Skip to comments.Justice Roberts Pleads: "Lie To Me"
Posted on 06/29/2012 4:14:31 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
..........Later in the day, however, the pundit elites started to furrow their brows and dust off their elbow patches -- and proceeded to try to convince us rubes that we had overreacted. They treated us to all kinds of contorted rationalizations and justifications full of pseudo-intellectual gobbledygook. We got this from Charles Krauthammer, George Will, Thomas Lifson, Erick Erickson -- among others. And while I really tried to like it -- and really tried to find solace or a silver lining -- there are just some basic, fundamental things I could not ignore. The bottom line is that John Roberts just told Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi figuratively to "lie to me...lie to me and I'll like it!" One can only wonder if he liked it as much as Chris Matthews liked the leg tingle or as much as David Brooks liked the sharp crease.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
I am wondering who perhaps unlawfully whispered in Justice Roberts ear to make this a tax.
"Members of this Court are vested with the authority to interpret the law; we possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments. Those decisions are entrusted to our Nations elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices."
Well the GOP and I would venture some posters on this site agreed with them at the time argued that it WAS in reality a TAX
Obama and the democrats argued that it wasn’t
Roberts said that the GOP was right and it is a tax and Obama and the democrats were lying or wrong
So he agreed with the GOP but that makes it constitutional but it is unconstitutional under the commerce act which the DEMS said it wasn’t
How is that for Irony
BUT who knows if every facet of the bill is constitutional
And Roberts essentially said it is not our job to read all 2500 or ever how many pages to decide that
As others have pointed out there will be challenges to individual aspects down the line which can’t be filed now since nobody has been affected yet
What a mess
With due respect, Antonin Scalia and Mark Levin disagree with you, and agree with me.
It’s not hard to understand. Reading is hard.
The are unforeseen consequences to this. The police state is out of control. Not we have the IRS and you can bet they will eventually be awarded drones and be armed to the teeth. The Feds have never hesitated to murder those because of lack of payment to a tax.
Using the tax system to force American’s into absolute slavery was unexpected by all. This sets a terrifying precedent.
It is not for the SCOTUS to set taxes, or even determine which taxes are just. That is the job of the people and their elected representatives. Congress hoped (AGAIN) that the SCOTUS would clean up their disaster, and yet again, the high court said nope, this is your mess, have fun. Oh, and stop lying, its a tax.
The SCOTUS has done a bang up job this week putting out good rulings.
McCain-Feingold was a horrible law, everyone thought that the second the SCOTUS gets it's hands on it, they'll tear it to shreds. Only they didn't. They turned around and said, umm, sure, you can conduct your elections however you please... - Translation - Your volley is returned, have a nice day.
Eventually it was shredded by the SCOTUS, but the temporary deviation from the constitution was required to keep the SCOTUS from becoming the ultimate member of Congress. They can NOT do the job of Congress - theirs is the job of protecting the constitution.
In ObamaCare, in the rush to get that last vote, the liberals just walked square into it. Roberts finally found a limit to the commerce clause - a chain that up until now was infinite. And for a bit of icing, ObamaCare got called what it was, the biggest tax increase in history.
Taxation is in the power of Congress. They could (and have in the past) create top tax rates to seize virtually every penny someone earns. That is an undisputed right, and it isn't within the SCOTUS power to restrict that right. That is held by The People, through their representatives.
Can Congress tax your right to prayer? No. Tax your ability to vote? No. Tax your speech? No. But they sure can tax anything they aren't restricted from.
So, yeah, the liberals on the court couldn't wait to let the Chief Justice Roberts write the most important opinion in recent history, and possibly one which will limit the federal government for generations to come, so long as their political goal was kept in sight - that of keeping whatever the liberals want to do alive.
They got it; the ultimate atomic bomb in American politics - you just raised the taxes on the people who actually get up and vote. Good luck with that.
Is SCUTUS Taxation on the fundamental right to life?
What is your point? Is your point now that Slate is the go to source for analysis?
Those educated in that system know little or nothing about history, economics, politics or anything else nor do they care. Entertainment is all that matters (just like the Romans). We are headed for full-blown Socialism. Critics of Capitalism claim that it concentrates wealth and power in the hands of a few. In reality, it gives so many opportunity. Why in the world does everyone want to come here?
On the other hand, Socialism actually DOES concentrate power and wealth in the hands of a few. Look at the oligarchy that ran Russia and the leadership in Cuba for clear examples. Why do so many want to leave those places? The healthcare system in both Russia and Cuba is basically a two-tiered system which is what is being established here by Obamacare. The elites in government and those with lots of money (which will soon only be the elites in government or those in business blessed by them (Facists) will have specialized, high-level healthcare while the rest of us will wait in line for God knows how many days to get a cavity filled. Congress AND unions to my knowledge are exempt from many provisions of Obamacare (someone fill in the facts here).
