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Could gay marriage debate drive young Christians from church?
MSNBC ^ | July 3 2012 | Becky Bratu

Posted on 07/03/2012 4:26:09 AM PDT by scottjewell

As the battle over gay marriage heats up in this election year, one evangelical Christian writer is calling for a truce, fearing that the outspoken opposition to gay marriage among some church leaders could alienate an entire generation of religious youth. . . . A 2011 survey by the Public Religion Research Institute shows the generation gap between young Christians and their elders is large, with 44 percent of white evangelicals aged 18-29 in support of marriage equality compared to only 12 percent of those 65 and older. According to the same survey, nearly 70 percent of young Christians also agree that religious groups are alienating young people by being too judgmental about gay and lesbian issues. “For young Christians, having gay and lesbian friends is just a part of our life,” Held Evans said. “It’s just really hard for us to see them as mere issues to debate, because we’re talking about our friends here.”

(Excerpt) Read more at usnews.msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: christians; gaymarriage; genx; geny; homosexualagenda; sodomhusseinobama
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"To Held Evans, American churches’ attitude toward gay rights will play an important role in the retention of young Christians. In an article she wrote following North Carolina’s recent vote to ban gay marriage, Held Evans points to data mentioned in David Kinnaman’s book You Lost Me, which shows that 59 percent of teens who were raised Christian abandon the church when they become adults. One of the main reasons, the article says, is the church’s attitude toward gay rights." __________________________________ What they fail to mention is that public school indoctrination and media hype have heavily influenced this stance on less than 2 % of the population. This has not been a natural evolution, but a forced one. It has happened alongside a feminist and divorce agenda as well.
1 posted on 07/03/2012 4:26:21 AM PDT by scottjewell
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To: scottjewell

I don’t think an anti gay marriage stance would drive young Christians from the church, but it may drive young “church attenders” away.

I’ve been noticing, for the last 20-30 years, that more and more people are getting off the fence and taking a stand for one side or the other. I wondered why prophesy seems to speak of both a great falling away as well as revival in the end times. There may be fewer church attendees, but more of them will be “real” Christians and not cultural ones or people “hedging their bets” regarding the “turn or burn” message.


2 posted on 07/03/2012 4:30:56 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: scottjewell

1st John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Romans 1

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

These are NEW TESTAMENT passages.


3 posted on 07/03/2012 4:47:09 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: cuban leaf

Bingo. It may really thin the ranks weeding out people who like to be seen going to church as opposed to actually following the teachings of Christ.


4 posted on 07/03/2012 4:54:26 AM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: cuban leaf

Many churches have done a really bad job of defining Christ’s central message “I love you enough to die for you and nothing you do or can do will stop me loving you.” If we truly follow Jesus, we despise the sin, but love the sinner. When it comes to the whole spectrum of homo behavior, we have stated our positions poorly on the despising the sin side and not really even whispered that we love those that are broken in that way. There is enough condemnation to go around in the secular world without the church getting involved. There is also truly little love being showed from people that are commanded to love EVERYONE, especially their ‘enemies’.

Here’s another thing - it is definitely not helping that condemnation of homo marriage comes from churches with a significant number of their male members having their own issues with porn. Jesus was not lying when he told us to deal with the log in our own eye before dealing with the speck in the eye of our brother. Matthew 5:28 sets a pretty high bar and most men fall short.

Personally, I avoid wasting my time hanging out with a bunch of hypocrites or those that ignore passages in God’s Word, so I cannot blame the youth for leaving churches.


5 posted on 07/03/2012 4:56:52 AM PDT by L,TOWM (Write in Chuck Norris for POTUS and tell the power brokers to FOAD.)
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To: cuban leaf

Excellent observation.


