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Navy marks Battle of Midway's 70th anniversary (It happened 70 years ago today)
AP/Boston Globe ^ | June 4, 2012 | Audrey McAvoy

Posted on 06/04/2012 5:35:05 AM PDT by Zakeet

Six months after the devastating attack on Pearl Harbor, Japan sent four aircraft carriers to the tiny Pacific atoll of Midway to draw out and destroy what remained of the U.S. Pacific Fleet.

But this time the U.S. knew about Japan's plans. U.S. cryptologists had cracked Japanese communications codes, giving Fleet Commander Adm. Chester Nimitz notice of where Japan would strike, the day and time of the attack, and what ships the enemy would bring to the fight.

The U.S. was badly outnumbered and its pilots less experienced than Japan's. Even so, it sank four Japanese aircraft carriers the first day of the three-day battle and put Japan on the defensive, greatly diminishing its ability to project air power as it had in the attack on Hawaii.

On Monday, current Pacific Fleet commander, Adm. Cecil Haney and other officials will fly 1,300 miles northwest from Oahu to Midway to market the 70th anniversary of the pivotal battle that changed the course of the Pacific war.

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Japan; News/Current Events; US: California; US: Hawaii
KEYWORDS: anniversary; california; hawaii; japan; midway; navy; worldwareleven; worldwarii
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Battle of Midway: A handful of U.S. sailors did the impossible and changed the course of a war.

1 posted on 06/04/2012 5:35:11 AM PDT by Zakeet
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To: SunkenCiv; Homer_J_Simpson

ping


2 posted on 06/04/2012 5:40:58 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Zakeet
.


Those immortal words ...

"Strawberry Nine, Strawberry Nine ..."

and

"Scratch One Flat Top" ...




Strength and Honor ... to the Enterprise, Hornet and Yorktown ...



.
3 posted on 06/04/2012 5:44:02 AM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will DEFEAT the Obama-Romney Socialist Gay-Marriage Axis of Evil)
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To: Zakeet
Pretty good flick too ...

4 posted on 06/04/2012 5:45:27 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Zakeet
Yes, my hat is off and my hand is over my heart.

“The U.S. was badly outnumbered and its pilots less experienced than Japan's”

Yes while this is true in the theater, at the actually point of attack the US Navy had the advantage, three carriers plus Midway's air field, including B-17 heavy bombers.

5 posted on 06/04/2012 5:48:57 AM PDT by 2001convSVT (Going Galt as fast as I can.)
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To: Zakeet

Love this thanks for posting.


6 posted on 06/04/2012 5:50:11 AM PDT by angcat (GO YANKS!)
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To: Zakeet
God reached down, during that time, and gave America a divine wind and win. Had that battle been lost, the outcome would have hobbled our Nation. The Japanese Navy had not lost a battle until Midway. Midway (though not the midway of the war) and this Nation's Heroes turned the tide to island hopping as Japan was beaten back. Control of the Pacific was relinquished to America during the battle. What was thought to be impossible was done in less than seventy two hours.
7 posted on 06/04/2012 5:55:27 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

How close a thing it was, and how those two extra carrier groups might have turned the tide against us.

Midway was the tipping point in the Pacific war.

The Japanese public wasn’t told the details of the defeat until 1955.

Thanks Zakeet for the topic, and Thank You to those who served, whether here or hereafter.


8 posted on 06/04/2012 5:59:28 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Patton@Bastogne
Yea but the movie “MIDWAY” is terrible....fyi the famed statement “scratch one flattop” is really from the battle of the Coral Sea
9 posted on 06/04/2012 6:04:05 AM PDT by tophat9000 (American is Barack Oaken)
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To: Zakeet
The U.S. was badly outnumbered and its pilots less experienced than Japan's.

Not really. It wasn't a "miracle" either. People need to read "Shattered Sword."

We won because we were better.

10 posted on 06/04/2012 6:04:42 AM PDT by Strategerist
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To: Zakeet

The men at Station HYPO under Joseph Rochefort are the ones who deserve the most credit. They broke JN-25. Thanks to them we knew the Japs were going to attack at Midway on 4 June with Kaga, Akagi, Hiryu and Soryu.


