Posted on 06/13/2012 2:03:43 PM PDT by MindBender26
In Case You Don't Like Romney...
Columnist Andrew McCarthy gives us what probably is the most important question regarding the upcoming presidential election …
“If Romney wins the nomination, as seems very likely, I will enthusiastically support his candidacy. For my friends who may have hesitation on that score, I’d just ask you to keep four things in mind:
1.. Justice Scalia just turned 78
2.. Justice Kennedy will turn 78 later this year
3.. Justice Breyer will be 76 in August
4.. Justice Ginsburg turned 81 about a week ago and has had cancer twice.
Whoever we elect as president in November is almost certainly going to choose at least one and maybe more new members of the Supreme Court — in addition to hundreds of other life-tenured federal judges, all of whom will be making momentous decisions about our lives for decades to come.
If you don’t think it matters whether the guy making those calls is Mitt Romney or Barack Obama, I think you’re smokin’ something funky….”
So for anybody who is thinking of not voting because your favorite didn’t get nominated, or writing in a candidate who can't win ... just imagine this possibility:
'SUPREME COURT JUSTICE ERIC HOLDER'
Did that get your attention!
Should have pinged you to post #1144.
I is the time line of Romney’s promotion and abdications to homosexual marriage/civil unions (oh I have been told by our friend are lies).
Oh, well.
Have a good afternoon.
However, I have no intention to 'sucking up' to anybody over there. I speak my mind and if the Owner doesn't like it and kicks me off, it will be a very slight loss in my life but nothing like it would have been at one time.
By the way, I am using my screen name from over there, maybe it was a mistake but it's done now and at this point I don't really care what the insane asylum does about me.
Now contrast that to this:
One way you can be sure of being zotted is to show any support whatever for gays. I didn't want to be zotted so I said nothing on the gay threads.
Lying or delusional?
For a guy who is giddy with anticipation for Romney to be president you sure are angry about it?
I've also mentioned several times the unintended fall out from working against the party's nominee, you are likely to inadvertently depress votes for true conservatives down ticket.
We should all be concerned about what Romney will do, but one thing for certain, we have no need of concern about Bambi, he will flat out ruin our republic and everything we all hold dear. As to guessing what Romney will do, my best guess is he'll be a squish, doing some terribly stupid things and also likely doing some good things. There are some good things he will do right away, particularly in the realm of economics. He's courting Ryan and Walker and praising them, and that's a good thing. He believes in growth and the free market, and that's a good thing. For those alone we should be thrilled.
As to the rest, I doubt he'll go 180, that's not in the cards, but he won't actively support things like abortion or immigration or ruining the military, and that's a world of difference.
Like I say, you need to rethink this strategy of yours of running against the GOP nominee. I don't like him, but compared to Bambi, it's a no brainer, and all conservatives should understand that rather than having their own little pity party. We can't afford another four years, we just can't.
Those are points of concern for me, A-G, and they are worthy of serious biblical reflection. I intend to do just that, because the stakes are very high.
The issues as I see them are, and please correct me if you see the wording needing to be different:
- 1. A Christian must support the modern political state of Israel regardless of any act they might take due to God's "blessing versus cursing" promise in the Bible.
- 2. The sin of killing infants is greater than the sin of disloyalty to the modern state of Israel.
Your concern is valid, AG, so it is imperative we discover the biblical answer to such questions. I'm truly interested and this is not some political game on my part. I suggest we gather the biblical evidence book by book that speaks to each of these issues once we've worded them correctly. Please take a turn at helping me word them correctly, and/or add any additional issues you think should be included.
Once we've established the proper issues, we'll go book-by-book (or section by section, ie., pentateuch, histories, poetics, prophets, gospels, etc.) through the entire Bible. What do you think? Will this consume time you don't currently have to devote?
Let God be true and every man a liar. Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia.
So far as the facts on the ground, I think we agree on those. (1) Obama is worse for Israel than is Romney who is a personal friend of Bibi Netanyahu. (2) Both Israel and the US sacrifice children to abortion, as a result of their turning to modern gods such as humanism, statism, etc.
From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Israel
Clauses 312-321 of the 1977 penal code limit the circumstances when an abortion is legal in Israel. Abortions can only be performed in Israel by licenced gynecologists in recognized medical facilities that are specifically and publicly recognized as a provider of abortions.[1] Abortions must be approved by the termination committee.[edit] Circumstances under which abortion is legalThe termination committee approves abortions, under sub-section 316a,[1] in the following circumstances:
1.The woman is younger than seventeen (the legal marriage age in Israel) or older than forty.
2.The pregnancy was conceived under illegal circumstances (rape, statutory rape etc.), an incestuous relationship, or outside of marriage.
3.The fetus may have a physical or mental birth defect.
4.Continued pregnancy may put the woman's life in risk, or damage her physically or mentally.
