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Scotland's 'explosive' push to secede from the U.K.
The Week ^ | JANUARY 13, 2012,

Posted on 07/15/2012 11:03:50 AM PDT by robowombat

Scotland's 'explosive' push to secede from the U.K. Scotland's first minister promises to hold a referendum on Scottish independence. Could it really succeed? POSTED ON JANUARY 13, 2012, AT 5:21 PM

Scottish nationalists have dreamed of independence for centuries, and now, Scotland First Minister Alex Salmond is really trying to pull it off. Salmond has announced plans to hold a referendum in fall 2014 on breaking away from the United Kingdom, setting off a week of friction between Edinburgh and London. Will Scotland and the U.K. really part ways? Here's what you should know:

What exactly is Scotland's relationship to the U.K.? More than 300 years ago, Scotland and England were joined by the Act of Union that formally created the U.K. (the two nations, though separate, had already been ruled by one king for more than a century). Today, Queen Elizabeth II is still Scotland's head of state. Scotland has a government, legal system, and parliament of its own, in addition to representatives in the U.K. Parliament.

And Scotland wants independence? Some Scots do. Such talk has been percolating ever since 1707, when the U.K. was formed. But over the centuries, there didn't seem to be much chance that the split would actually happen. Now, says Alex Massie at The Daily Beast, "for the first time since Bonnie Prince Charlie led an army of Highland Scots into England in 1745, the survival of the United Kingdom is in doubt."

What's driving this latest push? In the 1980s, conservative Tories failed to deliver a promised referendum to establish a Scottish assembly and faced a brutal backlash from voters. The Labor party didn't want to make the same mistake, and in 1997, a referendum passed leading to the creation of the Scottish Parliament. There, resurgent Scottish national sentiment has thrived. One major driver: The common wisdom that unity with its larger neighbor was essential for Scotland's prosperity has eroded over the last few decades, particularly as Scotland's heavy industry declined.

But why now? Last May, Salmond's Scottish National Party won 69 of Parliament's 129 seats. It was "a thumping, astonishing victory" when you consider there are five parties in the system, Massie says, and the seemingly clear and overwhelming mandate made a referendum on independence "inevitable." Indeed, it makes perfect sense that this would be happening now, says Heather Horn at The Atlantic. Europe is in the grip of a painful economic crisis, and "nationalism surges as economies stagnate."

So is this the end of the union? Not necessarily. A referendum is bound to be "explosive," says Anna Tomforde at Monsters and Critics. And its success or failure could depend on many variables — such as whether it's a yes-or-no vote on full independence, or a multi-question ballot with a middle-ground option maintaining an element of unity. Despite Salmond's popularity, polls suggest most Scots don't actually support full independence. Thirty-five percent want to be a completely separate nation, while 55 percent remain opposed. So the government in London, which at first insisted that British Parliament would have to OK any vote, is now pushing for a referendum as soon as possible, says Agence France Presse, so Salmond won't have time to win over a majority.

Sources: AFP, Atlantic, Daily Beast, Guardian, Monsters and Critics, Telegraph


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: scotland; scotlandyet; unitedkingdom
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1 posted on 07/15/2012 11:03:53 AM PDT by robowombat
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To: robowombat

OK, we have that out of the way..

2 posted on 07/15/2012 11:09:06 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (obozo could bring back literal slavery with chains and still he will get 85+% of the black vote)
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To: robowombat

Crikeys! Put another shrimp on the barbie and watch how this turns out.


3 posted on 07/15/2012 12:02:08 PM PDT by MuttTheHoople (Obama doesn’t have the work ethic to be Anti-Christ.)
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To: robowombat
In the spirit of it's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness, I have just made a modest contribution to the Freepathon.
What was that statistic from years past?

If just a quarter of regular daily visitors donated $1 a month, we would have no Freepathons and equipment could get regular preventive maintenance? Maybe even have standby servers?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

4 posted on 07/15/2012 12:25:23 PM PDT by publius911 (Formerly Publius 6961, formerly jennsdad)
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To: robowombat
I have just two tiny but intriguing questions.
Might Scotland be starting to have troubles with the Koranimal invasion that England can't seem to cope with?
Might this have a bearing on current events?

Just wondering.