11 posted on 06/04/2012 6:09:53 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: Strategerist
You might also like "The Quiet Warrior", the biography of RADM Ray Spruance, who was in command at Midway.
12 posted on 06/04/2012 6:12:23 AM PDT by a6intruder (downtown with big bombs, 24/7, rain or shine, day or night)
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To: Strategerist
We won because we were better.

Yep. A good big guy beats a good little guy, every single time.

The Japanese were never really in the fight. The best that they could have hoped for (in fact, what Yamamoto was hoping for) was to hit the US hard enough so that we'd leave them alone. While this in no way should diminish what we accomplished in the Pacific, the fact remains that the Japanese picked a fight that they couldn't win.

Now Germany, on the other hand, was a much closer thing. A couple of slightly different choices (von Rundstedt keeps the panzers rolling at Dunkirk, instead of stopping for 48 hours, for instance) ....and the last 70 years would have been about the 3rd Reich.

13 posted on 06/04/2012 6:18:51 AM PDT by wbill
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http://www.navy.mil/midway/last_images/h73065.jpg
http://media-1.web.britannica.com/eb-media/80/71380-004-B4724C34.jpg
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g410000/g414423.jpg
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4076/4795787823_84b4e275a0_z.jpg
https://www.ww2incolor.com/buy/index.proxy.php?cmd=image&image_id=654
http://www.sunwestmonograms.com/wiseman/bmidwa5.jpg
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTEyWDY0MA==/$(KGrHqN,!hME9EJJpZSvBPc2(Ko-eg~~60_3.JPG
http://padresteve.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/akagi.jpg
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/navalwar/shippics/mogami.jpg
http://www.hilltoptimes.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/span-12-940x940max/imagefield_default_images/story-03-ht-midway-photo-33191.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-P-Strategy/img/USA-P-Strategy-46.jpg

http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/thumb/3/3f/USS_Hammann_sinking_1942-06-06_seen_from_USS_Yorktown.jpg/300px-USS_Hammann_sinking_1942-06-06_seen_from_USS_Yorktown.jpg

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/carriers/images/yktnsink.jpg
http://www.sunwestmonograms.com/wiseman/cva7_yorktown.jpg
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/i06000/i06000.jpg

http://www.kingsacademy.com/mhodges/03_The-World-since-1900/07_World-War-Two/pictures/WIK_Sinking-of-japanese-cruiser-Mikuma_6-june-1942.jpg

http://cdn.dipity.com/uploads/events/df9122c5a40ed8d96325d32d9a1e2386_1M.png


14 posted on 06/04/2012 6:20:39 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

“Midway was the tipping point in the Pacific war”

I don’t think so. Even if we lost all three carriers at Midway and the Japs lost none, the outcome would still be the same. By 31 December 1943 we would have 7 Essex CVs, 9 Independence CVLs and 20 Casablanca CVEs in commission. And another 7 Essex CVs and 30 Casablanca CVEs would be commissioned in 1944. The Japanese were doomed.


15 posted on 06/04/2012 6:26:01 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: 2001convSVT

Ok you strap on a Grumman Wildcat and go up against an A-6M Zeke. We will come to your funeral.


16 posted on 06/04/2012 6:30:13 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Zakeet
Captain Richard Fleming was the only man to win the Congressional Medal of Honor during this crucial battle.
17 posted on 06/04/2012 6:36:55 AM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: Zakeet

Thank you!
My career Navy father survived the sinking Yorktown.
After almost 92 good years the Navy returned him to the Pacific.


18 posted on 06/04/2012 6:42:18 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT (The best is the enemy of the good!)
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To: moonshot925

December 1943 was 18 months later, and while I’m sure the war would have ended by now, the ending would have been delayed by a year or more had we lost at Midway. The real Japanese land war was in China, and had been going on for years before Pearl Harbor. They’d driven out the British, and relied on the ocean itself (and those dug-in fight to the death Japanese soldiers on the needed islands) to keep the US from invading the home islands.

