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Conservatives target Republicans who back gay marriage: 'You could lose your career'
MSNBC ^ | June 24 2012 | Miranda Letsinger

Posted on 06/24/2012 4:53:45 AM PDT by scottjewell

Brian Brown, executive director of NOM, doesn't shy away from the fact his group is hoping to intimidate wavering lawmakers into opposing gay marriage.

“The message is clear, that supporting same-sex marriage is a losing issue, not a winning issue,” Brown told msnbc.com. “You could lose your career over supporting same-sex marriage.”

He also doesn't buy the argument that gay marriage is a settled issue in New York, even though a May 2012 poll by Quinnipac University found the state's voters support same-sex marriage 54 to 37 percent.

"If we don’t get a vote this year, we’re going to work to get one next year. We’re not going away," Brown said. "I think it’s just wishful thinking to say that once you have same-sex marriage the fight’s over. It’s not."

(Excerpt) Read more at usnews.msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: conservatives; gop; homosexualagenda; samesexmarriage Comment #1 Removed by Moderator

To: scottjewell

talk about a losing battle.....


2 posted on 06/24/2012 4:57:06 AM PDT by brivette
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To: brivette

You mean Brown’s is the losing battle? I guess many would view it that way at this juncture... Time will tell...


3 posted on 06/24/2012 5:06:58 AM PDT by scottjewell (homosexual agenda,)
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To: scottjewell

“Elected official” is not a career, or at least it shouldn’t be.


4 posted on 06/24/2012 5:11:09 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Spinach at every meal.)
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To: scottjewell
People who promote mental illness as a lifestyle are simply setting us up for the next Sandusky or Jeffry Dahmer. They are builing politically correct societal constructs that will prevent us from saving hundreds, perhaps thousands of innocent lives from molestation, rape and murder.

This is an unspeakable evil that they left promotes as a "lifestyle just like the rest of us".

The great deceiver is laughing...

5 posted on 06/24/2012 5:12:52 AM PDT by Caipirabob (I say we take off and Newt the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...)
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To: scottjewell

Well, JC Penney backed the gay agenda and look what has happened to them. The fight isn’t lost ... 2% or less of the population should not be the tail wagging the dog. The 2% are agile, hostile & mobile .... and overplaying their hand - a good example is what they did in the WH recently. Those pictures need to go viral. Folks need to stand up and speak up for what is ‘right’, not go along to get along with the political correctness that will rip apart the moral fabric of the country and ultimately contribute to its destruction.


6 posted on 06/24/2012 5:27:09 AM PDT by MissMagnolia (Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't. (M.Thatcher))
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To: MissMagnolia
I hope Penneys goes totally broke. How dare they promote that cr** on "moral Americans".

Since when is morality a phobia???

7 posted on 06/24/2012 5:29:42 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: scottjewell; brivette
You mean Brown’s is the losing battle?

Well at that rate why don't you just tell us yourself, "homosexual agenda scottjewel."


8 posted on 06/24/2012 5:30:42 AM PDT by Agamemnon (Darwinism is the glue that holds liberalism together)
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To: Agamemnon

I hope Brown’s is not a losing battle.

I think the worst of it is that the gay rights agenda has been framed as simply a civil rights issue, without any thought to what is being dismantled and made more and more disordered in the social sphere. And masses of people are more than happy to go along with it.

It is not that gay marriage itself is wrecking traditional marriage; it is that traditional marriage was already attacked and the gays jumped on this deterioration to make the situation worse, to drive their wedge in.


9 posted on 06/24/2012 5:40:08 AM PDT by scottjewell (homosexual agenda,)
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To: scottjewell

having been married since 1973, I can attest to the sanctity of the institution.


10 posted on 06/24/2012 5:43:16 AM PDT by brivette
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To: Sacajaweau

Not broke, but losing lots & lots of money:

As Ford Motors will tell you, siding with radical homosexuals has its price. And in J.C. Penney’s case, the cost is about $163 million. According to the Wall Street Journal, J.C. Penney’s stock “has lost more than a third of its value since a disastrous earnings report in mid-May, when Penney’s posted a $163 million loss and said sales fell 20% in the first three months of its fiscal year.” CEO Ron Johnson also admitted that Father’s Day sales were a bust. “Penney’s shares fell 8.8% Tuesday to their lowest level in a year, [and] store traffic was down 10%.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2898007/posts


11 posted on 06/24/2012 5:45:49 AM PDT by MissMagnolia (Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't. (M.Thatcher))
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To: brivette

Yes indeed, I can as well.