5 posted on 07/15/2012 12:33:12 PM PDT by publius911 (Formerly Publius 6961, formerly jennsdad)
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To: robowombat
Say goodbye to the £20Bn subsidy Scotland receives each year to maintain its self. It will be good to have a little bit of piece and quiet without the constant whining about things that happened centuries ago.
Oh boy, Scotland your in for some fun times ,Bye!
6 posted on 07/15/2012 12:33:36 PM PDT by moose07 (The truth will out, one day.)
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To: freedumb2003

"Aye, the haggis is in the fire for sure..."

7 posted on 07/15/2012 12:46:09 PM PDT by mikrofon (Another "Scott" ;)
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To: robowombat

How important is this issue to people in Scotland and England these days? Does anyone care one way or another?


8 posted on 07/15/2012 12:48:26 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: moose07
Oh boy, Scotland your [sic] in for some fun times ,Bye!

I see it so much differently.

No matter what difficulties, or hard times Scotland faces, I can say this without hesitation:

If I had the only choices of living in Scotland or England today, it would be no contest.

Scotland.

9 posted on 07/15/2012 12:54:09 PM PDT by publius911 (Formerly Publius 6961, formerly jennsdad)
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To: robowombat; MuttTheHoople; publius911; AnotherUnixGeek

I’m always amused by so many european nation-wanna-be’s who can’t wait to become independent from the country they’re currently part of to then rush to become slaves of the EU.

I’m sure Scotland would follow the path of the Baltic countries, the slovaks, and the former yugoslavian provinces.


10 posted on 07/15/2012 1:09:58 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: publius911
If I had the only choices of living in Scotland or England today, it would be no contest. Scotland.

Believe it or not, i agree with you,and wish them well for the future.
Scotland is a beautiful country, and deserves to be independent.
Just hope the people look before they leap!

11 posted on 07/15/2012 1:34:39 PM PDT by moose07 (The truth will out, one day.)
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To: robowombat

An independent Scotland would be a blow against spreading Islam!!!


12 posted on 07/15/2012 2:47:36 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: robowombat

If the Scottish want to get out of the stinkin’ EU this is one way to do it. London and South England have more affinity with The Continentals than does further away from Brussels, Scotland


13 posted on 07/15/2012 2:55:07 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: robowombat
Braveheart speech Pictures, Images and Photos
14 posted on 07/15/2012 3:00:18 PM PDT by DFG ("Dumb, Dependent, and Democrat is no way to go through life" - Louie Gohmert (R-TX))
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To: moose07

80%of Scotland’s economy is government based, either from government employment or welfare payments. It’s a huge sink for funds from the south.


15 posted on 07/15/2012 3:04:41 PM PDT by Kozak (The means of defence against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home JM)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks robowombat.


16 posted on 07/15/2012 3:22:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: publius911

Good reminder. Cracking open wallet now.


17 posted on 07/15/2012 3:32:59 PM PDT by MattinNJ (Romney? Really? Seriously?)
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To: robowombat

Time to rebuild Hadrian’s Wall?


18 posted on 07/15/2012 3:45:27 PM PDT by eddie willers
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To: Kozak

It seems that most of FR don’t know how much of a socialist parasite Scotland is to England? It sucks up vast amounts of government benefits and contributes little financially.


19 posted on 07/15/2012 4:13:50 PM PDT by packrat35 (Admit it! We are almost ready to be called a police state!)
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To: robowombat

Let the Scottish socialists and welfare whores have their own country. They will soon starve or be forced to abandon socialism. They won’t be able to live off England any more. Meanwhile, Labour will collapse.


20 posted on 07/15/2012 4:21:38 PM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: packrat35

Most American’s don’t know how bad Scotland is. (I suggest that they watch “Trainspotting”.) Seriously though, it is a socialist wreck living off the welfare they vote on to steal from the English. I don’t believe that there is a single “Conservative” constituency in Scotland anymore.


21 posted on 07/15/2012 4:27:57 PM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: publius911

“If I had the only choices of living in Scotland or England today, it would be no contest.

Scotland.”

Well, it’s not often on Freerepublic someone admits to wanting to live in an entirely socialist country!

The polls on this topic are interesting - every poll shows the English are far more keen for Scotland to become independent than the scots are. Scottish independence would be great news for British conservatives - the scots have 1 conservative and 50 socialist MP’s at Westminster. When Scotland is gone it will be much harder for labour to win a general election.

Of course independence is a relative thing - the nationalists still want to keep the queen as their head of state and the pound as their currency but of course pretty soon they’ll get swallowed up by the EU and become just another Ireland on the balance sheets.

Still fancy it?


22 posted on 07/15/2012 4:33:55 PM PDT by Caulkhead
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To: rmlew

That’s because the best of the Scots emigrated to the US long ago.


