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Democrats threaten to go over ‘fiscal cliff’ if GOP fails to raise taxes
Washington Post ^

Posted on 07/16/2012 2:04:18 AM PDT by sunmars

Democrats are making increasingly explicit threats about their willingness to let nearly $600 billion worth of tax hikes and spending cuts take effect in January unless Republicans drop their opposition to higher taxes for the nation’s wealthiest households.

Emboldened by signs that GOP resistance to new taxes may be weakening, senior Democrats say they are prepared to weather a fiscal event that could plunge the nation back into recession if the new year arrives without an acceptable compromise.

In a speech Monday, Sen. Patty Murray (Wash.), the Senate’s No. 4 Democrat and the leader of the caucus’s campaign arm, plans to make the clearest case yet for going over what some have called the “fiscal cliff.”

“If we can’t get a good deal, a balanced deal that calls on the wealthy to pay their fair share, then I will absolutely continue this debate into 2013,” Murray plans to say, according to excerpts of the speech provided to The Washington Post.

If the tax cuts from the George W. Bush era expire and taxes go up for everyone, the debate will be reset, Murray is expected to say. “Every proposal will be a tax-cut proposal,” according to the excerpts, and Republicans would no longer be “boxed in” by their pledge not to raise taxes.

“If middle-class families start seeing more money coming out of their paychecks next year, are Republicans really going to stand up and fight for new tax cuts for the rich? Are they going to continue opposing the Democrats’ middle-class tax cut once the slate has been wiped clean? I think they know this would be an untenable political position.”

Murray’s address, set to be delivered at the Brookings Institution, is meant to influence both the Nov. 6 election and the lame-duck legislative session in November and December

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Business/Economy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 112th; classwarfare; federalspending; pattymurray; taxandspend; taxes; taxincrease
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To: RC one
The road to hell is paved by Democrats.

With other people's money...

101 posted on 07/16/2012 11:06:46 AM PDT by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwaet! Lar bith maest hord, sothlice!)
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To: CaspersGh0sts
"The debt ceiling will be reached in October by current projections. This is no time to back off from the Dems. Take them to the mat and blame them for it all—their failure to produce budgets, to stimulate the economy, and all the lot.

The Pubbies need to get out there and say "We gave President Obama all the borrowing authority he said he needed to get past the election. But it's now not enough. With the democrats it's never enough. Do your children deserve the burden of ever expanding debt?"

102 posted on 07/16/2012 11:08:19 AM PDT by In Maryland (Don't Send Law Enforcement to a gunfight carrying BEANBAGS!!!)
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To: IMR 4350

I was thinking exactly the same as you after reading that post.


103 posted on 07/16/2012 11:22:51 AM PDT by sanjuanbob
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To: wita

If businesses were not overwhelmed by these bureaucrat leeches they could/would feel comfortable to hire more people.

Take the friction away and things get done.

There are 2 kinds of people: those who talk about doing things and those who do things.


104 posted on 07/16/2012 11:32:51 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: sunmars
Democrats are making increasingly explicit threats about their willingness to let nearly $600 billion worth of tax hikes and spending cuts take effect in January unless Republicans drop their opposition to higher taxes for the nation’s wealthiest households.

I was so outraged this morning when I heard about this. The Dems decided to make everyone in the United States suffer, because they think it is a beneficial political tactic for them? Really?

This should be played by every Republican candidate. The ads write themselves. As for Patty Murray --- (sigh) she is my Senator. I've never voted for her; but, I'm stuck with her nonetheless.

105 posted on 07/16/2012 11:40:45 AM PDT by LibertarianLiz
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To: IMR 4350

I am talking about PRIVATE sector unions. They aren’t driving anyone’s costs up. Get a clue. I am not in a union but I know a scapegoat when I see one. A straw man for the gloBULList.


106 posted on 07/16/2012 11:57:30 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
Unions are anti-competitive by their very nature. They stifle innovation and initiative AS A BASIC FUNCTION OF THEIR EXISTENCE.

I don't know how any sane person could claim otherwise.

107 posted on 07/16/2012 12:15:08 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Private sector union participation is at 6.5%. The claim was a $1.00USD screwdriver made by Chinese slaves would cost $10.00USD if made in the USA. That is just insane. At most labor accounts for 10% of any manufactured item, so it MIGHT cost $1.10USD not $10.0USD.


108 posted on 07/16/2012 12:20:14 PM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: IMR 4350
Everyone should be forced to pay $10 for a US, union made screw driver just to change a light switch, instead of paying $1 for a Chinese made screw driver to change that light switch.

