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Tesla Model S: First drive of the electric sedan that will change the world or die trying
autos.yahoo.com ^ | June 22, 2012 | Justin Hyde

Posted on 06/23/2012 4:39:20 PM PDT by grundle

Of all the new cars unveiled this year, none will be as hotly anticipated as the Model S from Tesla Motors, a luxury sedan doubling as a brash, billion-dollar bet that the era of the electric car has arrived. As the first journalist to test-drive one, I can report the Tesla Model S successfully challenges a century of assumptions about what a great car can be.

Unlike gas engines, electric cars generate their maximum power at start -- and no electric car has ever had as much power as the Model S, whose Performance edition is good for 417 hp. The zero-to-60 mph run ticks by in an impressive 4.4 seconds (5.9 seconds for the 362 hp edition)

the Model S can even do long drives — up to 285 miles in the edition launching today

The revelation of what Tesla has accomplished sunk in when I returned to a gas-powered vehicle. Other luxury cars will keep pace with the Tesla, but after driving the Model S, suddenly you notice the lag between accelerator and power, the exhaust noise, all the energy necessary to keep those parts hurtling forward. It makes a fossil fuel-powered car seem to be working so much harder than necessary. Which is the point.

(Excerpt) Read more at autos.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: bloggersandpersonal; cars; green; sourcetitlenoturl; tesla; teslamotors
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To: dragnet2
I think you supporting the terrorist and A-rabs/muslims is a bad thing.


Alinsky tactics are the refuge of liberal scoundrels. Drill domestically. Don't stop domestic companies from drilling in the gulf while allowing the Chinese and South American companies free exploitation of the fields.

If you take an airplane you are still burning fossil fuels. Why not take a train, comrade? Your fellow travelers love to put people on trains.

I love my freedom. Try a touring bike. It's the best way to travel.

101 posted on 06/23/2012 9:46:22 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: dragnet2

Are you the assshole who refuses to admit new technology eventually replaces old technology and refuses to admit nothing stays the same?
IBTZ . . . someone has no respect for the rules, I see.
Please: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts.

102 posted on 06/23/2012 9:49:32 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: NavVet

——Electric cars use less energy because electric motors are extremely efficient at converting stored energy into forward motion. Around 90 percent compared to a gasoline engine that may only be around 25 percent efficient.-——

But the electricity is created at oil or coal-burning plants, which are 33% efficient, and then transported over lossy power lines.


103 posted on 06/23/2012 9:50:43 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: Olog-hai

To be fair, I compared him to brain damaged relatives. However, I’m speaking from experience. I’ve got many liberal relatives who sound a lot like him.


104 posted on 06/23/2012 9:52:12 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
Drill domestically.

Yeah, you do that pal. I have no problem with that.

But the fact is, you can love your freedom all you like, but technology is changing, and new technologies are coming on line, weather you like it or not slick.

Nothing stays the same. Big surprise to you, no doubt.

105 posted on 06/23/2012 9:54:45 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; dragnet2
But the electricity is created at oil or coal-burning plants, which are 33% efficient, and then transported over lossy power lines.

Are you suggesting electric cars support “the terrorist and A-rabs/muslims.”

This would make dragnet2 a hypocrite!

OH NOES!!!

106 posted on 06/23/2012 9:58:28 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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Comment #107 Removed by Moderator

To: dragnet2

Nothing stays the same. Big surprise to you, no doubt.


Electric car technology hasn’t really changed since the turn of the century. I mean to say, it hasn’t changed since the turn of the PREVIOUS century.

Alright, we’ve got a lot more drainage devices. In the early 1900s, they didn’t have electric windows, MP3 Players and what-not.

For some odd reason, the smart money went with the internal combustion engine. That’s the are smart investors figured they could make profits and gains.

They didn’t have the opportunity to stick their filthy paws in the taxpayers pockets. I guess you have an advantage that they lacked.


108 posted on 06/23/2012 10:03:01 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: norwaypinesavage

The batteries were said to store 85 KWh, about the same as about 10 cups of gasoline - 2/3 of a gallon.


It’s bad, but not that bad. Gasoline contains 36.6 KWh per gallon. Given that IC engines run at about 25% efficiency, it’s similar to an 8 gallon gas tank. 85 KWh is a very large battery. eg: the Chevy reVolting has 10 KWh usable power.