Had they prepared for a longer time, they would ultimately have still seen a couple of their cities get vaporized by nukes — assuming the US had the means to deliver them. Without the victory at Midway, that would have been impossible in 1945; a defeat at Midway would have had an impact on the outcome of the European war as well.

The Japanese fought the Pacific war as if it were a land war, which is weird because as an nation of islands they have a long maritime tradition. Sending those two carrier groups to the Aleutians as a diversion was just nutty, and they couldn’t make up the losses they suffered at Midway, probably as a consequence of the diversion.


19 posted on 06/04/2012 6:43:49 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Strategerist; Zakeet
We won because:

A: Admiral Yamamoto was overconfident and his battle plan was deeply flawed. He assumed-incorrectly-that US carrier strenth in the Pacific was down to two ships. Therefore he was unwilling to wait for two additional heavy carriers to become available. Even worse, he split up his forces leaving the four heavy carriers that he did choose to commit with almost no screening ships.

B: Carrier Admiral Nagumo was indecisive, unimaginitive and overcautious. His insistence on re-arming the attack planes with torpedos and AP bombs after sightning the American carriers had the effect of making his own carriers into floating bombs at the exact moment that they were attacked. Too bad, so sad for him.

C: But mainly we hit them first, and hit them hardest. We were able to do this thanks to the fact that we had broken their codes. And because of the miraculously fast repairs to the Yorktown we were not as outnumbered as Yamamoto thought.

20 posted on 06/04/2012 6:44:59 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: central_va
Don't forget the Devastator [ironic name] torpedo-bombers from the Hornet, Yorktown and Enterprise which were all-but-one shot down while attempting to attack the Japanese Fleet.

If my knowledge of written history is correct, Only one U.S. survivor lived to give a verbal report of how the Devestators got massacred.

http://www.aviation-history.com/douglas/tbd.html

21 posted on 06/04/2012 6:45:24 AM PDT by ExcursionGuy84
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To: central_va
Ok you strap on a Grumman Wildcat and go up against an A-6M Zeke. We will come to your funeral.

Another myth. The Wildcat ALWAYS had a positive kill ratio against the Zero throughout the ENTIRE war. Joe Foss had 26 kills in a Wildcat while he was on Guadalcanal, most of which were A6Ms.

Given equal pilot skill, If it's a one-on-one fight, I would take the Zero. If it is 4 vs. 4 or 12 vs. 12, I will take the Wildcats EVERY time.

Greatly superior firepower and durability plus good tactics beats maneuverability. Of course, the Zero had a massive range advantage, but in any head to head fight with multiples of aircraft the Wildcats will win.

The Zero is actually one of the more overrated aircraft of the war; partially because of the shock that the Japanese weren't a bunch of nearsighted losers and could fly, and that they could build a credible airplane, but also its racking up lots of kills against poorly trained British, Dutch, and Army Air Corps pilots early in the war, against P-39s trying to engage at high altitude, etc.

At the beginning of the war USN pilots were among the best trained in the world, themselves; the gap with the Japanese wasn't as big as a lot of people think.

22 posted on 06/04/2012 6:47:57 AM PDT by Strategerist
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To: moonshot925
The Japanese were doomed.

Churchill knew this from the moment the U.S. entered the war. The only thing bothering him was the fact that there were bound to be numerous setbacks while the U.S. mustered its full productive capacity.

23 posted on 06/04/2012 6:55:21 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: SunkenCiv
You guys are getting into the meta-strategic realm. IMHO, the Axis lost the war in June 1941 when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union. Any impediment to the Western Allies (such as a loss at Midway) would have the principal result of a larger Soviet Union after the war. A Soviet mega-empire extending from Korea to the Channel Coast is not inconcievable in the event that the Western Allies both failed to contain Japan and failed to open a "second front" in Europe. But I digress.

