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McChrystal: Time to bring back the draft
Foreign Policy ^ | July 3, 2012 | Josh Rogin

Posted on 07/05/2012 11:51:33 AM PDT by Timber Rattler

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To: Tallguy

I was at civil war reenactment thing in Charleston recently and one of the participants went through that very thing.

He was a marine artie along with a lot of his unit got to do foot patrols and the like.


101 posted on 07/05/2012 1:48:27 PM PDT by wally_bert (It's sheer elegance in its simplicity! - The Middleman)
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To: kabar

The information by state is more useful than the region grouping. WA, OR, AK and HI are all overrepresented individually, then they are thrown in with low ratio CA to make an “underrepresented” Pacific region. Doesn’t make sense.


102 posted on 07/05/2012 1:51:06 PM PDT by GATOR NAVY
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To: Arrowhead1952

Leatherneck: “We got a saying in the Marines. The most dangerous thing in the world is a green officer in the dark with a book of matches.

Wet Suit: “Amen to that brother. Amen to that.”

http://gijoe.wikia.com/wiki/The_Most_Dangerous_Thing_in_the_World


103 posted on 07/05/2012 1:52:51 PM PDT by wally_bert (It's sheer elegance in its simplicity! - The Middleman)
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To: Timber Rattler

Couldn’t agree more !

A free country doesn’t need a slave army.

VOLUNTARY US Army vet.


104 posted on 07/05/2012 1:53:18 PM PDT by jimt (Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.)
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To: Timber Rattler
McChrystal: Time to bring back the draft

FIRST - Investigate whether one Baraq Hussein 0bama registered as required by law.

105 posted on 07/05/2012 1:55:26 PM PDT by The Sons of Liberty ("Get that bastard out of MY White House!")
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To: Arrowhead1952
I agree with both statements.

Before you agree..................... go get your thinking cap.

Your idea of national service (in the military) and our federal governments ideas are quite different. The military is letting people go, what do you think they would have all those extra people doing?

106 posted on 07/05/2012 1:59:43 PM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( (Lord, save me from some conservatives, they don't understand history any better than liberals.))
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To: Timber Rattler

Giving politician and generals easy access to manpower makes war MORE probable.


107 posted on 07/05/2012 2:01:33 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Blue Ink

Here’s the universal draft they have planned. 1 million get put in the military. 8 million get shipped to Federal make work and indoctrination camps.


108 posted on 07/05/2012 2:04:59 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Timber Rattler

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2270473&page=1


109 posted on 07/05/2012 2:07:23 PM PDT by Svartalfiar
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To: jrd

“I think when you graduate from high school everyone should enter the military and spend at least two years.”

Military service is an honor not an endenture, if you don’t want to serve, I don’t want you to.

“I also thing that all officers should have to serve time as and enlisted person.”

Do you think that would make the military more fair?


110 posted on 07/05/2012 2:07:23 PM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: Timber Rattler
Remember at the time all the DoD rhetoric about how "boots on the ground" wouldn't be needed since technology was the end all-be all of future warfighting.

And "they" were right when it came to taking down Afghanistan & Iraq. Of course when you end up occupying both countries for ten years, then you run into a real need for the infantry that you don't have.

111 posted on 07/05/2012 2:11:47 PM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

“I don’t think the state has the right to take a couple year of your life absent a true national emergency. The idea that we all inherently owe something to the government is very distateful to me.”

First, thanks for your service and Semper Fi.

Second, I want to be clear that my feeling is that every citizen owes fealty and service (if required) to his NATION, not to his government. I see a distinct difference.


112 posted on 07/05/2012 2:16:55 PM PDT by jagusafr
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To: jrd
are they some how better?

Better than what?

113 posted on 07/05/2012 2:22:56 PM PDT by xone
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To: kabar

At the height of the daytime air war over Europe. American airmen deaths dwarfed Iwo Jimas entire USMC losses. They were staggering - sometimes thousands per month.