You forgot the /s.................

109 posted on 07/16/2012 12:29:09 PM PDT by Osage Orange (8675309)
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To: All


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110 posted on 07/16/2012 12:33:23 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: Salman

Said the suicide after he jumped off the building but before he hit the ground, “so far so good”. We’re already over the cliff in free fall just waiting to hit the ground.


111 posted on 07/16/2012 12:45:02 PM PDT by Locomotive Breath
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To: sanjuanbob

Sometimes you need the best, sometimes second best will do.

There is no way possible I would try and use Chinese made pipe wrenches for oilfield work. You’ll end up on your ass in a heartbeat. If they don’t break they will bend on you.

At the same time you don’t need a $50 pipe wrench to clean out the trap on your drain. A $10 pipe wrench will do just as good. and you have $40 bucks to spend on something else.

American made is fine, but it’s just not necessary all the time.

Your going broke doesn’t help anybody and I don’t know why some of these people can’t see that.


112 posted on 07/16/2012 2:02:28 PM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: central_va
Yes they are.

I worked in a shipyard that had unions, I didn't join.

We were building destroyers for the navy.

The cost of those destroyers were apx 1/3 more than they would have been had it not been union.

On union jobs, if you need X number of people to do the job, the union will require you to hire not just the X number of people that are needed to do the job, but also Y number of extra people.

The extra cost of people that aren't needed is passed on just like the cost of the people that are needed.

113 posted on 07/16/2012 2:16:38 PM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: sunmars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-cnBGMMmCI


114 posted on 07/16/2012 2:23:04 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: RatRipper

Besides, every tax dollar “raised” turns into $1.50 more spending by Dems.


115 posted on 07/16/2012 2:28:59 PM PDT by Fledermaus (Democrats are dangerous and evil. Republicans are useless and useful idiots.)
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To: ichabod1

“Compromise” in politics means throwing your principles out the window and agreeing with the left.

No thanks.


116 posted on 07/16/2012 2:31:14 PM PDT by Fledermaus (Democrats are dangerous and evil. Republicans are useless and useful idiots.)
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To: central_va

Labor is the single largest cost for any business. I’d like to see your source for “at most accounts for 10% of a manufactured item”.


117 posted on 07/16/2012 2:35:26 PM PDT by Fledermaus (Democrats are dangerous and evil. Republicans are useless and useful idiots.)
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To: IMR 4350

Building Navy ships is not private sector. Apples to oranges.


118 posted on 07/16/2012 2:36:30 PM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Fledermaus
Labor is the single largest cost for any business. I’d like to see your source for “at most accounts for 10% of a manufactured item”.

Here is your answer:

in the US, it takes about 30 hours total, for the body, engine, transmission, assembly, paint, etc. doesn't include things like outsourced parts and mining the ore (or recycling old cars). the labor costs from $55-$70 per hour including benefits so about $2100 per car, or roughly 8% the cost of the average car. doesn't sound that high until you compare the tata nano, which costs $2500 total.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_labor_cost_to_build_a_new_car#ixzz20pFSqHqM

119 posted on 07/16/2012 3:03:15 PM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

That’s cost analysis done by us bean counters for pricing.

Overall labor costs are what drove GM to bankruptcy with fat union contracts paying people for life.


120 posted on 07/16/2012 3:13:35 PM PDT by Fledermaus (Democrats are dangerous and evil. Republicans are useless and useful idiots.)
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To: Fledermaus
Ok read the whole thing. The labor figure INCLUDES current retiree benefits.. Look I can lead you to watrer but if you are to brainwashed to see what is in front of you eyes then you are acting like a "Donkey"


--------------------

In the US, it takes about 30 hours total, for the body, engine, transmission, assembly, paint, etc. doesn't include things like outsourced parts and mining the ore (or recycling old cars). the labor costs from $55-$70 per hour including benefits so about $2100 per car, or roughly 8% the cost of the average car. doesn't sound that high until you compare the tata nano, which costs $2500 total. Labor costs are higher at companies with older presences, because they tend to have more expensive health care, larger families, and because the pensions become more expensive over time. national healthcare and pensions would make doing business a lot easier. Ford and GM pay ~$70 and Toyota pays ~$55. Source unknown.

$70/hr sounds like a ton of money, but starting wage for laborers is only about $14/hr....barely enough to pay the bills in the US. The top earners make $29/hr. Health care and pensions cost equivalent of about $15/hr, vacation time, overtime, sick leave are the equivalent of roughly $10 per hour. Benefits for retirees are roughly $15/hr (this isn't really wages by most definitions but ends up in all the reports). Maybe its time for the US government to step up and provide reasonable healthcare for working and retired people who pay taxes all their lives? Source unknown.

