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Justice Roberts Pleads: "Lie To Me"
American Thinker ^ | 6-29-2012 | C. Edmund Wright

Posted on 06/29/2012 4:14:31 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright

..........Later in the day, however, the pundit elites started to furrow their brows and dust off their elbow patches -- and proceeded to try to convince us rubes that we had overreacted. They treated us to all kinds of contorted rationalizations and justifications full of pseudo-intellectual gobbledygook. We got this from Charles Krauthammer, George Will, Thomas Lifson, Erick Erickson -- among others. And while I really tried to like it -- and really tried to find solace or a silver lining -- there are just some basic, fundamental things I could not ignore. The bottom line is that John Roberts just told Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi figuratively to "lie to me...lie to me and I'll like it!" One can only wonder if he liked it as much as Chris Matthews liked the leg tingle or as much as David Brooks liked the sharp crease.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: roberts; supremecourt
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Bottom line? Roberts just rewarded those who denied Obama Care was a tax increase setting up a republic threatening precedent.
1 posted on 06/29/2012 4:14:34 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: C. Edmund Wright

I am wondering who perhaps unlawfully whispered in Justice Roberts ear to make this a tax.


2 posted on 06/29/2012 4:32:26 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Roberts did not just create some new vast taxing authority. He said it's always existed under the Constitution and his job is to enforce the Constitution, not change the tax laws.
"Members of this Court are vested with the authority to interpret the law; we possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments. Those decisions are entrusted to our Nation’s elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices."

3 posted on 06/29/2012 4:38:24 AM PDT by tentmaker (vote for John Galt)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Well the GOP and I would venture some posters on this site agreed with them at the time argued that it WAS in reality a TAX

Obama and the democrats argued that it wasn’t

Roberts said that the GOP was right and it is a tax and Obama and the democrats were lying or wrong

So he agreed with the GOP but that makes it constitutional but it is unconstitutional under the commerce act which the DEMS said it wasn’t

How is that for Irony

BUT who knows if every facet of the bill is constitutional
And Roberts essentially said it is not our job to read all 2500 or ever how many pages to decide that

As others have pointed out there will be challenges to individual aspects down the line which can’t be filed now since nobody has been affected yet

What a mess


4 posted on 06/29/2012 4:38:31 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: C. Edmund Wright
"The power to tax involves the power to destroy." Chief Justice John Marshall, McCulloch v. Maryland (1819) "Whuuut?" Chief Justice Roberts. He not only voted with the four "progressives," he failed to challenge "Butch" Kagan on her failure to recuse herself under Title 28 of the United States Code (the Judicial Code) which provides the standards for judicial disqualification or recusal. Section 455, captioned "Disqualification of justice, judge, or magistrate judge," provides that a federal judge "shall disqualify him (her) self in any proceeding in which his (her) impartiality might reasonably be questioned." Kagan could claim authorship credit for this travesty. If supreme court justices don't have to follow the law, why do We?
5 posted on 06/29/2012 4:40:48 AM PDT by tumblindice (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: tentmaker

With due respect, Antonin Scalia and Mark Levin disagree with you, and agree with me.


6 posted on 06/29/2012 4:40:48 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: C. Edmund Wright

It’s not hard to understand. Reading is hard.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/scocca/2012/06/roberts_health_care_opinion_commerce_clause_the_real_reason_the_chief_justice_upheld_obamacare_.single.html


7 posted on 06/29/2012 4:43:25 AM PDT by TheRhinelander
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To: C. Edmund Wright

The are unforeseen consequences to this. The police state is out of control. Not we have the IRS and you can bet they will eventually be awarded drones and be armed to the teeth. The Feds have never hesitated to murder those because of lack of payment to a tax.

Using the tax system to force American’s into absolute slavery was unexpected by all. This sets a terrifying precedent.


8 posted on 06/29/2012 4:44:04 AM PDT by formosa (Formosa)
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To: C. Edmund Wright; kingu
I just want to present Kingu's angle, without his or her permission whether he or she likes it or not: :)

It is not for the SCOTUS to set taxes, or even determine which taxes are just. That is the job of the people and their elected representatives. Congress hoped (AGAIN) that the SCOTUS would clean up their disaster, and yet again, the high court said ‘nope, this is your mess, have fun. Oh, and stop lying, it’s a tax.’