114 posted on 07/05/2012 2:23:28 PM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: jrd
make it four then

Why not eight? That way since they are stuck the malcontents among them might decide if they are in for eight they might as well do what the are supposed to do. Four or eight, we would have a big if not necessarily competent military with compulsory service, just like the ChiComs.

115 posted on 07/05/2012 2:25:57 PM PDT by xone
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To: Timber Rattler

We’ll at least find out how many illegals are in the country by the sounds of the stampede south....


116 posted on 07/05/2012 2:29:27 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: jagusafr
Second, I want to be clear that my feeling is that every citizen owes fealty and service (if required) to his NATION, not to his government. I see a distinct difference.

I use to think that way, but not any more. This nation is so fractured now, that there are very large population blocks that couldn't be more separated by culture, ideology, citizen responsibility, and political warfare, that I will never feel like we are one nation ever again. Probably, at least, until I die. Consequently, I think every individual will have to decide whether what they are being asked, is indeed service to the nation, or simply a furtherance of those goals held by the administration at hand. I think what you are referring to, are the days of old where we had at least a few common purposes and goals. Those days are gone, unfortunately.
117 posted on 07/05/2012 2:32:59 PM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: drypowder

I appreciate every veteran and service member’s service to his country.

With that being said, I don’t want to be forced to do ANYTHING. Even dying for your country, should be a choice. And I especially want my son to have the same Liberty.


118 posted on 07/05/2012 2:32:59 PM PDT by skinndogNN
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To: jagusafr

Skin?

The people don’t decide if to go to war, power brokers and politicians do. We don’t have elected reprentatives, we elected authorities that are controlled strictly by those with money and power. Don’t believe that? Then watch 25,000 of your fellow citizens write your congresscritter and ask for something...then watch a power broker hand him a $25,000 bribe, I mean, ‘campaign contribution’, at lunch to ignore your demands.

I see it not as war is discussed carefully because everyone has skin in the game during a draft but that if we are an all volunteer force then no one has to enlist when the power brokers demand it. That is the real throttle to war.


119 posted on 07/05/2012 2:41:38 PM PDT by CodeToad (uired to vote for a treaty.)
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To: robowombat
First post to hint at what I think is happening. Military service is a “calling”. Those who answer the call are most unlikely to do anything against their country. Those who are forced to serve, will just do what they are ordered without concern of it's morality or legality.

I have read many times on this forum, that our “all volunteer” force would never fire upon U.S. civilians, nor would they go door to door confiscating legally owned firearms. Do we feel the same level of confidence when the forces in question are conscripted?.

I for one, do not.

120 posted on 07/05/2012 2:44:54 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: jagusafr
Second, I want to be clear that my feeling is that every citizen owes fealty and service (if required) to his NATION, not to his government. I see a distinct difference.

How so?

Do you mean some attachment to the land, like burial grounds of our ancestors, or to my fellow citizens, with whom I share a common culture, moral philosophy, and history?

121 posted on 07/05/2012 2:46:05 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Jeff Chandler; 2ndDivisionVet
Blacks and Hispanics are underrepresented in the combat arms, especially in the special forces units and always have been.

My understanding is that this is true for blacks, but that Special Forces are heavily White Southerner and Hispanic.

2DV- have you ever been to the 7th Gp area? There are quite a few Hispanics assigned there.

Jeff- Ha-ha! There are a lot of Yankees in Special Forces, city-folk also. Blacks have generally not been attracted to SF for a variety of reasons. Mostly, they come from an inner-city background and do not like the idea of humping a ruck. There are those who do make it through training and into Group, but they are the exception.

122 posted on 07/05/2012 2:47:34 PM PDT by Sarajevo (Don't think for a minute that this excuse for a President has America's best interest in mind.)
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To: Blue Ink
I think a universal draft is a great idea.

Really??????

I catch cold in drafty places.............

123 posted on 07/05/2012 2:50:03 PM PDT by Sarajevo (Don't think for a minute that this excuse for a President has America's best interest in mind.)
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To: Timber Rattler

McChrystal is an a$$clown. He hampered our troops ability to close with and destroy the enemy in Afghanistan. It’s no wonder he was fired.