The difference in *time to build a car* between manufacturers is small (10% difference from worst to best). So the difference in *cost to build a car* between Ford's and Toyota's labor cost per vehicle is $15/hr * 30 hours + $70/hr * 2hrs, or roughly $600 , or < 3% of total cost. Source unknown.

Another question to ask is how much does *overhead* cost to build a new car? How much in management, paper pushing, legal fees, etc. Also, instead of beating that old dead horse of the cost of labor (heard it since the 70's!), it might be interesting to know why some manufacturers have better looking, more fun to drive, more reliable vehicles. Making a better-organized dashboard is free....so who are the managers that think this is a bad idea? Who was the brains behind the Pontiac Aztec? Why does GM use cheap plastic instead of more sturdy stuff for $5 more? There are great designers, engineers, craftsmen, and businesspeople in the US. They just don't work in lofty places at the big 3! Source unknown.

The cost of a car or just about anything is the cost of labor. The labor to make the robots that assemble the cars, the labor to build the buildings. the labor for outsourced parts, and even the labor earnings that was invested to buy the land.

beer is an alcoholic drink and you might pee your pants but pooping would be better for your health and if you eat a burrito dont eat beans cause youll fart up a storm

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_labor_cost_to_build_a_new_car#ixzz20pJmsIGB

121 posted on 07/16/2012 3:21:17 PM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: sunmars

I heard some commie ‘RAT say that the REPUBLICANS are playing chicken with this. If you take a breath, get yourself in a thoughtful mood and really think about it, it’s the ‘RATS who are playing chicken here.


122 posted on 07/16/2012 6:51:51 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Who is Barack Hussein Obama?)
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To: Baynative

Patty Murray is an embarrassment! What an idiot!


123 posted on 07/16/2012 7:36:14 PM PDT by tallyhoe
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To: sunmars

Let the tax hikes come, no more unequal taxation!


124 posted on 07/16/2012 8:22:15 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: SatinDoll
Higher Taxes Won't Reduce the Deficit

History shows that when Congress gets more revenue, the pols spend it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704648604575620502560925156.html?mod=djemEditorialPage_h

In the late 1980s, one of us, Richard Vedder, and Lowell Gallaway of Ohio University co-authored a often-cited research paper for the congressional Joint Economic Committee (known as the $1.58 study) that found that every new dollar of new taxes led to more than one dollar of new spending by Congress. Subsequent revisions of the study over the next decade found similar results.

But no matter how we configured the data and no matter what variables we examined, higher tax collections never resulted in less spending.

"Polls consistently find that a majority of Americans believe any new taxes will be spent by the politicians," pollster Scott Rasmussen told us recently in an interview. The grand bargain so many in Washington yearn for—tax increases coupled with spending cuts—is a fool's errand. Our research confirms what the late economist Milton Friedman said of Congress many years ago: "Politicians will always spend every penny of tax raised and whatever else they can get away with."

125 posted on 07/16/2012 8:41:18 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: Baynative

“Patty Murray is such an embarrassment...”

But you repeat yourself...


126 posted on 07/16/2012 9:30:59 PM PDT by castlebrew (Gun control means hitting where you're aiming!)
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To: sunmars

Call the bluff, Tester, McCaskill, Bill Nelson, Ben Nelson (Leaving), Conrad leaving, and Webb leaving. If McConnell makes them vote on raising everyones taxes let them do it.


127 posted on 07/16/2012 9:40:46 PM PDT by Steelers6
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Sending production to China is not working people. Sending production to China is HELPING OUR ENEMIES. Bring back production, and stop helping our enemies!!

I remember not too many years ago, some people here were telling all what a benefit it was having products made in Red China as it made them so affordable.

Boy, that worked out great.

Send all your jobs and production overseas, while flooding this country with tens of millions of illegals...

National suicide.

128 posted on 07/16/2012 10:34:43 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: matt04

“May” be weakening? When was GOP opposition to increased taxes strong? McConnell and Boehner are both weaklings and equivocators. America is in crisis and there is no leadership.


129 posted on 07/17/2012 6:29:48 AM PDT by littleharbour
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To: RC one
The road to hell is paved by Democrats.

Using stimulus money!

130 posted on 07/17/2012 8:29:45 AM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: justlurking

Thank you jl.


131 posted on 07/17/2012 3:35:41 PM PDT by David Isaac
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