Skip to comments.How to win the Obamacare argument with Obama supporters
Posted on 07/02/2012 11:35:14 AM PDT by Mountain Bike Vomit Carnage
Lew: ObamaCare Isn't A Tax, Is A "Penalty" So You Pay Your "Fair Share"
Chris Wallace, "FOX News Sunday" host: "This is a tax increase on the middle class of $27 billion over the next ten years."
Jack Lew, White House Chief of Staff: "No, what this is is this is a law that says if you can afford insurance and you choose not to buy it and you choose to have your health costs be a burden to others, you'll pay a penalty so that you'll pay our fair share. That's what this law says.
"For the 99% of people who buy insurance or who get it through the tax cuts that are in this Act, they're not going to be affected. You keep your insurance, you don't pay any kind of penalty."
"For the very few people who decide to be free riders and not have insurance, but still have their costs go into the system so the rest of us pay it, there's a penalty. It is not a burden on the middle class."
(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...
What are the perimeters?
What if the Obama voting base is told that they can afford insurance if they forgo their weaves?
No weaves, no peace.
Make no mistake, 0bama’s favorite groups will be deemed to not be able to afford insurance and it will be given to them.
Using Marx’s ideas to help the middle class is like using Hitler’s ideas to help the Jews.
Obamacare has supporters?
Seems to me the public breaks down into 2 categories:
1) People who absolutely loathe it and will never forgive Obama for shoving it down our throats
2) Dyed in the wool Socialists who are mad at Obama because it’s not Single Payer.
I don’t think anyone actually likes Nancy Pelosi’s Frankenstein Bill.
And they are going to raise Billions of dollars to pay for this on the backs of 1%, and that’s not the 1% they have targeted in the past.
another ‘waiver’ from taxes, AKA the progressive income tax.
75% of it will be paid for by people making between $25,000 and $75,000 per year. This is an ATTACK on the middle class.
The White House is admitting that it is indeed a tax, a tax on the Freedom to not buy insurance, a tax on those who know that they are healthy and will never need medical attention.
0bama openly stated he prefers policies like this to reparations.
It has to be that way for the math to work out. But the MSM would never tell the teeming masses.
The Coming ObamaTax Bomb
By allowing the 2003 tax cuts to retire, President Obama will be increasing the bottom rate from 10% to 15% ... more math here:
Raising the 10% bracket to 15% represents what percentage of increase? Hint: The correct answer is NOT 5%.
Raising the 35% bracket to 39% represents what percentage of increase? Hint: The correct answer is NOT 4%. Extra credit question: People in which tax bracket will see the largest percentage of increase in their taxes?
Extra extra credit question: People in which tax bracket will see the smallest percentage of increase in their taxes?
To those moving from the 35% to the 39% tax bracket...thats roughly an 11% increase in taxes.
To those moving from the 10% bracket to 15%, their taxes will be increased by a whopping 50%.
So the low-income people get their taxes raised even more when seen as a percentage. And the rich folks lose a higher magnitude of money, but the percentage compared to what they already make is lower.
Obamacare: Seven New Taxes on Citizens Earning Less than $250,000
I just tell them that SCOTUS has ruled that Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of the dems are liars. They swear up and down until they are blue in the ace, yet swore under oath before SCOTUS that it was a tax, but now they are back to saying it is not.
No matter how you slice it - they all lied - either to us or to SCOTUS doesn’t matter - they are liars and have been declared so by the highest court in the land.
What they comprehend is: 1. It is Bush's fault. 2.They all do it. 3. Democrats are for the little guy. Republicansare for the rich.
Past that --forget it.
One last one sometimes they will hit you with: "I get money back when I pay taxes."
Obama supporters are my personal enemy. I have no desire to convince a clapping seal of anything. They can KMA and meet my club!
If you've ever read up on Saul Alinski (Oboma taught it to SEIU members as a community organizer) , you know the radical left sees the middle class as the enemy. They have the numbers, the combined cash, and because of that - political power. They know they can't defeat them, so their goal is to absorb them. Their goal is to get as many of the middle class onto government programs as possible - and get them hooked. That's why they're destroying the economy and pleading with people to sign up for government manna. So far, they've got food stamps going out to 56% of the U.S. polulation.
As it stands right now, they have to pull all this off by November. They thought they'd have another 4 years to transform the U.S. from a free republic to a Marxist state.
It is impossible to sell socialism/communism the way it is so you have to lie about it. Lipstick on a pig. The dummies don’t know any difference. Tax/penalty, penalty/tax. It’s all the same to those who don’t pay taxes and penalties anyway.
“I dont think anyone actually likes Nancy Pelosis Frankenstein Bill.”
So does this make her the Bride of Frankenstein or the Mother of Frankenstein?
She looks like she could be both.
Waiting until November?
It’s all TOOO close for comfort.
We’ve been to the edge and stared into the abyss... this is NOT representative government!
When they say the bill didn’t include the term ‘tax’, tell them Obama’s lawyers used the “it’s a tax” argument in the Supreme Court to defend Obamacare (in addition to the Commerce Clause) & Roberts obliged them by saying “ok, you want a tax, it’s a tax”. It’s not that Roberts picked the ‘tax’ out of thin air .... it was defended as such & he has called their bluff (so to speak). Just to clarify, I’m not defending Roberts in any way - I hate the ruling, but it’s fun to beat libs over the head with the ObamaTax. They can’t avoid it, not matter how they squirm.
You pay $300 for your cable and cell phone and claim that you have nothing else.
