Skip to comments.Scandal at Penn State Poses Tough Choices for N.C.A.A.
Posted on 07/14/2012 3:50:01 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
In N.C.A.A. parlance, lack of institutional control is a hazy, almost undefinable term. It is also the organizations ultimate admonishment, the phrase it utters before handing down its most severe penalties.
Now, in light of the child sexual abuse scandal at Penn State, there is some question about whether those nebulous words will be used by the N.C.A.A. to impose serious sanctions on the Nittany Lions football program, perhaps even forcing the team to shut down for a time, the so-called death penalty.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
No, it’s not. If they can put a team on probation for a coach giving one of his players $10 for a Big Mac Meal, they surely can give the Death Penalty for an entire University and community condoning Homosexual Rape of young boys (the locals saying they never knew what was happening with Sandusky, sounds a lot like German residents outside Concentration Camps who “never knew what was going on”).
Penn State is the Mother of All Lack of Institutional Control scandals.
NCAA’s choice is obvious.
As a former NCAA student-athlete I can tell you it is quite easy to get away with things. I didn't attempt to because I always had the idea that I would be the one who got caught. Others took a lot of advantage of it though.
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The NCAA didn't make them, they did it on Principle
The entire coaching staff quit en-block
How much worse is it to have tolerated Felony Pedophilia for Years
If Joe Paterno had been a serial killer, he would have been liable for the criminal penalties for that, but as long as it didn’t give his team a competitive advantage, I don’t think the NCAA should be involved. The NCAA makes itself the judge of too many things (for instance, deciding whether mascot names are politically correct enough).
> the locals saying they never knew what was happening with Sandusky, sounds a lot like German residents outside Concentration Camps who never knew what was going on
I live outside an American military camp but don’t know what’s going on inside (for instance, whether the trainees are being trained properly). Neither do I know what’s happening, in secret, in neighborhood schools and churches. I don’t believe that 99% of the Penn State fans, students, or football players knew what Sandusky was doing.
Every single student athlete at Penn State should have the opportunity to opt out of their scholarship and immediately transfer to the school of their choice without penalty.
You mean Paterno himself. It didn’t give his school’s team a competitive advantage. (In fact, from what you’ve said it appears the team would have been better off without him.)
That penalty was imposed because several football players got cash payoffs from boosters.
Now we have a school that turned over their premiere athletic program to pedophiles and their enablers.
So, how do you punish a school for allowing that to happen?
What is proportionate to the IU penalty?
If the story would have broke, it is likely that it would have huert his recruiting and general donations to the school..
Penn State needs to be shut down based on their hubris and denial alone.
A whole lot of people knew about the goings on at PSU but did nothing, because their sports were more important than those boy’s welfare. The university should pay the penalty. Maybe colleges and universities can then focus on the reason they are supposed to exist...education.
The cover-up didn’t give them a competitive advantage, but I agree that it prevented them from being put at a disadvantage.
If the NCAA does not give that house of perversion the death penalty, they have lost all credibility.
Big difference..you can’t SMELL what’s happening at the local Army base.
What is the matter with you people? There is no reason to punish the innocent. Current PSU players and coaches and students have nothing to do with this and should not be punished. They have done nothing wrong. The guilty are either dead, in prison, or are in the process of adjudication. Whatever happened to the principle of ex post facto?
I have to wonder if McQueary didn’t tell at least a few of his players and friends. I believe more than four people knew about this....5 counting Sandusky and many young boys.
IMHO Paterno should have every victory since 1998, when he first learned about Sandusky, stripped from his record.
All the stuff the NCAA comes down on teams for involves recruitment to the team or maintaining the amateur status of the players. Everything else they leave up to the law men. There won’t be any NCAA punishments on this, and there really shouldn’t be.
You make me sick.
lack of institutional control is a hazy, almost undefinable term. It is also the organizations ultimate admonishment, the phrase it utters before handing down its most severe penalties.
Yes when the penalty is for infractions by players or related to recruiting. Sandusky being a homosexual pervert has nothing to do with anyone playing football or anyone that was recruited to Penn State. Yes many horrible things should be done to Administrators etc at the school. But on what basis can the NCAA do anything to a bunch of football players that have done nothing wrong, where not even there when bad things were done?
Most, or maybe all, NCAA rules violations are not crimes. Criminal behavior is the business of law enforcement and the courts, not the NCAA.
PSU will pay a heavy price in civil law suits, or in out-of-court settlements, and in other ways as a result of this. Sandusky has been tried and convicted and the three living higher ups may well face criminal charges.
It won’t surprise me if the NCAA does nothing.
Why? I don’t understand why any innocent people should be punished. I believe the guilty should be punished, not the innocent.