In practice, most requests for abortion are granted, and leniency is shown especially under the clause for emotional or psychological damage to the pregnant woman. According to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics report from 2004, 19,500 legal abortions were performed in Israel in 2003, while 200 requests for abortion were denied. Most abortions were authorized because the woman was unmarried (42%), because of illegal circumstances (11%), health risks to the woman (about 20%), age of the woman (11%) and fetal birth defects (about 17%).[2]
No, for the following reason: The only power that Obama has is the power of deceit, of systematic lying. That is a gift that he could not possibly have received from God.
Certainly I do not believe that God has chosen Obama to be "a king over us." If Obama is there at all, then it seems to me it is only to serve as "pointman" of a great spiritual test of the American people.
So I hereby acknowledge that I'm not seeing this problem from the same point of view that you are. I'm going for "the big picture" here, which — as has already been eloquently suggested by Alamo-Girl and thouworm — essentially boils down to a great spiritual crisis confronting the American people, to my way of thinking, the greatest since the Civil War.
You and your party want to make Romney the problem here. Which, to me, is to entirely miss the point of the challenge before us.
The problem here is Obama. Some of your party claim that I "fear" Obama, which fear is making me so irrational that I am willing to compromise, even abandon, my conservative and Christian principles, to vote for a guy who's just as bad as Obama, and possibly worse. This is nonsense, all of it.
Ought one to "fear" the Antichrist? To fear him only gives him added strength. Better to look at him cooly and rationally, and "call him out" by naming him according to what he is: the "prince of lies," son of the Father of Lies, who out of sheer, unquenchable spite is the dedicated adversary and underminer of God and all His Works, especially including individual human beings.
Obama has deliberately taken a wrecking ball to the American way of Life — the economy, the Constitution, our historic institutions, national security, etc., while all the while selling us on the idea that he's diligently enhancing the public welfare. The result has been increasing uncertainty and disorder in our own country, which only feeds uncertainty and disorder elsewhere in the world.
He's a con-man, pure and simple; an antiChrist without doubt. As long as we believe his lies, he has "power over us."
I don't believe his lies; I want the lying thug removed from office before this country implodes. I cannot live in a world of lies.... No rational human being can for very long, without losing his sanity in the process.
You wrote,
Now [God] has given us a very difficult conundrum. Do we trust in God or do we trust in Romney?This looks like a false choice to me. The unstated premise is that God and Romney are mutually-exclusive. Which is something you cannot possibly know, unless you knew the Mind of God, what He knows, how He judges.
But no human can know these things. The Word, Power, and Eternity of God cannot be "reduced" to the capacity of the finite mortal mind. To do such a thing makes God, in the most ungodly way, the "image" of a man, and not the other way around....
You wrote that Romney "is not going to save the country. Only God will do that." Mainly I share your belief, but with the following qualification:
It is my belief that God works through souls that are ordered in Him, in His Logos, His holy Word — in short, the "saving remnant" to which you refer.
But if the saving remnant is just sitting around, waiting for God to come in and clean up this mess, then who will save the saving remnant? I believe that God expects us to be active in matters spiritual. If this next election is, as I have argued, a spiritual test of the American people, then we must recognize that this is a test we cannot opt out of. And we need to be very careful about our "evidence."
My complaint is that your party keeps trotting out "evidence" which is merely a collection of talking points that are endlessly recycled and repeated in the echo chamber of your favorite "internal narrative." If someone objects that a piece of your evidence is false (and can prove it, as has happened in certain cases), your side doesn't "correct the record," but just keeps on repeating the same tainted evidence.
Or so it seems to me, FWIW.
Anyhoot, it seems this dispute is going nowhere fast.
We need to be looking for the forest here, not just at the trees....
Thank you so much for writing, dear brother in Christ!
“trotting out evidence” “collection of talking points” “recycled echo chamber”
Wow, I (and others) have posted, time lines, links to articles, videos - Romney has a clear record of liberalism.
As far as I can recall I have had not one person show me why or how this information is incorrect, instead I have been called a liar, insane, delusional, BHO supporter, DU troll, mormon hater, Romney hater, irrational..among others.
I will not vote for the liberal called Romney - is that simple. I do not vote for liberals.
In the spirit of you words, betty, including that us mortals not knowing or comprehending the will of God in Heaven and all that He bases His will upon..perhaps the following can explain Rommney and some of his clear disconnects and what some are calling hypocracy, lies, and deciet regarding his past.
There is no doubt that as Governor and while running for Senate that he took positions I do not agree with...and cannot agree with. He was elected as Governor of MA, and if he had been a true, strong conservative, I do not believe that would have been possible.
He was not, but he was running as a GOP candidate, and there are areas where he did share our principles and values.
