Skip to comments.Did the police and fire departments sink Stockton?
Posted on 07/12/2012 7:13:50 AM PDT by Hojczyk
Ill gladly pay you Tuesday doesnt seem like such a good idea on Wednesday: how public worker pay and pensions doomed Stockton. http://vlt.tc/d7y
How does a bankrupt city pay its public safety workers twice the median household income of the areas residents? More important, why havent the city manager and council stopped this wage bonanza? In Stockton, California, public safety workers earn on average 126 percent of the maximum salary and at least 200 percent of the minimum wage for their respective wage categories.
The California State Controllers Office has all the data, and its not pretty. Stocktons median household income was $50,011 in 2010. In contrast, the average total wage paid to a city police worker was $93,111. For employees of the fire department, it was $110,303. Admittedly, these are dangerous professions, but surely they are not so dangerous as to require pay of double the median household income of the entire community
Stockton, in its bankruptcy filing, admits that the city has had little-to-no success in getting the pay of its public safety workers under control, and these expenses consume about 76 percent of the general fund. Spreadsheet of the public worker compensation is here. http://vlt.tc/d7z
(Excerpt) Read more at thetransom.org ...
It is my understanding that construction work is more dangerous that either police of firemen. Does anyone know if this statistic is still true. Yet we always hear about the dangerous work of police and firemen.
If Stockton, or any city, was rated as the safest place for people to live, it wouldn’t bother me if the police were the highest payed in the country. But Stockton? One of highest crime rates in the state. What are people getting for their money?
Are fire fighters and police really that dangerous...
US Workplace Fatalities 2010
#1 COMMERCIAL FISHING:
116 Deaths per 100,000 in 2010;
#2 through #10 Most Dangerous for 2010
Job Title and Number of Deaths per 100,000 People Employed
2. Loggers and related job titles: 91.9/100,000 — Same place rank as 2008.
3. Aircraft Pilots and Flight Engineers: 70.6 per 100,000 — Up from #6 in 2008.
4. Farmers and Ranchers: 41.4 per 100,000 — Same place rank as 2008.
5. Mining Machine Operators: 38.7 per 100,000 — Up from #8 in 2008. See: The Millfield Mining Disaster.
6. Roofers: 32.4 per 100,000 — Up from #7 in 2008, becoming more deadly.
7. Refuse and Recyclable Materials Collectors: 29.8 per 100,000 — Down from #5 in 2008
8. Driver/Sales Workers and Truck Drivers: 21.8 per 100,000 — Up from #17 in 2008.
9. Industrial Machinery Installation, Repair and Maintenance Workers: 20.3 per 100,000
10. Police and Sheriff’s Officers: 18.0 per 100,000 — Up from #12 in 2008.
The city has had little-to-no success in getting the pay of its public safety workers under control.
The idiot safety workers demands will put them out of work or set a small pay day.
Hacks now feel the pain of alowing contracts for votes,you get what you allow.
how much were they spending on welfare and ‘the arts’?
Wonder where drug dealers rate on that scale.
I am familiar with the Line of Duty Death information for Firefighters. The number has settled near or under 100. YOu can goggle LODD and find the information for LE and FF
I don't know how accurate the data is, but according to this site:
...the City of Stockton PD has had 10 fatalities...since 1854.
Another dangerous profession is fisherman...especially in arctic waters. I guess some see the difference between police and other more dangerous occupations is the level of personal interaction between the police and individuals.
The biggest difference contributing to bankrupty IMO is pension issues. I don’t know of a construction worker who has a 20 or 25 year career and out on pension system albeit being a police official is not as dangerous as some others.
Talk about a group of people that do not get paid enough...
Nope. The citizens are to blame. We have a representative democracy. If those dipsticks in Stockton want to fix this, they need to quit electing free-spending Democrats.
Everybody likes the Democrat’s free pony rides until somebody has to pay for the feed and clean up the horse crap.
Around here, every year when the FBI releases its crime stats for the previous year, our local police chief is like Punxsutawney Phil on Groundhog Day. He pops his head out of a hole, looks around and if the local crime rates went down, it was due to his, "aggressive new police initiatives, the quality of the officers and proactive law enforcement." If on the other hand, the stats go up, it was no doubt, a "reflection of changing socio-economic conditions," or possibly, "budget cuts."
Problem is, it's in California; who is doing everything it can to hurt businesses. Plus it's the Central Valley. Great weather, I lived there 21 years; but the CV does not attract outside wealth like Malibu or Sausilito
Now they have to pay the bond, and no cash flow to pay for it.
Watch who you vote for, I tell my liberal friends in CA.
Lumberjack and deep sea fishing are the big two. Fireman is fairly dangerous, like construction, in the top ten.
Police is 27th most dangerous, just below landscape gardeners.
About 90% of firemen never go to a fire but they are damn good domino and card players. Most also have second jobs for their many days off.
Most policemen are never in harms way, either.