But there can be no doubt that there has been a massive deterioration in the general society regarding this sanctity. Without that, same sex marriage would never have been able to even get its foot in the door. And if finally entrenched, will destroy any hope of reversing the tide.


12 posted on 06/24/2012 5:47:25 AM PDT by scottjewell (homosexual agenda,)
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To: scottjewell
"David Handschuh / Pool / Getty Images file"

Getty Images allow none of their images to posted to Free Republic.
Please make note of it.

13 posted on 06/24/2012 5:51:09 AM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: MissMagnolia

“2% or less of the population should not be the tail wagging the dog. The 2% are agile, hostile & mobile .... and overplaying their hand .”

Well, well said.


14 posted on 06/24/2012 5:52:29 AM PDT by scottjewell (homosexual agenda,)
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To: Admin Moderator

Ah, I see. Sorry. And yes, duly noted.


15 posted on 06/24/2012 5:53:22 AM PDT by scottjewell (homosexual agenda,)
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Before this thread goes much further, can someone - anyone - show me where "Marriage" is in the Constitution?

Until the King of England started taxing marriage in the 1500's (or 1600's...) governments of the world had ZERO role in the institution until the King of England decided to tax marriages in order to enrich himself.

There is no term 'marriage' in the Constitution or Bill of Rights because it is a RELIGIOUS institution. Freedom of Religion *is* protected by the United States Constitution. That freedom includes freedom from Government intervention into the Church.

Now, the entire discussion around marriage in a context of the "government's role" or "government definition" is completely wrong and people need to stop falling for it.

Rather, marriage should be defended as a RELIGIOUS institution, and as such is exempt from government meddling into it under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

That removes the issue from state AND federal manipulation of the issue and would force the United States Supreme Court to rule the Government has no role in the "definition of marriage."

The definition of marriage already exists in the Religious context.

Game, set, match.

Why don't other's see this as clearly?! Stop asking the Government to define marriage and tell them to stop it, and get out of the marriage "business" altogether! It is after all a revenue generating SCHEME for the Government!

Enough!

16 posted on 06/24/2012 6:02:08 AM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: usconservative

Yes, I become livid when I hear talk of “the constitutional right to marry a person of one’s own choosing” and “the right to marry is a fundamental civil right” - and all of this is said more than you would care to think.

Yes, government could well get out of the marriage business, and that is a libertarian view. However, it was after all government being in the marriage business which made it a solemn affair even for those who were not so religious.

But of course as you assert, is has now opened the door for redefinition. And with amendments coming up in several states in the November elections, you must realize this is a political reality in the U.S. currently.


17 posted on 06/24/2012 6:06:31 AM PDT by scottjewell (homosexual agenda,)
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To: scottjewell

I’ve come to the conclusion that only the complete collapse of Western civilization (something not nearly as unthinkable as it was a decade ago) will stop this and many other evils being visited upon us.

Absent that, the war is indeed over.

Sure, battles will be fought on a state by state basis for a long time, but the polling on the issue has showed a steady increase in acceptance for sexual deviancy as the basis for marriage for decades.

The next rampart to fall will be the first State election in which a majority either approves of homo marriage or votes down a measure to stop it, and it won’t be long in coming. It would likely have happened in California in ‘08 were it not for the large increase in black voters going to the polls to vote 0bozo in. Talk about a pyrric victory..

The time to stop it was decades ago when radical leftists effectively gained control of almost all public educational institutions. Seems to me that enough damage has been done now that only social upheaval on a very large scale might possibly wake the people (at least the surviving people..) up.


18 posted on 06/24/2012 6:10:18 AM PDT by gzzimlich
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To: MissMagnolia

... According to the Wall Street Journal,J.C. Penney’s stock “has lost more than a third of its value since a disastrous earnings report in mid-May,when Penney’s posted a $163 million loss and said sales fell 20% in the first three months of its fiscal year.”...

I love good news on Sunday morning.


19 posted on 06/24/2012 6:26:16 AM PDT by moovova
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To: gzzimlich

I’ve come to the conclusion that only the complete collapse of Western civilization (something not nearly as unthinkable as it was a decade ago) will stop this and many other evils being visited upon us.

