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Obama And Romney Are Wrong: Outsourcing Is Actually America At Its Best
Forbes ^ | 07/28/2012 | Harry Binswanger

Posted on 07/28/2012 4:02:37 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

Mitt Romney and Barack Obama are currently fighting over who is the more patriotic. Obama slams Romney for having outsourced jobs to China during his Bain Capital days. Romney punches back by labeling Obama “Outsourcer in Chief.” The latest is that both John Boehner and Harry Reid are voicing outrage over America’s made-in-China Olympic uniforms. “Burn them!” thunders Reid.

Republicans and Democrats strangely agree that outsourcing is unpatriotic, and that the moral and patriotic thing to do is to “Hire American” and “Buy American.”

Well, no. Not in a thousand years. The fear of outsourcing and international trade is economic nonsense and moral blindness. More than that: this anti-profit attitude is un-American.

Despite the ongoing Europeanization of America, America still symbolizes the land of freedom, entrepreneurship, profit-making, above all, individualism.

But collectivism is the premise of “Hire/Buy American”: we are to view ourselves and others not as individuals, but as units of a nation. Businesses are urged to pay more in labor costs, simply to hire workers who are American; consumers are urged to forgo Walmart’s low prices, pay more, simply because the pricier goods were made by “our guys.” This is not rational patriotism, it is not Americanism, it's primitive tribalism.

American individualism means making buying decisions on the basis of economic merit, giving no regard to the nationality or race of the seller. Let’s not hide behind patriotic-sounding slogans. Let’s name things straight for a change: giving preference to American sellers over foreign sellers is the same mindless injustice as giving preference to sellers who are white over those who are black.

Economic nationalism is as morally outrageous as racism. Buying on the basis of nationality or race is the same collectivist evil: judging men and their products by the group from which they come, not by merit.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bolsteryourenemy; outsourcing; suicidaltrade
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1 posted on 07/28/2012 4:02:48 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
I guess Alexander Hamilton is wrong also.
Not only the wealth, but the independence and security of a country, appear to be materially connected with the prosperity of manufactures. Every nation, with a view to those great objects, ought to endeavor to possess within itself all the essentials of national supply. These comprise the means of subsistence, habitation, clothing and defense. …

2 posted on 07/28/2012 4:11:39 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: SeekAndFind

I would recommend this fool take a look at what has happened to two nations in the last twenty years.

China
The United States

Perhaps if he thinks about it long enough, he’ll be able to figure out which nation got the best of the Free Trade deal.

One nation is growing like gang-busters.

One nation is slipping over the edge toward third world status.

Right now were poised to slice and dice our military. China is building it’s military as fast as it can.

Anyone at this point, that can’t see the hand-writing on the wall as it relates to manufacturing at home and abroad, is a damned fool or an out and out traitor.


3 posted on 07/28/2012 4:13:09 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: SeekAndFind

This author does make a point. I don’t agree with all of it but he does have a point.

And although the words have been misused by others I think that Business be it a Corporation or a mom and pop Sole proprietorship need to think about where there customer base is coming from. Some call this Corporate-Citizenship I call it smart business sense.

If the customer base you are developing is Local, State or at the National level then you do more for your bottom line in the long term in providing your potential customers with work/jobs that provide them an income to buy your products that you produce here.

If you are international in scope both for your customer base as well as your suppliers then out-sourcing may make more sense.

Let’s face it... Unless your customers can afford your products you won’t make any sales.


4 posted on 07/28/2012 4:17:10 PM PDT by The Working Man
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To: SeekAndFind
Meant to put in this paragraph, that explains Hamilton’s POV:
The possession of these is necessary to the perfection of the body politic, to the safety as well as to the welfare of the society; the want of either is the want of an important organ of political life and Motion; and in the various crises which await a state, it must severely feel the effects of any such deficiency. The extreme embarrassments of the United States during the late War, from an incapacity of supplying themselves, are still matter of keen recollection: A future war might be expected again to exemplify the mischiefs and dangers of a situation to which that incapacity is still in too great a degree applicable, unless changed by timely and vigorous exertion. To effect this change as fast as shall be prudent merits all the attention and all the Zeal of our Public Councils; 'tis the next great work to be accomplished. …
I advise reading the rest of this instead of globalist ramblings on Forbes. Anyone who expects Red China or the European Union to be friendly to us in terms of supplying our defense needs is putting trust in the wrong place.
5 posted on 07/28/2012 4:17:17 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: SeekAndFind

This is the worst article I’ve seen in a long time, maybe all year.