23 posted on 07/15/2012 4:34:09 PM PDT by packrat35 (Admit it! We are almost ready to be called a police state!)
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To: publius911

Aye, Laddie...as with me.

Scotland is it. If they were to set up an environment that enticed business and manufacturing, it could do well.

The mountains are most beautiful...


24 posted on 07/15/2012 4:41:25 PM PDT by LachlanMinnesota
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To: moose07

“Scotland is a beautiful country, and deserves to be independent.”

Hmmm, only if you can build a high, containing wall around glasgow. The rest of Scotland might then become a reasonable place to be.


25 posted on 07/15/2012 4:42:26 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders.)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

Wall on hot standby...LOL.


26 posted on 07/15/2012 4:47:15 PM PDT by moose07 (The truth will out, one day.)
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Click the link. The Republic you save may be your own.

27 posted on 07/15/2012 5:04:40 PM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93destr)
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To: robowombat

I can’t think of anything that Scotland alone can offer the world in exchange for money and food.


28 posted on 07/15/2012 5:46:05 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Obamaid has to go.)
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To: Mike Darancette
I can’t think of anything that Scotland alone can offer the world in exchange for money and food.

The best bagpipe concerts........well, I guess Canada puts on the best concerts, so.....I'm not sure. Great wool?

29 posted on 07/15/2012 6:03:18 PM PDT by Pure Country (“I’ve noticed that every person that is for abortion has already been born.” -Ronald Reagan)
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To: robowombat
The Romans were smart cookies. Hadrian's wall is the southern boundary of the worlds largest insane asylum.
30 posted on 07/15/2012 6:07:58 PM PDT by OSHA (One despises and wants to destroy the United States, the other is a dead terrorist.)
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To: moose07
Say goodbye to the £20Bn subsidy Scotland receives each year to maintain its self. It will be good to have a little bit of piece and quiet without the constant whining about things that happened centuries ago. Oh boy, Scotland your in for some fun times ,Bye!

The Scots most likely will pick up ownership of the oil fields of their coast.

31 posted on 07/15/2012 6:21:06 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: moose07
Say goodbye to the £20Bn subsidy Scotland receives each year to maintain its self. It will be good to have a little bit of piece and quiet without the constant whining about things that happened centuries ago. Oh boy, Scotland your in for some fun times ,Bye!

The Scots most likely will pick up ownership of the oil fields of their coast.

32 posted on 07/15/2012 6:21:06 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: packrat35
That’s because the best of the Scots emigrated to the US long ago.

They got thrown out in the Highland clearances to make pastures for sheep owned by English lords.

33 posted on 07/15/2012 6:25:31 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
The Scots most likely will pick up ownership of the oil fields of their coast.

That is probably most likely, however most are outside the Twelve mile territorial limit.
Should be an interesting bun-fight.

34 posted on 07/15/2012 6:42:58 PM PDT by moose07 (The truth will out, one day.)
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To: packrat35
I started a pretty good fight with those words in a Glasgow pub a few years back. As a Wallace, my time in Scotland was equal parts joy and bitter disappointment... and a couple of good scuffles.
35 posted on 07/15/2012 6:43:37 PM PDT by Uriah_lost (Is there no balm in Gilead?....MiE (Mainer in Exile))
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

and promptly surrender them to their new masters in Brussels....


36 posted on 07/15/2012 6:45:30 PM PDT by Uriah_lost (Is there no balm in Gilead?....MiE (Mainer in Exile))
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To: moose07
Say goodbye to the £20Bn subsidy Scotland receives each year to maintain its self. It will be good to have a little bit of piece and quiet without the constant whining about things that happened centuries ago.

Well since the brave Scots would no longer be feeding the Inland Revenue Service I would say they will come out ahead. Now where is my bottle of Dewars?

37 posted on 07/15/2012 6:53:47 PM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
I wish them well, and hope they can feed their own exchequer with enough revenue to operate the country in the manner to which they have become accustomed.
£11k per head from the government to subsidise all services as opposed to £10K for the rest of the U.K.
Money flows both ways across that border not just one way.
Last year Scotland provided 9.3% (6 billion of that from Oil) of the U.K revenues and received 9.4% in return,with defence etc given for free.
The extra loads put on their economy will be bailed out by the E.U no doubt.
I hope they think long and hard about this and don't just act out of bravado.
38 posted on 07/15/2012 7:46:35 PM PDT by moose07 (The truth will out, one day.)
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To: moose07

Well one would think that the Scots would be MORE free than in the UK. It wouldn’t make sense to leave one set of political /economical constraints for even more constraints and less freedom. A Scotland unencumbered by the rigors of Central govt might prosper. Showing us the way. Couldn’t hurt, what’s happening now isn’t sustainable.