The SCOTUS has done a bang up job this week putting out good rulings.

McCain-Feingold was a horrible law, everyone thought that the second the SCOTUS gets it's hands on it, they'll tear it to shreds. Only they didn't. They turned around and said, ‘umm, sure, you can conduct your elections however you please...’ - Translation - Your volley is returned, have a nice day.

Eventually it was shredded by the SCOTUS, but the temporary deviation from the constitution was required to keep the SCOTUS from becoming the ultimate member of Congress. They can NOT do the job of Congress - theirs is the job of protecting the constitution.

In ObamaCare, in the rush to get ‘that last vote’, the liberals just walked square into it. Roberts finally found a limit to the commerce clause - a chain that up until now was infinite. And for a bit of icing, ObamaCare got called what it was, the biggest tax increase in history.

Taxation is in the power of Congress. They could (and have in the past) create top tax rates to seize virtually every penny someone earns. That is an undisputed right, and it isn't within the SCOTUS’ power to restrict that right. That is held by The People, through their representatives.

Can Congress tax your right to prayer? No. Tax your ability to vote? No. Tax your speech? No. But they sure can tax anything they aren't restricted from.

So, yeah, the liberals on the court couldn't wait to let the Chief Justice Roberts write the most important opinion in recent history, and possibly one which will limit the federal government for generations to come, so long as their political goal was kept in sight - that of keeping whatever the liberals want to do alive.

They got it; the ultimate atomic bomb in American politics - you just raised the taxes on the people who actually get up and vote. Good luck with that.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2900693/posts?page=14

Is SCUTUS Taxation on the fundamental right to life?

9 posted on 06/29/2012 4:48:33 AM PDT by txhurl (Scott Walker is my President.)
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To: TheRhinelander

What is your point? Is your point now that Slate is the go to source for analysis?


10 posted on 06/29/2012 4:48:39 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Justice Roberts, YOU are the individual in history who will be known for beginning the downfall of this nation. Oh, we'll have Obamacare all right. The ignorant masses will believe the lies and support those in power to keep it going -- that was the plan all along with dumbing down those participating in public education.

Those educated in that system know little or nothing about history, economics, politics or anything else nor do they care. Entertainment is all that matters (just like the Romans). We are headed for full-blown Socialism. Critics of Capitalism claim that it concentrates wealth and power in the hands of a few. In reality, it gives so many opportunity. Why in the world does everyone want to come here?

On the other hand, Socialism actually DOES concentrate power and wealth in the hands of a few. Look at the oligarchy that ran Russia and the leadership in Cuba for clear examples. Why do so many want to leave those places? The healthcare system in both Russia and Cuba is basically a two-tiered system which is what is being established here by Obamacare. The elites in government and those with lots of money (which will soon only be the elites in government or those in business blessed by them (Facists) will have specialized, high-level healthcare while the rest of us will wait in line for God knows how many days to get a cavity filled. Congress AND unions to my knowledge are exempt from many provisions of Obamacare (someone fill in the facts here).

I heard all of my life two basic statements: "People get the kind of government they deserve." and "Be careful what you wish for". If this nation will turn back to God and do what is right, then we can restore this nation back to its original glory. If people refuse to acknowledge God, then they're going to get what they deserve and the few who recognize that will not be able to help.

Without a truthful, Bible-based value system, no society can be blessed and God said so. In any system, the only thing that is free is bait. Wonder who will understand that statement?

11 posted on 06/29/2012 4:49:04 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: txhurl

In other words, the ultimate brilliance of the Supreme Court is for them to come in and “wash their hands’ of the whole mess? What is this, the Pontius Court?

While this may ultimately lead to a good electoral outcome - a valid theory - this is still an awful ruling and damned dangerous.


12 posted on 06/29/2012 4:52:20 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: txhurl

See my post #4


13 posted on 06/29/2012 4:54:04 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: C. Edmund Wright

The main problem was that it was forced through in the dark of the night with no real hearings etc etc ( remember those CSPAN public hearings OBAMA promised )where it could have been debated about its many facets ( The GOP should make a huge issue of this especially idiot Pelosi’s dumb statement )

I can see where Roberts would say don’t blame us for this


14 posted on 06/29/2012 5:00:05 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: formosa
Using the tax system to force American’s into absolute slavery was unexpected by all. This sets a terrifying precedent.

