Discipline doesn’t require the physical infliction of pain.
Yeah, it works.
Fear of the repercussions kept me out of trouble.
(usually)
How is a parent disciplining his children being uncristlike?
Discipline is God's goal. The method of spanking is faulty and if you're conflating corporal punishment with discipline you're confusing the two. There cannot be any real discipline if it is imposed. It's like a school requiring students to "volunteer" in order to graduate. The coercion eliminates the volunteer part.
Parents spank out of ignorance, immediacy, or "conventional wisdom". Spanking doesn't work.
Notify the media - we’ve located someone wiser than Solomon!
On what biblical principal do you base your assertion on?
That it’s “unnecessary” and “doesn’t work”?
Or, are you depending on your own, or worse, the world’s “wisdom” on this matter?
And if children were mini-adults, that would mean something.
Solomon isn’t the wisest man ever. He certainly wasn’t wise enough to follow and obey God.
The issue of “spanking” or coporal punishment falls to the verse: Proverbs 13:24, “He that spareth the rod hateth his son; but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.” No good shepherd beats his sheep. Instead he cares for them, watches over them and loves them.
Here’s the original Hebrew: http://biblos.com/proverbs/13-24.htm
discipline: http://concordances.org/hebrew/4148.htm
diligence: http://concordances.org/hebrew/7836.htm
What makes more sense? That the rod is a weapon or God’s Word?
Context matters and the science of corporal punishment shows that it doesn’t work. God hasn’t assigned it to parents, poor Biblical understanding has created the myth among Christians that spanking works. It is consistent that God’s world would reflect the science and in this they are both in accord. Spanking doesn’t make for better children. Discipline and consequences do, that too is in keeping with Natural Law.
Children aren’t mini-adults. For this very reason they deserve even more understanding, kindness and compassion. Particularly from their parents for whom God has given them as a gift.
Spanking, hitting or any corporal punishment is ineffective as a tool for discipline. You can do it with love and patience.
Hitting children is convenient. Our children are totally dependent upon us for all their needs. We are bigger and stronger for some time. We have an enormous advantage over them.
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