109 posted on 06/23/2012 10:05:38 PM PDT by Captain Steve
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
For some odd reason, the smart money went with the internal combustion engine.

Well sure, the insiders saw a good thing, they got super rich...They BS'd the A-rabs until they got smart.

The EC engine works great, but things are changing. Ya think people are going to sucking up gasoline to commute to work 300 years from now? Get freaking real.

Technology is changing. Ya better deal with it.

110 posted on 06/23/2012 10:10:24 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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ER..The IC engine works great, but things are changing...

Anyone who denies this has their head deep in A-rab sands.


111 posted on 06/23/2012 10:19:37 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

Well sure, the insiders saw a good thing, they got super rich...They BS’d the A-rabs until they got smart


So...according to the infinite wisdom of dragnet2, the Arabs were a force to be reckoned with during the early twentieth century.


112 posted on 06/23/2012 10:21:48 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
Oh stop with your BS.

When fuel rockets to 5 or 6 bucks a gallon or more, and you can bet the rent it will, you can tell me all about it.

113 posted on 06/23/2012 10:25:08 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

When fuel rockets to 5 or 6 bucks a gallon or more, and you can bet the rent it will, you can tell me all about it.


Didn’t Obama promise that energy costs would “skyrocket” under his plan?

What will that do to the cost of electricity? Will coal fired electrical plants fare well under these conditions?

Aren’t you gonna laugh out loud the same way you chuckled over “our” tax dollars going towards criminal invaders?

Do you really get a kick over tax dollars supporting illegals? Do you even pay taxes? What planet are you from?


114 posted on 06/23/2012 10:33:38 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: 2banana

..............And why are taxpayers subsidizing expensive cars for the wealthy?....................

So that the government can tax away their riches for a net, net, net huge gain!


115 posted on 06/23/2012 10:35:37 PM PDT by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
Didn’t Obama promise that energy costs would “skyrocket” under his plan?

Bush invaded Iraq...Cost ya *trillions*...What did ya win?

You won gas at double+ the price...lol

116 posted on 06/23/2012 10:40:35 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Olog-hai
“I’m still trying to get my head around the description of 7,000 AA-sized lithium ion batteries in this thing.”

The cells actually have twice the volume of a AA-sized battery. I am not sure why the author was not able to get that right; it makes me wonder about the credibility of the rest of the rest of the article.

As a rule of thumb... any time rechargeable batteries are charged at an accelerated rate it shortens their life and a significant amount of electricity will be wasted. The 18650 Lithium Ion cells retail for several dollars a piece in bulk. These batteries are going to be a lot more expensive than the batteries in our current batch of electric cars. Unsubsidized we are talking $20,000 minimum. No one really expects them to last more than two or three years with heavy use. And if you don't use the car much... what is the point of owning one of these super expensive "fuel saving" vehicles?

Unfortunately, despite the hundreds of millions of dollars in government subsidies for this project are largely being wasted. This project would never fly if left on its own. It probably won't fly even with the subsidies. Our country's electrical grid is not capable of supporting a large amount of additional load.

Anyone who thinks that the government should be spending hundreds of millions of dollars on this should also be supporting spending hundreds of millions of dollars on new electrical generation plants and the additional infrastructure that will be needed to keep them on the road. But a trillion here and a trillion there... whose keeping track. Anyone who looks at this thing critically will realize that it is a massive boondoggle.

117 posted on 06/23/2012 10:44:02 PM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: dragnet2; Admin Moderator

Bush invaded Iraq...Cost ya *trillions*...What did ya win?

You won gas at double+ the price...lol


I never said I supported President Bush’s policies. You argue like a typical liberal.

You keep going “LOL” over everything that harms the United States.

Why does our nation’s potential demise fill you with such obvious glee?


118 posted on 06/23/2012 10:44:44 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

Now ya cry and whine and call the hall monitor?

LOL!


119 posted on 06/23/2012 10:46:22 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2; Admin Moderator; Jim Robinson

Now ya cry and whine and call the hall monitor?


I’m simply letting a responsible adult know that a demented child is running with scissors.

Tell us more about how, in your words, “Bush invaded Iraq...Cost ya *trillions*...What did ya win? You won gas at double+ the price...lol”

That LOL part really slays me. What a “knee slapper.”


120 posted on 06/23/2012 10:51:07 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: fireman15

Just a few details made me see “boondoggle” in this whole thing anyhow, the biggest one being the word “subsidy”. The article reads like a sales pitch, about as shallow and transparent as those pitches used to attempt to sell the Chevy Volt.