They already have that power --Remember the 90% tax bracket

as Roberts said you voted for these people
15 posted on 06/29/2012 5:02:45 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: txhurl

Yes, Congress has the power to tax but the mandate was NOT a tax until Roberts said it was. He made it fit the Constitution instead of rejecting it under the arguments the government and Ginsberg made: it was legal under the commerce clause.

He screwed us royally. Both with this ruling and for the future. We can’t stop you from refusing to eat broccoli but we can tax your decision not to do so. We can’t stop you from buying bullets but we can tax the hell outta them.

Enough of this crap.

We were pwned.


16 posted on 06/29/2012 5:03:03 AM PDT by Adder (Da bro has GOT to go!)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Lying is not new to Roberts ...He lied to get on the Supreme court when he masqueraded as a conservative.....another David Souter.
17 posted on 06/29/2012 5:05:49 AM PDT by ontap
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Roberts allowing us to call it what it is: The Death Panel Tax, is going to be more helpful in the long run...


18 posted on 06/29/2012 5:06:30 AM PDT by txhurl (Scott Walker is my President.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

One of the most pernicious arguments in support of Roberts decision goes something like this:

We voters must face the consequences of our actions.

The problem is, is that the 48% that didn’t vote for this will bear the brunt of it.

The middle class taxpayers (by and large) that didn’t vote for Obama or radical democrats are hosed by this.

The tea party came to stop this in 2010 at the ballot box.

The poor, minorities, illegals, rich-elite-white guilt voters voted for this.

The people who couldn’t pay before still won’t be able to pay and the rich can easily afford this or get medical care outside the country.

So the people who were not responsible for voting for this are the most screwed by it.

The 52% is forcing the 48% to pay for it and Roberts made sure they will have to.


19 posted on 06/29/2012 5:06:52 AM PDT by Smokeyblue
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To: TheRhinelander

That was a very incisive thread you linked


20 posted on 06/29/2012 5:07:41 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: txhurl

It may indeed be helpful in the long run, but that does not change the fact that this is an awful ruling and it is NOT the place of Supreme Court Justices to set up risky electoral victories by counter intuitive and anti Constitutional rulings.


21 posted on 06/29/2012 5:08:18 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

“Beginning the downfall....”

I think not. I’ve been observing the nation’s downfall since the early 60’s and the list is too long to post....hippies, free love/sex, anti-war movement, educational system becoming controlled by Marxist thinking and brainwashing now two generations of students, Carter, Roe-v-Wade unleashing the abortion epidemic, Clinton making “a Lewinsky” a teen epidemic, Reagan’s signing all the Dem’s spending bills, Bush’s spending and now a Marxist president adored by the masses who while obviously destroying the nation does it with half the nation loving it. And this is less than 5% of what has happened....

No, the downfall started long ago. This is more like a major nail in the coffin than the beginning - and one of the last nails.......

I won’t be surprised if O is re-elected by the mindless masses who want everything for free......THAT will likely be the last nail in the coffin......


22 posted on 06/29/2012 5:08:30 AM PDT by Arlis (.)
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To: tentmaker

“...It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.”

As I see it, this is the problem right here. An ill-informed populace CHOSE to elect an altogether unqualified, unvetted individual who happens to have anti-American tendencies.

We are surrounded by those who no longer know, understand and aspire to be what it means to be an American. Does anyone else find himself stepping back and shaking his head in wonder at the idea that someone like Barack Obama could get elected? This notion was set off anew in my head the other day when I saw the video of the crowd of Muslims pelting a small group of Christians who were demonstrating in the Detroit area—and the police did nothing!

In the bible, it took very little time (about 2 generations - 40 years) for Israel to completely stray from the path God had laid out for them. They did not maintain their “walk of faith” with God, did not pass down the legacy promised to them by God. Instead they sought to become like the nations around them.

Are we any different here in America?


23 posted on 06/29/2012 5:09:11 AM PDT by MarDav
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To: freekitty
I am wondering who perhaps unlawfully whispered in Justice Roberts ear to make this a tax.

