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Exclusive: Brigham Young’s Great-Great-Granddaughter on Mormonism and Mitt Romney
Daily Beast ^ | August 7, 2012 | Jamie Reno

Posted on 08/07/2012 3:45:40 PM PDT by greyfoxx39

A direct descendant of Brigham Young, Sue Emmett left the church because of the very values she says would make Romney a frightening president. She speaks exclusively with Jamie Reno.

A direct descendant of Brigham Young, Sue Emmett left the church because of the very values she says would make Romney a frightening president. She speaks exclusively with Jamie Reno.

“Walking by that statue every day, I was reminded of my heritage, my lineage,” says Emmett. “That, plus going up to Salt Lake and walking through the Beehive House a couple of times and thinking of my grandmother, who I knew very well, all that pretty much sealed the deal for me being a very devout, obedient Mormon girl.”

But by the time she reached her mid-30s, she began to have doubts. Emmett started questioning the ethics and veracity of the church’s doctrine and its founders, including Young himself, and she grew increasingly concerned with the way, she says, the church treats women. She held these questions close to the vest for many years until, in 1999, at the age of 55, she finally made the hard decision to leave the church.

"There was a powerful mystique around me that I was special because of my heritage, so it was really difficult for me to leave,” says Emmett, now 71. “It was the only life, the only home I ever knew. But I just couldn’t stay any longer.”

Emmett, who still has dear friends and family members in the church—“You can be critical of the church and still be compassionate toward the people in it,” she says—is now president of the Exmormon Foundation, which was organized to give support and understanding to those who leave Mormonism. In an exclusive interview with The Daily Beast, Emmett, who rarely speaks to the media, talks about what life is like in the church, why she left, and what she thinks motivates Mitt Romney to want to be president.

Sue Emmett discusses her experience as a woman in the Mormon church.

"The church has astutely created a very benign image to the world. They spend millions of dollars a year doing this," says Emmett, who was born and raised in Portland, Ore., and still lives there. "But there are things that go on inside the church that are hurtful to women. There are many women still in the church who have complaints about not having any real say in what goes on, but they have nowhere to go with these complaints.”

Emmett says there is a lot of silent suffering among Mormon women, but she just reached a point where she couldn’t stay silent anymore.

“The church has astutely created a very benign image to the world. They spend millions of dollars a year doing this,” says Emmett.

Divorced from her husband of 34 years, who is still a Mormon, Emmett—the mother of seven grown children, five of whom are still in the church while two have left—says that “the one thing that finally put the arrow in me" was when she and her sister-in-law decided to start a retreat for Mormon women. Church leaders were not amused, she says.

“It was just a social and cultural thing," Emmett explains. "We made a vow that we would never have anything at the retreat that was anti-church, it would just be a place for cultural events and sharing ideas. We had artists and guest speakers, including one woman who spent her life traveling around the world taking pictures of women and their cultures.”

Emmett says the retreat, which was held in an Oregon mountain lodge and typically attracted between 60 and 70 Mormon women, had feminist overtones, “but we never talked about problems at church. We did nothing wrong.”

Still, the negative reaction among her church’s leadership was the last straw.

"We knew we'd get in trouble for doing it, but we did it anyway," she says. "From that point on, I was marginalized. I’d done everything a good Mormon woman could do in the church, including teaching children in Sunday school, but after we did the retreat I was treated differently.”

Responding to Emmett’s comments about the church’s treatment of women, Ruth Todd, a spokeswoman for the church, tells The Daily Beast: “Nearly half of the 14 million members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are women. To assert that my membership or participation in the church is based on compulsion or deception is both offensive and disparaging to me as a woman, and is patently false.”

Says Todd: “The right of every individual [Mormon] to make choices for themselves that determine their path in life and in the eternities is a fundamental doctrine of our faith. As a woman, I view my role in the church and in God’s plan as distinct and complementary to the efforts of men. Trying to characterize the role of women in the church in a purely hierarchical way misses the mark and is a flawed premise that demeans the role and value of women.”

Since she left 13 years ago, Emmett has become a leader of the ex-Mormon movement, which she says is not about bashing her former church but about helping former members make the difficult adjustment. “It’s such an insular world, and for some people it is really hard to make it on the ‘outside,’ so to speak,” she says.

Emmett has watched Mitt Romney very closely throughout his public life and has strong opinions about what shaped his personality and his character. “Mitt is a product not only of his wealth, but of an organization that gives men power when they are 12 years old,” she says. “That is when boys are ordained with the priesthood. It is a big moment in a Mormon male’s childhood.”

As for what pundits say is Romney's difficulty connecting with people, Emmett blames it largely on what she calls “the entitled Mormon male syndrome, where the leadership professes compassion and concern but leaves the manifestations of that to the drones. All male leadership is not this way; there are some wonderful men who do their best to exercise their power compassionately, but many do not.”

Emmett says Romney was a bishop, “a position where everyone defers to you. What a bishop says goes. People come to them to receive blessings.” He then became a stake president, she says, which means he presided over several congregations, and at that point bishops deferred to him.

“Mitt has had people defer to him and not challenge him his entire life,” says Emmett. “In the Mormon church if you challenge your priesthood leaders it’s a very bad thing to do, especially for women. As the world can now see, Mitt has a very hard time with being questioned and criticized; he’s had so little of this in his life."

Will he be more beholden to his church than to the American people? Emmett recalls that when Romney was stake president in the church, he was pro-life. But when he was running for governor he changed his position to pro-choice. A woman in the church who was a good friend of Emmett’s went to see Romney and thanked him for changing his position. “He told her that he had talked to church leaders in Salt Lake,” Emmett says, “and that they gave him permission to change his position.”

The Romney campaign did not respond to numerous requests for comment.

Emmett says she doesn’t think Romney has the ability to separate what leaders of the church want from what the country needs.

“Mitt has been groomed to become president from a very young age,” says Emmett. “The thing is, I think his father [George Romney, who ran for president in 1968] would have made a much better president. In many ways the church was more benign then than it is now.”