121 posted on 06/23/2012 10:52:26 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
I’m simply letting a responsible adult know I was crying and whining and stomping my feet, hoping daddy would help

Yuk yuk yuk...

122 posted on 06/23/2012 10:52:53 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

ooh you look so weird.

She said, man, there’s really something wrong with you.
One day you’re gonna self-destruct.

Youre up, you’re down, I can’t work you out
You get a good thing goin then you blow yourself out.

Silly boy ya self-destroyer


123 posted on 06/23/2012 11:00:49 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: Figment

You don’t know WTF you are talking about.

Top 10% pay over 70% of federal income tax.

Percentile 11- 50 pay only ~26% of federal income tax.

Percetile 51-70 pay ~2%.

The bottom pay nothing.


124 posted on 06/23/2012 11:02:55 PM PDT by Reaganez
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

Nice song and dance jingle ya there slick...

((Too funny))


125 posted on 06/23/2012 11:05:02 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse; dragnet2
Electric car technology hasn’t really changed since the turn of the century. I mean to say, it hasn’t changed since the turn of the PREVIOUS century.

The technologies actually have evolved, but unfortunately the cost / benefit equation has improved very little if at all. It was interesting that the author started the article discussing the whizzbang control screen. I believe if the government is spending hundreds of millions of our tax dollars... they ought to be concentrating on basic transportation not super expensive play things.

When we finally do get to the point where hydrocarbon based fuel sources actually do start to get prohibitively expensive... it is not too difficult to imagine people switching over to glorified golf carts to commute and run their errands. That will be far enough in the future that the Tesla vehicles will probably be just a footnote in the annals of government waste records.

We currently do not have the power generation facilities or the grid to support such a transition. That is where it would make sense to spend the money. I don't see electric utility companies and golf cart manufacturing companies currently getting huge subsidies. That is because in our system when companies turn out useful products they don't need giant governement subsidies.

126 posted on 06/23/2012 11:11:40 PM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

BTW, stay our of my PM...

If ya got something to say to me, keep it public, right here junior.


127 posted on 06/23/2012 11:13:21 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

BTW, stay our of my PM...


Who ever is holding the bottle really needs to cut you off.


128 posted on 06/23/2012 11:16:04 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: Olog-hai
the biggest one being the word “subsidy”

Amen to that!

129 posted on 06/23/2012 11:16:59 PM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

As I said, stay out of my PM

Ya got something to say to me, say it right here on the open forum sonny.

And feel free to call and whine to the (AM) hall monitor again!

Hehehe...


130 posted on 06/23/2012 11:19:23 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

As I said, stay out of my PM


Actually, you said “BTW, stay our of my PM... “

I haven’t sent any Private Messages to you since before your odd, slurred post #127.

You may want to call for medical attention. If you’d rather not, at least lay off the booze. You’re an embarassment.


131 posted on 06/23/2012 11:23:51 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
I haven’t sent any Private Messages to you since before I cried to the hall monitor

I love it!

132 posted on 06/23/2012 11:26:11 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

How cute. Really.

You’ve spent your entire life trying to remake reality.

You’re amused, but that part has always come so easily.

How sad.

You numb your senses far too often and play your peculiar little games. It makes you feel a bit better, but it’s still all a bizarre little fantasy.

In the end, it’s all just dumped into a cheap wood box.

Is there anyone who will bother to visit and leave a few wilted flowers?


133 posted on 06/23/2012 11:34:51 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
You’ve spent your entire life trying to remake reality.

LOL!

134 posted on 06/23/2012 11:36:30 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

Have a few more drinks. You’re less annoying when you pass out.


135 posted on 06/23/2012 11:37:33 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

You’re a hoot!


136 posted on 06/23/2012 11:38:23 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

I hate to say it, but for all the hype about electric cars, Tesla did something right that GM completely flubbed:

No-one’s gonna add $20,000 to the price of a $10,000 car for it to be electric. But those who would already buy a $70,000 would pay $90,000 for it to be electric, if being electric meant it had the most kick-ass performance ever.

Tesla was aiming for under $50,000. That they had to go as low as 40 kwh to make it $50,000 means they failed badly. And yet, they will still be profitable and pay those loans back. At $100,000 a car, it doesn’t take too long to pay off $1 billion startup costs.