39 posted on 07/15/2012 8:01:54 PM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
Well one would think that the Scots would be MORE free than in the UK. It wouldn’t make sense to leave one set of political /economical constraints for even more constraints and less freedom. A Scotland unencumbered by the rigors of Central govt might prosper. Showing us the way. Couldn’t hurt, what’s happening now isn’t sustainable.

Their current laws are actually more supportive of freedom than Englands already,eg right to roam.
If they do achieve even half of what you have stated then i for one will be moving north.
We will keep an eye on proceedings with interest, in the mean time must go ,goodnight.

40 posted on 07/15/2012 8:17:29 PM PDT by moose07 (The truth will out, one day.)
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To: Pure Country

Well there is Laphroaig!


41 posted on 07/15/2012 8:23:31 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Obamaid has to go.)
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To: freedumb2003

I had an epiphany of Sarah Palin in war paint, the Tea Party is a fully armed organize continental militia and she leads the nation to a better future than what the communists have done.


42 posted on 07/15/2012 8:38:36 PM PDT by Eye of Unk (Going mobile, posts will be brief. No spellcheck for the grammar nazis.)
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To: Pure Country

Yup, Canada has the best in bagpipes: see offkilter.net


43 posted on 07/15/2012 8:49:11 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: rmlew

“Labour will collapse.”

Ah, this makes me think that there will be a huge fight to stop the split from happening. It would be a wonderful thing, though.

The sorry state of Scotland makes me sad. As a Presbyterian, I hate seeing what has become of the holy land. ;-)


44 posted on 07/15/2012 9:35:49 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: Mike Darancette

Natural gas and oil and lots of it.


45 posted on 07/15/2012 11:16:31 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: rmlew
It could hardly be worse than the Tyneside. The cities around Sheffield make the deidustrialized towns along the Ohio River in WVA and Ohio look like economic dynamos in comparison. Places like that are incredibly depressing with the ambiance of the power and energy that they once contained and the reality of the glory forever flown that they now display.
46 posted on 07/15/2012 11:24:02 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: Caulkhead

For starters, I think this is a great idea.

One of the best ways to get rid of socialism is to force these twerps to pay their own way. Once done, suddenly socialism doesn’t look quite so attractive.

So the best way to get the Scots’ heads out from under their kilts is to cut them off from the subsidy from England. Force them to reckon with the costs of their political class.

The other upside is that the English political system will be rid of the grifters from the north, as you point out.


47 posted on 07/16/2012 12:08:57 AM PDT by NVDave
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To: Kozak

It’s nowhere near that high.

Government employment in Scotland is a bit under 25% (remember, their NHS means that most medical professionals are considered government employees) and they have about 11% of working age people on the dole.

If you look at the Scottish economy, they’re operating at a trade deficit without the North Sea oil, and they’d be just about break-even with the North Sea Oil included in their economic stats. That’s better than the US is doing...


48 posted on 07/16/2012 12:27:26 AM PDT by NVDave
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To: NVDave

Of course the Scots would argue they are net contributors to the UK as they believe the north sea oil belongs to Scotland, not to the UK. . . . . .

Scotland is a lovely place, but as you say, when scottish tax-payers have to fund their ‘everything free’ system by themselves it won’t be so much fun.

Whilst I want Scotland to become independent I doubt it will happen soon. The current financial fiasco that is the euro makes this an incredibly dangerous time for tiny countries to want to become ‘independent’.


49 posted on 07/16/2012 3:47:50 AM PDT by Caulkhead
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To: Caulkhead

Then if they’re smart, they don’t join the Euro. That simple. They retain the Scottish Pound and if they’re smart, they back it with metal. If they were to do that and have banking transparency, they’d have a flood of money washing up on their shores. Their problem wouldn’t be a lack of money, it would be the same problem the Swiss are having - the Swiss Franc has to be deliberately devalued so as to maintain some level of export pricing viability.

I examined the numbers last night on Scottish GDP with and without north sea oil. Without the oil factored in, they’re doing a bit better than the US is, financially. Now, you can look at that either one of two ways, in light of your comments....


50 posted on 07/16/2012 6:03:19 AM PDT by NVDave
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