Posted on 06/13/2012 3:41:24 PM PDT by kingattax
The United States Army is debating whether to admit women to Ranger School, its elite training program for young combat leaders.
Proponents argue this is to remove a final impediment to the careers of Army women. But the move would erode the unique Ranger ethos and culture—not to mention the program's rigorous physical requirements—harming its core mission of cultivating leaders willing to sacrifice everything for our nation.
The Army's 75th Ranger Regiment traces its roots back to World War II, when it won acclaim for penetrating deep behind Japanese lines. Founded in 1950, Ranger School teaches combat soldiers small-unit tactics and leadership under extreme duress. It pushes men harder than any other program in the Army's curriculum.
Competition to attend the course is fierce, with about 4,000 men eligible to attend each year. Only about half graduate. Of those, only 20% make it through without having to retake various phases.
For decades, completion of Ranger School has been the best indicator for determining which young men can handle the enormous responsibility of combat leadership
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
From the post: "I went through reserve Marine basic. Same thing guys did. I passed. No special privileges."
There is no such thing as "Reserve Marine basic" training (unless it is totally different from the Army that doesn't run separate schools for Reserves and Guard), there is only Marine basic training, and I don't think that she went through the man's version.
I'm curious of what she does in the Marine Reserves in her 4th year, and why in other posts she has to depend on family members to point out uniform mistakes and insignia to her in movies and parades, and such.
We agree we cannot and will not erode the unique Ranger ethos and culture.
We agree the rigorous physical requirements must remain in place.
We agree that the core mission of cultivating leaders willing to sacrifice everything for our nation must remain.
Am I correct in this?
Do we also agree that there are more differences between males and females that just genitalia?
You are bringing a young girls naive, (but chipper) attitude to what is a very serious situation.
The reality is that females being present has weakened every thing they have been allowed into in the army.
Jump school is nothing like what it used to be according to the young guys attending it since females showed up.
Females could not pass Basic training, or Jump School, so they had to change what passing consisted of.
The same thing happened to civilian Police and Fireman in the 1970s and 1980s, you are probably too young to remember how one by one each city, each department, each state’s Highway patrol, and on and on had to lower their standards until females could pass.
I meant it.
We have to assume the stats stated above are correct. This means out of the tens of thousands of American Soldiers available in the pool, only 4,000 Soldiers are eligible to participate at the Ranger School.
We agree on that, correct?
The only thing we are quibbling about is f vs m. Am I correct?
Now, I am only saying if an f Soldier can do what her fellow eligible m Soldier can do let her attend. If she cannot then she may not and can not attend the Ranger School. To make sure we understand each other. This imaginary f Soldier has to do everything as well or better than her eligible fellow m Soldier. Again the standards are the same and have not changed from today's standards. If the f Soldier's genitalia get in the way of her successfully completing any of her tasks she is OUT.
Now, I have seen posts stating that this imaginary f Soldier is taking a slot from an m Soldier. OK, assuming that not many f Soldiers are willing/capable to put up with Ranger School, allow an m Soldier as backup to replace this Amazon Annie should she fail.
Gentlemen, please debate the points not the genitalia. : )
There is a lot you are lying to us about isn’t there?
You attended Marine Corp boot camp for/with men, 4 years ago, after you were a well established freeper who had always been free and generous in posting about the veterans in your household, and all the pride in your father and brother, and uncle, but I am having a very difficult time finding out about your own service as a Marine.
Rather than all this childish going on about all that you can do as a Jet Pilot superior to Marine Jet pilots and a superior warrior to Force Recon Marines, why not tell us what you are doing as a current Marine in the Reserves?
You are only slightly older than I am. Do you remember the day we left Vietnam. Do you remember the helo leaving the US Embassy's roof and all the Vietnamese we left behind?
I cried for hours that day. It broke my heart.
“Question is: why were you up in such a day in a 152?”
Why wouldn’t I be? It is within my personal minimums and is a common day here in Colorado where the winds blow pretty much every day. If you can’t do crosswind landings you can’t fly Colorado. We’re only out of options when we reach control limits, and we fly 15kt crosswinds fairly often, nearly every week.
“”forecast” and “actual” are different.”
Not to mention in a place like Colorado the phrase, “Tower, say winds”, is a common request, even on short final.
“How about requiring every woman fighting in a war zone to have PMS?”
They may not win...but the word, ‘Berserk’, comes to mind. hehe
Yep.
And G'Day to all. Bye.
I wan't attacking your military service, I was getting at the idea that I think that you are a bald faced liar about your service.
What do you mean you have a "deferment" AND that you pulled a hitch in the Marine Corps Reserves?
This is where I am in total agreement with you. Under no circumstances can the standards be lowered. Rangers, SEALs, Delta, etc. are the elite of the elite. They must remain so. All candidates must pass the rigorous qualifications honestly. Equal opportunity but under no circumstances equal outcome. It is imperative that those who pass the qualifications do so honestly without any political pressure on the COs. Period. I understand that most Admirals and Generals are not up to the task of keeping politics out of this kind of thing, but that is a different problem.
An Army task force led by female officers says the military is falling short in providing equal health care for women on the battlefield even as public pressure grows to allow them a broader role in combat.
Basic improvements are needed to help women avoid higher rates of urinary tract or vaginal infections, stress-related menstrual difficulties and the chafing, bruising and bleeding caused by ill-fitting body armor designed for men, the task force’s report says.
But like in 1950, it might be an enemy that does not care about losing thousands of troops per day for as long as it takes to prevail, since they have 50 million “excess” males anyway, and their masters would like to cull that number down.”
It is my understanding that your hypothetical enemy is long fighting men and our side is short qualified Troopers, correct?
You are also indicate that our perfumed Princes are mucking up the Military for political reasons, by lowering the standards so social engineering can take place.
I agree with you. The high elite standards should remain the same for all candidates. They cannot and should not be "dumbed" down. If the target PC Troopers fail the qualifications, they fail. I don't understand why failing is such a bad thing. We need the best qualified Trooper for the mission. We do not need the best PC Trooper for the mission. Why is it so difficult for our Perfumed Princes to argue this and stand their ground? They shouldn't back down.
But you also support my position that we should maximize the talent pool as long as the elite standards remain the same or get tougher and politics do not muck up the eligibility process.
Many things don't add up, you have already claimed to still be in the Marine Reserves, in your 4th year, with 2 years left to go.
You also refuse to tell us what you do or did in the Marine Reserves. Were you released for mental issues?? Was it related to this?
"Ummm - educated me as to what? One of the things I used to do was to sneak up on the guys barracks, take pictures and get back without being seen. And yes, I’m the FreePer known as Skydancer and I’ve been here since 2005. I think there’s a bit of jealousy on your part that I should have learned the guy stuff and are upset that I can outclass you in various areas."
You are the least convincing "veteran" in claiming military service, that I have ever seen at freerepublic.
Chogal, I didn’t think your use of “pansies” was rude, it was shorthand for people who aren’t tough enough, and I understood it in that context.
We are going to have to disagree on this. Besides, it is a done deal anyway and is going to happen. You will be happy about it, I won’t, but that’s that.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.