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Women Don't Belong in Ranger School
Wall Street Journal ^ | 6-12-12 | Stephen Kilcullen

Posted on 06/13/2012 3:41:24 PM PDT by kingattax

The United States Army is debating whether to admit women to Ranger School, its elite training program for young combat leaders.

Proponents argue this is to remove a final impediment to the careers of Army women. But the move would erode the unique Ranger ethos and culture—not to mention the program's rigorous physical requirements—harming its core mission of cultivating leaders willing to sacrifice everything for our nation.

The Army's 75th Ranger Regiment traces its roots back to World War II, when it won acclaim for penetrating deep behind Japanese lines. Founded in 1950, Ranger School teaches combat soldiers small-unit tactics and leadership under extreme duress. It pushes men harder than any other program in the Army's curriculum.

Competition to attend the course is fierce, with about 4,000 men eligible to attend each year. Only about half graduate. Of those, only 20% make it through without having to retake various phases.

For decades, completion of Ranger School has been the best indicator for determining which young men can handle the enormous responsibility of combat leadership

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: liberalagenda; rangerschool
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To: kingattax

They already allow homosexuals and muslims. Why not women too?


301 posted on 06/16/2012 7:25:55 AM PDT by Bronco_Buster_FweetHyagh (I cling to guns and religion.)
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To: CodeToad

It was a joke.


302 posted on 06/16/2012 7:48:23 AM PDT by SkyDancer
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To: CodeToad
It was a joke.

Sort of like this:

The teacher gave her fifth grade class an assignment: Get their parents to tell them a story with a moral at the end of it. The next day, the kids came back and, one by one, began to tell their stories. There were all the regular types of stuff: spilled milk and pennies saved. But then the teacher realized, much to her dismay, that only Janie was left.

"Janie, do you have a story to share?'

''Yes ma'am. My daddy told me a story about my Mommy.

She was a Marine pilot in Desert Storm, and her plane got hit. She had to bail out over enemy territory, and all she had was a flask of whiskey, a pistol, and a survival knife.

She drank the whiskey on the way down so the bottle wouldn't break, and then her parachute landed her right in the middle of 20 Iraqi troops.. She shot 15 of them with the pistol, until she ran out of bullets, killed four more with the knife, till the blade broke, and then she killed the last Iraqi with her bare hands.”

''Good Heavens,” said the horrified teacher. “What did your Daddy tell you was the moral to this horrible story?”

"Stay away from Mommy when she's been drinking."

303 posted on 06/16/2012 8:00:15 AM PDT by SkyDancer
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To: SkyDancer

I’ll take that as an admission that there’s not a chance in Hell you’d ever spray-paint any part of him.


304 posted on 06/16/2012 8:26:50 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: SkyDancer

It’s pretty obvious most of your other absurd little stories are jokes, too.


305 posted on 06/16/2012 8:28:40 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: thefactor

RLTW ping...


306 posted on 06/16/2012 8:29:56 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: SkyDancer

“It was a joke.”

It wasn’t presented as a joke. Don’t piss on my leg and try to tell me it is raining. You’re not the first little kid that came here trying to build a tough guy persona.


307 posted on 06/16/2012 10:16:59 AM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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To: fireman15
I seriously doubt whether there are more than a handful of women in the entire country who would even be interested in going to Ranger School. The thing that I object to here is mischaracterizing the women who have served and are currently serving our country right now.

*************************************

The only "mischaracterizing" that's going on here is yours.

308 posted on 06/16/2012 10:26:19 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: kingattax

Boy are these girls going to be disappointed.

309 posted on 06/16/2012 10:26:50 AM PDT by rabidralph
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To: trisham
My sister-in-law retired after 27 years in the military. I have another close female friend who retired recently as a Colonel after 25 years. I mentioned in the thread that I put together a slide show for the funeral for our friend Colonel Vera Jones who was the first Woman Marine officer stationed in Vietnam. We will be participating and showing it again when she is remembered at the National Cemetary near where we live this next month.

This thread is filled with people telling stories of woman screw-ups in the military and even in a fire department. I personally know many women who served in the military honorably and professionally who were very competent. The attempt has been made here to paint them all with the same ugly brush and all because of the threat that the brass might open up ranger school to women. It is doubtful that many, if any women would even bother to attempt such a thing. I just don't like the direction this thread has taken with many people berating all female service members.