Absent that, the war is indeed over. [. . . ]The time to stop it was decades ago when radical leftists effectively gained control of almost all public educational institutions. Seems to me that enough damage has been done now that only social upheaval on a very large scale might possibly wake the people (at least the surviving people..) up.”_________________

I have reached similar conclusions. The decadence is simply too deeply-rooted, and the new lifestyles too entrenched (going back to the ‘60s) for anything short of massive upheaval to bring in a new order (or a return to a former state of order).

Of course, those who engineered this “counter culture -become-main stream culture” knew that this would be the case.


20 posted on 06/24/2012 6:34:41 AM PDT by scottjewell (homosexual agenda,)
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To: usconservative

Problem is, what do you do about the religious sects/groups that have supported same sex “marriage”?


21 posted on 06/24/2012 6:35:48 AM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: scottjewell
However, it was after all government being in the marriage business which made it a solemn affair even for those who were not so religious.

The solemn affair you refer to is the religious ceremony, conducted in a church. From the government's perspective, the religious ceremony isn't required, therefore any judge, justice of the peace, or in many states a county clerk can perform a "marriage" ceremony. My argument here is very simple: the state (in this case the Federal Government and the State itself) tax marriage for purposes of generating revenue.

I don't think there's much dispute between you and I on that point.

"Marriage" from a State perspective requires a Marriage License. Inherent in the Marriage License (besides the revenue collected by the state) is a set of laws which govern what happens if the Marriage dissolves. That is, how is property divided up between the two parties? Who pays for child support and how much? How are retirement accounts and other assets divided, etc.. etc.. etc..

In reality, the "marriage" license is therefore a CONTRACT between the parties involved in the license: the couple and the State. This isn't just me saying it's a CONTRACT, any good divorce lawyer would say the same thing.

So where is the marriage actually performed? In the church itself, and it has nothing to do with the CONTRACT that the local States require for purposes of creating a revenue stream for themselves, and providing a legal framework for the disposition of assets acquired during the marriage should that marriage dissolve.

I would argue Marriage as a Religious institution and protected from Government interference by the First Amendment is a completely SEPARATE issue from the CONTRACT that States require (the "marriage license.")

The fight IS and SHOULD BE about keeping the Government OUT of the Church first, and rejecting the term "marriage" from being used. The homosexual agenda is about CORRUPTING the term "marriage" and thereby corrupting the Church itself.

If they're allowed to continue fighting on their terms, Church's across this country will be forced to perform "gay marriage" the same way the Government sponsored Church of England is now required to do.

To stop that, we must get the Government OUT of the Church and OUT of the "marriage" business. That means asserting our First Amendment rights to the fullest first, and rejecting the corrupted use of the word "marriage" when the reality is that "marriage licenses" are really CONTRACTS between the state and two individuals.

One does NOT need to be married (using the Religious term here) to enter into a CONTRACT with the state.

BTW: In my opinion, that is NOT a "libertarian" view, it is a solid, Conservative, strict Constitutionalist interpretation and view.

As it's Sunday morning, I'm off to Church and I wish you peace.

Regards,
USC

22 posted on 06/24/2012 6:36:41 AM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: Conscience of a Conservative
Problem is, what do you do about the religious sects/groups that have supported same sex “marriage”?

Simple: stop recognizing them as religious groups and call them what they really are.

It's like those folks who ask on here daily "What right is the government going to take away next?"

Aside from the fact that they're asking the wrong question, they're also demonstrating a lack of critical thinking skills which sadly, is in ever decreasing supply in this country.

The question should be "what Constitutional basis does the Government have to try and take away that right or regulate that behavior?"

That's just my view though, and I seem to be a member of a shrinking population here on FR and in this country. (Sigh...)

23 posted on 06/24/2012 6:41:51 AM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: gzzimlich

I also think what you are saying here amounts to what is said in this essay on the end of Western Civilization: Although the author is not speaking about gay invaders here, one can easily think of the host as being America, and the invaders as being gay agents, among others: in any case it can be applied to immigrants, feminists, socialists, gays and a host of other cultural “invaders”.

In short, I really think the below is exactly what you are asserting:

“Initially, while the invaders are present only in small numbers, they will treat their host with care and respect. The contempt they must feel about their host’s culture will be dissembled, along with their intention to exploit the wealth of their host while avoiding any demands the host may place upon them.

They will naturally subscribe to those laws of the host that carry the real threat of penalty or offer profit, but only because of convenience, and not for respect for the notions underpinning those laws; while all other laws of the host community will be silently treated with contempt except in those rare instances where they match their own culture.