But Emmett begs to differ. “I can guarantee you that there are millions of Mormons who believe this prophecy and see Romney as potential fulfillment of it,” she says. “As a Mormon, you grow up hearing about this prophecy. I think Mitt believes he has a mandate from God to become president so he can help move this along. I don’t know if it’s a conscious thought, but it's in his subconscious.”

Emmett says she thinks Romney’s biggest fault is that he has a “serious problem telling the truth. There is flip-flopping, which he has done more than any politician in modern history, and then there is out and out lying,” she says. “This kind of thing has sadly been a part of the church from the very beginning. Some modern apostles actually taught that it is not always the best thing to tell the truth if it interferes with preaching gospel.”

Emmett says the notion of “Lying for the Lord,” as it has been called, implies that teaching the whole truth about the church should be avoided. At a presentation on Lying for the Lord at the 2008 Exmormon Foundation conference, Ken Clark addressed the issue. Clark, who worked as a teacher for the LDS Church Education System (CES) for 27 years and also served as a bishop before leaving the church in 2003, tells The Daily Beast, “Lying has become an institutionalized method of administrative control with the church.”

“Every Mormon grows up with the idea that it’s OK to lie if it’s for a higher cause,” says Clark, who now works for a company that markets employment and labor market data. “But what happens is when this becomes a part of your ethical tool kit, you develop a condescending attitude toward people. Like Ann Romney saying 'you people.’ This idea of lying for the Lord gives you license to place people on an inferior level. It’s OK for Mitt Romney to ignore the principle of full disclosure because it’s in his DNA. Look what he’s doing with his taxes, and how he talks only in generic and sanitized terms about his religion.”

But church spokeswoman Ruth Todd says there is no merit to Clark's accusations.

“To assert that there is a culture of dishonesty or deception in the church is both woefully uninformed and ridiculous," Todd says. "The pursuit of truth is at the heart of who we are. Mormon women around the world participate actively in our church because we find value and truth in the doctrines, structure and deep meaning provided by the gospel of Jesus Christ that is at the core of our faith. All church members are encouraged to study for themselves and develop their own convictions about the church and its teachings.”

When Clark left the church, he says, Emmett was of "great help to me. She is one of best people I know. She is very courageous and compassionate."

And Emmett, despite her issues with Romney and the church, does not want to be cast as a Mormon hater. She says that while she strongly disagrees with many of the tenets and practices of Mormonism, most Mormons are kind, honest people.

“Many of my children and other family members are still devout Mormons, and I want to be sensitive to their beliefs and I have no desire to hurt them,” says Emmett. “It’s been hard for me. It was my entire life for 50 years. I was very sincere and devout for a very long time. But as a feminist and someone who believes that you should be allowed to say what you really feel, I had to leave.”



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To: clee1
The Mormon theology is kooky to me, but you can’t argue that it’s adherents aren’t honest, upright, and patriotic.

Harry Reid is a Temple® Worthy MORMON.

Wanna re-think your statement?

51 posted on 08/07/2012 5:04:56 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: NoGrayZone
"Screw the country....as long as we don't have a Mormon President".

While spiritually blinded folks say...

"Screw what the BIBLE says....as long as we don't have an assumed MUSLIM President".

52 posted on 08/07/2012 5:06:32 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: NoGrayZone

And there are a small number of rabid Romney supporters who are living in fear and hysteria that they refuse to see who Romney is and that his “faith” makes him the liberal he is.


53 posted on 08/07/2012 5:07:18 PM PDT by roylene (Salvation the great Gift of Grace.)
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To: TrueFact
Let’s keep religion out of this.

WHAT???


TITLE: ...Brigham Young’s Great-Great-Granddaughter on Mormonism ...

54 posted on 08/07/2012 5:08:59 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Las Vegas Ron; NoGrayZone; Elsie
Who do you prefer in the White House, a muzzie or a Mormon? You have a choice, pick one.

You call your so-called "options" a "choice"???

(If Obama loses in '12; re-runs as an (R) in 2020 vs. a more liberal Dem...no, I don't buy your argument that I am FORCED to vote for Obama come 2020...)

You, see...we have more "choices" than what your utilitarian pragmatic political relativistic ethics dictate to you...

You are told, automaton-like, "YOU HAVE TO VOTE for evil."

And we are telling this -- and future generations -- "No. You are not in bondage and locked in as lackeys to having counterfeit conservatives -- RINOs -- dictate you to you how you will vote."

Lurkers: The above is what relativism delivers. The above is what utilitarianism delivers. The above is what pragmatism delivers.

Think Neville Chamberlain...and you know who the "hero" is of these compromising philosophies...

55 posted on 08/07/2012 5:09:43 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Elsie; Jean S

Looks like you received the usual paste and post. Expect a hundred more!


56 posted on 08/07/2012 5:09:55 PM PDT by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Too bad you don't share your hatred of muzzies like you do with Mormons.

We'll leave that to lovable peolple like yourself.

Better scoot over to the VANITY area and post an ANTI-Islam thread.

(It'll improve your street cred...)

57 posted on 08/07/2012 5:10:32 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian; Jim Robinson; Jean S
is all you see thru your pro-Romney lens

You're a freakin idiot, no one here that I've seen is pro Romney.

What I see here are people that are forced to make a decision that goes against many of the things they stand for just to get this evil bastard obama out of office.

You little juvenile mentally challenged twerps like to use the Alinsky tactics of calling anyone who is against obama "Romney bots"

Why don't you grow the f**k up? Oh, and before you go running to hide behind the owner of this site, I'll ping him myself in this post.

Jim's opinion is stated here, he is not obsessed like the like s of you withe their incessant, psychotic posts.

58 posted on 08/07/2012 5:10:42 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Some of these people are obsessed, bordering on psychosis.

OOOooooh!

Which ones???


 

Polygamy: How it all got Started


 
 
 
Joe: Hey Emma!   Guess what!?
 
Emma: You KNOW I hate these guessing games! What is it, Dear?
 
Joe: I heard a voice, probably the Lord, tell me I must take other wives.
 
Emma: WHAT!?   You ding bat!  Don't you KNOW what our precious BOOK says?   After all; YOU are the one that translated it!
 
Joe: Books; schmooks.   All I know is I've been COMMANDED to take other wives and you are to OBEY ME!!!
 