I would appreciate it if you would point out what “mischaracterizing” that I have done. I am not sure where you are coming from.

310 posted on 06/16/2012 11:43:50 AM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: fireman15
The attempt has been made here to paint them all with the same ugly brush and all because of the threat that the brass might open up ranger school to women. It is doubtful that many, if any women would even bother to attempt such a thing. I just don't like the direction this thread has taken with many people berating all female service members.

*************************

I don't see that the direction of this thread is "with many people berating all female service members". This thread is about women in Ranger School. Not women who serve in supportive roles.

By the way, my mother was a U.S. Navy WAVE in WWII. I'm very proud of her, partly because she wasn't in the business of denying physical realities, unlike some on this thread.

311 posted on 06/16/2012 11:58:39 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: kingattax

MSNBC is reporting the pentagon is considering modifying the Ranger patch to read Rangerettes directly under the traditional Ranger name, but in slightly smaller letters.


312 posted on 06/16/2012 12:13:06 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: fireman15
Thank you for your very interesting post. Your wife has a fascinating career. The older I get the more I appreciate history. And the history of the American woman from pre-revolutionary times to the present is amazing. I'm used to the Ansel types. Luckily for me I have always been in a position to ignore them. They could never touch me because I was always better than the mediocre types and the excellent types (good fortune on my part) always recognized my hard work and abilities. It just annoys me that the mediocre types want to shut out the talented ones.


It somewhat surprises me that there are such antiquated opinions towards women in the Military. Presently with such high unemployment the Military can be very selective. Where I am in total agreement with possibly a majority of posters here, are quotas. I am against quotas. There need to be standards and those standards need to be met. If they are not met, then those candidates are not qualified. Now determining what those standards are and how to apply them can get political.


Having said all that, usually Military personnel are up on history. You would think they know how tough certain types of American women can be. For example, the Pioneers and indentured servants were the 1st Frontier Community Organizers. They were amazingly brave, tough, willful and in many cases successful. You mean to tell me now, all of a sudden a certain type of American Woman could not handle wars especially a war against the Jihadist culture? Especially when the Jihadist culture is such a threat to everything that is American including American Womanhood?

But here is may caveat. When I am talking about “a certain type of American Women”, I am talking about those who are not motivated by Free Education but by the challenge. And like you said there most likely would be just a handful of such women who are that motivated to be all that they can be, Rangers.

Yup, I'm paraphrasing the old Army slogan. : )

313 posted on 06/16/2012 1:16:22 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. TY)
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To: CodeToad

I’ve run into too many people like you here. All uptight. Chill. If you’re having a tough time, then stay out of my kitchen.


314 posted on 06/16/2012 1:31:36 PM PDT by SkyDancer
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To: rlmorel; fireman15
“But because there are deadly aspects of warfare carried out by 98 lb. women in clean clothes in air conditioned rooms, we are all forgetting that if our GPS goes away, our satellites go away, our precision munitions go away, our stealth airplanes and helicopter gunships go away, warfare will suddenly become very primitive. It may end up looking like Omaha Beach, Peleliu or Chosin.

And at that point, the composition of the units in the fight is going to be very important, and it will be too late to do anything about it.”

1. I don't know too many 98 lb, women, unless you are talking about anorexic models.

2, You do realize women survive war, including civilian women who were victims of the very personal Allied bombings (nothing like watching liquid fire flowing down the air raid stairs in your direction, or buildings blowing up as you are collecting food and water, or Russians looking at you and saying, “Komm hier Fraulein.) and the Russian Occupation of Berlin. Gee, wonder how that happened? Be careful with your response, female members of my family will come after and I don't think the Marines will save you. ; )

3. As long as the Military weeds out the pansies and allows the American Trooper to be the American Trooper there will be hell to pay.

BTW, I think this little gal proves my point. Go Airborne!

http://www.emtcity.com/topic/11487-19-year-old-female-medic-receives-silver-star-in-afghanistan/

315 posted on 06/16/2012 1:44:09 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. TY)
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To: CodeToad; Travis McGee; Squantos; Pelham; DuncanWaring; dixiechick2000

Y’all owned the hear me roar slattern from down yonder

By her bravado my 12 year old Wade is a crack shot, fights like Marciano and lives to be in some guaranteed fighting unit some day

So why not now?