Blast off, and nuke Happy Valley from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
I want to hear your empathy for the innocent 10 year old victims of anal rape, NOT for the untouched football players there now...when other individuals at other programs did bad, it's ALWAYS others who did nothing who suffer too.
WRONG! PSU has had record contributions from it’s proud Alumni. I say cut off all Federal and State Aid. Save the taxpayers some money. Let Penn State support Penn State.
Everyone on FR can quit dreaming of the NCAA Death Penalty for the football program. It will not happen. The NCAA is a fraud organization. They operate like a useless government agency. The death of the football program is happening as it should. Great football players will no longer go there. Losing records, no bowl appearances, and national scorn for years to come. That is the reality.
Next up Alabama where Lou Saban’s daughter assaulted another girl on campus. No chance she’ll get off right? Hahaha! That incident will be buried so fast you better not blink or you will miss it.
I’ve said this repeatedly and I won’t repeat it again-—the guilty should be punished to the fullest extent of the law—anyone and everyone at the university from the president on down to the janitors who witnessed these acts and said nothing. Acts of commission and omission. The innocent, however, must never be punished. Period. I’m tired of repeating myself for those who don’t or won’t get it. I have the utmost compassion and empathy for the victims and their families but punishing the innocent will not make them whole.
I think you meant Nick Saban at Alabama, not Lou Saban, the other unrelated famous coach.
This happened at Penn State, but who doesn’t think this couldn’t happen at Alabama, Texas, Michigan, USC, or even at basketball powers like Kansas or North Carolina?
College sports is the most corrupt sporting institution in this country, hands down. Fans will overlook rape, murder, molesting, cheating, and other illegal and institutional violations, if it means conference championships, bowl victories, NCAA tournament runs, and national championships. Roll Tide; Hook em’ Horns, On Wisconsin, Rock Chalk Jayhawk, we are Penn State; win at all costs!!!! So what if our assistants molest over 50 kids, or our players rape girls all over campuses, or we pay players to come to our school, or violate so many NCAA violations. We won the NCAA tournament, or the Fiesta Bowl! Go team go!!!! Kentucky is so much of a better school than Rice, because they have won 8 national basketball championships, and Rice has won zero. And Alabama is a much better school than Northwestern, because Alabama has won 13 national football championships, and Northwestern has won zero.
In the SEC (Surely Everyone’s Cheating), every school except for Vanderbilt has had major NCAA violations since 1990. And why do these schools do it? Well, how many Sugar, Fiesta, Orange, and Rose Bowls, and national championships in football or basketball has Vanderbilt won? (actually ZERO - EVER!!!) How many has Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Florida, Arkansas, and Kentucky won just since 1990? In basketball, those teams have won 6 N.C., and in football they have won 12 national championships since 1990. Nobody cares how much the SEC schools cheat; its just their WINNING(Charlie Sheen??????) attitude that everyone cares about.
I have always had high regard and respect for the southern states as having more moral, God-fearing, descent folks than the rest of the country. I guess in college sports, though, they absolutely don’t.
“You make me sick.”
No truer words have been uttered in regard to old huck! He’s evidently a “sports cool aid drinker” who doesn’t believe that PSU should suffer ANY penalty. Well when they raid the whorehouse, they take the piano player too, and so it is that PSU, the school and all who go there, need to suffer for what their collective “support” for Joe Pa and “the program” have done to innocent lives. To suggest that PSU be allowed to go on it’s merry way now that Sandusky is in the slammer and Joe Pa is dead, is just ludicrous! Even today the trustees are having weak knees about dropping old Joe Pa’s statue because of “what the alumni might think.” So it’s all about the money, screw the lives of the kids who were raped.
The piano player knows what kind of business he's working for. Out of the many thousands associated with Penn State only a handful knew or suspected what had happened.
Do you yourself know what's going on -- in secret -- at your alma mater? How would you know whether one person at that university is molesting children, and a few others not doing enough to stop it? To use a phrase applied earlier to Penn State, would that make your alma mater -- tens of thousands of persons who knew nothing about it -- "a house of perversion"?
I don't have the stats in front of me, but I'd assume that out of every diverse group of tens of thousands of persons there would be criminals of various types: a child molester, a rapist, a sadistic wife-beater, thieves in considerable numbers, and maybe even a murderer. That's no reason to blame the others.
That's the least the NCAA should do - shut them down. That sends the message... other perverts are watching.
> In the SEC (Surely Everyone’s Cheating), every school except for Vanderbilt has had major NCAA violations since 1990...I have always had high regard and respect for the southern states as having more moral, God-fearing, descent folks than the rest of the country. I guess in college sports, though, they absolutely dont.