 
Emma:      "Though shalt NOT commit ADULTERY!!!"
 
 
Joe: Silly Woman!  You KNOW better than to take things out of CONTEXT!!!
 
 
 
 
 

 
...and the rest is HISTORY...
 

 
 
 
 
 
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
 
  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
 

Or even HERE:
 

 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
 
 
1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
 
 
 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.



 
 
Emma: That's IT!   I'm LEAVING your sorry *!!!
 
Joe:  DARN you Emma; you were TOLD to accept this!!   Wait!!!   I hear a voice again!!!
 
 


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
 
  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 
 
  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice.


59 posted on 08/07/2012 5:11:56 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39

Red font at night sailors delight, red font in morning, sailors take warning. I think that’s how it goes.


60 posted on 08/07/2012 5:12:01 PM PDT by fhayek
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Some of these people are obsessed, bordering on psychosis.

WE are NOT!!


61 posted on 08/07/2012 5:12:30 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Some of these people are obsessed, bordering on psychosis.

We DO follow these rules to the LETTER though!!


The Rules

  1. Learn and obey all missionary rules.
  2. Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
  3. Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
  4. Don't debate or argue.
  5. Center your mind on your mission.
  6. Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
  7. Cut your hair regularly.
  8. Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
  9. Be neat and clean.
  10. Bathe frequently.
  11. Use deodorant.
  12. Polish your shoes.
  13. Iron your shirt and business suit.
  14. Arise at 6:30 A.M.
  15. Study for 2 hours every morning.
  16. Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
  17. Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
  18. Exercise regularly.
  19. Write in your journal regularly.
  20. Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
  21. Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
  22. Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
  23. Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
  24. Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
  25. Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
  26. Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
  27. End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
  28. Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
  29. Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
  30. Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
  31. Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
  32. Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
  33. Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
  34. Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
  35. Stay with your companion during all activities.
  36. Do not go on road trips.
  37. Do not leave your assigned area without permission
  38. Do not watch television.
  39. Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
  40. Do not listen to the radio.
  41. Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
  42. Do not participate in musical groups.
  43. Do not participate in athletic teams.
  44. Do not sponsor athletic teams.
  45. Do not engage in contact sports.
  46. Do not engage in water sports.
  47. Do not engage in winter sports.
  48. Do not engage in motorcycling.
  49. Do not engage in horseback riding.
  50. Do not engage in mountain climbing.
  51. Do not embark on a private boat.
  52. Do not embark in a private airplane.
  53. Do not handle firearms.
  54. Do not handle explosives.
  55. Do not swim.
  56. Do not play full court basketball.
  57. Do not play basketball in leagues.
  58. Do not play basketball in tournaments.
  59. You may play half-court basketball.
  60. Never be alone.
  61. Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
  62. Be loyal to your companion.
  63. Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
  64. Pray with your companion every day.
  65. Study with your companion every day.
  66. Plan your work with your companion every day.
  67. Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
  68. Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
  69. Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
  70. Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
  71. Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
  72. Do not arise before your companion.
  73. Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
  74. Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
  75. Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
  76. Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
  77. Do not flirt.
  78. Do not date.
  79. Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
  80. Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
  81. Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
  82. Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
  83. Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
  84. Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
  85. Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
  86. Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
  87. Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
  88. Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
  89. Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
  90. Do not telephone parents
  91. Do not telephone relatives.
  92. Do not telephone friends.
  93. Do not telephone girlfriends.
  94. Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
  95. Take problems and questions to your mission president.
  96. Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president
  97. Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert.
  98. Obey all mission rules.
  99. Obey the laws of the land.
  100. Do not get involved in politics.
  101. Do not get involved in commercial activities.
  102. Do not give any information about the area.
  103. Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
  104. Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
  105. Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
  106. Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
  107. Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
  108. Be courteous.
  109. Provide community service.
  110. Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
  111. Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
  112. Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
  113. Your mission president must approve your housing.
  114. Keep your housing unit clean.
  115. Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
  116. Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
  117. Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
  118. You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
  119. Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
  120. Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators.
  121. Maintain your health.
  122. Eat a healthy diet.
  123. Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
  124. Follow the approved exercise program.
  125. Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
  126. Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
  127. Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
  128. Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
  129. Be immunized.
  130. Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
  131. Budget your money carefully.
  132. Keep a record of what you spend.
  133. Do not spend more than your companion.
  134. Do not loan money.
  135. Do not borrow money.
  136. Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
  137. Pay your bills before leaving an area.
  138. Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
  139. Do not waste money on souvenirs.
  140. Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
  141. Be a frugal photographer.
  142. Do not accumulate excess baggage.
  143. Obey custom laws and regulations.
  144. Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
  145. Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
  146. Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
  147. Do not drive without a license.
  148. Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
  149. Do not drive members’ cars.
  150. Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
  151. Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars.
  152. Use cars only on approved mission business.
  153. Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
  154. Be conscious of safety at all times.
  155. Drive defensively.
  156. Wear your seat belt.
  157. Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
  158. If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
  159. Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.
  160. Know bicycle safety rules.
  161. Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
  162. Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
  163. Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
  164. Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
  165. Go directly to your new area when transferred.
  166. Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
  167. Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.

62 posted on 08/07/2012 5:14:08 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: NoGrayZone
YOU can have your “non-Mormon” Pres_ent and we’ll take the Mormon.

MORMONs have already thrown their god under the bus anyway...


Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President


63 posted on 08/07/2012 5:15:44 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: NoGrayZone
MORMONs have already thrown their god under the bus anyway...


Well... ONE of them...

64 posted on 08/07/2012 5:16:02 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Funny, are people who Witness the Gospel of Christ obsessed?
65 posted on 08/07/2012 5:16:29 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: NoGrayZone
Well... ONE of them...


 
 
If You Could Hie to Kolob
 #284 – William W. Phelps

1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye,
    And then continue onward With that same speed to fly,
    Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
    Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?

2. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?
    Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?
    Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’
    Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.”

3. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound;
    Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
    There is no end to matter; There is no end to space;
    There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race.

4. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might;
    There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light.
    There is no end to union; There is no end to youth;
    There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth.

5. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
    There is no end to being; There is no death above.
    There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
    There is no end to being; There is no death above.

 
 
 
 
 

66 posted on 08/07/2012 5:16:50 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Jean S
I am serious, it’s the only explanation for your obsession and hatred.

ONLY?

You SURE?

