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Militarizing Japan Frightens Allies
RealClearWorld.com (via Korea Times) ^ | July 5, 2012 | Donald Kirk

Posted on 07/08/2012 4:32:31 AM PDT by Olog-hai

Since the end of World War II, the U.S. has managed to hold revanchist Japanese military aims in check while the Japanese pursued economic success. The rise of China, however, poses a threat that Japanese militarists believe requires a response. Would a military build-up be what’s needed to jumpstart the stagnating Japanese economy? …

Then there’s the historic question of the era of Japanese colonialism and militarism. Those days may be long gone, but the memory lingers on. Fears of a Japanese renaïssance as an aggressive imperial power won’t go away. Under the circumstances, it’s easy to understand widespread worries in South Korea about the negative implications of a pact under which Japan and South Korea would exchange military intelligence information. …

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearworld.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Japan
KEYWORDS: china; japan
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The Korea Times article is titled Balancing Forces in the Pacific.
1 posted on 07/08/2012 4:32:40 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

I for one would support an invasion by the Japanese if their goals were to restore the proper leadership of America.

Why not? America has invaded other countries, its called fair play baby

And I bet it could even have good consequences, Japan removes Obama and sends him and all communists to prison, restores order in the heart of America and definitely strikes down Obamataxcare.

Granted we may lose hawaii in the deal but I would say it would be worth it.


2 posted on 07/08/2012 4:37:43 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Going mobile, posts will be brief. No spellcheck for the grammar nazis.)
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To: Olog-hai
Japan has very good reason be to very frightened of two of her neighbors,both ruled by psychopaths and both believing (with or without justification) that they have major matters to "settle" with her.
3 posted on 07/08/2012 4:56:09 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: Gay State Conservative

Its about time the Japanese started taking part in the defence of their country. I don’t blame because the USA has a nastya habit of backstabbing allies.


4 posted on 07/08/2012 5:13:46 AM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: Olog-hai

The “Japan” card. And it is time to play it.


5 posted on 07/08/2012 5:19:47 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Eye of Unk

I don’t think the Navy would be too happy about losing a major strategic base in the middle of the Pacific.


6 posted on 07/08/2012 5:23:18 AM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: Yorlik803

The Japanese government does “take part.”
They pay for the cost of American bases, soldiers and sailors stationed in japan.


7 posted on 07/08/2012 5:31:37 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Eye of Unk
I for one would support an invasion by the Japanese if their goals were to restore the proper leadership of America.

Why not? America has invaded other countries, its called fair play baby.

It's also called outsourcing ;-)

8 posted on 07/08/2012 5:32:14 AM PDT by varon
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To: Olog-hai

The japs during the 30s and 40s were a horrible aggressor nation. My dad fought them across the Pacific as they needed a whoopin’.

The Chinese spit in our face after the war. ...After we saved their sorry a$$es. They and the N Korans are the aggressor nations and I support the Japanese building up their military both to have a strong ally and to be able to pull our own troops back from that area so we can stage them in other hotspots


9 posted on 07/08/2012 5:35:52 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Olog-hai

“Militarizing Japan Frightens Allies”

Sorry, but get over it.

I’d rather have the return of the Japanese military of old, just without the need to rape, invade, and be imperialistic, than a prostate island of people that spend most of their time buying gadgets and watching weird anime.


10 posted on 07/08/2012 5:37:44 AM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: varon

I would theorize a military strategy of a Japanese invasion force slipped into America, in coalition with un-named resources procures equipment and physically removes Obama from office.

An excellant Tom Clancy style of a techno-thriller.

Except in this case the Japanese are fighting FOR America to restore capitalism, free trade and Constitutional laws.

A socialist America does no good for Japan, a thriving free America can revitalize Japan.


11 posted on 07/08/2012 5:50:35 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Going mobile, posts will be brief. No spellcheck for the grammar nazis.)
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To: VanDeKoik

What makes you think that such a military as you hope to come to be would materialize?


12 posted on 07/08/2012 5:51:59 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: VanDeKoik; Olog-hai
I’d rather have the return of the Japanese military of old, just without the need to rape, invade, and be imperialistic, than a prostate [sic] island of people that spend most of their time buying gadgets and watching weird anime.