“Man did not rise from the cave to the skyscraper by stealing his neighbor’s roots and berries.”

I guess we got it by kumbaya? He forgets about the whole history of warfare and conflict. And the USA isn’t exactly in the skyscraper building business much anymore. That’s off to the arabs and Chinese thanks to this guy’s pushed agenda.


6 posted on 07/28/2012 4:18:15 PM PDT by Monty22002
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To: The Working Man

. . . and the more people you put out of work, the fewer products they will buy at any price. It’s already happening.


7 posted on 07/28/2012 4:18:15 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: SeekAndFind
The one question corrupt, self-serving politicians in Mordor-on-the-Potomac don't want to ask about out-sourcing: why?

The "issue" of out-sourcing is more important than the solution: remove Mordor from the economy.

8 posted on 07/28/2012 4:20:16 PM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: Olog-hai

Nice post.

We gifted China with fifty years or more of technology and patent information over the last twenty years. Who in their right mind could have found that to be in our nation’s best interest, particularly in light of the fact we will be military adversaries sooner rather than later.


9 posted on 07/28/2012 4:20:42 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: SeekAndFind

“Loss of jobs? Quite the contrary. Outsourcing means better or better-paying jobs for Americans. When individuals are fired from one line of work, it’s to release capital to do other work–the law of comparative advantage again.”

I love this line too. If you get offshored and lose your job, be happy moron! It’s for your own good!


10 posted on 07/28/2012 4:25:17 PM PDT by Monty22002
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To: Olog-hai
I guess Alexander Hamilton is wrong also.

You guess right. Hamilton was wrong.

11 posted on 07/28/2012 4:31:15 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: Olog-hai

That’s correct, It’s a feedback loop if you can visualize that. Positive actions beget more positive actions, Negative actions do the same only negatively.


12 posted on 07/28/2012 4:31:51 PM PDT by The Working Man
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To: BfloGuy

Are you an American? I must ask this. Americans that go against the Founding Fathers are not of the conservative type FWICS; and non-Americans find their tenets incomprehensible due to being immersed in Marxism too deeply.


13 posted on 07/28/2012 4:34:58 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: DoughtyOne
Perhaps if he thinks about it long enough, he’ll be able to figure out which nation got the best of the Free Trade deal.

Out of all the variables in an international economy, how can you be so sure that it is free trade that caused the problem? Does monetary inflation play no part? Do high corporate tax rates have a role? Does government regulation matter? Do taxes on capital mean anything?

Free trade does not exist in a vacuum, you know.

14 posted on 07/28/2012 4:35:13 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: BfloGuy

Are you excusing free trade with unfree markets, never mind enemy countries?


15 posted on 07/28/2012 4:37:31 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: BfloGuy
Bingo. Our federal government literally drives our corporations overseas (through tax policy, mostly, but also with just general BS), and people whine about China. It's hilarious.
16 posted on 07/28/2012 4:40:18 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Monty22002
This is the worst article I’ve seen in a long time, maybe all year.

You've got that right. Perhaps Forbes should outsource this dummy's job to India. I'm sure there are writers in India who could put sentences together much cheaper than this guy can.

17 posted on 07/28/2012 4:40:41 PM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I carrying this lantern? you ask. I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: Leaning Right

Are you implying that we should place a tariff on Indian writers, so that this writer gets to keep his job? [snort]


18 posted on 07/28/2012 4:47:50 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: DoughtyOne

You overlook the primary reason for the difference....... the people, the Chicaps if you will.

In China, there is some new freedom to engage in business and the world is beating their doors down for the products produced there. China has been bound by oppressive government, their own and the colonials for at least a hundred years.

Some left and became the overseas Chinese. Where ever they were they prospered..... Taipei, Manila, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, San Francisco. They represent the repressed entrepreneurial desire present and now unleashed in China proper.

To be certain, there is still a socialist government and the economy still has very strong governmental ties but the economic and academic and other freedoms have been used by the population to bring about unprecedented growth.

To blame the prosperity solely on an imbalance in trade is to overlook the part of the ordinary Chinese people striving for a better life, the life they see in Japan and America and Europe.