67 posted on 08/07/2012 5:17:50 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Jean S
Were you sexually abused by a Mormon?

HHMMmmm...


 
 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
 
  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 
 
  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice
 
 
 
 

Whatever HAPPENED to Emma???
 
Eliza was a devout Mormon. At age 38, she became Joseph Smith's 14th plural wife (in addition to Smith's lawful wife, Emma). In 1842, after learning Eliza was pregnant, Emma Smith beat Eliza with a broomstick and knocked her down a flight of stairs, causing Eliza to miscarry Smith's baby.
 
 
Wow!!
 
 
I guess ol' Emma got VAPORIZED by GOD!!!
 
 
We know that multiply him thing sure didn't work out!



68 posted on 08/07/2012 5:18:56 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: clee1

That sums it up for my experiences.


69 posted on 08/07/2012 5:21:22 PM PDT by pingman ("Human history seems logical in afterthought, but a mystery in forethought." (Strauss & Howe))
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To: Colofornian
Last time I did 3rd party was Perot. Like I have stated before, still praying for a miracle. Won't know what I will do until election day. What I WON'T do is write in or vote for 3rd party.....unless it's Sarah. As of this moment, it's Sarah or Mitt.

"(If Obama loses in '12; re-runs as an (R) in 2020 vs. a more liberal Dem"

Oh please....now you are bordering on hysterics. I usually don't push meds....but in your case PUSH.

70 posted on 08/07/2012 5:22:06 PM PDT by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: TrueFact
If you folks continue to rail about Romney being Mormon, you’re going to end up having 0bama for 4 more years.

If you folks continue to ignore Romney being either a DECEIVED Mormon or else a DECEIVING one, then you’re going to end up having to account for the deception of others that a MORMON president would achieve.


What's THAT; St. Pete?

No; I DIDN'T think religion was that important.

71 posted on 08/07/2012 5:22:18 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JSDude1; Colofornian; fishtank; RaceBannon; Elsie; aMorePerfectUnion
I know a lot of people will burn me for this- but I know what Jesus did for me (Eph 2:8-9) and that the Mormon religion is based on lies and Satanic beliefs, not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Romney ~may~ end up the tyrant that we all hope doesn’t come to pass in our lifetimes. Not saying he will, but he may.

Better to be burned by pretend entities on an internet forum by those who are ignorant to the danger than to answer to God for following a false prophet. Good for you.

72 posted on 08/07/2012 5:23:29 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: Elsie
MORMONs have already thrown their god under the bus anyway... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well... ONE of them...

LOL...you're hypocrite in the highest order.

Please explain how you are serving The Good Lord Jesus by denigrating another faith, rather han Witnessing to them to show them the way?

Nah, never mind, you're waste of time.

73 posted on 08/07/2012 5:23:58 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

LVR dislays the false excluded middle again...


74 posted on 08/07/2012 5:24:47 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: tweakDU
Mormons comprised most of the personnel that investigate and grant security clearances for just about everybody as I found out during my service with the Army. When I asked why, I was told that they are “clean” meaning there’s nothing in the investigators’ background that could be used for blackmail

You were misinformed. Take it from an ex-mormon who has lived in mormon-controlled communities.

OR...are you saying that if Mitt wins the presidency he has a ready made "investigatory" army in place? Sounds an awful lot like Obama.

75 posted on 08/07/2012 5:28:11 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: Elsie

Why, by pointing that you’re so weak in your own convictions you have to belittle others to try and show your own faith?

NOtice you didn’t adress the Witnessing part....


76 posted on 08/07/2012 5:31:39 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Please explain how you are serving The Good Lord Jesus by denigrating another faith, rather han Witnessing to them to show them the way?

Read my tagline. The claims made daily by 52,000 missionaries are not "witnessing" the glory of God and His Son, but putting forth a false prophet and a phony "restoration" of the Gospel of Christ.

But, I guess that hasn't occurred to you, huh?

77 posted on 08/07/2012 5:34:09 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

Both are a problem, but Obama is a much bigger problem, and he will do much more lasting damage, much sooner. They aren’t two equal evils.


78 posted on 08/07/2012 5:35:15 PM PDT by pallis
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To: Elsie

Muzzie or Mormon, your choice, obot.


79 posted on 08/07/2012 5:35:36 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: greyfoxx39
You do have a reading comprehension problem...yes?
80 posted on 08/07/2012 5:37:36 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

You DO have a discernment problem...yes??


81 posted on 08/07/2012 5:39:40 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: Big_Harry

“Got a good write in?”

Any write-in is a guaranteed win for 0!


82 posted on 08/07/2012 5:39:50 PM PDT by chooseascreennamepat (You can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: greyfoxx39
That is the singular most Freetarded hack job of a layout ever. Did you just guess the html?
83 posted on 08/07/2012 5:44:41 PM PDT by StAnDeliver (=)
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What would you do without Free Republic?

Help End FReepathons by Donating Monthly!
Generous FReeper Sponsors are donating $10 for every New Monthly Donor!
Please Sign Up to Donate Monthly!

84 posted on 08/07/2012 5:45:42 PM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93destr)
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To: StAnDeliver
That is the singular most Freetarded hack job of a layout ever. Did you just guess the html?

I don't know where the red font came from...the preview before posting was fine. Must have been a goblin there somewhere.

85 posted on 08/07/2012 5:50:00 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: roylene; All

I really don’t care... We are electing a Commander in Chief. Not a Pastor in Chief.. Mitt can be a member of the Church of Scientology and I will vote for him...


86 posted on 08/07/2012 6:00:27 PM PDT by KevinDavis (Virgil Goode and other 3rd party candidates are losers!!!!)
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To: Jean S; greyfoxx39; Colofornian; parisa
There is a small grout of Freepers who will post from any kind of site as long as it attacks Mormons. Very sad and rather pitiful.

Actually, there are a group of dedicated, sincere, informed, many ex-mormon, whose mission is to tell the truth about Mormonism to hopefully "pull the brands from the fire" as the Bible says from a faux religion that if followed leads to Hell, not Heaven.

And like anyone daring to tell the truth, they get attacked by people for a variety of reasons, some because they feel threatened that their candidate maybe harmed, others, because they are Mormon and predictably, this hurts.