He’d make a great tunnel rat for sure....by same logic stupid women in combat sorts make here

Matt knows him....he can vouch for his tenacity.....Wade could also talk the enemy to death....just put him on some loudspeakers ala Noriega

/sarcastic

Remote posting from Grayton Beach


316 posted on 06/16/2012 1:44:38 PM PDT by wardaddy (the GOP are cowards)
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To: DuncanWaring; fireman15
A Silver Star.....Wow!

Go Airborne! Imagine, the 82nd Airborne, the All American Airborne allows little female Pattons to represent them. Go figure!

http://www.emtcity.com/topic/11487-19-year-old-female-medic-receives-silver-star-in-afghanistan/

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6281963544/m/5770076371001

317 posted on 06/16/2012 1:54:22 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. TY)
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To: SkyDancer

“If you’re having a tough time, then stay out of my kitchen.”

“Your kitchen”? Seriously? Grow up, stupid.


318 posted on 06/16/2012 2:11:25 PM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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To: fireman15

“It is doubtful that many, if any women would even bother to attempt such a thing.”

The same thing was said of jump school and look at the nasty turn that took. Why are women even in jump school if they are not combat qualified? Why is my tax payer dollars being spent on such nonsense?


319 posted on 06/16/2012 2:13:51 PM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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To: CodeToad
Photobucket
320 posted on 06/16/2012 2:19:10 PM PDT by SkyDancer
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To: DuncanWaring
“Tell me how many women you know who can survive in that environment.”

: )

Have you limited yourself to just Paris Hilton types? You know the ones who carry little poochies in their purses, have a manicure a day. Wear a different outfit every hour. Have 1,000 pairs of shoes. You know, those types. Just wondering.

321 posted on 06/16/2012 2:25:08 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. TY)
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To: SkyDancer
Secondly, nice movie still.

Movie still?

What movie was that?

You really are delusional beyond words.

322 posted on 06/16/2012 2:34:44 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Chgogal

What’s your point?

That a woman in a bad situation performed heroically?

I don’t recall anyone saying that was impossible.

How does that translate to “Women should be allowed to go to Ranger school”?


323 posted on 06/16/2012 2:37:04 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Chgogal

Like I said - tell me how many women you know who can survive in that enviroment.


324 posted on 06/16/2012 2:39:43 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring; SkyDancer
Oh, she was just "joking." You just don't get it.

Like I said to her in another post, with a mouth like she's displaying on this thread, if she were a guy, someone would have shut it up by now.

And she turned it into some desire on my part to beat her.

And the only reason that hasn't happened to her yet, is because she's a female.

Not a woman, and certainly not a lady.

But 100% jackass.

325 posted on 06/16/2012 2:41:45 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: trisham

I am not in favor of women serving in roles for which they are not suited. I am also not in favor of CoEd groups of comabat soldiers... I don’t think that is a good idea and would reduce our troops effectiveness. There are a lot of posts in this thread which paint women in the military in a bad light however... and I don’t think that is right.


326 posted on 06/16/2012 2:49:14 PM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass
M'kay ... bring it on!

Photobucket

327 posted on 06/16/2012 2:51:57 PM PDT by SkyDancer
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To: SkyDancer

OK, so you posted a picture of a woman standing next to a big scary gun.

What’s your point/what’s that prove?


328 posted on 06/16/2012 2:54:19 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring
“How does that translate to “Women should be allowed to go to Ranger school”?”

If they don't pass they won't be Ranger Qualified. So, what's your problem just letting them try? Let them fail. Are you afraid they may, just may pass the qualifications? My guess, that most if not all will most likely fail. But I will be damned if I refuse let them try.

329 posted on 06/16/2012 2:56:12 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. TY)
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To: SkyDancer
That ain't you, and I've shot a mini-gun.

Not sure what your point is, other than yes, if you wanted to fight me, you'd need a gun.

330 posted on 06/16/2012 2:56:12 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: fireman15; SkyDancer
I have to say that I don't agree. Unfortunately, a poster who claims to be a woman has on this thread apparently intentionally provoked almost everyone, including me. I find her posts on this thread to be an embarrassment at best.

Perhaps I am too much a traditionalist, but I don't understand women who see men as competition.

331 posted on 06/16/2012 3:00:12 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Chgogal
The point has been made, repeatedly, that the political powers that be wouldn't be satisfied with .0001% of female applicants passing. The standards would eventually succumb to political pressure, just like in every other previous social enginering venue.