124 posted on 07/05/2012 2:59:58 PM PDT by Sarajevo (Don't think for a minute that this excuse for a President has America's best interest in mind.)
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To: wally_bert
The way I was told it, was the most dangerous thing in the world is a butter bar Lt. trying to impress the command. And “Mustangs” tend to make the best officers. Audie Murphy,Chesty Puller and Herman Hanneken were Mustangs. Not that there aren't good West Pointers and Annapolis grads. Or for that matter, there are some good 90 day wonders. But it wouldn't hurt for an officer to see what it is like to be an enlisted man.
125 posted on 07/05/2012 3:01:01 PM PDT by JimC214
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To: Gaffer
American airmen deaths dwarfed Iwo Jimas entire USMC losses.

The Marines lost 6800 dead in 36 days, I am aware of the US losses during the air campaign in WWII, 30000 dead in 994 days of combat operations in Europe. The dead from Iwo were 2% of the total American dead from the war.

126 posted on 07/05/2012 3:19:39 PM PDT by xone
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To: skinndogNN

My “yeah” was meant as sarcasm. I too do not believe in the draft because, as history proves in most cases, wars are fought to expand the power of the world’s oligarchy and as a means of reducing the human population. The focuss of killing for peace should be against the oligarchs.


127 posted on 07/05/2012 3:30:56 PM PDT by drypowder
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To: Timber Rattler

McChrystal is exactly right. Our all volunteer military has not and will not conclusively win any wars. It has nothing to do with the ability to fight and everything to do with the will.

There is currently far too much disconnect between the war fighters and the society they represent. The best we can hope for these days are trillion dollar, decade long stalemates.

Its easy to blame the leadership, but the problem is far deeper than them. It’s in our society. The cheap and easy answer we came up with was to divorce society from warfighting, and give a small number of troops higher pay and better training in exchange for not asking the rest of society to contribute anything to the wars we fight. It’s created a fantasy version of bloodless war for our civilians, and reduced our military operations to kabuki dance rituals.

The sooner we can re-introduce society at large to the reality of war, the sooner we might win another one (and likely, the less often we’ll go).


128 posted on 07/05/2012 3:36:48 PM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: Gaffer
The Battle of Iwo Jima (19 February – 26 March 1945), or Operation Detachment, was a major battle in which the United States fought for and captured the island of Iwo Jima from the Empire of Japan. The U.S. invasion, charged with the mission of capturing the three airfields on Iwo Jima, resulted in some of the fiercest fighting in the Pacific Campaign of World War II.

The Imperial Japanese Army positions on the island were heavily fortified, with a vast network of bunkers, hidden artillery, and 18 km (11 mi) of underground tunnels. The Americans were covered by extensive naval and air support, capable of delivering an enormous amount of firepower onto the Japanese positions. The battle was the first American attack on the Japanese Home Islands, and the Imperial soldiers defended their positions tenaciously. Iwo Jima was also the only U.S. Marine battle where the American overall casualties exceeded the Japanese, although Japanese combat deaths numbered 3 times that of Americans.

Of the 22,000 Japanese soldiers present at the beginning of the battle, only 216 were taken prisoner. The rest were killed or missing and assumed dead. Despite heavy fighting and casualties on both sides, Japanese defeat was assured from the start. The Americans possessed an overwhelming superiority in arms and numbers; this, coupled with the impossibility of Japanese retreat or reinforcement, ensured that there was no plausible scenario in which the U.S. could have lost the battle.

US casualties: 6,821 killed/missing; 19,217 wounded.

During this one-month-long battle, 27 U.S. military personnel were awarded the Medal of Honor for their actions, 13 of them posthumously. Of the 27 medals awarded for the actions at Iwo Jima, 22 were presented to Marines and five were presented to United States Navy sailors; this was 28% of the 82 Medals of Honor awarded to Marines in the entirety of World War II.

129 posted on 07/05/2012 3:40:06 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Trailerpark Badass

The latter - IMHO, the nation is made up of its citizens far more than its government, which should be the servant of the citizen (note the qualifier).