87 posted on 08/07/2012 6:10:45 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: KevinDavis

I get that you don’t care if you are supporting apparently a liberal because you appear to be terrified of a liberal.
I said Romney is who he is because he is a Mormon.
If you don’t care about liberalism that’s on you.


88 posted on 08/07/2012 6:11:00 PM PDT by roylene (Salvation the great Gift of Grace.)
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To: clee1

“As the stepson of a Mormon with many Mormon family members, I say “Bullsqueeze” to this entire article.

The Mormon theology is kooky to me, but you can’t argue that it’s adherents aren’t honest, upright, and patriotic.”


Mitt Romney represents his church extremely well. Most Mormons I have encountered lie outright about what their church teaches. I had one start off that way, and then later in the conversation he confessed their doctrines but argued that the Trinity was paganism anyway and that it was an invention of the Catholics. The LDS fosters a system of deception. Hell, they’ve even rewritten their own holy books thousands upon thousands of times and lie about it. Just like Mitt Romney. When Mittens talks, he is Lying. When Mittens isn’t talking, he is thinking about lying.


89 posted on 08/07/2012 6:11:51 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: greyfoxx39

And so it begins, as we all knew or should have known it would. Drip, drip, drip.


90 posted on 08/07/2012 6:12:01 PM PDT by itsahoot (Old people cost too much money. They make lots of typos too.)
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To: NoGrayZone; All
Me: "(If Obama loses in '12; re-runs as an (R) in 2020 vs. a more liberal Dem"

You: Oh please....now you are bordering on hysterics.

Hey, it doesn't matter if I carry the principle underneath what's being advocated to its extreme conclusion: The relativistic formula upon which many FREEPERs are basing their ethics is quite simple:

A. The Democratic party is my antithesis. The worst vote you could make is Obama.

B. I (once upon a time) thought that The RINOized GoP -- and Romney -- was my antithesis. But (B) at least is not (A). "If you can't beat 'em; join 'em." -- Signed, A New RINO

A parallel re: homosexual marriage would be similar.

If you supported a candidate who advocated for homosexual marriage, and if I said that if it was fully embraced, on what grounds would polygamy and group marriage -- like 5 men and 3 women -- be excluded? I'm sure you could retort: "Oh please....group marriage? Now you are bordering on hysterics."

But in that case, likewise, it wouldn't matter if I carried the principle underneath what's being advocated to its extreme conclusion: Once a relativistic formula undoes one man, one woman as what constitutes marriage, there is no boundary for excluding multiple partners...no matter what the sex...or no matter what the mix-and-match combo.

Once relativism, pragmatism, and utilitarianism win the day, then over 90% of the nation thereby identifies -- and openly practices -- such ethics in the public square. (And then, to top it off, they verbally try to "beat up" on those who don't...they just can't stand somebody who actually adheres to some absolutes..."Why can't they just be relativists -- like the rest of us?")

91 posted on 08/07/2012 6:13:02 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Las Vegas Ron; Elsie
Muzzie or Mormon, your choice, obot.

The standard of debate amonst the MittBots descends ever-lower.

We post the truth about Romney, they lie about who we are and our purposes.

I guess that's what happens when you support a lying, left-wing, Progressive Liberal.

You become what you support.
92 posted on 08/07/2012 6:13:03 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: KevinDavis; roylene
I really don’t care... We are electing a Commander in Chief. Not a Pastor in Chief.. Mitt can be a member of the Church of Scientology and I will vote for him...

Sorry, but we are also electing a leader on the Social Issues and Limited Government and to deal with the Illegal Alien problem, all of which Mitt is either missing in action, or completely wrong on like the Gay Agenda.
93 posted on 08/07/2012 6:17:43 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: TrueFact

“Really? You have no idea what you are saying. If you folks continue to rail about Romney being Mormon, you’re going to end up having 0bama for 4 more years. And who knows what he is? But given a choice of the lesser of two evils, I’m going to do all I can to NOT re-elect 0bama. That include trying to convince you short-sighters to just hold your collective noses and go vote for Romney come November....all of you. Geez. What other choice is there? Some stupid protest vote or non-vote?”


Since Mittens is just the white Obama, I’m not sure why you get all outraged by it.


94 posted on 08/07/2012 6:18:00 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: Las Vegas Ron; Elsie; All
(To Elsie): Please explain how you are serving The Good Lord Jesus by denigrating another faith...

(If you were really trying to win over potential Romney voters, please explain how it's supposedly "winsome" to continually personally attack others -- and not simply stick to issues? In other words, why are you denigrating Elsie's religious convictions with your own opposing religious convictions)

(To Elsie) LOL...you're hypocrite in the highest order.

(Yeah, well read the previous graph above...your two-faced approach shows what you label others for)

95 posted on 08/07/2012 6:18:17 PM PDT by Colofornian
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Comment #96 Removed by Moderator

To: greyfoxx39
I have a problem with Muslim extremists.

You obviously have a problem with the LDS church and my post.

BFD

97 posted on 08/07/2012 6:19:28 PM PDT by jmax (Ahhhh...life is so frigging good in the obama nation.)
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To: KevinDavis

Mitt can be a member of the Church of Scientology and I will vote for him...


Oh my. Take it back!