Incompatible Nature Of Invaders Will Eventually Be Revealed

As the invaders numbers grow so will their confidence and their own culture will start to publicly assert itself. The invader’s general contempt for the culture of their host will become evident and will generate resentment between the different cultures, but while this may fester and flare from time to time, the host will confirm the decaying nature of its own culture by being unable to take effective action against the invaders.”

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/theend.htm


24 posted on 06/24/2012 6:42:13 AM PDT by scottjewell (homosexual agenda,)
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To: usconservative

Granting the government the power to determine which religious groups to recognize/not recognize would be the end of religious freedom.


25 posted on 06/24/2012 6:46:24 AM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: usconservative

Yes. You are right on all counts.

That your view would appear Libertarian (while being solidly conservative and constitutionally based ) attests to just how far Republicanism and conservatism in general has fallen away from its natural premises and roots.

Good Sunday to you.


26 posted on 06/24/2012 6:48:16 AM PDT by scottjewell (homosexual agenda,)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative
Granting the government the power to determine which religious groups to recognize/not recognize would be the end of religious freedom.

I didn't say I'd want the Government to stop recognizing them as religious institutions. That's up to you and I to call them what they really are and shine the light of truth on them.

Think of it this way: What do you think will happen (and I say WILL, because it's going to....) to the first Church of any denomination that performs the first "gay marriage?"

Do you think Church's around the country won't be speaking up calling that an abomination and against God? Do you think members of that Church won't up and leave and that eventually that Church would collapse?

That is what I meant when I said "stop calling them religious organizations and start calling them what they really are."

Good Sunday to you, I've over-stayed my time this morning and shall look for a response from you later.

Peace.

27 posted on 06/24/2012 6:54:28 AM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: gzzimlich

I think you would also be interested in this, as it supports your thesis, (as do I), gzzimlich:

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/cure.htm


28 posted on 06/24/2012 7:01:38 AM PDT by scottjewell (homosexual agenda,)
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Here is another good quote by a scholar which bears repeating and is relevant to this thread :The very first paragraph would seem to uphold US Conservative’s stance, while the rest of it is a reaffirmation of the general argument:

“. . . Government does not have the right to reorder this most basic institution of human organization. Marriage predates the establishment of government, and any governmental authority that would presume to redefine marriage apart from its inherently heterosexual nature will do so at great peril.

Furthermore, advances toward legal recognition of same-sex relationships have been propelled by the action of courts, rather than legislatures. This is another example of the “judicial usurpation of politics” that threatens the integrity of democracy itself. A government that would claim the right to redefine marriage in this way demonstrates an arrogance that would cause Rome to blush and Babylon to quiver.

Inevitably, once marriage is redefined as something other than a heterosexual pair, there is nothing to stop further redefinition but sheer arbitrariness. Once marriage is no longer “one thing,” but now “another thing” as well, there is nothing to stop marriage from becoming virtually “everything.” Put simply, if marriage can be redefined so as to allow same-sex pairings, there is nothing in the logic of this transformation that could justify discrimination against those who would transform marriage in other ways. Why just two people? If the consent of all partners is all that is requisite, why laws against incest, polygamy, or any number of other alternative arrangements? We can be certain that proponents of these transformations will be waiting in line for their turn to use the courts to reverse what they claim to be unlawful discrimination.

Marriage has already been weakened to the point of dire social peril. The acceptance of “no-fault” divorce laws, the ethic of sexual liberation, and even the rise of new reproductive technologies have weakened the foundation and superstructure of marriage to the point that this most basic molecule is hanging together by a thread. The redefinition of marriage in order to accommodate same-sex relationships would not mean the mere transformation of marriage—but its dissolution. The very concept of marriage cannot survive such a denial of its inherent meaning and historic structure.”


29 posted on 06/24/2012 7:40:04 AM PDT by scottjewell (homosexual agenda,)
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To: scottjewell

Sorry, here is the link to the above quote:

http://www.religiontoday.com/columnists/al-mohler/the-case-against-homosexual-marriage-1241113.html


30 posted on 06/24/2012 7:41:38 AM PDT by scottjewell (homosexual agenda,)
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To: Caipirabob
The great deceiver is laughing...

If I Were the Devil: Paul Harvey... by the late Great Paul Harvey

31 posted on 06/24/2012 8:27:32 AM PDT by Ron H.
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To: usconservative

.... to everything you said.

32 posted on 06/24/2012 8:57:29 AM PDT by Ron H.
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