Skip to comments.F-22 Fighter Loses $79 Billion Advantage in Dogfights: Report
Posted on 07/31/2012 9:26:07 AM PDT by moonshot925
The United States has spent nearly $80 billion to develop the most advanced stealth fighter jet in history, the F-22 Raptor, but the Air Force recently found out firsthand that while the planes own the skies at modern long-range air combat, it is "evenly matched" with cheaper, foreign jets when it comes to old-school dogfighting.
The F-22 made its debut at the international Red Flag Alaska training exercise this June where the planes "cleared the skies of simulated enemy forces and provided security for Australian, German, Japanese, Polish and [NATO] aircraft," according to an after-action public report by the Air Force. The F-22 took part in the exercise while under strict flying restrictions imposed by Defense Secretary Leon Panetta in light of mysterious, potentially deadly oxygen problems with the planes - problems that the Pentagon believes it has since solved.
The Air Force said the planes flew 80 missions during the event "with a very high mission success rate." However, a new report from Combat Aircraft Monthly revealed that in a handful of missions designed to test the F-22 in a very specific situation - close-range, one-on-one combat - the jet appeared to lose its pricey advantages over a friendly rival, the Eurofighter Typhoon, flown in this case by German airmen.
"We expected to perform less with the Eurofighter but we didn't," German air officer Marc Grune said, according to Combat Aircraft Monthly. "We were evenly matched. They didn't expect us to turn so aggressively."
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
My favorite is Oberst Hans-Ulrich Rudel. The most decorated German pilot of WWII (Panzerjäger, Panzerchlachtflieger, Schlachtflieger, Schnellkampflieger, Zerstörerflieger, Jagdflieger ). He was consulted when the A10 warthog was being designed due to his 500 Ruski tank victories in WWII.
My Father had several pictures of the first Russian tank to enter Berlin. He took pictures in 1945 of the monument being constructed and a few after it was completed.
Daddy simply described it as a “Stalin tank”. When he was in a nursing home not too long before he died, I took a bunch of his WWII pics to let him look at. Daddy smiled at the Stalin tank and said it was blown up during the night. Daddy had Alzheimers so I wasn’t sure if his memory was right.
Anyway I looked up on the internet, the first Russian tank in Berlin and sure enough, there are now two T-34s. They are in the same place (Tiergarten Square) so apparently after the first one was blown up they simply found two other “first” tanks into Berlin.
Yes, the AESA is a huge advantage, until jamming tech improves and takes that away, they your BVR advantage vanishes. What the Russkies practiced all day long.
I might be confusing the two. Its been a while since I was reading up on either.
Sounds like the F22 pilots just need to continue to have dog fighting tactics pounded into them. You dominate the stand off fights but you need to know how to win in a turning knife fight as well.
The JS series were darn good tanks, too.
I’m sure your father had nothing to do with that “unfortunate” incident...
I've seen it happen time and time again in business the same as in government: Managers just continue to look for the "one size fits all" solution, when what is needed is a balanced approach.
Life and conflict are very rarely "either/or" situations; rather, success comes from having combinations of both.
The pilot ain't sayin'. Read what little there is to read at The DEW Line blog.
More than you would think. What concerns me is in a REAL war our city’s and manufacturing base will be crippled, or at the very least our supply lines will be strenuous at best.
Its going to be a lot harder to produce & distribute theses very complex missile systems, assuming we could ever build enough of them to take down an air-force more than 5 times more numerous than our own.
An Iraqi Mig-25 did take an F-18 out with a BVR shot.
There aren't many examples out there. The ROE don't generally allow it.
Are you a zoomie?
Once upon a time there were some old crows.....
It is ridiculous to discuss “old school dogfighting” when the Raptor has already shot down all opponents beyond the horizon, long before they can close.
Thanks for the ping.
I am told the 22 pilots were severly restricted in the tactics they were able to use.
Or maybe you don’t show off your best capabilities in public.
Interesting. I guess I can understand him being close-mouthed. Love to hear about that “well timed” shot...:)
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