I heard all of my life two basic statements: "People get the kind of government they deserve." and "Be careful what you wish for". If this nation will turn back to God and do what is right, then we can restore this nation back to its original glory. If people refuse to acknowledge God, then they're going to get what they deserve and the few who recognize that will not be able to help.
Without a truthful, Bible-based value system, no society can be blessed and God said so. In any system, the only thing that is free is bait. Wonder who will understand that statement?
In other words, the ultimate brilliance of the Supreme Court is for them to come in and “wash their hands’ of the whole mess? What is this, the Pontius Court?
While this may ultimately lead to a good electoral outcome - a valid theory - this is still an awful ruling and damned dangerous.
See my post #4
The main problem was that it was forced through in the dark of the night with no real hearings etc etc ( remember those CSPAN public hearings OBAMA promised )where it could have been debated about its many facets ( The GOP should make a huge issue of this especially idiot Pelosi’s dumb statement )
I can see where Roberts would say don’t blame us for this
Yes, Congress has the power to tax but the mandate was NOT a tax until Roberts said it was. He made it fit the Constitution instead of rejecting it under the arguments the government and Ginsberg made: it was legal under the commerce clause.
He screwed us royally. Both with this ruling and for the future. We can’t stop you from refusing to eat broccoli but we can tax your decision not to do so. We can’t stop you from buying bullets but we can tax the hell outta them.
Enough of this crap.
We were pwned.
Roberts allowing us to call it what it is: The Death Panel Tax, is going to be more helpful in the long run...
One of the most pernicious arguments in support of Roberts decision goes something like this:
We voters must face the consequences of our actions.
The problem is, is that the 48% that didn’t vote for this will bear the brunt of it.
The middle class taxpayers (by and large) that didn’t vote for Obama or radical democrats are hosed by this.
The tea party came to stop this in 2010 at the ballot box.
The poor, minorities, illegals, rich-elite-white guilt voters voted for this.
The people who couldn’t pay before still won’t be able to pay and the rich can easily afford this or get medical care outside the country.
So the people who were not responsible for voting for this are the most screwed by it.
The 52% is forcing the 48% to pay for it and Roberts made sure they will have to.
That was a very incisive thread you linked
It may indeed be helpful in the long run, but that does not change the fact that this is an awful ruling and it is NOT the place of Supreme Court Justices to set up risky electoral victories by counter intuitive and anti Constitutional rulings.
“Beginning the downfall....”
I think not. I’ve been observing the nation’s downfall since the early 60’s and the list is too long to post....hippies, free love/sex, anti-war movement, educational system becoming controlled by Marxist thinking and brainwashing now two generations of students, Carter, Roe-v-Wade unleashing the abortion epidemic, Clinton making “a Lewinsky” a teen epidemic, Reagan’s signing all the Dem’s spending bills, Bush’s spending and now a Marxist president adored by the masses who while obviously destroying the nation does it with half the nation loving it. And this is less than 5% of what has happened....
No, the downfall started long ago. This is more like a major nail in the coffin than the beginning - and one of the last nails.......
I won’t be surprised if O is re-elected by the mindless masses who want everything for free......THAT will likely be the last nail in the coffin......
“...It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.”
As I see it, this is the problem right here. An ill-informed populace CHOSE to elect an altogether unqualified, unvetted individual who happens to have anti-American tendencies.
We are surrounded by those who no longer know, understand and aspire to be what it means to be an American. Does anyone else find himself stepping back and shaking his head in wonder at the idea that someone like Barack Obama could get elected? This notion was set off anew in my head the other day when I saw the video of the crowd of Muslims pelting a small group of Christians who were demonstrating in the Detroit area—and the police did nothing!
In the bible, it took very little time (about 2 generations - 40 years) for Israel to completely stray from the path God had laid out for them. They did not maintain their “walk of faith” with God, did not pass down the legacy promised to them by God. Instead they sought to become like the nations around them.
Are we any different here in America?
And what about the massive phone-in campaign leading up to the vote in Congress? Were the majority of American voters EVER in favor of Obamacare? I don’t think so.
Our republic is dead, we deserve this type of leadership, it is who we have become as a nation. We sat by as the left riped us apart and said nothing and did even less.
Now we will all be funding abortions, now we are all slaves to the collective.
Our talking haeds failed us by refusing to even look at the NBC issue and reporting on it.