Very weird characterization. Should have read:
I’d rather have a prostrate island of people that spend most of their time buying gadgets and watching weird anime than the return of the invading, raping, imperialistic Japanese military of old.
I suppose it didn't occur to you that both are expressions of the same character, especially when you consider that the Japanese government pretends that its history of invading, raping, and imperialism didn't exist.

As demonstrated by a couple of Japanese girls who asked a Chinese friend of mine at a party which city in China he was from. They didn't even show a spark of recognition when I said, "Let's hope it wasn't Nanking." My Chinese friends, though, who were about the same age, did know.
13 posted on 07/08/2012 5:55:32 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Eye of Unk

Why would they have such a goal? Would you really prefer that the USA be ruled by a foreign monarch again, but this time from the Chrysanthemum Throne . . . ?


14 posted on 07/08/2012 5:58:30 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

The country of Japan is facing a terrible crisis right now, mostly from the tsunami. From what little I know of the warriors code, the honor of keeping “face” I would tend to see Japan taking an offensive stance somehow on an issue that would benefit them.

I am having a chuckle that anyone is actually thinking for a moment that Japan would invade the USA, restore proper leadership and everybody wins, they leave no demands except a bill for their efforts. obviously its lunacy only worthy of being in an anime film.

Would make for an awesome movie though.


15 posted on 07/08/2012 6:10:37 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Going mobile, posts will be brief. No spellcheck for the grammar nazis.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Not to mention that their SDF is pretty well equipped!


16 posted on 07/08/2012 6:11:34 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Eye of Unk

One thing that Hollywood does right is really good English dubs of anime. Nobody could beat the timing of Casey Kasem and Janet Waldo in their dub of Gatchaman (the Battle Of The Planets version).


17 posted on 07/08/2012 6:13:01 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: VanDeKoik

“I’d rather have the return of the Japanese military of old.....than a prostate island of people that spend most of their time buying gadgets and watching weird anime.”

Interesting. I was in grade school when we were stationed there in the fifties. We were taught what was the best of Japan: art, haiku, contemplative Buddhism, rock gardens, folk tales, cuisine. All these were seen as a break from the grinding pace of work, rebuilding, & reindustrialization. Occasionally get away from the rat race, and meditate.

The seemier side we learned about later, epitomized at the time by the ubiquitous `pachinko parlors’ in the local towns. After a while, it seemed as though avoidance of personal corruption would be a daily struggle for any Japanese trying to maintain focus on the better things.

Of course, a renewal of `Bushido’ would set off alarms all across the Pacific. But there is something in my opinion to questing for a simpler life. Picking up a good book instead of video games, for example. Works wonders. There is also value in the military virtues as well.

But they’re going to have to come up with a better name for their military than “Japan Self Defense Force”. Really.


18 posted on 07/08/2012 6:15:20 AM PDT by elcid1970 (Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind. Deus vult!")
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To: Little Ray

Unless its changed I thought it was the JSDF.

Oh they are very well equipped.

And they don’t let anyone know about it.

i could theorize that their equipment is several years ahead of whats currently considered the best.


19 posted on 07/08/2012 6:15:42 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Going mobile, posts will be brief. No spellcheck for the grammar nazis.)
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To: Olog-hai

I really enjoy good Japanese anime. Several of my favorites are Steamboy, Ghost in the Machine and such. Nothing in America comes close.

I remember back in the early 90’s when I rented the VHS anime and dubbing wasn’t always there, you get a different feel when its spoken in Japanese but with English captioning.


20 posted on 07/08/2012 6:22:41 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Going mobile, posts will be brief. No spellcheck for the grammar nazis.)
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To: Olog-hai

“What makes you think that such a military as you hope to come to be would materialize?”

They, and we dont, have much of a choice.


21 posted on 07/08/2012 6:28:13 AM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: VanDeKoik

Who is holding them to any choice?


22 posted on 07/08/2012 6:31:22 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: elcid1970
I was an Army Brat in 1950s Japan.
One of my favorite summer activities was taking the streetcar from Sannotani to as far as my 25 yen round trip ticket would take me.
I was usually the only American on board...
23 posted on 07/08/2012 6:38:22 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Olog-hai

On one side the U.S.-created provisions in their laws that did away with the cultural notion of imperialistic expansion via the military that Japan was basically governed by for decades.

On the other is China that would flatten Japan if they engaged in any unprovoked military expansion on the Asian Continent.