When you observe people in Chinese street scenes, none wear the gray of communist rule. They wear what they consider to be colorful, modern, stylish and up to date. My favorite indicator of the tremendous change in process is a video clip of some young girls. They were wearing Daisey Mae’s..... blue jean shorts. One wonders where they got them and what provoked them to wear them...... Daisey Mae’s are quintessentially American.

I think the certainty on how the change in China will progress or if the excesses of exuberant business experiments will cause things to come crashing down is unknowable. The certainty is that he days of repression and Mao are over and change is in process.

Here in America we still have a fantastically strong manufacturing base. We still make lots and lots of highly technical products and the world comes here to buy them. Our exports support the economy. We do not make paint brushes or commodity refrigerator compressors like we once did because we have moved on. We subcontract the manufacturing to get the best price. Americans demand a good price and will not pay an excessively expensive price.

Part of the manufacturing by American companies is to gain markets in those areas. It is profitable to establish foreign plants for products sold in the foreign markets. It is not competitive to make the stuff here and ship it abroad.

But to sum it up, China is and not only that is going to become more is as the current trends continue. China is after all the most populous nation and that populations wants to improve the quality of life. It is only rational to assume that once the pent up power and desire to throw off poverty change will occur.


19 posted on 07/28/2012 4:55:48 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: SeekAndFind

This author is delusional if he thinks that putting America first is collectivist. Promoting manufacturing in America is what made this country the economic titan it eventually became. “Free Trade” is one of the things that destroyed the British Empire and is one of the things that is now destroying us. There is no such thing as “Free Trade” among nations. The Chinese, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Indians, the Germans, etc. do not practice free trade. They do everything they can to promote their industries and gain economic advantage over their trading partners. We used to understand this ourselves, but for some reason all of our Ivy-League indoctrinated, free-trade utopian leaders can’t understand this simple principle. The Chinese and others view us as suckers just as we thought the British were suckers when we supplanted them 100 years ago.


20 posted on 07/28/2012 4:56:24 PM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: Olog-hai
Are you excusing free trade with unfree markets, never mind enemy countries?

I am "excusing" free trade with unfree markets. I am concerned with American consumers looking for the best price. All economics must be looked at from the point of view of the individual consumer.

As for the enemy thing, let the government declare a country as the "enemy" with all that entails [Cuba is a good example] and I'm cool with it.

21 posted on 07/28/2012 5:01:55 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: SeekAndFind
But wealth has to be produced before it can be traded or stolen. Without production, there is nothing to steal. Production not theft is the motor of human history. Man did not rise from the cave to the skyscraper by stealing his neighbor’s roots and berries. The buildings, cars, and computers were not there to be stolen–they had to be thought of, invented, produced.

Inside the Chinese Boom in Corporate Espionage

"China did not invent intellectual property theft; it’s just doing it on an unprecedented scale."

I guess as long as Deng's version of Lenin's New Economic Policy (NEP) doesn't steal our roots and berries it okay that Red China is stealing everything else on an unprecedented scale.

(I skimmed the posted article -- I hope the author did not ignore Red China's crimes and blame it all on us.)

22 posted on 07/28/2012 5:05:50 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: BfloGuy
So you’re not concerned with the security of the country. And you are blind to the existence of enemies. The USA did not lose all its enemies in 1945, you know. Unfree markets attack free markets like ours when they trade with us; it’s an old form of warfare.

More Americans are concerned with being able to find a job than for the “best” (which doesn’t always mean lowest in terms of bottom-dollar) price. There is a reason why the consumer economy is down.
23 posted on 07/28/2012 5:13:59 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: bert

Guess again.


24 posted on 07/28/2012 5:16:25 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

the essentials

meaning the basics, the really vital stuff, not everything


25 posted on 07/28/2012 5:27:28 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: 1rudeboy
No, it’s not hilarious. Nobody’s denying the overregulation and overtaxation; the awareness that the USA has the highest corporate tax rate on the planet is quite high on FR. Pile on top of that trading with an enemy who is classified as a “non-market economy” by the WTO and there is more than merely cause to “whine” as you dismissively describe it. Imagine if we were trading with the USSR all the way through the Cold War?
27 posted on 07/28/2012 5:30:30 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: DoughtyOne

international trade is essentials.

would make no sense to build worthless widgets in this country

the problem is that this government has the highest corporate tax rates on Earth and is hostile to investment... what did they think would happen?