I think the immediate result of a US loss at Midway would have been the collapse of the defensive perimeter in the South Seas. The USA would have redirected resources from the nascent Solomons campaign to Hawaii laving Australia to hold the islands and New Guinea alone. The pivotal 18-month bloodletting at Guadalcanal would have been avoided and Yamamoto would have had a free hand to strike either toward Hawaii, Australia or French Polynesia. In any case, a new front would be opened and Yamamoto would have bought the time he needed. By the time that US carrer strength rebuilt the situation in the Pacific would have been very, very difficult, perhaps bad enogh to force the USA into negotiations. Which was the whole reason for the Midway operation in the first place.

24 posted on 06/04/2012 7:05:25 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: SunkenCiv

The United States only allocated only 15-20% of it’s resources to the war in the Pacific. If we had been defeated badly at Midway, we would allocate 35-40% of our resources to the Pacific. By the end of 1946 we were producing 3 atomic bombs a month. Japan could never win a long term war with the USA.

Yamamoto said it himself.

“In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success.”


25 posted on 06/04/2012 7:09:16 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: jboot

Hitler could have defeated the Soviet Union very easily, if he focused on taking Moscow....Stalin would have been finished, he was hanging by a thread as it was, the Bolsheviks may very well have been finished as well, and most likely the defense of Russia would have been taken over by non-Communists, like Vlasov, who most likely would have switched over to fighting the Germans, and perhaps gotten most of the former Red Army soldiers to fight for him.


26 posted on 06/04/2012 7:09:16 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: ExcursionGuy84

Those Devastators were another peice of the victory puzzle. They were slaughtered, yes. But they pulled the Jap CAP down below 10,000 feet and left the skies over the carriers clear for the dive bombers.


27 posted on 06/04/2012 7:10:02 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: central_va
I have two words "Thach weave". Wildcats adopting the "Thach Weave" more then held their own at Midway and shot down more then they lost.

The tactic was first tested in combat by Thach during the Battle of Midway, when his flight of four Wildcats was attacked by a squadron of Zeroes. Thach's wingman, Ensign R. A. M. Dibb, was attacked by a Japanese pilot and turned towards Thach, who dived under his wingman and fired at the incoming enemy aircraft's belly until its engine ignited.

Soon enough, the maneuver had become standard among US Navy pilots, and USAAF pilots also adopted it.

Marines flying Wildcats from Henderson Field on Guadalcanal also adopted the Thach Weave. The Japanese Zero pilots flying out of Rabaul were initially confounded by the tactic.

Sabur Sakai, the famous Japanese ace, relates their reaction to the Thach Weave when they encountered Guadalcanal Wildcats using it:[1]

For the first time Lt. Commander Tadashi Nakajima encountered what was to become a famous double-team maneuver on the part of the enemy. Two Wildcats jumped on the commander’s plane. He had no trouble in getting on the tail of an enemy fighter, but never had a chance to fire before the Grumman’s team-mate roared at him from the side. Nakajima was raging when he got back to Rabaul; he had been forced to dive and run for safety.

The maneuver was so effective that it was used by American pilots during the Vietnam War, and is still an applicable tactic today.

28 posted on 06/04/2012 7:15:19 AM PDT by 2001convSVT (Going Galt as fast as I can.)
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To: dfwgator
Hitler could have defeated the Soviet Union very easily, if he focused on taking Moscow.

You are technically correct. I would restate it thus: "Germany could have defeated the Soviet Union very easily, if they focused on taking Moscow." Hitler, being Hitler, was incapable of such a direct and uncomplicated strategy and resisted it for several months over the protests of his best generals. By starting the Barabrossa campaign late, and by repeatedly overruling his generals Hitler ensured that his "window" for success at Moscow was vanishingly small. So IMHO, he lost in June, 1941.

29 posted on 06/04/2012 7:17:10 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: dfwgator

The Soviet Army had really been smashed by Barbarossa. 75% of the tanks and 50% of the aircraft had been destroyed. I think Operation Typhoon started too late. By October the mud of rasputitsa had the German Army bogged down.