Anyhow, he was elected and in things strongly conservative, he was powerless because the stae of MA has set it up that way and because he had an absolute overwhelming super-majoority pitted against him in the MA House and Seante.
He did issue several hundred vetroes...most all of which were overturned by that House and Senate. Reading what he objected to is something a lot of people fail to do...but it something that does say something about the man and indicates that he is probably much less the “Libral/socialist/Godless” devil some make him out to be.
Those who know him in his personal life and his business life and how he worked with and cared for family, friends, and his workers make it clear that this is an innacruate perception of the man in that personal life...and his vetoes make it clear that at the very least he is not as bad as he is made out to be in his political life...despite his clear liberal tendancies back then.
But now, after years, and in his second run for the Presidency, he is stating, like he did four years ago, that he has changed.
His stances on the issues during the campaign at debates, in speeches, etc. certainly reflect this. His campaign site and his pages on the sisues there indicate the same.
Romeny on the ISsues - Values
http://www.mittromney.com/issues/values
In fact, his platform on that site, standing by itself, if it did not have his name on it, would not be bad at all. Not perfect...but immensley and orders of magnitude better than anything coming from Obama or any of the DNC or left.
So...is he lieing and trying to fool us? sucking us all in so he can turn 180 degrees from wht he is saying?
I personally do not think so. He is sitting down and talking long and hard with many GOP political figures...some of them very conservative people whom I respect...and to a person they are coming away now endorsing him, even those who ran against him in the primaries.
Why?
Are the hoodwinked? No, I do not think so. Are they pragmatic and recognize that we must get rid of Obama? Certainly.
Crtical Endorsements for Romney
http://www.jeffhead.com/EndorseRomney.htm
But what of Romney? Where does he really stand?
What if Romney, after all the experiences he has had in business, running for the US Senate, governing in MA and now running for President twice has actually had the conservative message resonate? Is this possible? Of course it is...it has happened with many others and who were not even republican at the time.
What if he is really changing and moving to the conservative side? His positions reflect this...though many, including myself, are very wary because of his past and because now it is certainly politically expediant for him to do so.
But if he is changing, and I believe it very possible, precisely because the things he is proposing will actually work, and if he has a majortiy in the house and the senate they will work well...he will continue them. And if he does so, I expect there is going to be a dramatic and phenominal turn around. A turn around which will only solidify this change and his intention to continue with those policies...perhaps for two full terms...and perhaps leading to tow or more after him with even more conservative leaders.
So, should we really being calling a man who is at least acting like he is changing, and who has said he has changed...particulalry when the possibility of that change is so critical to our national interest and potential survival as a Conbstitutional Republic...is the answer to really call him Godless, Satanic, a socialist, a liar, a demegogue, etc. ..all of those vile things and try and convince others that he is so?
I do not think so. In fact such a course is absolutley and atrcoiously self-defeating in my estimation. It would invariably ensure, if enough believed it and stayed home or did not vote, the 2nd term of the man absolutely and verifaibly bent on fundamentally changing and destroying the Reublic by his own actions and words.
Obama - the Man who despises America
http://www.jeffhead.com/obama-time.htm
As a result, I am compelled to do absolutely nothing, either by my action or inaction, to allow Obama a second term. So I will be supporting Romney, despite his past...and will do so vigorously now in the hopes of removing Obama and witnessing and experiencing the great turn around I spoke of and I believe is possible....and with which a whole lot of very prominent and well known conservative patriots will be numbered in who I join with in that effort.
America at the Crossroads of History
http://www.jeffhead.com/crossroads.htm
Neither betty, myself, or any of the others care for Romney, it's very simple, we can't have this man child in office for another four years, he'll go full blown Hugo Chavez on us, and those like you will be responsible if you get your way.
Your vote is a vote for a radical who will destroy everything you love.
Thanks for the ping.
See my post 1,168
You left out "internal narrative." It is only on that basis that Romney can be called a "liberal." This supposition has been convincingly refuted (to my mind) by MindBender26 and Agamemnon — evidently two highly experienced "public men."
The term "public man" invokes the ancient philosopher Heraclitus. By this term, he referred to mature experienced men active in the service of their society who, above all, understand that the Logos "is one and common" to all men, whether they are consciously aware of this fact or not. Those who are unaware he referred to as "private men," men "asleep" and "dreaming"....
Well, just a bit of trivia here....
I would call such men "political realists." Not ideologues (i.e., "dreamers.")
My thanks go out to MindBender26 and Agamemnon for their outstandingly informative and responsive essay/posts on this issue.
Why thank you. It never occurred to me how much power I possess.
At least you are using a new and longer set of words to describe me and my unwillingness to vote for liberals.
Nice, not nearly as boring as being called just a liar.