28 posted on 07/28/2012 5:31:25 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: 3Fingas

Exactly. Putting America first is individualist; the globalist outlook promulgated by the author is what is collectivist.


29 posted on 07/28/2012 5:31:57 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Did our tax policy drive our own corporations to open in the Soviet Union?


30 posted on 07/28/2012 5:32:36 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: GeronL

Read it again. It says “all the essentials of national supply”, to include “the means of subsistence, habitation, clothing, and defense—to be possessed within ourselves. “All the essentials” does not mean the mere basics; it does indeed mean everything. And we don’t even have “the really vital stuff” anymore.


31 posted on 07/28/2012 5:35:54 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
Nobody’s denying the overregulation and overtaxation; the awareness that the USA has the highest corporate tax rate on the planet is quite high on FR.

Sorry, I could not let this comment pass. Could you speak to some of the protectionists? LOL

32 posted on 07/28/2012 5:35:54 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Olog-hai; TigerLikesRooster

If you want national self-reliance, North Korea has been doing that for a while called “Juche”.

I think its a bad idea.


33 posted on 07/28/2012 5:39:59 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Olog-hai
And we don’t even have “the really vital stuff” anymore.

I did read a comment somewhere, about how people were bitching about "how the U.S. Olympic uniforms were made in China." The response was, whose jet did the Chinese team fly to get to London?

34 posted on 07/28/2012 5:40:12 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Are you trying to say something?

The Muslims are not the only ones that know how to practice “taqiyyah”, you know. Mao really put one over on Nixon by making it look like there was a rift between Red China and the USSR. Teng Hsiao-p’ing made the bait juicier with his alleged economic “liberalization” programs. Asymmetrical warfare that totally fooled the naïve libs in DC.
35 posted on 07/28/2012 5:40:35 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: GeronL
You fell for that one too, eh? No, North Korea is propped up by Beijing.

Putting America first is not autarky, which has not been totally achievable by any single nation anyhow.
36 posted on 07/28/2012 5:42:11 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
Are you trying to say something?

Not any more, since you started talking nonsense.

37 posted on 07/28/2012 5:43:16 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

If the answer was “Airbus”, then what?


38 posted on 07/28/2012 5:45:28 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: 1rudeboy

You’re talking like a liberal. You aren’t one to accuse others of talking nonsense.


39 posted on 07/28/2012 5:46:03 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: BfloGuy
Free trade does not exist in a vacuum, you know.

Free trade has never existed. Ever. It does not know nor has it ever since the first government/king/lord etc came to power.

40 posted on 07/28/2012 5:46:19 PM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: Olog-hai

Then I would point you to Boeing’s market share, that you pretend does not exist. And I’m sorry you think I’m a lib . . . the question follows: why are you having such a tough time with the argument I’m making? Surely a True Conservative(tm) such as yourself should be able to dispatch me no problem.


41 posted on 07/28/2012 5:50:14 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: raybbr
Free trade exists. And it existed the last time I paid somebody $40 to remove an old doghouse from my property.

I understand your point that "free" trade does not exist between countries. But "never" is a strong word.

42 posted on 07/28/2012 5:53:50 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Not relevant to Alexander Hamilton’s point. A single aircraft builder (with no domestic competition; McDonnell-Douglas, Lockheed, Convair all gone) does not all of the industry a country needs make. Otherwise we’d all be working for Boeing.


43 posted on 07/28/2012 5:54:01 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Good Lord. You’ve gone from nonsense to absurdity.


44 posted on 07/28/2012 5:55:57 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Olog-hai

Just for the record, how many letters of credit have you negotiated?


45 posted on 07/28/2012 6:02:26 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: SeekAndFind

What allegiance should businesses hold to the the United States? What is the United states any more? The government loads down businesses with so many taxes and regulations that it becomes impossible for them to DO business here. Our founding fathers fought a war over alot less tyranny than we’re under now. I have no problem with Americans seeking freedom, and freedom has left our shores unfortunately.


46 posted on 07/28/2012 6:04:35 PM PDT by wolfman
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To: bert
No, I didn't overlook the difference.  You merely assumed I had.