30 posted on 06/04/2012 7:19:43 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: moonshot925

31 posted on 06/04/2012 7:26:07 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: Strategerist; central_va
Fortunately for us, neither wars nor even battles turn on the quality of individual weapons systems. The Axis had many superlative weapons that in the end availed them not at all. The Soviets had the best tanks in the world in 1941 and yet lost the majority of them in a few weeks against a less numerous and technically inferior enemy.

On the other hand, the quality of fighting men is always pivotal.

32 posted on 06/04/2012 7:26:38 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: jboot

Hitler probably also thought that as unpopular as Stalin had to be with his soldiers, it was easier to convince them to surrender...but if suddenly Stalin were replaced by a more popular figure, then the Russians would be more determined to fight against the Germans. So Hitler actually preferred to keep Stalin in power, which in hindsight, was a big mistake.


33 posted on 06/04/2012 7:27:26 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: wbill
” ... the Japanese picked a fight that they couldn't win.
Now Germany, on the other hand, was a much closer thing”

The two are much the same. Just as Midway was the turning point of the war in the Pacific, the German defeat in the second battle of El Alamein was, as Churchill put it, was “ .. perhaps, the end of the beginning” of victory over the Axis powers. More famously, Churchill later wrote: “Before Alamein we never had a victory, after Alamein we never had a defeat.”

34 posted on 06/04/2012 7:30:00 AM PDT by riverdawg
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To: wbill
” ... the Japanese picked a fight that they couldn't win.
Now Germany, on the other hand, was a much closer thing”

The two are much the same. Just as Midway was the turning point of the war in the Pacific, the German defeat in the second battle of El Alamein was, as Churchill put it, was “ .. perhaps, the end of the beginning” of victory in Europe over Germany. More famously, Churchill later wrote: “Before Alamein we never had a victory, after Alamein we never had a defeat.”

35 posted on 06/04/2012 7:31:12 AM PDT by riverdawg
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To: jboot

The Germans had FM radios, trained crews and better tactics. That is why they destroyed so many Soviet tanks.


36 posted on 06/04/2012 7:35:35 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: moonshot925
Thanks to them we knew the Japs were going to attack at Midway on 4 June with Kaga, Akagi, Hiryu and Soryu.

The Japanese had every inking that we had broken their code during the war, but were too racist to believe that Caucasians could do this.

37 posted on 06/04/2012 7:38:52 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: dfwgator
Hitler did not understand Stalin, nor did he try. Stalin, on the other hand, had Hitler pegged and used the knowledge to his advantage, most notably at Stalingrad. 6th Army was destroyed by Hiler's pigheadedness, manipulated almost playfully by the Soviets.

IMHO the allies best general was none other than Adolf Hitler. This is not to diminish our sacrifices or our skill. But all of Hitler's defeats before 1943 were avoidable, and many of his victories were not exploited.

38 posted on 06/04/2012 7:41:30 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: jboot

Hitler was right up to the point where he defeated France.

Hitler owned Stalin on the Non-Aggression Pact. Stalin thought there would be a long war in the West, but France fell in six weeks, meaning Hitler could turn his attention towards Russia that much sooner....it was all there for the taking. It would have been very easy to plunge Russia itself into another Civil War and divide and conquer, just as in the First World War. Certainly amongst the generals there was no love lost for Stalin after the Purges, and I think most would have willingly defected, like Vlasov did.


39 posted on 06/04/2012 7:47:07 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: moonshot925
That is all true, with emphasis on the Germans having better tank crews and leadership. Had the Soviets had equivalent men in their tanks they would have smashed the Germans to bits.

It is always the soldier who is the decisive factor, not the equipment. Bad equipment can encumber a good army, that is true. But good equipment does nothing to improve a bad army.

40 posted on 06/04/2012 7:49:09 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: central_va

2 months later the USMC started being equipped with the F4U Corsair. It would rip through the A6m Zero’s like a buzzsaw. Also the P-38 would wreak havoc on them. In Helmet for my Pillow the marines knew the end was near for the Japanese when the P-38’s arrived at Henderson Field.