I agree.. the problem also lies in the fact that this 40 to 43% voting block of gov workers, including state, and local, is very much inclined to vote.
can you just imagine if the dems in the federal gov had their way and had over 50% of the general population working for the state in one or another?
good lord it would be all over... which I kind of think it is anyway..
‘It is my understanding that construction work is more dangerous that either police of firemen. Does anyone know if this statistic is still true. Yet we always hear about the dangerous work of police and firemen.’
There are hundreds of thousands of us who work in the power and semiconductor businesses where plant buildings have the highest ratings for chemical, fire, and health hazards. There have been deaths by electrocution. Folks have died by entering closed spaces which have filled with pure nitrogen.
I worked on the third floor of a building whose second floor contained all high voltage electrical transformers and piping for silane gas, phosphorous, arsenic, boron, chlorine, and many others. We all took a risk by going to work every day.
However, our safety record improved continuously and not at the expense of freedoms. Good engineering design and training eliminated hazards.
I think lack of training and procedures which give these city workers an easy way out is part of the problem.
We didn’t get any higher pay for working in these places. No such thing as hazard or combat pay.
We also had our own hazmat and security. They were better qualified to work in these buildings because they had the training, knowledge of the hazards, and were local and responded ASAP. They were our coworkers who were cross-trained.
Up from 17 to 8 from 2008....
So how is this possible with new trucks and all the safety regulations in place.....?
Every public employee belongs to their public union, and they run the city, not the other way around. Who can afford it?
If you feel police of fire work is to dangerous to do for less than 100K, then you need to find another career because there are a whole lot of people who don't feel it is for a lot less, and the only reason they aren't doing the job at this point is because it's a tightly closed shop.
Working as a night-shift convenience store clerk put you more in danger of being shot than being a cop does.
Dollars to donuts several megabuck Stocton firefighters live in Honolulu or Tucson or someplace like that. The Cleveland fire administration back in December was scrambling to wipe the egg off their faces when the Plain Dealer revealed that one of the city’s six-figure firefighters lived in San Diego:
Ten most dangerous jobs...
4. Iron/Steel Worker
5. Garbage Collector
8. Electrical Power Installer/Repairer
9. Sales, Delivery, and Other Truck Driver
New first time (inexperienced) drivers because of low driver retention on the road with many other new, inexperienced drivers of all sorts...
Speaking entirely from a California perspective, police unions have very little, if any power within a city and certainly do not “run the city”. In most cities, the police “union” only exists because the city needs a face to negotiate with at the time of contract issues. Most cities run on a two year budget and at the time the budget is compiled the city will determine it’s stance at the negotiations and have maximum expense that will be of issue during negotiations.
The problem with police salaries is simply a matter of supply and demand, which is exacerbated by a limited labor pool, namely those who would choose to be police officer.
Also in California, police officers recieve a certifcate from the state, a sort of license, which allows them to transfer laterally to any department in the state. Additionally, most cities contract with CalPers, which allows the officer to maintain his/her pension benefit, when if they choose to transfer.
So to stay competetive a neighboring city must have comperable salaries and benefits, if not, officers are often enticed to go where the compensation is better.
As to who can afford it, that is also being taken care of, as hiring in local agencies has ground to a halt. Contracts will be changed and departments will get smaller.
Competent police and fire protection is expensive, period! Pay and benefits are calculated based on the pay and benefits of surrounding municipalities (similarly situated).
Although, perhaps, the fatality rates are not immediately as apparent as those of fisherman; you can do without that Alaskan King Crab leg. Can you do without firemen, when your home is on fire? Instead of looking at fatality rates, perhaps, you ought to look at life expectancy after separation from the job. There are too many issues involved to reach summary conclusions about any of this. Nothing is ever as simple as it appears. Stockton, like so many other cities run by liberals, got drunk on spending; and when the housing bubble burst got caught in the lurch!
Of course, the other widow will simply forget and move on.
That's how T.I. built their semiconductor plants in Dallas and Houston, years ago. I worked in a CAD development department on the first floor where they had lucite 'hats' for the computer racks because the computers had previously been destroyed by burst pipes in the ceiling, serving the second floor (support level) and third floor (semiconductor production level).
About 500 firefighters die a year from job related injuries. It’s very consistent over time.
And what were they spending because of crimes committed by illegals? (And welfare and free medical care and public schooling for illegals’ kids.)
At least the employees provide soem level fo service. besides beign scapegoated.
Yes, this is true, but being “scapegoated” is not.
BTW a close family member recently trained for vol. firefighter and first responder; he makes a tiny amount of $ for his work, not really enough to pay for gas driving to the station. So I learned about the 500 firefighter deaths a year from the materials he studies.
PS - public employee unions should be illegal.
How do you know that?
I used to be one. In two years we went to two false alarms. However, it can be dangerous. I lost a high school friend who ran into a burning building and never came out. That was before air tanks and our training never mentioned the absence of air to breathe in many burning buildings.
I don't have statistics to prove my point but I do have my own experience and that of friends and family members who are/were also firemen. We were a medium size city with about twenty fire stations.