Isn't that just what the GOP was arguing when it being debated and I would venture there were those on this site that wholeheartedly agreed at the time it was being voted on
24 posted on 06/29/2012 5:09:53 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Roberts is mentally impaired on anti-seizure medications (Tobramax?) which causes suicidal ideation. It's also rumored he is merely a plagiarist for his liberal law clerks who actually write the opinions.
25 posted on 06/29/2012 5:11:07 AM PDT by Doc Savage ("I've shot people I like a lot more,...for a lot less!" Raylan Givins)
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To: Smokeyblue

And what about the massive phone-in campaign leading up to the vote in Congress? Were the majority of American voters EVER in favor of Obamacare? I don’t think so.


26 posted on 06/29/2012 5:11:44 AM PDT by MarDav
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Our republic is dead, we deserve this type of leadership, it is who we have become as a nation. We sat by as the left riped us apart and said nothing and did even less.

Now we will all be funding abortions, now we are all slaves to the collective.

Our talking haeds failed us by refusing to even look at the NBC issue and reporting on it.

Welcome to the United Socialist States of America, USSA.


27 posted on 06/29/2012 5:11:48 AM PDT by stockpirate (No longer proud to be an American! SCOTUS is just as corrupt as congress.)
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To: uncbob

I am still absorbing the opinions. I did give a sigh of relief that the Commerce Clause was circumscribed, for once. Ruling otherwise would have been a disaster.

I hate Obamacare, although it would probably benefit me personally, in some regards at least. But the opinion of Roberts was probably right. I had glossed right over the tax/penalty issue in light of the law’s clear statement that it was NOT a tax. But if it is a tax, calling it anything else does not change it. That is a valid rule of legal construction. I don’t like it but it is hard to argue against.

We are not in a doomsday situation. The country is NOT finished. Obama may want to destroy the economy piece by piece, but it is the people who have, and always have had, the power. This is a wake up call to those who care about the country. The presidential choice is not pretty, but, to me, clear. More important, however, are House and Senate elections, as well as local ones.

If we want legislative change, we must win the seats, and win decisively.


28 posted on 06/29/2012 5:13:17 AM PDT by NCLaw441
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To: Doc Savage

Unfortunately, that theory makes a lot of sense - given what was written.


29 posted on 06/29/2012 5:13:41 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: tentmaker

roberts violated his oath of office.

LLS


30 posted on 06/29/2012 5:13:55 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: Adder
Yes, Congress has the power to tax but the mandate was NOT a tax until Roberts said it was.

Yeah well as I have been posting the GOP said it was and Roberts agreed with them
31 posted on 06/29/2012 5:14:07 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: C. Edmund Wright

The problem with all these rationales is that Roberts could have accomplished all of the same things by siding with the dissenters and writing his opinion. Instead, he went through convoluted reasoning to call that which wasn’t a tax, a tax. The Supreme Court now has precedent to call any requirement of the law a “tax”.


32 posted on 06/29/2012 5:15:01 AM PDT by popdonnelly (The first priority is get Obama out of the White House.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
I agree with you and Mark Levin also said, “Anyone that believes in this ruling by roberts is STARK RAVING MAD”.

LLS

33 posted on 06/29/2012 5:15:38 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: uncbob

I just don’t know why he did it.


34 posted on 06/29/2012 5:15:38 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Arlis
I think not. I’ve been observing the nation’s downfall since the early 60’s and the list is too long to post

Long before that

McCarthy was right
35 posted on 06/29/2012 5:16:25 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: NCLaw441

We must also get Obama out of the White House. He will act like a socialist dictator, regardless of what Congress does.


36 posted on 06/29/2012 5:18:22 AM PDT by popdonnelly (The first priority is get Obama out of the White House.)
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To: Arlis

I have been watching this “downfall” since the early 60’s right along with you— over 50 years now. I don’t like the way things are going, but I am not of the same doomsday view as many here. I see this as yet another wake up call. For 50 plus years we have not wanted to wake up. Now is the time. I firmly believe that the majority of Americans believe in most conservative values. The alternative has to be explained to them. Now is the time.


37 posted on 06/29/2012 5:18:22 AM PDT by NCLaw441
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To: C. Edmund Wright

It was an awful law that needs to be repealed, and don’t tell me repealing is out of the question. It isn’t.

Roberts is making a major effort to point that out to us.


38 posted on 06/29/2012 5:18:40 AM PDT by txhurl (Scott Walker is my President.)
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To: txhurl

That is a perversion of the Constitution. The Constitution is supposed to LIMIT the Federal Government. If they don’t have a specific power to tax something, they they should not be able to tax it!