‘Major’ doesn’t necessarily mean it helped them significantly in winning (though I don’t doubt that some of that has occurred). My alma mater, the University of South Carolina, just got one for some players staying at a local hotel for a much lower long-term rate than ordinary customers (apparently the hotel benefited because other customers like to be around football players). It wasn’t accused of using that to gain a competitive advantage in recruiting, though, and the university itself took steps to remedy it (after its compliance officer had admittedly been grossly negligent in monitoring the situation).
I think the main reason the SEC tends to win in football is that recruits like to play in whatever conference is best at the moment, and right now that’s the SEC. Also that conference pays coaches a lot, and football is the major sport in the high schools, and a big part of popular culture.
The University of South Carolina won two straight national championships in baseball, though, and made it to the finals the third year (this year) without any scandal or credible accusation that it won because of cheating. It has had good coaches, and in recent years has built a nice stadium and facilities (totally within the rules). Also the climate of the South gives southern schools an advantage in baseball.
“You mean Paterno himself. It didnt give his schools team a competitive advantage. (In fact, from what youve said it appears the team would have been better off without him.)”
The scandal would have put the team at a disadvantage when it was time for them to recruit. They would have moved from being a first choice to a second choice at best and possibly even an “anywhere but” choice. Paterno may or may not have had saving his job as his first priority but the others clearly acted to protect their cash cow.
Nothing any other team did to help their program is 1/1,000th as contemptable as what Penn State did. The comments by Penn State supporters and officals show clearly that they still don’t understand just how vile the actions of Paterno and the other pedo protectors are. Perhaps if it is quiet in Happy Valley for a decade or so, they will have some time to reflect on why there is so much outrage. And they will stop trying to defend the indefensible. When that day comes, and they rip down the Paterno statues and rip his name off all the buildings. When Penn State students spit on the ground when they here his name, then and only then should they be allowed to field a team.
One thing that puzzles me is why, after the 1998 accusation to the campus police that led to Sandusky’s apparently forced retirement, Paterno and others at the university allowed him to have access to the campus and have an office there. I can understand why self-interest — avoiding a scandal — might influence them to let him retire and fade away quietly. If they really believed he was sodomizing children, though, rather than just involved in inappropriate horseplay, why didn’t they separate themselves more completely from him — if only to protect themselves and the university?
If they had, his later arrest and conviction over a decade later would have been an embarrassment to his former university, but people wouldn’t be talking about tearing down Paterno’s statue and giving the university a death penalty. I haven’t bothered to follow the details of this story, but that sounds to me as if Paterno and the other Penn State authorities thought Sandusky had shown poor judgment, but didn’t really believe he was molesting children.
Good analogy. There were many more people throughout the program who undoubtedly knew about Sandusky’s “proclivities.” the Romans had it right when they dealt with the perversions of Carthage.
“The piano player knows what kind of business he’s working for. “
Well, I graduated from the University of California at Berkeley many years ago, and I can tell you that I knew then just what a shit hole it was with the suborning of all the radicals, the ‘free speech movement,” the filthy speech movement, and all the bowel movements of the worthless turds who went there or hung out on Telegraph Avenue. It’s reputation then, as now as a premier institution of higher learning is undeserved. If I were to read that the whole place had burned to the ground, I would run back and dance around the ashes. An institution that I, as a native-born Californian should have revered, turned out to be a disgrace! So too should the decent students at Penn State demand that all those who ran the place and covered up manifold criminal and corrupt activities leave immediately and as they leave, offer an apologies to the students for their actions. As for the “athletic program,” tell me just what does it contribute to the learning process of higher education? You get a bunch of low lives who have to be propped up in their studies so they can learn what amounts to a trade ( a sport ). Collegiate athletics detract from the mission of a university, they don’t do one thing for the learning process. But I guess if you are a “frat boy,” they give you the “vehicle” to go get drunk at the stadium when there’s a home game, where the school has to shell out extra bucks for the campus cops to ride heard on the whole sorrid mess.
If I remember correctly, in the documents that Freeh release one was the request by Sandusky to have access to all the facilities. On the paper, in what has been identified as Paterno’s writing, is something to the effect of: Sandusky yes, Second Mile no, liability issue.
This is speculation but they probably gambled if they didn’t let Sandusky bring children on campus then they would be in the clear. Dont forget, they treat Sandusky like he was the victim in all of this. They never gave a seconds thought to the kids beyond the liability problems they might pose for Penn State.
Barring him from campus also poses problems, when they bar him people are going to ask why he doesnt have access to these places. After all it was clearly normal for former Penn State officials to have the use of the facilities on campus after they retired. It would raise a lot of uncomfortable questions. The campus is a public place, to really bar him they need a court order and to get that order theyd have to give a reason why. The best solution for the Penn State gang of four was to pretend nothing was wrong and that Sandusky retired because he was just too caring a guy who dedicated too much of his time to helping under privileged kids to be head coach and hope the whole thing disappeared until they were dead and gone.