98 posted on 08/07/2012 6:19:28 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Las Vegas Ron; Elsie; All
(To Elsie): Please explain how you are serving The Good Lord Jesus by denigrating another faith...
THOU SHALT & THOU SHALT NOT RULES OF DISPARAGERS & DISRUPTORS [What Poster is Really Saying] Repackaged Framing by DPs to Hide REAL message... Basic problem, approach, and/or sin that disparaging posters need to address/reprent of... Basic problem, approach, and/or sin that disparaging posters need to address/reprent of... If disparaging posters were consistent, we would see them...
RULE #1: THOU SHALT SHOOT THINE DIGITAL MESSENGERS [Thou shalt redirect our misdirected provocation prompted by scandals, criminal behavior, and whacky beliefs and push them onto (read punish) perceived whistleblowers and once/twice-removed sources passing who dare pass info on] Indignant that a negative headline & article deemed "offensive" would even see the FR light of day as they tend to object to some perceived 'guilt-by-association' residue (a) Misdirected provocation; (b) misplaced accountability; (c) preference that negative presentation of info "be swept under the rug than shine a light on a dark corner" mentality might accompany this; (d) double-standard (hypocritical) response -- as if a second or third-generational source deserves a few verbal slaps while either the source of the scandal or the publishing source gets a free pass (a) Give similar direct feedback to the original source -- or have basic discernment that the problem is with the original source...whether it's the original publishing source OR the source of the actions that caused the negative news to begin with...for example...a criminal...or some promulator of a whacky belief; (b) Be upset with the original scandal instigators. But we rarely do. This is tantamount to people becoming more upset with pictures of aborted babies being shown in public -- than with the industry and the actions that dismember such pre-borns to begin with! In this way, Mormons should realize -- per the Book of Mormon (Alma 4:10), that the "issue" isn't with second-hand or third-hand "messengers" posting threads on FR...Per Alma 4:10, the "wickedness of church is a stumbling block to those who do not belong to the church."
RULE #2: THOU SHALT FOLLOW MY PERFECT SPIRITUAL VISION & REMOVE THINE BEAMS & LOGS IN THINE OWN EYE Tries to come across as Pseudo-'Biblical': Thou shalt take thy beam/log out from thine own eye. [The 'Thou Shalt Not' version of this is: "Thou shalt not judge."] (a) Assumes, any "beams" in their own eyes have been removed, allowing them to have the perfect spiritual vision to castigate other posters. Having supposedly assessed the situation with this perfect spiritual vision, "obviously" the ones being disparaged need to join their "perfect vision club" so that all posters can be on the same "page"; (b) This is self-refuting: If a person cannot 'judge' someone else, then what business is it for a DP to come in and 'judge' another poster? (c) Epic failure re" lack of Biblical understanding re: how we as Christians can righteously judge, having the "mind of Christ" (1 Cor. 2) -- and that this is simply called "discernment"...(d) This also becomes quite "rich" if the message is NOT to "judge" -- all as they engage in #3...judging others' inward motives, temperaments and dispositions! Well, under (c) above -- if such discernment ("judgment") wasn't exercised, EVERYTHING in the world would be tolerated and even parents would have no basis for passing on moral direction to their children! Even commenting negatively on a couple living together as counsel for their own kids would be dismissed as "judgmental"
RULE #3: THOU INNER MOTIVATIONS, TEMPERAMENTS, AND DISPOSITIONS SHALL BE PSYCHO-ANALYZED BY COMPLETE STRANGERS! (SELF-APPOINTED 'DR.' ME!) (Assumes accusatory posture, often stereotyping & may engage in spiritual or moral one-upsmanship) (a) JUDGING (going extremely beyond scope of available info to them): Here, DPs go beyond judging external fruit, beginning to harshly judge inward motivations, temperaments and dispositions of complete strangers. They either psycho-analyze or use Magic 8-balls or urims & thummims or some unknown basis for accomplishing this. And they are unapologetic about offering their uninvited lay psychology services! 1 Samuel 16:7 in the Old Testament says that ONLY God knows the inner man; that men look only upon the OUTER aspects of others...Such disparaging posters thus assume the sovereign and omniscient role of God to make such slanderous judgments (b) If the poster targeted by a DP is ex-Lds, all manner of assumptions as to why the Mormon left are usually superimposed upon the poster's personal history ...to react the same way to other similar online discussions. Surprisingly, these are the same posters who claim nobody could possibly know the status of any individual's relationship with God (heaven vs. hell is usually context of such discussion)...if these people are so "hands-off" here in assessing others' spirituality, why is the supposedly near-complete psychosis of others right at their beck and call for them to gossip at will?
RULE #4: THOU SHALT NOT SPIRITUALLY WARN OTHERS OR CONFRONT THEM (Yes, I know others -- including Lds missionaries & Lds lay people are accorded this freedom...but sorry, this religious liberty is not to be exercised on this forum minus my frown) (DP may object to the forum/venue this is being done; In a word, "hypocrisy" and self-refuting: DPs have no qualms about confronting YOU re: supposedly "objectionable" religious convictions...or no qualms about warning YOU re: expressing those convictions! What's conveyed is "I have a set-straight 'license' & I'm setting you straight; so please stop trying to set others straight or I'll have to keep returning to these threads in order to try to set you straight!" (b) If Lds & their allies want people to respect the motivations of Lds missionaries, & respect their freedom to "warn" as they not only see fit but as they interpret your sacred "scriptures," then please exchange the same common courtesy and honor/respect posters' rights to spiritually warn as led by the power of the Holy Spirit. (Why begrudge us the same freedom extended to Lds missionaries?) What is supposedly good "medicine" for you is NOT dosage that is to be applied to, say, Lds missionaries who engage in some kind of "ministry" of warning others! For example, Mormons may cite D&C 101:63 about "wisdom...concerning all the churches" to be shown "inasmuch as they are willing to be guided in a right and proper way for their salvation" Or Mormon leaders like 10th "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith might in an Lds church published book (Answers to Gospel Questions) may outline key mandates of an Lds missionary. In both volumes 1 and 4, Joseph Fielding Smith cited the same D&C passage: 88:81-82: "Behold, I sent you out to testify and WARN the people, and it becometh every man who hath been WARNED to WARN his neighbor. Therefore, they are left without excuse, and their sins are upon their own heads." Joseph Fielding Smith then, after citing these verses in volumes 1 and 4, mentioned the following: "This commission to go forth which was given in the beginning is still in force and binding on every missionary who goes forth today to declare the gospel of salvation in the world." (Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. I, p. 134, 1957/1979) And: "...there are certain commandments missionaries should remember...they are sent not only to preach and bear testimony and bring people to repentance...but to WARN ALL men..." (Vol. 4, p. 55 1963/1979) ...wage some kind of crusade vs. 52,000 Lds missionaries & Lds.org for its slanderous accusations of Christians and worldwide Christianity