39 posted on 06/29/2012 5:19:52 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: popdonnelly

Exactly. Roberts went out of his way to save this Frankenstein monster.

To support Roberts, you have to negate Scalia, Alito, Thomas and (unbelievably) Kennedy.


40 posted on 06/29/2012 5:20:14 AM PDT by Smokeyblue
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To: txhurl

This needs to be repeated over and over

Roberts agreed with the “GOP” that is was in reality a tax
That’s what they were insisting during the debate

So what is the problem when he agrees with the GOP


41 posted on 06/29/2012 5:21:53 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: ontap

Yesterday we got a double whammy when Obamacare was upheld and we learned the SCOTUS already has a liberal majority.


42 posted on 06/29/2012 5:24:35 AM PDT by Aquamarine (May the father of all mercies scatter light and not darkness in our paths ~ G. Washington)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

I’m with you!


43 posted on 06/29/2012 5:26:30 AM PDT by Halls (Jesus is my Lord and Savior)
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To: Adder
Exactly. By confusing a tax with a penalty, and given Congress's nearly unlimited power to tax, Roberts has given Congress a nearly unlimited power to penalize.

That is the unintended consequence of what Roberts has done. The only way to say this isn't the consequence is to say that Congress has really always had this power. But has it? To me that's the crux of this thing.

44 posted on 06/29/2012 5:27:17 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: uncbob
The people that wrote the bill and promoted it said it was not a tax... the bill says it is not a tax... roberts rewrote that bill making it a tax. It does not matter what you post. roberts violated his oath of office and killed Constitutional rule.

LLS

45 posted on 06/29/2012 5:27:43 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: txhurl

I am not telling you that repeal is out of the question. Not at all. Doesn’t change the fact: the ruling was awful. Good may come out of it. And yes, the voters deserve the blame. Still, Roberts justified and rewarded blatant lying from the Bench of the SCOTUS and that is terrible, period, end of discussion.


46 posted on 06/29/2012 5:28:40 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: LibLieSlayer
The people that wrote the bill and promoted it said it was not a tax... the bill says it is not a tax... roberts rewrote that bill making it a tax

Yep, you are 100% right. No getting around this fact. Period. Scalia says it. Levin says it. You say it. I say it.

47 posted on 06/29/2012 5:30:26 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: Doc Savage
Roberts is mentally impaired on anti-seizure medications

How about the GOP members of congress that were calling it a TAX at debate time --They on it too
48 posted on 06/29/2012 5:30:40 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: Adder

When pundits were talking about how Roberts was tending to the courts legacy/image/what-have-you, I almost wanted to throw up. Comments like this make them sound like the shallow class, not the protectors and defenders of the Constitution, which they are sworn to be.

“I can’t know where I’m going unless I know where I’ve been.” This is the mantra of those in education who feel it is necessary to placate various ethnic groups with their own specialized sub-set of literature, history, etc. Well, that is exactly what has happened in American schools and universities—to the detriment of teaching AMERICAN LITERATURE, AMERICAN HISTORY—oh, I don’t know, THE CONSTITUTION....

America no longer knows where She’s going (or even where She should go) because America DOESN’T KNOW where She’s been. America used to be a good people, a virtuous people. No longer. De Toqueville spoke well when he said of Her, “America is great because America is good. America will cease to be great, when America ceases to be good. We are there. And now America has taken on the same tendencies as one of the 7 churches in the Book of the Revelation:

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

In just the same way Christ would “spue” Laodicea out of His mouth for their smug, self-serving, pseudo-religiosity, those who KNOW and LOVE what America once was would love nothing more than to “spue” this version of America out of their collective mouths and go back to the days when:
* our schools taught our children about God and Country
* our citizens were acquainted with their nations Constitution, its authority and its limitations
* people came to America to BE AMERICANS
* our nation had a collective sense of itself (not the balkanized view of itself shared by so many today)
* our leaders were men of courage not quislings of opportunity and expediency

There, I feel better...sad, but somewhat better...


49 posted on 06/29/2012 5:31:59 AM PDT by MarDav
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To: Adder

Yeah, if he really believed in his own opinion, he would have said:

“Congress, re-write this thing and call it a tax. If you do, we will uphold it.”

Instead, he re-wrote it for them.


50 posted on 06/29/2012 5:33:24 AM PDT by privatedrive
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