I don’t really agree with the second paragraph, once they made the decision to cover up the crimes the damage was done. Their university in general and Paterno specifically would be wearing future assaults no matter where they occurred. The gambled that the assaults would only become public long after it was possible to prove that they took place and that they would have deniability.
If I may I d also like to comment on your Paterno serial killer analogy. For that analogy to be correct, Paterno would have to be killing star players on other teams just before they had a big game against Penn State. Spanier, Curley and Shultz would have to have helped plan and carry out the killings. And of course the reason they did it would have to be to protect Penn States football industry. Other lower ranking people in the Penn State organization would have to know about the killings but they would have to remain silent about them out of fear of what Paterno would do to them.
Nothing any other team has ever done is 1/1,000th as vile as this. If any program ever deserved to be shut down it is this one. If anyone on the Penn State board had a shred of decency they would have killed the program or they would be resigning and announcing that the reason why was the other board members refused to shut down the team. If Penn State fans had a shed of decency they would demanding that Paternos name removed from anything associated with the university and they would be doing a lot of soul searching about what kind of cult has been created at Penn State. That none of that has happened, that Penn State fans and students are tired of hearing about the rapes and want to get on to important matters like next years football season and celebrating the wonderfulness of Jopa, clearly shows that attitudes that lead to the cover up are alive and well at Penn State. That alone is reason enough to end their playing days.
Sorry that my reply is so long
Ah, but that sort of thing poses the only threat the NCAA cares about...namely anything that threatens the profit margin, such as the very notion that the reason people watch college sports (the players) should be compensated with anything other than the free "education" they get. As for Penn State, of course the football program should be shut down (for at least a year), but it won't be. The interests of children don't stand a chance up against Big Time College Football.
In the indices of the Freeh report, there are several letters and memos from Sandusky to University officials at the time of his retirement. There are what some (myself included) call veiled threats that if the University wants him to keep his mouth shut, they should give him what he wants. That includes the aforementioned access to school facilities, as well as being set up to coach middle school football, a request that was signed-off in the margins of the retirement agreement by Paterno himself, with the notes, and I quote “6th, 7th and 8th grade children” in Paterno’s own handwriting. That, along with an unprecdented one time payment of $168,000 to Sandusky as part of his retirement certainly makes it look like Sandusky had them by the shorts and knew it.
Clearly Paterno and the University just didn’t care that young boys were being raped and sodomized, and were prepared to provide Sandusky with a steady stream of victims to buy his silence. As for Sandusky, his behavior with his requests leads me to believe that the University was covering his tracks for a longtime, and he felt more than comfortable in blackmailing them because of it. Whatever else he feared, he did not fear exposure by Penn State. He knew they had as much to lose as him.
I have a low opinion of the academic and sports establishment too, primarily because of its bias and fostering of leftist views (which are widespread, not just characteristic of a few). I don’t like blaming universities of tens of thousands of people, though, for crimes that most of them abhor, and for which they were not responsible.
As sports themselves, I like them. They’re fun. I was a good student and not a frat boy, but think there’s room at school for sports and academics too. Cheating can be a problem, but at their best sports teach discipline and fair play.
I don’t see how Sandusky would be in the position to blackmail the university in 1998. Not every accusation is true, so I don’t think the initial reaction from Penn State was so bad. It was the stuff after 2002 that’s indefensible.
No problem with the long post. People who stay around after the initial brief responses are usually willing to read them. Otherwise they would have moved on. There’s no way to get into the details without writing long posts.
I don’t think the first accusation alone (1998) was enough to prove that Sandusky was guilty. That one was just for inappropriate touching, which could have been misinterpreted (or it could simply have been a false accusation, though in retropect I think it was true. I recall that a bishop or archbishop in Chicago was accused, and later his accuser admitted that he made it up.) “Horseplay” with a naked boy in a shower is irresponsible behavior at best, though, so he was in a position in which he should have been willing to agree to anything the university demanded.
You’re right that banning him outright would have been difficult to explain without creating a scandal. You mentioned a publicly acceptable reason for not bringing boys there, though, the liability one. As for Sandusky himself, if he wanted to keep his good reputation, he should have thought of a reason for not being on campus — a personal conflict, whatever. Especially after the second accusation (the one from the graduate assistant McQueary in 2002), he was in a position in which his alternatives should have been nothing but bad or worse. Here Sandusky was, again in a shower with a naked boy. No innocent person with a grain of sense would put himself in that situation again after the first accusation.