6 posted on 07/03/2012 4:57:31 AM PDT by scottjewell
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To: scottjewell
"Whoever wants to know what the serious objections to Christianity are should ask us. The unbeliever makes only stupid objections." (#2,017)

"An irreligious society cannot endure the truth of the human condition. It prefers a lie, no matter how idiotic it may be." (#1,139)>

- Don Colacho

7 posted on 07/03/2012 4:58:34 AM PDT by Prospero
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To: L,TOWM

“Here’s another thing - it is definitely not helping that condemnation of homo marriage comes from churches with a significant number of their male members having their own issues with porn. Jesus was not lying when he told us to deal with the log in our own eye before dealing with the speck in the eye of our brother. Matthew 5:28 sets a pretty high bar and most men fall short.”
______________________________________

I agree; things like porn and adultery, not to mention high divorce rate, make “Christians” feel they cannot afford to judge, or it is safer not to judge ....


8 posted on 07/03/2012 5:01:35 AM PDT by scottjewell
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To: scottjewell

Sheep and the goats


9 posted on 07/03/2012 5:04:21 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: Prospero

Thanks for these aphorisms; they are badly needed.


10 posted on 07/03/2012 5:05:04 AM PDT by scottjewell
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To: scottjewell

Where would the Homosexuals be today if it weren’t for us “breeders” who, (by being forced by Government), gave billions of dollars (through taxes) to fund research to find a cure for AIDS - so that the Homosexuals may continue with their deviant lifestyle...


11 posted on 07/03/2012 5:05:08 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Greed + Envy = Liberalism)
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To: scottjewell
I don't understand the fear of "losing a generation" because you lied to them. The "mainline" protestant churches, Episcopal, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. have been trying to become more "culturally relevant" for decades.
As a result of those efforts, their numbers continue to dwindle. Deep inside people is a desire for TRUTH, raw unadulterated TRUTH. All of the efforts to be culturally relevant are seen as just another lie.

The Church is not a numbers game, where the goal is to increase the number of butts in the pews. The Church should be about the business of speaking the TRUTH and LIGHT into darkness.
12 posted on 07/03/2012 5:06:48 AM PDT by TxAg1981
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To: Cowboy Bob

True indeed.


13 posted on 07/03/2012 5:06:53 AM PDT by scottjewell
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To: scottjewell
typically the wrong question from the libtard media.....a backhanded swipe to question your faith
14 posted on 07/03/2012 5:08:57 AM PDT by Doogle (((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated)))
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To: TxAg1981

Right you are: The “numbers game” seemed to begin in the 1970s, wherein many churches began to try and work feminism and all sorts of nonsense into their teachings, knowing that the “truth and light” would cost them numbers. Had they focused on the truth rather than numbers, they would have succeeded in creating a minority, but a sizeable and significant one, which would have constituted a robust realm of dissent from the general culture. Instead, we have a mess. One hardly knows what it means to be “Christian” anymore: Some churches support gay marriage and just about anything that comes their way.


15 posted on 07/03/2012 5:10:55 AM PDT by scottjewell
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To: scottjewell

Who the Hell wants to go anywhere that you can be subjected to “David and Barry” or “Lizzy and Letty” rubbing shoulders and holding hands?


16 posted on 07/03/2012 5:12:34 AM PDT by WellyP (question!)
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To: scottjewell
From te article: "Even young Christians who think that gay relationships are not God’s design, a lot of them will still say ‘but I think it should be legal for gay people to get married, because this is America,’

From the bible: Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin condemns any people Proverbs 14:34 NIV

These young Christians really have no idea about the Christian foundations of this country.

17 posted on 07/03/2012 5:15:26 AM PDT by tbpiper
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To: scottjewell

70 percent of young Christians also agree that religious groups are alienating young people by being too judgmental about gay and lesbian issues

70% young Christians aren’t Christians if they hold that homosexuality is ok.


18 posted on 07/03/2012 5:16:17 AM PDT by buck61
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To: buck61

Yes, and they have underestimated how much the agenda in the public schools and the whole indoctrination by the media have increased confusion and have caused this moral mush culture.


19 posted on 07/03/2012 5:30:38 AM PDT by scottjewell
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To: scottjewell

fearing that the outspoken opposition to gay marriage among some church leaders could alienate an entire generation of religious youth. . .

Seems like the elders didn’t teach the youngsters very well. The yoots can’t be too religious if they do not heed the lesson of Sodom and Gamorrah.