41 posted on 06/04/2012 7:55:36 AM PDT by BobinIL
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To: moonshot925
By 31 December 1943 we would have 7 Essex CVs, 9 Independence CVLs and 20 Casablanca CVEs in commission.

Ahh yes, the wonders you can do with a manufacturing base....

42 posted on 06/04/2012 8:01:42 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: dfwgator
Hitler had gone wobbly during the invasion of France by allowing the Luftwaffe to "destroy" the BEF at Dunkirk from the air rather than overrun them with the Heer. A small mistake, but costly. He followed this up with an even more costly bit of pandering to the Luftwaffe which we now know as the Battle of Britain. As a result, his air force was decimated and never really recovered.

Both of these decisions were based on political whim rather than sound strategy. Both resulted in avoidable debacles. Worse decisions followed. A shrewder man than Hitler could have easily destroyed the Soviets. But by 1941 Hitler was unable to construct an effective plan against them. He defeated himself.

43 posted on 06/04/2012 8:01:55 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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To: oh8eleven
As a nerd love the scene of Hal Holbrook “commanding” the code breakers doing his work in pajamas. Got to credit to Nimitz and the brass to leave the geeks alone and let them do the job that lead to victory. As VDH mention such idiosyncrasies would of not been tolerated by the Japanese.
44 posted on 06/04/2012 8:26:44 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: Zakeet

One of the three main turning points of WWII, all of which occurred (largely) in 1942, the other two being Stalingrad and El Alamein. I say largely because Stalingrad didn’t wrap up until early 1943.


45 posted on 06/04/2012 8:31:15 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Strategerist
Yes, Shattered Sword is an enlightening look into the Japanese naval operations for Midway and what really happened on their carriers that day. A little dry and technical at times, but it is fascinating. I especially liked one of the appendix chapters where the authors concluded that even if they were able to land troops at Midway the island was so heavily defended that they would never have succeeded.
46 posted on 06/04/2012 8:32:47 AM PDT by aegiscg47
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To: oh8eleven

Battle of Midway was the first movie I saw in a theater, and is still one of my favorites!


47 posted on 06/04/2012 8:53:54 AM PDT by Galatians513 (this space available for catchy tagline)
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To: SunkenCiv

“The Japanese fought the Pacific war as if it were a land war, which is weird because as an nation of islands they have a long maritime tradition. Sending those two carrier groups to the Aleutians as a diversion was just nutty, and they couldn’t make up the losses they suffered at Midway, probably as a consequence of the diversion.”

The Imperial Japanese Army and Navy considered each other enemies almost as strongly as they regarded the Allies. There was no concept of a “Joint Chiefs of Staff” in Japan; an Army general could holler orders all day at a Navy seaman to no avail. (General Yamashita was hanged in spite of this—for atrocities committed in Manila, primarily by Navy personnel—after the war.)

The Japanese Army had long planned for a land war against Russia on the plains of North China, Manchuria and Siberia, and their tactics and supply systems—dropped almost unchanged into the Southwest Pacific islands—reflected this. The Navy had long expected war against the US and Britain, and had spent years preparing for it (on a somewhat strict and unimaginative Mahanian basis of “decisive battle”), but had always gotten hind teat versus the Army when it came to funding and supplies.


48 posted on 06/04/2012 9:00:13 AM PDT by M1903A1 ("We shed all that is good and virtuous for that which is shoddy and sleazy... and call it progress")
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To: jboot

Of course, always having to pull Mussolini’s chestnuts out of the fire didn’t help matters for Hitler.


49 posted on 06/04/2012 9:43:17 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Heh. Hitler’s alliances-and his paternal, pigheaded insistence on honoring them even when the other parties had reneged-were just part of the toxic stew of hubris and stupidity that cost the Axis the war. The alliance with Italy was by far the most damaging of these. It simultaneously emboldened and humiliated Il Duce, who was not a man given to temperance, patience and careful planning.


50 posted on 06/04/2012 10:23:41 AM PDT by jboot (Emperor: "How will this end?" Kosh: "In fire.")
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