24 posted on 07/08/2012 6:39:54 AM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: VanDeKoik

Doesn’t mean that Japan would not chuck any “provisions” in an instant. Many in their government have been trying for quite a while. And I don’t think they’re scared of China to the degree that they’d back down from their military without giving it a good try first. Besides (and what may be worse for the USA) is that there are many in Japan who are actually seeking rapprochement with China while rebuilding Japan’s military simultaneously . . . and that would not bode well for other US-aligned states in the Far East; that might even make them switch allegiance too and leave the USA shut out of the Pacific.


25 posted on 07/08/2012 6:45:23 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

The Japanese should be able to arm themselves as they see fit, at least comparable to their neighbors, but with enough extra to keep the peace. Their neighborhood, their call.


26 posted on 07/08/2012 7:01:56 AM PDT by GBA (To understand what is happening to America and why, read The Harbinger by Jonathan Cahn)
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To: GBA

Some viewpoints in Japan include strategic nukes under the “as they see fit” umbrella. Always count on human nature . . .


27 posted on 07/08/2012 7:27:14 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: aruanan
As demonstrated by a couple of Japanese girls who asked a Chinese friend of mine at a party which city in China he was from. They didn't even show a spark of recognition when I said, "Let's hope it wasn't Nanking." My Chinese friends, though, who were about the same age, did know.

The principal difference between the Chinese empire and the Japanese one is (1) Chinese atrocities dwarf the Japanese ones by several orders of magnitude without even taking into consideration the Communist era and (2) the Chinese empire is still intact. During the unification of Northeast Asia into the entity now known as China, entire kingdoms were slaughtered. That history tended to be watered down until new dynasties could safely blame previous ones and would anyhow place it in the category of intra-family squabbles, as opposed to the systematic extermination of distinct ethnic and language groups. Note that the Nanking massacre was the third such city-wide massacre in that city alone in recent (i.e the past 7 centuries) Chinese history. The other cases occurred during the Ming Emperor Yongle's 15th century coup d'etat and the Qing Emperor Xianfeng's 19th century extermination of the Taiping rebels. I think we are guilty of a variant of presentism in passing judgment on the Japanese atrocities.

28 posted on 07/08/2012 7:36:06 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Olog-hai

Far too isolated for far too long, the Japanese have got a couple of national screws loose (”IMHO” of course), but other than that I have no problem with it.

As they arm up this time, though, they need to focus a bit more practically on a few small matters like strategy, tactics, logistics and weapons.


29 posted on 07/08/2012 7:51:10 AM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: Olog-hai
On the surface, allowing Japan to re-arm sounds good. However, I'm not really sure that Japan has honestly faced its past in the way that Germany has. Yes, (West) Germany was allowed to rearm, but it had to face what its predecessor government did squarely and with no wiggling around on the issue. Considering ongoing textbook revisionism and neo-militarism in Japan, they simply don't seem to have done this (and as a non-Western nation, "multiculturalism" has given them a cover the Germans didn't have).

As for China, that was a large, friendly country and an ally until our Communist-infiltrated State Department turned it into an enemy. How much current Chinese posturing comes from Communism and how much from old fashioned right wing nationalism I do not pretend to know. As another non-Western nation, Chinese right wing nationalism would be treated as if it were left wing by liberals anyway (as they do with Black and Hispanic nationalism).

30 posted on 07/08/2012 8:04:39 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
how much from old fashioned right wing nationalism I do not pretend to know.

At its unification 2200 years ago, after a decade-long series of wars among various independent kingdoms, China's land area was 1/5 of what it is today. From a territorial standpoint, China is Asia's traditional expansive power. The past 200 years have been peaceful in that regard because of Chinese weakness. In the Chinese context, a modern ideology like nationalism is simply a repackaging of the traditional Chinese attitude at the leadership level that geographical expansion to gather additional manpower and resources is the most natural thing in the world.

31 posted on 07/08/2012 8:30:16 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei
At its unification 2200 years ago, after a decade-long series of wars among various independent kingdoms, China's land area was 1/5 of what it is today. From a territorial standpoint, China is Asia's traditional expansive power. The past 200 years have been peaceful in that regard because of Chinese weakness. In the Chinese context, a modern ideology like nationalism is simply a repackaging of the traditional Chinese attitude at the leadership level that geographical expansion to gather additional manpower and resources is the most natural thing in the world.