20 posted on 07/03/2012 5:34:37 AM PDT by Adder (Da bro has GOT to go!)
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To: scottjewell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Religion_Research_Institute

Public Religion Research Institute (note to self: who are these people?), teaming up with the press and politicians, to figure us out and control us.


21 posted on 07/03/2012 5:36:37 AM PDT by Bluebird Singing
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To: scottjewell
44 percent of white evangelicals aged 18-29 in support of marriage equality compared to only 12 percent of those 65 and older.

Then, that exposes them as "evangelicals" in the Jim Wallis mold.

It's impossible to be a follower of Christ and tolerant of homosexual marriage at the same time.

22 posted on 07/03/2012 5:51:55 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Buying Drain-O requires photo I.D... yet voting doesn't???)
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To: cuban leaf
There may be fewer church attendees, but more of them will be “real” Christians and not cultural ones or people “hedging their bets” regarding the “turn or burn” message.

I attend a community church in Yorktown, VA, at which the pastor regularly takes strong stands against homosexuality. We've had 300% growth in the past four years, many of whom are young people in their 20s. It's very encouraging!

Of course, the qualifier... this area of VA is very conservative.

23 posted on 07/03/2012 5:55:26 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Buying Drain-O requires photo I.D... yet voting doesn't???)
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To: scottjewell

Anyone leaving a church over this already had one foot out the door to begin with. Let them go, and pray for them.


24 posted on 07/03/2012 5:58:46 AM PDT by montag813
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To: buck61
70 percent of young Christians also agree that religious groups are alienating young people by being too judgmental about gay and lesbian issues

70% young Christians aren’t Christians if they hold that homosexuality is ok.

SOCCOL!! This is exactly correct.

25 posted on 07/03/2012 6:00:37 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: scottjewell
The real question: Could rewriting scripture to pretend that gay "marriage" is okay drive young Christians from church?

If the Bible is merely a set of club bylaws and can be rewritten to suit the current fad among younger or newer members, then why bother following all those rules that ask us to do hard things the hard way? Why not just go with a club that allows stealing (if you don't get caught), that celebrates adultery (if the partner is "hot"), and that allows us to force others to help the sick and the poor so we don't have to do it with our own time and money. In other words, why not just become Democrats if the Bible is only a handbook that can be revised by ordinary people?

26 posted on 07/03/2012 6:01:21 AM PDT by Pollster1 (A boy becomes a man when a man is needed - John Steinbeck)
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To: scottjewell

As the battle over imperial sacrifices heats up in this election year, one Christian writer is calling for a truce, fearing that the outspoken opposition to pagan rituals among some church leaders could alienate an entire generation of Romans.


27 posted on 07/03/2012 6:02:00 AM PDT by jtal (Runnin' a World in Need with White Folks' Greed - since 1492)
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To: John O

Threshing time.

The issue of homosexuality is as much of a winnowing fork as Sarah Palin was.

Both are being used to separate the wheat and the chaff.


28 posted on 07/03/2012 6:06:51 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: scottjewell

Son #3 left the church we were attending and had attended almost all my life because he felt they were too liberal. He said he was more confused about his faith after going through confirmation class. A friend took him to non-denomination evangelical church where is now the assistant pastor.

While the rest of us still belong to the old church, we really haven’t attended since the sermon on global warming and dying polar bears. That one did if for my husband and I. We attend my son’s church occasionally, but they are really energetic :-) Wish we could find a new home. I didn’t change, but my church sure did.


29 posted on 07/03/2012 6:08:35 AM PDT by KosmicKitty (WARNING: Hormonally crazed woman ahead!!)
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To: ScottinVA

“evangelicals” has been redefined and self defined.

Those of a biblical worldview, ie, those who not only believe IN Jesus, but BELIEVE Jesus, are His. Others will hear “depart from Me”.


30 posted on 07/03/2012 6:08:42 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: scottjewell
44 percent of white evangelicals aged 18-29 in support of marriage equality

I guess it is too much to ask to report the news without taking sides.

Maybe it should run like this:

44 percent of white evangelicals aged 18-29 in support of government encouragement for Sodomy, a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.