137 posted on 06/24/2012 5:08:06 AM PDT by dangus
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Frankly, I think Tesla’s big mistake is battery management. I sure as hell wouldn’t pay for a car that I couldn’t even visit my folks in. Using Battery swaps at refueling would defer costs to Tesla down the road, but allow you to travel more than 250 miles in a day.


138 posted on 06/24/2012 5:12:28 AM PDT by dangus
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To: NavVet; St_Thomas_Aquinas

The problem is that much of that energy is lost, anyway, in the conversion INTO electricity.

The great advantage of electric cars is that you don’t have to carry a power plant and fuel around with you, allowing the energy to be from Thorium, coal, solar, whatever.


139 posted on 06/24/2012 5:27:19 AM PDT by dangus
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To: NavVet

“Electric cars use less energy “

Um, two cars that weight the same going the same speed and having accelerated at the same rate used the same amount of energy reglardless of their powerplant.


140 posted on 06/24/2012 6:04:09 AM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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To: NavVet

“Electric cars use less energy because electric motors are extremely efficient at converting stored energy into forward motion. Around 90 percent compared to a gasoline engine that may only be around 25 percent efficient.”

The efficiency of coal power plants is about 30%, the stuff electric cars run off of.


141 posted on 06/24/2012 6:06:24 AM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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To: dragnet2

“That’s all fine, but the fact is, the 550 Mercedes can’t touch the S from 0-60. “

But it sure can past, what, 40 miles or so? 0-60 is one thing, cruising is another. Besides, just who is stupid enough to shred their tires on every takeoff, not to mention the energy drain from the battery on such takeoffs greatly shortens the total distant the electric car can travel. The ONLY thing the electric car does better than an internal combustion engine is supply massive torque. If we as consumers were worried about that we would install MG sets into our cars and get that torque from an engine. Obviously, that high of torque isn’t that high on our priority list since we already have engines that supply the torque we need.

Electric Cars: A solution looking for a problem to solve.


142 posted on 06/24/2012 6:13:27 AM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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To: CodeToad; NavVet
Add to what the others have said, that an electric car is much heavier, and you use energy in repeatedly accelerating and breaking that extra weight (even with regenerative braking).

Plus you really don't want to be in a heavy car, going down hill, on an icy street.

143 posted on 06/24/2012 6:15:04 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: twistedwrench

Hehe...now that’s what I’m talking about!


144 posted on 06/24/2012 6:21:00 AM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Rush Limbaugh = the Beethoven of talk radio - http://www.istandwithrush.org/)
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To: PapaBear3625

“an icy street.”

Not to mention an electric motor breaks free on icy roads and the batteries supply less total energy when cold.


145 posted on 06/24/2012 6:24:17 AM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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To: dragnet2

“When fuel rockets to 5 or 6 bucks a gallon or more”

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it...that’d be you.

In the 1970’s and 1980’s the same things was said of gas at over $2 a gallon when gas was under $1. Here it is at $4, yet, that prediction is still wrong.


146 posted on 06/24/2012 6:27:39 AM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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To: CodeToad
When visiting an elderly relative in Florida, I noticed that several people in her gated adult community kept golf carts instead of cars, for trips around the complex, and to the supermarket and movie theater (all accessible by private road, they don't go on the public streets).

In that context, an electric vehicle makes some sense.

147 posted on 06/24/2012 6:34:03 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: dragnet2

“When fuel rockets to 5 or 6 bucks a gallon or more”

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it...that’d be you.

In the 1970’s and 1980’s the same things was said of gas at over $2 a gallon when gas was under $1. Here it is at $4, yet, that prediction is still wrong.


148 posted on 06/24/2012 8:21:21 AM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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To: CodeToad

It’s the Toad!

I remember you!!

You’re the one who makes really stupid uninformed comments, then when called on it ya quickly head for the tall grass and disappear.

Nice character ya got there toad.


149 posted on 06/24/2012 8:52:18 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: B.O. Plenty; NavVet

Well, I guess you got me there. I have to admit I didn’t know about the electric dragsters. But ...
They may be quick off the line, but how are they doing at the other end? I know I have to eventually adapt with the times, but a big part of drag racing is the noise and the smells. Ya gotta love the smell of nitro in the morning. :)


150 posted on 06/24/2012 5:01:52 PM PDT by Dartman
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