So where does Communism fit into this? And would a China in which Chiang and the Nationalists had defeated the Communists be just as problematic?

Ironically, I recall that in Frank Capra's The Battle of China (part of the "Why We Fight" series) it was claimed that in all their history the Chinese had never engaged in a war of conquest. Wartime propaganda, I suppose.

32 posted on 07/08/2012 8:59:35 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Gay State Conservative

“Japan has very good reason be to very frightened of two of her neighbors,both ruled by psychopaths and both believing (with or without justification) that they have major matters to “settle” with her.”

China has more than enough justification (starting in 1931) to “settle things” with Japan. Japan didn’t have to behave as they did in those years and China is not about to let them forget that.

If I were Japan, I would be very, very, concerned about the emergence of China and would even consider a pre-emptive strike on them. They are not going to enjoy life under Chinese occupiers, and China will make damn sure of that.


33 posted on 07/08/2012 9:08:40 AM PDT by BobL
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To: Zhang Fei

“I think we are guilty of a variant of presentism in passing judgment on the Japanese atrocities. “

I won’t dispute your recalling of history, but the history of Chinese treating other Chinese like crap simply doesn’t matter to today’s Chinese. What does matter is when an alien occupier does it. That’s when notes are taken and its been that way for as long as history has been recorded.


34 posted on 07/08/2012 9:15:02 AM PDT by BobL
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To: Olog-hai
"The rise of China, however, poses a threat that Japanese militarists believe requires a response."

The implication is that the Japanese "militarists" are the only people who perceive China to be of concern for her neighbors or the world.

While acknowledging that historically Korea has had problems with Japan, one would think that recent history would lead Korea to prefer that Japan act as a counter-balance for China's military. The US seems to be relinquishing that role.

35 posted on 07/08/2012 9:30:19 AM PDT by BwanaNdege (Man has often lost his way, but modern man has lost his address - Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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To: All

Well bully for them. What are they supposed to do, sit around waiting for an American president who may or may not help them in time of attack?

If China is nervous - good. They should be. In all the first hand accounts I have read about the Japanese soldier in combat during WWII they are to be feared and respected.


36 posted on 07/08/2012 9:49:23 AM PDT by warsaw44
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To: Yorlik803

In some cases, yes, but after 50+ years of a commitment to Japan and South Korea, one can hardly call us backstabbers. I say this as the daughter of a Korean veteran and the niece of two WW II veterans.


37 posted on 07/08/2012 10:26:19 AM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: Zionist Conspirator
So where does Communism fit into this? And would a China in which Chiang and the Nationalists had defeated the Communists be just as problematic?

Ironically, I recall that in Frank Capra's The Battle of China (part of the "Why We Fight" series) it was claimed that in all their history the Chinese had never engaged in a war of conquest. Wartime propaganda, I suppose.

Old wine in new bottles. British commanders were extremely wary of the presence of Chiang's armies in Burma (then part of the British empire occupied by Japan) during WWII, given the Chinese claim on the entire territory as a tributary state (a la Tibet). Sinologists are not to be trusted on the subject of China's territorial acquisitiveness - too many fall in love with their subject, in some cases, literally, by marrying Chinese spouses. They're not entirely to be blamed, of course. Anyone who spends a lifetime researching a given subject is likely to have an unusual degree of attachment to it, coupled with an inability to see its warts for what they are.

38 posted on 07/08/2012 10:36:27 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: BobL
I won’t dispute your recalling of history, but the history of Chinese treating other Chinese like crap simply doesn’t matter to today’s Chinese. What does matter is when an alien occupier does it. That’s when notes are taken and its been that way for as long as history has been recorded.

My point is that if the Japanese conquest of China had held rather been reversed by the A-bomb attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we'd be talking about the inhumanity of Japanese to other Japanese. And the whole Sino-Japanese War as another chapter in the unification of mainland Japan.

39 posted on 07/08/2012 10:42:52 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Olog-hai

Japanese militancy ranks right up there with Christian terrorists - BS.


40 posted on 07/08/2012 10:53:40 AM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: Amberdawn

Yes. But at the same time we bailed on South Vietnam...
But I see your point and Thank your dad and uncles.{My Dad was a WW2 vet also}


41 posted on 07/08/2012 11:01:12 AM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: Eye of Unk

With the totally corrupt democrat control of Hawaii now, takeover by Japan may be a good thing.