RULE #5: 'I CAN BASH YOU & ATTACK YOU FOR ANY PERCEIVED 'BASHING' & 'ATTACKING' OF OTHERS; SIMPLY PUT, OTHERS ARE 'OFF-LIMITS'...WHEREAS YOU ARE FAIR GAME!' Thou Shalt Not Bash or Attack. ['Thou Shalt Version': Thou Shalt speak respectfully to others -- oft' coupled w/basic accusations of being "hateful" or "haters," animosity or hostility..."And if you dare expose and challenge false teachings, then I as a DP critic will try to challenge and expose you -- all for you exposing and challenging others!"] (a) Hypocrisy -- double-standards/two-faced; (b) Multi-cultural indoctrination or victim persecution complex: Basic failure to distinguish/discern between others tackling worldviews/beliefs/convictions/ISMs vs. 'slam' against identity of people embracing these worldviews, beliefs & convictions...they mistake negative presentations of 'content' with 'context'. For example, one speaking quite negatively of the homosexual lifestyle doesn't automatically "hate" his homosexual neighbor. (I'm afraid too many who believe that have bought into to Homosexuality 101 as taught in some of American's corporations and college campuses). (c) When DPs pull out the labels of "hateful," "haters," "hate-mongering," "animosity" and "hostility" they often confuse these with efforts to contend for the Christian faith, refute false teachings, warn vs. heresies, etc. (d) Overall, they usually misdiagnose exchanges within a thread, showing lack of environmental dynamics' discernment. Sometimes, some DP engage in projecting -- where they take past/current conflicts within their own lives and read them into scenarios of open disagreement expressed by others. (e) When Mormons speak evil of posters, they are disobeying a Joseph Smith commandment: "thou shalt not speak evil of thy neighbor" (D&C 42:27) ...Perceive ALL negative comments as "bashing" or "attacking" -- & therefore, they would ne'er speak negatively about anybody or anything! Example from Mormonism: Do Lds posters who 'see' 'bashing' going on equally condemn Lds 'prophets' and 'apostles' who based Christians? If not, they often have tried turning an open forum like FR into a 'one-way street.' What's "interesting" is that it then seems that Lds think it's perfectly 'OK' to have a Presidential candidate who sustains bashers of Christians and Christianity, yet if any word is lifted up that dares question the Lds industry of bashing Christians, look out!
RULE #6: 'TOLERANCE FOR ME; BUT NOT FOR THEE' (Or to put it another way: "I have a license to be intolerant toward your religious convictions and expressions -- all as I chew you out for exercising your right to express your own religious convictions!" And what are common in these expressions? Simply that we don't cuddle up to religious falsehoods, deceptions, and other aspects that the Bible warns us not to "tolerate" as counterfeit Christianity Thou Shalt Not Be Intolerant or a 'Bigot' ['Thou Shalt' version of this is: "This country was founded on religious liberty" -- implying some protection from all critiques accompanied such liberty...or 'Thou Shalt be civil' -- but usually redefined in a multi-cultural way...meaning full acceptance of all religious tenets] (a) Hypocrisy -- double-standards/two-faced; (b) Hauling out the "B" word is a common debate tactic and a common liberal tactic; Once you quickly assign stereotyped labels, you shut down discussion & just write them off because you've already "labeled" "their kind" -- and hence you don't have to discover anything specifically distinct about any given individual; (c) Although patience IS a virtue -- as well as a certain level of civility, respect and giving honor; but not all lifestyles and worldviews are to be respected -- and thus, Biblically speaking, tolerance is NOT usually presented as a virtue ...address some extremely negative Mormon poor portrayals of the Christian church? (Or is "tolerance" and "Religious liberty" a one-way street for Mormons?) ...The day I start seeing online "bigot patrols" start trying to wield across-the-board accountability (vs. Lds, Inc.) is the day I'll perk up to somebody who's choosing to act in a consistent manner. I think we all prefer consistency vs. double-minded, double-standard, hypocritical actions and words.
RULE #7: THOU SHALT SHOTGUN-BLAST GENERIC BROADSIDES WITH VAGUE SLAMS & BASHES AGAINST MULTIPLE POSTERS (Often, allies of cultists attempting a defense of them will provide a bad illustration is given meant as some sort of "parallel" scenario and therefore expect somehow that the exposition of a cult and its beliefs should be bypassed accordingly) Disparaging posters tend to cast a broad net with references to anonymous posters on a thread (use of "some" and "Any," etc.)...As FR poster Elsie stated: Such use of "VAGUE references that avoid the INDIVIDUAL nomenclature" allows disparaging posters to impugn with safety." 'Tis no accountability for their "corporate pool" accusations because they can't be pinned down exactly who they're critiquing Are vague accusations all DPs can do? Didn't DP parents ever teach them that if they're going to criticize to be specific? ...to parent the same way...For example...any time a child does something worthy of discipline, a DP could discipline them minus telling them what they are being disciplined for!
RULE #8: THOU SHALT NOT ROCK THY POLITICAL BOAT OF COALESCING LOOSE-KNIT CONSERVATIVE POPULATION SEGMENTS Some DPs suggest that certain conservative sub-groups -- Lds, for example -- will be "scared away" if the religious differences are highlighted or over-concentrated upon (one-way street). Wow! How "cuddly" we are supposedly here...should we commence signing Kum-bay-yah? (An appeal is usually made to socio-political conservative nature of a particular group's beliefs -- for example, Mormons -- currently under the microscope) (a) So, if being "unity-conscientious" = typical accusations we see vs. skeptics about taking unity too far, no thanks. If these "unity advocates" were really "unity ambassadors," I think we'd find more winsome words elsewhere. (b) The MAIN implication is that those who point out problematic beliefs of groups like Mormons are somehow being "divisive." The length of time -- and the intensity -- at which Mormons have been divisive toward Christians by taking a socio-political "scorched earth" approach to burying worldwide Christianity is all but neglected. (a) ... were they so concerned about "conservative unity," DPs would highly "encourage" leadership of the Mormon church to ease up on calling us Christians "apostates" (I mean, how is that different than Muslims calling