Not to mention the disruption of the existing training program just to accomodate the vast numbers of applicants that will be pushed through, even if they eventually fail.

But hey, the "logic" shown by the gals on this thread has provided quite a laugh.

332 posted on 06/16/2012 3:01:42 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: DuncanWaring
What’s your point?

That a woman in a bad situation performed heroically?

I don’t recall anyone saying that was impossible.

How does that translate to “Women should be allowed to go to Ranger school”?

What's your point? You just said it is not impossible for women to perform well, i.e. heroically. So why not let them attend Ranger School and see what they are made of? I don't get it. Ranger School is one hell of a challenge. What's your and other Freepers’ problem just letting these fellow Soldiers, who have your back, who have performed well to attend Ranger School? What the heck are you guys afraid of?

333 posted on 06/16/2012 3:02:14 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. TY)
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To: rlmorel
Another example of which I have personal experience is hockey. I played for about 15 years, mostly men's league stuff. There was a team that had two women on it, and they could skate. They were fine skaters and likely were stars in the women's leagues (we do have a few) but when they went up against men, they were completely negated by size and strength. They were flashy and skilled looking in warmups, and I remember feeling impressed, but as soon as the game began and they were leaned on, they disappeared completely.

About 7-8 years back the local men's league had an all-female team join the lowest division. Now, I was sandbagging at the time, so I played in that division (and another one much higher) for the winter. This women's team had won a national invitational tournament and was primarily college-age women at their peak (some even played for college teams). The average age on my lower-level team was about 35-40. There were 9-10 teams in the lower division, and we all played 25 or so games.

The women went 0-26 that year. And the next. Then they stopped playing...

334 posted on 06/16/2012 3:09:30 PM PDT by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwaet! Lar bith maest hord, sothlice!)
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To: Trailerpark Badass
So Badass and Duncan,

You would refuse to allow this 82nd Airborne Trooper to attend Ranger School? Too bad, she'd have your back no matter what.

http://www.emtcity.com/topic/11487-19-year-old-female-medic-receives-silver-star-in-afghanistan/

Badass, regarding this statement, “But hey, the “logic” shown by the gals on this thread has provided quite a laugh.”, I will put it in the category of Testosterone Idiocy.

335 posted on 06/16/2012 3:09:42 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. TY)
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To: DuncanWaring

First off blood turns very dark very fast especially on clothing like that. Secondly I’ve never seen a military handgun that shiny. They’re using Beretta’s which are very dark. Thirdly, he wouldn’t have that gun in his hand wrapped around someone carrying him They would have taken the pistol from him first off. As for a war movie? Pick one, any one. I understand too, that men are very delusional when it comes up to logic.


336 posted on 06/16/2012 3:11:46 PM PDT by SkyDancer
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To: Chgogal
You can put it wherever it makes you feel good.

I'll let others judge who's making a fool out themselves.

337 posted on 06/16/2012 3:12:40 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Chgogal

There’s a big difference between what she did, and loading 100+ pounds in your rucksack and going hiking through the mountains, sleeping two hours out of every 24, (and those not generally all at once), with people there trying to kill you.

We’re not afraid of anything; we know that there are more differences between men and women than their genitalia.

We know that any society that sends its women to fight for it before it sends the non-shaving boys and the old men that need canes is horribly flawed.

If you don’t understand that, it’s your problem, not mine.


338 posted on 06/16/2012 3:13:59 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: SkyDancer
You can watch the movie here.

Oh wait. It's not a movie, it's a book.

Idiot.

339 posted on 06/16/2012 3:15:44 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Charles H. (The_r0nin); rlmorel

So, let them attend Ranger School. They will fall out by your own admissions. It is imperative that the Military brass keep the standards. Now that may be more difficult than Ranger School. But that is a cultural/political problem.


340 posted on 06/16/2012 3:16:10 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. TY)
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To: Chgogal

Put 100 pounds on her back, don’t let her eat or sleep for a few days, and tell me how effective she is then.


341 posted on 06/16/2012 3:17:34 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: SkyDancer

That picture’s been around since a few months after it was taken.

In the environment they were in, they wouldn’t have been disarming anyone who could hold a gun.

Tell me again what movie it’s a still from.