31 posted on 07/03/2012 6:09:01 AM PDT by jtal (Runnin' a World in Need with White Folks' Greed - since 1492)
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To: scottjewell

Nah... the first thing to remember about God is that He is Holy and will not tolerate sin. In His great love He provided a way for our sins to be removed from us through Jesus. So... we’ve all sinned and need His forgiveness and grace. Homosexuals are refusing to acknowledge that they sin and are even demanding that the church recognize their sinful unions as equivalent to marriage. It’s “unrepented” sin that makes people uncomfortable in church...


32 posted on 07/03/2012 6:10:46 AM PDT by Sweet Hour of Prayer
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To: jtal

Nonbelievers insist that uncompromising morality is bad for religion. Beliievers practice moral absolutes as the cornerstone of their faith.


33 posted on 07/03/2012 6:22:10 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (The day liberals grow up is the day tyranny ends.)
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To: jtal

Yes, & they report it as though it had a natural and organic evolution. They fail to state that indoctrination - ruthless and relentless - was the vehicle used to get such poll numbers.


34 posted on 07/03/2012 6:23:11 AM PDT by scottjewell
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To: scottjewell

“marriage equality”
What equality? Perverted homosexuals cannot reproduce. Equality means the ability to do the same as others.


35 posted on 07/03/2012 6:45:49 AM PDT by DMG2FUN
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To: L,TOWM

“Personally, I avoid wasting my time hanging out with a bunch of hypocrites or those that ignore passages in God’s Word,”

So you choose to ignore the passage in God’s Word which instructs us to worship with others?

Church’s are made up of people and as you stated, people are not perfect. I agree that people don’t treat gays all that well. However, that is pretty much true of anyone who sets themselves apart from society in any way.

BTW, loving someone does not mean approving their behavior or allowing them to do things which place other people at a higher risk.


36 posted on 07/03/2012 6:47:07 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: buck61
70% young Christians aren’t Christians if they hold that homosexuality is ok.

Agreed 100%.

Between our own kids and their spouses, we have 7 of them in their 20's. All are strong Christians. All know that homosexuality is awful in God's eye - as is sex outside of marriage. They can be quite vocal about it. I am so thankful that they have heard this as much in church as they have from their parents (not their extended family however).

Instead of alienating the homsexuals and those living together without marriage, I believe the Lord is equipping them to minister to them and give them the Truth in a much better way than my generation can, for the most part.

37 posted on 07/03/2012 6:52:27 AM PDT by lupie
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To: scottjewell; TxAg1981

To be Christian means to accept Jesus as your savior. It doesn’t mean you are Baptist, Presbyterian or Catholic.

“the numbers game” is important for several reasons. First it is important for churches to be financially stable which requires money which in turn requires people in the pews.

Church doesn’t have to be boring and music is not of the devil.

Sure anything can be taken too far, thats true of most anything. Winning souls for Jesus is really all thats important.


38 posted on 07/03/2012 6:52:35 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: DMG2FUN; scottjewell

We already have marriage equality. Any single man can marry any single woman. Likewise any single woman can marry any single man.

Whats unequal about that?


39 posted on 07/03/2012 6:55:34 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: scottjewell

No worries.

The coffee bars, the widescreen TVs in the chancel, the Yanni hymnals and the Bible Via IPhone classes should bring’em right back into the fold.


40 posted on 07/03/2012 6:58:13 AM PDT by moovova
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What I have seen in discussions between youth and pastors is this: Many teens today have been persuaded that the most awful thing you could possibly do is to judge, to not respect the opinions and freedoms of others. For them, this has become the only sin. So there is no morality there, because you don’t dare presume to judge or to ask anyone to restrain themselves in any way. So right there, it is pointless even to have any kind of religion or Christianity, unless it fits in with this “mush culture” they have all been spoon fed. They have been deprived of any moral compass. And when someone tries to give them one, they have been taught that its all wrong.


41 posted on 07/03/2012 7:02:17 AM PDT by scottjewell
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To: scottjewell

“So there is no morality there”

Whose fault is that?

My church is far from perfect but I know there are some damn fine kids there. Yes our church has all the modern conveniences like inside bathrooms, music, electricity and so forth. So far its the adults who take the time to teach the kids that have made the difference.