130 posted on 07/05/2012 4:13:48 PM PDT by jagusafr
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To: jagusafr
IMHO, the nation is made up of its citizens far more than its government

So I have some secular obligation to serve my fellow citizens?

Care to explain the basis of that obligation?

131 posted on 07/05/2012 4:44:12 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: dragonblustar

I don`t blame you one bit for feeling that way. I would never recommend the post-DADT military to anyone.


132 posted on 07/05/2012 5:14:54 PM PDT by ScottinVA (Buying Drain-O requires photo I.D... yet voting doesn't???)
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To: jrd

“I think when you graduate from high school everyone should enter the military and spend at least two years. I also thing that all officers should have to serve time as and enlisted person.”
_____________

I know a lot of kids who got their lives turned around by going into the service. I know that is not the purpose of the military, but I’m wondering if the wrong path the country is taking lately is not due to a populous that is dominated by people who have had it too easy for too long, who don’t know what sacrifices have been made for them. I don’t think that a nation that had shared the responsibility of military service would have elected Obama.


133 posted on 07/05/2012 6:38:16 PM PDT by rem_mitchell
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To: The_Victor
“Undependable draftees get good soldiers killed.”

I bet there were a lot of “undependable draftees” who were hero's in WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam!

134 posted on 07/05/2012 6:47:16 PM PDT by longhorn too
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To: rarestia

Actually you’re wrong. Blacks are under represented in combat arms. Hispanics are a bit over represented. As it has always been the evil white grunt is well represented in combat arms , KIA and WIA lists. But go ahead perpetuate myths if you must.


135 posted on 07/05/2012 6:49:43 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (.)
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To: Steel Wolf

Vietnam shoots your thesis to hell and gone.


136 posted on 07/05/2012 6:53:36 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (.)
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To: rem_mitchell

with that in mind I also think that no one should serve congress who has not served in the military


137 posted on 07/05/2012 7:21:22 PM PDT by jrd (DO AWAY WITH THE EPA)
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To: The_Victor
Democrats always want the draft to come back because all those hippy protests disappeared when it was eliminated.

That's why Rangel always wanted the draft back. He wants more war protests. No thanks!

138 posted on 07/05/2012 7:38:45 PM PDT by libs_kma (When I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

I generally don’t look at deeper obligations from a secular viewpoint. I think that being endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights creates concomitant obligations on the part of the society which enjoys them to protect and defend those rights.


139 posted on 07/05/2012 7:50:50 PM PDT by jagusafr
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To: jwalsh07

I’m not perpetuating myths, Walsh. I apologized for my oversight after Kabar’s post. If you read the entirety of the thread, you would see that I reneged on my oversight.

I fell victim to the MSM propagating the myth that blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately overrepresented. I know better now.


140 posted on 07/06/2012 6:01:02 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: rarestia

Sorry for piling on. But it’s a sore point. Happy Independence Day belatedly.


141 posted on 07/06/2012 9:30:12 AM PDT by jwalsh07 (.)
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To: hoosierham
a country that enslaves its citizens for military or any other service,is not FREE.

Rights are naturally accompanied by obligations, otherwise taxes are enslaving too.

142 posted on 07/13/2012 6:43:58 AM PDT by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
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To: Timber Rattler

Now that the fags are going to have free reign in the military, I wouldn’t encourage anyone to volunteer.

Of course that was the point, the Left hates a volunteer military, they think of the military as the Mother of All Social Programs.


143 posted on 07/13/2012 6:47:35 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: Freelance Warrior

Tell me how many of the soldiers in Washington’s army were draftees.

What rights were you thinking of?


144 posted on 07/13/2012 9:28:14 AM PDT by hoosierham (Freedom isn't free)
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To: hoosierham
1.In the British colony of Massachusetts Bay, all able-bodied men between the ages of 16 and 60 were required to participate in their local militia.

Gross, Robert A. The Minutemen and Their World. ©1976. Hill and Wang. LOC: 75-46595, p. 59

2.The citizens' ones.

145 posted on 07/13/2012 1:01:53 PM PDT by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
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