342 posted on 06/16/2012 3:20:39 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring
“There’s a big difference between what she did, and loading 100+ pounds in your rucksack and going hiking through the mountains, sleeping two hours out of every 24, (and those not generally all at once), with people there trying to kill you.”

1. She's freaking Airborne.
2. It is rumored that A-stan has one or two mountains.
3. I'm sure her fellow Soldiers carried her pack for her, the gentlemen that they are. Yeah, that's what happened.
4. The Military gives out Silver Stars with valor to every blond bimbo who lets her fellow Soldiers carry her pack.

I will put your post under the category Testosterone Idiocy. There i said it. ; )

343 posted on 06/16/2012 3:22:45 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. TY)
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To: Chgogal
I'm sure her fellow Soldiers carried her pack for her,...

From the article you cited, she was riding around in a Humvee.

Like I said, let me know how well she does humping a 100-lb pack around the mountains for a few days of no food or sleep.

344 posted on 06/16/2012 3:25:57 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring
Duncan, are you Military (I don't want to assume anything)?

If so, thank you for serving. You do know, you guys are the best.

I mean that from the bottom of my bimbo heart. ; )

345 posted on 06/16/2012 3:26:50 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. TY)
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To: Chgogal

Me?

Military?

Not currently.


346 posted on 06/16/2012 3:29:43 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: SkyDancer
Just a point you made re: 9g's ... if you read it you'll know it wasn't all the time. You pull a turn trying to get inside the other pilot's turn you will pull up to that much. Secondly there's a lot of huffing and puffing when you do it. The plane i flew was a Marchetti S.F.260

In any event those planes do +9, -3 G's. You don't fly that full envelope. It's just what it's capable of and sometimes you almost get up there and do that.

Where did you find a model with a 50% bonus on G's?

It flies like a jet at speeds up to 271MPH, has a very light feel on the dual control sticks, can carry a tremendous amount of weight for its small size, and its ability to withstand aerobatic flight loads of +6/-3 Gs while maintaining a very low operating cost compared to jets.

http://www.skythrills.com/our-planes/marchetti.html

347 posted on 06/16/2012 3:42:58 PM PDT by eartrumpet
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To: Chgogal
So, let them attend Ranger School. They will fall out by your own admissions.

And how much would that cost? You don't seem to realize that training has a cost in time, resources, and money associated with it. Not to mention the males who may have passed that will not because they lost a slot to a woman who had no chance.

If one out of every 100,000 men under 6' tall could pass Ranger school, would you have a problem limiting Ranger school to 6' minimums? I wouldn't (and I'm under 6' tall). Because the cost of finding that one short guy who can will be waaaay more costly from weeding out the thousands who can't.

Besides, that really has nothing to do with it. Any society that allows its women to fight on the front lines when not faced with total destruction is a sick nation (morally, ethically, and spiritually). Period.

348 posted on 06/16/2012 3:44:23 PM PDT by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwaet! Lar bith maest hord, sothlice!)
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To: DuncanWaring
Yup, that's it. She took a Crystal Cruise to Pakistan, then hired a Limo and drove to her FOB Salerno in Khowst province. Then she let her man in waiting (as in lady in waiting) carry her pack and gun. When the shooting started, she snapped her fingers and her man in waiting took care of things. Silly little ol’ me. What was I thinking! ; )

BTW, 100 lb packs are tough but not impossible. I always thought that keeping the pack on was easier that taking it off. Once it was on if felt pretty light. But then again, I didn't have a military pack. My civilian pack was designed to spread all the weight to shoulders and hips. I'm sure the Military Packs are designed to carry as much as can. Big difference. I also screwed up once. I forgot to tighten my left shoulder strap when I jumped from one boulder to another attempting to cross a white water creek. My buddy caught me as the pack almost pulled me into the water. Never forget to tighten the straps. NEVER!

I know I would not have passed Ranger School. I do not do well when I don't know what coming at me. Hello! That is where Rangers, Green Berets, SEALs, and Delta, etc. do superbly. Awesome guys.

That said, still doesn't mean an American Soldier should be disallowed from attending Ranger School. ; ) There I said it again.

349 posted on 06/16/2012 3:49:09 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. TY)
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To: Chgogal

Perhaps you and your feminist friends would like to pay for that failed experiment? Why should everyone else?


350 posted on 06/16/2012 3:50:34 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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