Actually Romney is the presumptive nominee because so called conservatives have been capitulating to liberal Republicans for a long time in the hope some conservative would rise to the top of the heap. All that happened with those votes is solidify in the mind of the GOPe, that they could run liberals, each more liberal than the last,p>I am no longer playing their game. I will not vote for a liberal.
Ok, if you beleive stating endorsements and personal opinion is evidence but links to actual documents, videos, news stories and Romney’s own words is not evidence, there is nothing more I can say.
Good day.
My husband and I - and just about everybody we know across various states - will crawl over broken glass to vote "ABO 2012" as well. The choice is obvious. Obozo absolutely cannot get another four years in which he will completely destroy this country we love.
God bless you... I hope you are feeling well.
No the tools that he uses to wield whatever "power" he has over this nation are deceit and lying. The power that he has to "rule over us" would not be his unless God had ordained him to be in that position. The question which Christians must ask themselves is "Why would God appoint such a lying deceitful egomaniac to be appointed as President"?
If God had not ordained him to be where he is, he would not be there. Obama has not chosen himself to be a leader, but a ruler. God has stated quite clearly that the heart of the ruler is in the hand of God and he changes it at his will. Just as he hardened the heart of Pharaoh, he hardens and softens the hearts of all rulers to accomplish HIS will.
America is at an interesting crossroad. We have been slouching towards this crossroad to Gomorrah for decades and here we are. We have been cursed with 4 years of being ruled over by an Abortion promoting, homosexual agenda promoting, homosexual marriage and adoption advocating President and now we are being given a choice between a President who has been Abortion promoting, homosexual agenda promoting, homosexual marriage and adoption advocating President and a candidate who has time and again proven himself to be an Abortion promoting, homosexual agenda promoting, homosexual marriage and adoption advocating Candidate (either for Governor, Senator and now president.
I have little doubt but that Governor Romney has been appointed to be our next president. There are a few in my camp who think that Obama can beat him. I'm not in that camp, in fact I believe that the American People, being the fickle self-centered electorate that they are, are going to put the same faith in Romney that they put in Obama and that Romney will probably win this election in a landslide.
But does that mean that American will be turning away from the path towards Gomorrah? I don't think so. Romney is as embedded in that camp as anyone and Romney's principle road to power has been the same as Obama, i.e. he has used the same "Tools" of "deceit, of systematic lying" that Obama used to get to his current position of power.
I'm going for "the big picture" here, which — as has already been eloquently suggested by Alamo-Girl and thouworm — essentially boils down to a great spiritual crisis confronting the American people, to my way of thinking, the greatest since the Civil War.
If it is a spiritual crisis that we are in, then obviously the solution to that crisis is not to vote for a lying deceitful pro-abortionist, pro-gay marriage, pro homosexual agenda, pro-gay adoption social corporatist who believes that God is just one of a gazillion Gods who get together every once in a while on the planet Kolob and vote to exalt a new breed of Gods, one of whom will be Mitt Romney at some point in the not too distant future.
If we are at a point of a political crisis only, then the "logical" choice is to vote for Romney and to continue on the spiritual down slide that brought us Obama in the first place. If it is a "spiritual crisis" that we are in, then I suspect that the next 4 years is not going to change at all if either Romney or Obama is elected. If God gave us Obama because we as a nation put our collective "Hope" in him to change things for the better, then if we put our "Hope" in Romney to accomplish the same feat, we will be sorely disappointed.
I will not vote for Romney. Let it be clear that Romney is probably going to win because Obama has been such an utter disaster. Romney will win, but not with my vote or the votes of those you choose to ridicule here. We are standing on solid ground by not choosing to be pragmatic with our priciples. I have vowed never to vote again for any candidate with a pro-abortion record or who advocates a pro-abortion platform. For Romney's entire political career he has been firmly entrenched in the pro-abortion camp. His recent "conversion" is nothing but "lies and deceit" which is how he won the nomination and it is how he will succeed in winning the Presidency. He will win it. But not with my vote. No how. No way.
Betty,
It all boils down to two things.
Cain endorses Romney
Santorum endorses Romney
Newt endorses Romney
Ms Bauchmann endorses Romney... but these folks think they know better.
In addition, the reality is; Obama or Romney.
Thank you for having the wisdon to see that.
Be well.
Betty,
It all boils down to two things.
Cain endorses Romney
Santorum endorses Romney
Newt endorses Romney
Ms Bauchmann endorses Romney... but these folks think they know better.
In addition, the reality is; Obama or Romney.
Thank you for having the wisdon to see that.
Be well.
If you think voting has no power you shouldn't vote at all, and to make the equation that a radical leftist is the same as a progressive RINO squish is beyond moronic. You can say it all day long, over and over, but that won't make it true.
If pretending they are the same gets you off (which it seems to), go ahead, be silly, vote your way and continue your irrelevance even to yourself.
I will not allow a radical leftist to be reelected with my vote.
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