us Christians "infidels?") (b) When will DPs address Lds "scripture"--the most popular Mormon scripture of all--that says the Christians professors of faith are 100% "corrupt?" (including all Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox) (c) When will DPs address that same Lds "scripture" -- that says 100% of Christians creeds are an "abomination" to the Mormon god? (Pull up online "Joseph Smith - History" in the "Pearl of Great Price" and read vv. 18-20 for yourself) Mormons call us as being part of the Church of the devil (1 Nephi 14:9-10, Book of Mormon). Mormons imply we're part of false & dead church (Doctrine & Covenants 1:30) What? DPs don't think these accusations by Mormons somehow "disrupt" this pretense -- this false front -- of "unity" they want to somehow preserve? It's Mormon allies like these that always seem to want engage in a one-way street: They want to address a few FReepers -- as if we were capable of disrupting "unity"; but they don't seemingly want to address the 52,000 Lds missionaries out and about who don't let a week -- and often each day -- go by without talking about the so-called universal "apostasy" and "restoration." That doesn't bother them? (If not, why not?) Or, somehow, what? They don't mind all those quoted references above being put online and in print worldwide in hundreds of languages?...yet they're concerned about a few English-only posters who can't hold a candle to the publishing power of Lds, Inc.?
RULE #9: THOU SHALT NOT CONFUSE MY LIMITED CONCENTRATION -- MY ABILITY TO ONLY HANDLE ONE ISSUE AT A TIME [Overchallenged due to socio-political A.D.D when confronted with the suggestion that we citizens should be multi-tasking re: our concerns...'Thou Shalt' version of this is: 'Thou Shalt K.I.S.S. -- Keep It Simple Stupid -- for me by simplifying one target at a time...I can't juggle more than one concern" (This is a common objection where posters impose the idea that we should ONLY be focusing on Islam; or ONLY be focusing on liberals & socialists; or ONLY be focusing on Obama; etc. I understand their concern about distractions and diluted levels of concentration, but we've ALWAYS been a nation of multi-taskers!) Simply put, these posters can't multi-task...this is usually an appeal from what I reference as 'A.D.D.' type of posters Essentially, this tends to reveal a either a lack of acknowledgement about hell's realities -- or a sort of universalism where little urgency exists to reach those in new religions and the cults ...--had they been alive in 1942, any DP-like Americans would have only been involved in fighting the Japanese and not the Germans. Why? They just don't know how to multi-task!
RULE #10: THOU SHALT KEEP 'RELIGION' HERMETICALLY SEALED FROM ALL THINGS POLITICAL [Having likely gutted out faith as having relevance for their own public life, of course they would likewise narrow a candidate's character as not being informed by religion, other-worldly worldviews, social views of faith-life, etc.] One appeal: "FR is a 'political' Web site" (implying religious considerations are irrelevant); Or, if a Mormon had true conservative political credentials, who cares their level of discernment in the most important area of their life? Are DPs calling to keep "religion" hermetically sealed so that 0% of it bleeds over into the public square? Isn't our life to be integrated vs. compartmentalized? Some would like to keep "religion" hermetically sealed from "politics"...and ne'er the 'twain shall meet. Yet the extremely liberal Washington Post poured its worldview into a Dec. 2011 headline -- calling "religion" an "ugly head"...meaning it believes "religion" needs to bury their head and keep it buried. Imagine that. The very liberal Washington Post and the small-but-focused chorus of "let's-keep-religion-out-of-analyzing Romney" voices we hear around FR all arrive at the same conclusion: Religion doesn't belong in the Public Square. I guess this group of FRs could show their "high-five" agreement with the Post and contact them to thank them for reinforcing their worldview. One of our ethical problems in our nation is that some want to make leadership only about policies and administrative know-how, We need to elevate character considerations to be inclusive of traits such as vulnerability to deception. Simply put, a POTUS goes beyond administrative duties. Discernment is a very important character trait...and yet that's not commonly referenced as a POTUS duty. ...active on FR telling other FREEPERs to keep from delving into Rev. Jeremiah Wright stories during the '08 Obama campaign; or they would have been all over Mitt Romney in '07 when he told the Christian Science Monitor that he would not place a Muslim on his Cabinet...the "hermetically sealed" advocates would have been vying for the political coverage in '07-'08 to keep away from that religious focus...no such traces can be found of this angle on FR
RULE #11: THOU SHALT 'OUTNICE' JESUS, THE APOSTLE PAUL, JOHN THE BAPTIST, AND THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS! These posters attempt to serve as THE 'brand managers' for the reputation of Jesus Christ, claiming to have THE exclusive scoop on how Christ comprehensively treated everybody. They claim, "This is not Christ's way of treating others" or "We need to reflect Christ's love" -- insinuating Jesus or other Biblical characters never engaged in what might be labeled "tough love" (a) This is self-refuting: If they want us nicer than Jesus, etc...why aren't they 'outnicing' Jesus toward us? (b) The most basic problem is a neglect of Biblical recognition of various leaders' treatment of legalistic Pharisees and false disciple-mongers...By extension, by condemning contemporary tough love approaches, they wind up condemning similar actions coming from Biblical characters (b) Lack of basic Biblical discernment to how Jesus, the apostle Paul, Apollos and others differentiated between legalistic Jews (the Pharisees) and pagan polytheists and people mired in sin; This can be summed up as: Failure to understand the Biblical concept of comforting the afflicted; and "afflicting the comfortable"; This also places weight on only one side of the New Testament -- speaking the truth in love, while neglecting 1 Cor. 13:6: "Love rejoices in the truth." Forthrightness, honesty, warning, rebuking, being a truth-teller are all positive qualities in the Bible which DPs often tred upon minus realizing it. ...to emulate Jesus (Matt. 23; John 8; etc.) the apostle Paul (Acts 20:29-31); Acts 19:8; 2 Cor. 10:3-5; Titus 1:9-10; Acts 17:2-4; 18:4; John the Baptist (Luke 3:19-20), Apollos (Acts 18:28) and other Biblical leaders...

99 posted on 08/07/2012 6:19:32 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Las Vegas Ron

“Jim’s opinion is stated here, he is not obsessed like the like s of you withe their incessant, psychotic posts.”


Careful, your psychosis is getting out of hand. It’s funny to watch Mittbot’s explode in fury over a guy who has all the moral values of Barack Obama, whom they claim to be mightily against.


100 posted on 08/07/2012 6:23:21 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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