42 posted on 07/03/2012 7:21:50 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: scottjewell

You mean like that whole premarital sex thing a few decades ago was supposed to do?


43 posted on 07/03/2012 7:36:25 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Rome didn't fall in a day, either.)
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To: scottjewell; cuban leaf; L,TOWM; driftdiver; lupie; TxAg1981; Pollster1
I am a male, in my mid 20's. Very, very few of my generation care about gays/marriage etc. I would say 80-85% and that may be a low figure. It's just not an issue to us and of no real importance.

TBH, what rustles our jimmies and aggravates us is what our parents and grandparents did to this country and what we are going to inherit i.e. debt and high taxes and more government in our lives(less freedom), loss of jobs etc. This is the area we are conservative in. My gf is in the medical field....and works with many gays..does not bother her but Obamacare sure does. Might sound selfish but we are the ones that is going to pay for this financially not most of you. You guys had the gravy train...... We are ticked off we will probably never get SS (Though paying into it-my gf has a 6 figure income and I'm close) and we will not be able to retire at the age most of you have.

Face it, the gay issue has been lost and if conservatives keep pushing this the Republican party and conservative movement is lost with the younger generation. No, we are not necessarily agreeing with gays and condoning it..just that we think there are way more important issues to worry about.

This anti gay push is a major turn off to younger people as we think there are way more important issues out there. I'll probably be flamed over this but just giving the facts.

44 posted on 07/03/2012 7:53:23 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence - Christopher Hitchen)
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To: driftdiver

Yes, that is exactly what’s needed. I was basically framing it from the general public purview of youth within public schools and the prevailing mentality - in an attempt to show why the polls may read as they do. Of course there are still good adults teaching fine kids.


45 posted on 07/03/2012 7:59:44 AM PDT by scottjewell
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To: trailhkr1

I don’t know how to begin to respond to this. You cannot seriously claim that if all can be well financially and fiscally ( and I do not blame youth one bit for their anger and their cynicism) then the social and moral fabric does not matter?
(It sounds like distraction which has been hoisted on your generation, I know. I am nothing if not sympathetic on that score. )

The GOP actually has strong incentive and a real advantage over this SSM issue, but choose to throw it away.


46 posted on 07/03/2012 8:03:02 AM PDT by scottjewell
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To: scottjewell

Public schools are the church of secularism.


47 posted on 07/03/2012 8:09:49 AM PDT by B Knotts (Just another Tenther)
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To: trailhkr1

This is not about politics, but about God’s Truth. His Truth, is unchanging. Politics will always be there. Each generation will have their own bad things to deal with. That has always been, and always will be until Christ returns. The only true peace, the only way to truly not to worry about whatever the current issue is to be set free by Christ Jesus.

The gravy train, as you call it, is not being able to retire at a certain age, or having a nice income. Instead, it is about a peace in your heart and your soul and your mind that is a sure constant, no matter what the economics or politics of the day. Standing for God’s Truth and proclaiming it IS the most important issues. All other issues will fade away, but the Word of the Lord stands forever.


48 posted on 07/03/2012 8:15:06 AM PDT by lupie
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To: trailhkr1

This is not about politics, but about God’s Truth. His Truth, is unchanging. Politics will always be there. Each generation will have their own bad things to deal with. That has always been, and always will be until Christ returns. The only true peace, the only way to truly not to worry about whatever the current issue is to be set free by Christ Jesus.

The gravy train, as you call it, is not being able to retire at a certain age, or having a nice income. Instead, it is about a peace in your heart and your soul and your mind that is a sure constant, no matter what the economics or politics of the day. Standing for God’s Truth and proclaiming it IS the most important issues. All other issues will fade away, but the Word of the Lord stands forever.


49 posted on 07/03/2012 8:15:24 AM PDT by lupie
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To: scottjewell

MSNBC using the propaganda goebles words of “equality” instead of the accurate homosexual based marriage.

There is no equal to an unequivalent act.

this is just the homosexuals of msnbc wishful thinking.


50 posted on 07/03/2012 8:20:50 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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