Welcome to the United Socialist States of America, USSA.
I am still absorbing the opinions. I did give a sigh of relief that the Commerce Clause was circumscribed, for once. Ruling otherwise would have been a disaster.
I hate Obamacare, although it would probably benefit me personally, in some regards at least. But the opinion of Roberts was probably right. I had glossed right over the tax/penalty issue in light of the law’s clear statement that it was NOT a tax. But if it is a tax, calling it anything else does not change it. That is a valid rule of legal construction. I don’t like it but it is hard to argue against.
We are not in a doomsday situation. The country is NOT finished. Obama may want to destroy the economy piece by piece, but it is the people who have, and always have had, the power. This is a wake up call to those who care about the country. The presidential choice is not pretty, but, to me, clear. More important, however, are House and Senate elections, as well as local ones.
If we want legislative change, we must win the seats, and win decisively.
Unfortunately, that theory makes a lot of sense - given what was written.
roberts violated his oath of office.
The problem with all these rationales is that Roberts could have accomplished all of the same things by siding with the dissenters and writing his opinion. Instead, he went through convoluted reasoning to call that which wasn’t a tax, a tax. The Supreme Court now has precedent to call any requirement of the law a “tax”.
I just don’t know why he did it.
We must also get Obama out of the White House. He will act like a socialist dictator, regardless of what Congress does.
I have been watching this “downfall” since the early 60’s right along with you— over 50 years now. I don’t like the way things are going, but I am not of the same doomsday view as many here. I see this as yet another wake up call. For 50 plus years we have not wanted to wake up. Now is the time. I firmly believe that the majority of Americans believe in most conservative values. The alternative has to be explained to them. Now is the time.
It was an awful law that needs to be repealed, and don’t tell me repealing is out of the question. It isn’t.
Roberts is making a major effort to point that out to us.
That is a perversion of the Constitution. The Constitution is supposed to LIMIT the Federal Government. If they don’t have a specific power to tax something, they they should not be able to tax it!
Exactly. Roberts went out of his way to save this Frankenstein monster.
To support Roberts, you have to negate Scalia, Alito, Thomas and (unbelievably) Kennedy.
This needs to be repeated over and over
Roberts agreed with the “GOP” that is was in reality a tax
That’s what they were insisting during the debate
So what is the problem when he agrees with the GOP
Yesterday we got a double whammy when Obamacare was upheld and we learned the SCOTUS already has a liberal majority.
I’m with you!
That is the unintended consequence of what Roberts has done. The only way to say this isn't the consequence is to say that Congress has really always had this power. But has it? To me that's the crux of this thing.
I am not telling you that repeal is out of the question. Not at all. Doesn’t change the fact: the ruling was awful. Good may come out of it. And yes, the voters deserve the blame. Still, Roberts justified and rewarded blatant lying from the Bench of the SCOTUS and that is terrible, period, end of discussion.
Yep, you are 100% right. No getting around this fact. Period. Scalia says it. Levin says it. You say it. I say it.
When pundits were talking about how Roberts was tending to the courts legacy/image/what-have-you, I almost wanted to throw up. Comments like this make them sound like the shallow class, not the protectors and defenders of the Constitution, which they are sworn to be.
“I can’t know where I’m going unless I know where I’ve been.” This is the mantra of those in education who feel it is necessary to placate various ethnic groups with their own specialized sub-set of literature, history, etc. Well, that is exactly what has happened in American schools and universities—to the detriment of teaching AMERICAN LITERATURE, AMERICAN HISTORY—oh, I don’t know, THE CONSTITUTION....
America no longer knows where She’s going (or even where She should go) because America DOESN’T KNOW where She’s been. America used to be a good people, a virtuous people. No longer. De Toqueville spoke well when he said of Her, “America is great because America is good. America will cease to be great, when America ceases to be good. We are there. And now America has taken on the same tendencies as one of the 7 churches in the Book of the Revelation:
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
In just the same way Christ would “spue” Laodicea out of His mouth for their smug, self-serving, pseudo-religiosity, those who KNOW and LOVE what America once was would love nothing more than to “spue” this version of America out of their collective mouths and go back to the days when:
* our schools taught our children about God and Country
* our citizens were acquainted with their nations Constitution, its authority and its limitations
* people came to America to BE AMERICANS
* our nation had a collective sense of itself (not the balkanized view of itself shared by so many today)
* our leaders were men of courage not quislings of opportunity and expediency
There, I feel better...sad, but somewhat better...
Yeah, if he really believed in his own opinion, he would have said:
“Congress, re-write this thing and call it a tax. If you do, we will uphold it.”
Instead, he re-wrote it for them.