Obama has decided that you need to use that money for your health insurance. You don't have a choice, no more cable, no more cell phone.
What percentage of the “free-loaders” are people who can afford health insurance, but don’t have it? I bet it is a small percentage overall. Who can afford heath insurance. My family pays $7,500 in insurance a year, and that doesn’t count what the insurance doesn’t cover, or co-pays. Can someone earning $20,000 a year afford that? How about a young family earning $30,000 a year? Is there going to be a sliding scale that limits the cost of health insurance according to ability to pay? Well of course there will be, and an army of gestapo agents auditing everyone to levy taxes, and attach our incomes and bank accounts. The end result is that we will still be paying for the same “free-loaders” we pay for now, and we will a vastly expanded government to control that.
Hear, hear! I don’t associate with liberals anymore and haven’t for years. I despise them and yes, they are the most ignorant people I have ever seen. Don’t waste a breath on them.
But if 0bama stays in office, he’ll make sure that WE take over paying for their cable TV and cell phones, so they don’t have to do without. Just to be “fair”. He’ll tout it in terms of human dignity, saving jobs, anything he can to put a spin on it of it being urgent and vital.
For all practical purposes it is single payer and they know it.
Businesses will give up dealing with all the grief of health insurance and pay the “fine” to not have to deal with it. That will turn it into single payer in short order.
You are so right. This current version is just a dust-over to try and please certain centrists. His true supporters know in due time, that this farce will not work as it stands. They’ll write it off and blame conservatives just to usher in the single-payer version they wanted all along.
Communists have run the same play book for years.
What is the difference between Obamacare and Single payer?
Paying the premium is only the start, what about insurance deductibles, copays on office visits, prescriptions, etc? I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed when they find out there will still be expenses even with insurance. By the way my premium increased 8.5% in June for the same policy because they added birth control (I am 62 yrs old) and no lifetime maximums. (I have a 5000.00 deductible, 40.00 office copay for primary and 75.00 copay for specialist, 150.00 to walk into an emergency room to mention a few things that aren’t free as some expect).
The libtards have made it their mission to create and attempt to sustain a "freeloader" class at the expense of hardworking taxpayers and now old bags like Pelosi have the rotten nerve to talk about "freeloaders?"
Even Nancy Pelosi slipped and almost called Obamatax a "tax." LOL
Here is your brain, Nancy. Now here is your brain on botox!
Help me out.
I was venting about obamacare (the usual stuff: govt intrusion into lives, sets a horrible precedent, most of it is being paid for by the middle class, it will result in less quality and choice, the deceptive way it was passed, the liberal friends that get waivers, ...)
...and a woman was saying:
I don’t care about all that. I’m just glad I’ll be getting birth-control medication for female issues (not birth control), and some other pre-existing condition covered.
She says she’ll “save” $850/year.
This is a woman that doesn’t care about politics....thinks nothing as bad as I state will happen.
I said (a) it will end up costing you more than that big picture, and (b) $850/yr is a small price to trade for individual choice.
But, what about the math? How could I have countered that better?
Report on health care spending shows government with 44% share
The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services released its annual National Health Expenditure Accounts report Wednesday. The report contains “the official estimates of total health care spending in the United States.” In 2009, health care spending in the U.S. totaled $2.486 trillion, up 4% versus 2008. That equates to 17.6% of our nation’s Gross Domestic Product and $8,086 per person.
Federal, state and local governments disbursed nearly 44%, or $1.083 trillion, of all health care dollars spent while the amount paid directly by businesses and households was 21% and 28%, respectively.
In light of this data, liberals fussing about the various efforts underway to repeal ObamaCare are ignoring a few elephants in the room (and I don’t mean Republicans).
For one, the market that Democrats argue is the most broken is the one in which government meddles most. By its own account, the government already accounts for nearly half of the nation’s health care spending, even before ObamaCare takes effect. With that much government intervention, is it any wonder why the healthcare system seems in need of repair? All of that meddling has crowded out market forces and mucked-up this sector like no other in our economy. But what are the Democrats prescribing? An even bigger dose of what’s ailing us.
Second, word is that Democrats are preparing to parade out a long line of victims, ones who will claim to be personally devastated if ObamaCare is repealed. Some stories will be compelling, no doubt, and all will be anecdotal, but leaving that aside, won’t each of them, ipso facto, represent evidence that existing government-run healthcare schemes and programs — ones touted with great fanfare upon implementation — have failed? That is, what does it say about the massive government healthcare programs that already exist, like Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, the VA, and others?
Third, some say 17% or thereabouts of GDP is too much to spend on health care. Other countries’ lower percentages are cited to support this contention. I don’t know what the “right” percentage is but proffer that as long as spending on health care is between a consenting consumer and provider, what does it matter how much is spent (as long as I’m not coerced to pay someone else’s tab, and currently and admittedly, I am). Also, isn’t health care a “good” thing usually and that a sizable amount spent on it is an indicator of a society’s quality of life?
Michael F. Cannon at Cato Institute noted a few interesting aspects about the recently issued report. The government reclassified some “service and payer categories” since last year’s report was issued. As a result, the report issued yesterday shows the percent of government-paid health expenditures in 2008 as 41.2% rather than 47.3% shown in the 2008 report. Cannon wonders whether that key figure got too close to — or over — 50% in 2009, provoking a retroactive change in presentation. Cannon also noted that while total health care spending grew by 4 percent overall in 2009, “government health spending grew by 9.9 percent and private spending shrank by 0.2 percent.” Cannon quips, “And the feds are the guys who say they’re going to control health care costs!”