42 posted on 07/08/2012 11:15:11 AM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: Olog-hai

Japan would have to enlist South Korea to have any force that could project power. There simply isn’t enough young Japanese men to fill the ranks.


43 posted on 07/08/2012 11:28:39 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Mister Da

“Japanese militancy ranks right up there with Christian terrorists - BS.”

Too much History Channel, or, as my ex used to call it, The Hitler Channel. A lot of people get stuck in the WWII glue and think EVERY historical event/trend relates to the war. It can be tedious.

Japan is one of the most pacifistic societies in the world. They have moved on from their past. Too many WWII buffs haven’t.

Heck, even my uncle, a Bataan survivor, managed to forgive the Japanese before he died. Learn from it, but get over it!


44 posted on 07/08/2012 12:12:27 PM PDT by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: Zhang Fei

One final question: if Chiang had won the Civil War instead of Mao, would China still be our enemy?


45 posted on 07/08/2012 12:19:55 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Zhang Fei

“The reason few of the tests had much of an EMP effect is NONE of them were detonated in the outer stratosphere. For an EMP to be a worst case scenario it needs to be 20 megaton and detonated about 300KM in space.”

Yea, I didn’t know enough to get into specifics, but since those earlier tests were not intended to test for EMP, in most cases, they probably took steps to protect whatever might have been in the path of the pulse. Let’s do an above-ground test specifically for EMP and see what happens - even a small bomb, nothing like 20 MT, would teach us a lot. I think we should get with Russia and simply do a joint test - they’re as hooked on computers now as we are, so they might just be game for it.


46 posted on 07/08/2012 12:58:22 PM PDT by BobL
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To: VanDeKoik
I’d rather have the return of the Japanese military of old, just without the need to rape, invade, and be imperialistic, than a prostate island of people that spend most of their time buying gadgets and watching weird anime.

I have long thought that it was over for Japan becoming a warlike entity again, because of their men becoming wusses playing games and such. But Germany bounced back from the ruin of WWI because Hitler became a father figure for disenchanted youth, and led Germany to prosperous growth and a strong military. All it would take is the appearance of a strong Hitler-type charismatic figure to rally the youth of Japan. Not likely to happen but possible. (Heck, we need someone other than Obama to rally our youth.)

More likely for them to fall under the influence of a strong China, while having an alliance with India and South Korea. The USA is weakening while India gets stronger, and India becomes important for Japan.

47 posted on 07/08/2012 1:05:48 PM PDT by roadcat
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To: aruanan
The way things are going, the next time the “Nips” will rape all the cattle and kill all the women. Right after the Russians took Berlin in 1945 Russian soldiers raped two million German women, married or single, didn't make any difference, for a woman to lock her door was a death sentence. After the rapes many of those women committed suicide. What happens today to female reporters in foreign lands is the same. Many many of those “Peace Corps” girls are raped within the first week of posting. War is hell, life is real and “wishing” does not change it.
48 posted on 07/08/2012 1:52:59 PM PDT by Gertie
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To: Zionist Conspirator
One final question: if Chiang had won the Civil War instead of Mao, would China still be our enemy?

I don't think the Chinese are our enemy. We can choose to be their enemy if we oppose their territorial expansion, assuming they resume the patterns of antiquity. The real question is whether our interests in Asia outweigh the potential cost of a clash in China. A big part of the decision is determining whether it is feasible to have our regional allies bear a big part of the burden, given that the primary beneficiary of our defense of their territorial integrity isn't Uncle Sam, whereas the primary cost of stopping the Chinese might fall on us.

If Taiwan and the South China Sea were the limits of their territorial ambition, I suspect most strategists of any stripe would say that those aren't excessive, assuming that this held for the rest of time. But since there's no way to tell for sure, why hand anything over for free? Deter them by making them pay a heavy price in men and equipment. As to whether Chiang would have been satisfied with China's boundaries, let me point out that Taiwan shows Mongolia and parts of Siberia, in addition to the South China Sea, as part of the territory of Kuomintang (Nationalist) China.

49 posted on 07/08/2012 2:51:39 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Are you sure Germany really has faced its past? A recent poll found that well over 60 percent of Germans regard Israel as an aggressive nation.


50 posted on 07/08/2012 3:35:56 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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