Posted on 07/10/2012 4:37:37 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
In an interesting turn of events, it appears that the man that was shot wasn’t involved in the disturbance the police were responding to, he was just a bystander.
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/18985595/2012/07/09/hpd-officer-shoots-kills#ixzz20BQIbM68
Interesting that the original story places the number of people at 5 or 6, the later story calls it “a large crowd”. This reinforces my opinion that HPD made bad tactical decisions in response to the situation.
Wonder what the story will be tomorrow?
Police orders disobeyed.
If the police officer is telling the truth, she shot him because he would not show his hands and kept one hand in his shirt like he was nursing a weapon as he turned around to face her. She didn’t have much choice in that instance IF she’s being truthful.
If you've ever looked at the facts (instead of emotional hearsay), you understand. You should NEVER let someone considered to be a threat and within 50 feet of you keep their hands concealed in ANY manner. To do so is almost certain death.
The invective on here is anger at the government for making wrong decisions. However, the high level officials making those wrong decisions are guarded by people and held in power by people doing a job they were hired to do to keep peace in society. The way to change things is to correct the collapsed value system of society which will lead to righteous leaders.
All of those making harsh comments against police on here would be even more despotic were THEY the ones holding the gun and feeling threatened by someone who refused to follow rightful orders. Our lack of Biblical values in this nation is going to lead to armed conflict. Either this nation turns back to God or we follow the rest of the world in settling wrongs or perceived wrongs with violence.
By the way, this man "Lara" came from a nation that does just that. His point of view about police and righting wrongs is very different than what a lot of people here grew up with.
In my younger days I had many encounters with the police, pulled over for traffic violations, license checks, at bars where fights were, in shopping center parking lots,etal. never was I frisked or searched. never was I told,"Show me your hands". One time I had purchased a different car and the temporary paper tag the dealer put on blew off. I was pulled over, as we were talking [back then one could carry on an everyday conversation with police] I had put my right hand in my pocket. He stated, "Would you mind taking your hand out of your pocket"? I said o.k. it is just a habit. We continued talking, and in a few minutes I noticed my hand was back in my pocket. I said,"Oops I forgot. He said, never mind. We talked a little more and went our separate ways. that was probably back in the 1960s when the police were your friends.
Today, I probably been shot so full of lead that instead of burying me, they would have just sent me to the foundry and had me melted down.
“Turn around and place your hands behind your back”
This is a horrible story but there is a big difference between an officer walking up to an unarmed person and shooting them FOR NO REASON and this case.
The man acted suspiciously from the start. Walking away from a situation like that kicked it off. Refusing to stop when ordered escalated it.
After doing all this, turning around and APPROACHING the officer, who has a gun drawn, who is ordering you to stop, WITH YOUR HAND HIDDEN UNDER YOUR SHIRT is suicide by cop.
“Police orders disobeyed.
If the police officer is telling the truth, she shot him because he would not show his hands and kept one hand in his shirt like he was nursing a weapon as he turned around to face her. She didn’t have much choice in that instance IF she’s being truthful.
She can choose to wait for REAL evidence of threat. Contempt of cop is not a capital offense. If you or I shot someone in that situation, we’d go to prison. Or is a cop’s life more valuable, and REASONABLE fear standards lower for them?
I agree that contempt of cop does not justify homocide.
If what she said is true - that he stopped turned towards her with his hand under his shirt, she could have waited until he pulled a gun before shooting. But we don’t live on a Western movie set.
I hope there are civilian witnesses to the incident that back up the officer’s story.
Even if all is true, hands unseen is not reasonable cause. At what’s point do they start shooting people for simply looking at them wrong? Because you MIGHT draw a weapon.
I know I can have a look that scares cops. I had to got to driving school over a ticket I didn’t deserve. I was used to get even with my father. Until then, I’d have been called a boot licker. I know better now.
The instructor identified himself as and orlando pd officer.
I don’t know what my face looked like like, but he jerked back.
As I expected, the story is changing. Eye witnesses are disputing the police version of events.
from this story:
“Suddenly, Lara turned around to face the officers and was shot fatally by McGowan, Ruvio said, his hands still suspended in the air.
Stunned at the scene, Ruvio yelled to McGowan that she had killed an innocent person, and McGowan responded that “he had drawn out a gun.”
McGowan then proceeded to tear Lara’s shirt open and take off his shoes, said Ruvio. No weapon was found.
Ruvio brought out her phone to take a video of the scene, she said, but an officer seized it from her, telling her she was not to record anything.”
If the police have nothing to hide, why seize the video?
You're hired!! When can you start?
I know I can have a look that scares cops.
You’re hired!! When can you start?
Shoot, that was more than fifteen years ago. By today’s standards, I’m over qualified. Just get a cockerspaniel. Cops are terrified of them.
Even if all is true, hands unseen is not reasonable cause. At what’s point do they start shooting people for simply looking at them wrong? Because you MIGHT draw a weapon.
Some “pre-crime laws I understand. DUI, speeding, ect. Some would argue 90mph in a school zone is fine as long as you don’t hit a kid. Drive drunk? No problem if you don’t hit and harm and innocent. That’s absurd. I’m not going to wait for someone to kill my child before doing something to stop their wrong actions.
But use of force by cops needs delta with. I’m not asking them to let the criminal shoot first, but I do expect them to wait until they know he has a gun before pulling the trigger. And it’s a lot grayer in someone’s house.
A soft headed Euro-dhimmie I am not ;)
If I had my way we’d resurrect Richard I and drive ‘em back where they came from. When they’re ready to try living in the 21st century rather than the 12th, we’ll talk.
I lived in the US for nearly 20 years and am wondering what you mean by “put up with that crap.” On my reading the guy was doing nothing but walking around with his hand in his shirt.
If you tried to exercise your right to self-defence under such circumstances you’d find yourself on the witness stand answering to charges of 1st degree murder.
The police have every right to defend themselves, but summary street executions for “crimes” like not following orders, having your hand obscured by your shirt, bumping into police cars etc. are not the marks of a truly free society.
If police are allowed to stretch the definition of “self-defence” to pre-emptively shooting people they think might pose a threat at some point in the future, without any other evidence (ie. its a different story in the case of a known armed criminal who has already demonstrated his intent) where does it end?
The truth is coming out. See updates on thread.
ACLU is now questioning the seizure of the bystanders camera and video.
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2012/07/aclu_rufino_lara_cell_phone.php
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