But lets be clear here, NO CHANGE was coming unless we sold out American citizens to move their jobs off-shore.  When we sold those U. S. citizens out, we sold ourselves out.

People making $15.00 an hour spend money, and they spend most of it around home employing other citizens.  We're now enmeshed in the Great Recession praying it won't get worse, and our citizens are now spending the spoils of $8 to $10 dollars per hour, if they're lucky enough to even have a job.  And while this may sound like we're just addressing this wage sector, it's not truly that easy.  We're also addressing the investment industry, because a whole sector of our economy that used to have enough expendable income to invest, now doesn't.  We have massive amounts of unemployed and under employed.  Make no mistake about it, the selling out of our fellow citizens, affected us all.  And even though we do still have manufacturing here, we have sent trillions of dollars worth of it overseas.  Our trade deficit with China was approaching the major portion of $1 trillion dollars per year prior to the down-turn.  Please don't try to tell me we have a robust manufacturing base here, when you yourself know that having $500 dollars in your pocket is not the same as having $1000 dollars there.

Okay great, we have $500 dollars still in our pocket.  Is the multiplier effect as effective as it would be if we were spending $1000 dollars here?  No.  So lets at least be honest with ourselves.

I have no quarrel with the Chinese people.  It saddens me to know that's what you think this all boils down to.  Good grief.  No, it's about a pariah government that is skimming off money to create unrest around the world, and build up it's military so it can hopefully (on their government's part) become as proficient as ours is.  Swell!  It's also about bankrupting our fellow citizens.

Frankly there's an aspect of this that angers me too.  It's the Chinese people and their hopes for a bright future...  Where's the hopes of our own citizens mentioned in your comments?  Oh that's right, they were missing.

At a time when no other nation on the planet was building up trade deficits with China, the United States was already in for $0.5 trillion of it per year.  That bastard piehole Senator Orin Hatch went so far as to offer to gift our entire patent database to China.  Imagine us gifting Nazi Germany our entire patent database in 1934.  That's the level of treachery we're addressing here.

As you have so eloquently stated, China will continue to grow.  I agree, and this time it was us who awoke a sleeping giant.

As for the Chinese government, and whether it changes or not, the Chinese people see things differently than we do.  They see the region as their own.  They want to claim every blade of grass that pops up out of the South Western portion of the Pacific, and that includes the areas rightfully claimed by other nations.  They also want to capture the island of Taiwan.  And lest you tell me how reasoned that is, you really need to do some study about the history of Taiwan.  China's claim to it is a relatively recent development in the overall scheme of things.

We are going to be confronted on the high seas by a belligerent China, and we will have financed every bit of it.  Many of our young men and women will die.  Our very homeland will be threatened by this.  And ultimately all this will take place, because some idiot thought it was a great idea to make it so we could buy a VCR at half the cost, and all it would cost us is selling out our neighbor's lively-hood.  Never-mind you have to replace the VCRs every two years when they quit working.

Our policy with China turned down-right suicidal and as China builds up, it's becoming more evident by the day.

It used to be the United States who was trying to sound the voice of reason around the planet, sending our military and citizens there.  Now China is taking on that roll.  Good luck with that.  Good luck with the clapping for China now that it's becoming a policing force on the high seas as far away as Somalia and the Western end of the Indian Ocean.  This is only the start of where we are headed.

We need a Winston Churchill today, not an Orin Hatch.
47 posted on 07/28/2012 6:06:59 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: 1rudeboy

Right; Alexander Hamilton spoke of nonsense and absurdity. The realities on the world stage are nonsense and absurdity. Are you trying to make a point?


48 posted on 07/28/2012 6:08:56 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: bert

Why are you trying to change the subject? Does the mere act of negotiating letters of credit make one an expert on fanatical communists?


49 posted on 07/28/2012 6:10:50 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: DoughtyOne

All of that is correct. None of them have a lick of sense of national security, and don’t see China’s government for the fanatics they are. Their foreign policy has been unchanging in regarding the USA as their number-one enemy, and their goal of bringing worldwide communism still stands; it’s been quite active in Africa and South America (the latter a clear violation of the Monroe Doctrine), and the only entity that has been a serious rival in those continents (ironically, and especially for those continents’ natural resources) has been the European Union.


50 posted on 07/28/2012 6:14:55 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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