Skip to comments.EDITORIAL: The Civil War of 2016: U.S. military officers are told to plan to fight Americans
Posted on 08/08/2012 4:50:24 PM PDT by EveningStar
Imagine Tea Party extremists seizing control of a South Carolina town and the Army being sent in to crush the rebellion. This farcical vision is now part of the discussion in professional military circles.
At issue is an article in the respected Small Wars Journal titled Full Spectrum Operations in the Homeland: A Vision of the Future.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
I read far too much of it, but I stopped reading when they had the Ku Klux Klan joining up with the Tea Party and Minutemen. I know a lot of folks who consider themselves members of the Tea Party movement, and not a single one of them would have anything to do with leftist anti-Christian groups like the KKK.
You should read the original thread on this topic here:
Full Spectrum Operations in the Homeland: A Vision of the Future (CW2 Ping)
You should read the commentary in that thread by Travis McGee, bayouranger, and Steel Wolf in particular.
And if at all possible, I encourage you to have COL Benson read the same. Strongly encourage. They “get” a lot that I don’t think he does, there on the banks of the Potomac (figuratively if not literally).
“breakup of the old US Army in the days leading up to the First American Civil War”
Do you have any recommendations for good reading on that subject? That’s a subject I just haven’t come across much and I am very interested in. Thanks.
And the Taliban is made up of people who have a culture, all the way back to Alexander the Great, of never surrendering. They will fight, because that is who they are. Will that happen here? Most of the “TEA” party is older, conservative, and set in their ways. That is not the group you turn to in a war. They have to much to loose.
The scenario will not be open warfare, at least not after the tanks roll in and crush open dissent.
But, and this could be a very interesting but, a developing resistance could wreak havoc on the country and its masters.
The military could obviously subdue open revolt in all of the major urban areas. That is a very long way from true control of the country. And more importantly, control of its economic activity.
They could rule the country by force in principle. The reality could be very different. What size standing army would be needed to successfully stamp out guerrilla warfare in a county this large and diverse *if* (a significant if, I'll grant you) there were sufficient numbers in resistance?
That is why Big Brother is taking control incrementally. A sudden move would invoke chaos.
“Imagine Tea Party extremists seizing control of a South Carolina town and the Army being sent in to crush the rebellion.”
Would never happen in a million years. Tea Partiers respect law and order. They’re NOT anarchists like the bottom feeders at OWS.
However......when has logic, reason, or the Constitution ever stopped the F[r]eds (Feds + Marxist indoctrination= F[r]ed) from doing whatever they want whenever they want to whomever they want ?
Ever seen a civil war in a nation where over 50% of the population own firearms, and 10% own scoped deer rifles capable of hitting a soldier on guard or checkpoint duty at 400+ yards?
I ran the numbers and here’s what I got..
That would give us..
10% of South Carolina’s population for Snipers are 467,923
50% of the population own firearms & are True Hunters, give or take 3 or 4 are 2,339,615
Free Fire Zone would cover..but not limited to
Total area - 31,189 square miles
Land area - 30,111 square miles
Inland water area - 1,006 square miles
Coastal water area - 72 square miles
on our on home ground advantage. plus..
Some of them Georgia boys would not want to miss out so add another couple 1000 or 2
Col. Kevin Bensonr would wet his pants if those number were a fact, and they could be. Time will tell.
And plenty of outside muscle to help things progress, open borders to provide more assistance and obama telling ICE to release if they catch, the list goes on and on...I think we've progressed beyond "interesting times" and into something new.
THAT is a pile of BS.
Article 4 section 4
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
And on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive means the STATE governments, not the federal one.
This does not, however, says Barbeyrac, hinder but each confederated state may provide for its particular safety, by repressing its rebellious subjects. And herewith the present constitution of the United States fully agrees. For although congress are bound to guarantee to every state in the union a republican form of government, and to protect each of them against invasion; and also against domestic violence; yet this last is only to be done where the legislature, or executive of the state (where the legislature cannot be convened) shall make the application.
George Tucker Of the Several Forms of Government, SECTION XII
At the same time it is properly provided, in order that such interference may not wantonly or arbitrarily take place; that it shall only be on the request of the state authorities: otherwise the self-government of the state might be encroached upon at the pleasure of the Union, and a small state might fear or feel the effects of a combination of larger states against it under colour of constitutional authority;
Any federal government action without a request from the State is unconstitutional on both the federal AND state level.
THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION
Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS
Section 24 - MILITARY SUBORDINATE TO CIVIL AUTHORITY
The military shall at all times be subordinate to the civil authority
CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF KANSAS
BILL OF RIGHTS
Sec. 4. The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be tolerated, and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.
CONSTITUTION OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS
PART THE FIRST A Declaration of the Rights of the Inhabitants of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Article XVII. The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.
ALL the States have these, and they tie directly to this:
Article VI. - The United States
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
Thanks so much for posting that text, IM.
That link gets me no where. Is there another way I can search for the comment?
There are at least 20X the number of veterans still of useful age with appropriate knowledge and experience, than there are on active duty plus LEOs and FLEAs.
Even if 10% of those numbers came to bear it would scare the poop out of any army. That’d give 200,000 well equipped and well trained fighters that know their State, the ground, the waterways, and the resources, and you can believe the other States will keep busy as well. It just isn’t a fight the entire world’s armies could survive.
We could say the same about another kind of fighting: Politics.
Certain political parties (er, both) would rather win elections than tell the truth, stick to an ideal, do what's right, etc.
Still, it's laughable to think all these old grandparents are going to "take" Darlington, arrest mayors, cops, and sherrifs, stop traffic on the interstates, pull illegal aliens out of cars, etc.! I don't think they'd need the Army to put that down!
That last pic: Waco.
Holder was part of that.
He’s no longer in uniform, he’s retired. He works as a contractor and can be fired at the drop of a hat (may already have been as far as I know).
Yeah, but none of their dogs will survive!
To get onto The Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping List you need to threaten to report me to the Admin if I dont add you to the list...
LOL. Thanks for the Pings.
Dammit, if you don’t add me to the list, I’m reporting you do the Lead Moderator! And he’s closely related to the Graphite Moderator!
I don't think most folks believe the “military” has gone against “citizens”. The National Guard has maybe put down some “hippies” or other riff-raff to “restore order”. But surely that could never happen to them. They are not hippies or riff-raff after all.
That is also why I love authoritarian “conservatives” who love government force so long at is used against “them”.
You are not factoring in the goal of destroying the United States.
The Desolation of Obamanation has no interest whatsoever in either side prevailing.
Only that we are swept off the world stage and left a scorched ruin.
I respectfully disagree.
Contrary to popular belief, for every dope smoking hippie at Woodstock, there were a hundred "normal" American kids in the service in Vietnam, Germany, South Korea, etc. Not to mention the Ozzie and Harriet kids who went on to college, marriage, jobs, etc.
And yes, there are a ton of them, a veritable lump in the Python, so to speak.
I daresay the majority of those folks have not changed their political stripes: indeed, they are the nucleus and the rank and file of the Tea Party.
As far as "too much to lose", who has that, the 19 year old kid in today's Army who is looking forward to his first legal beer and piece of tail or the old buzzard who sees nothing ahead but the Balkanization of his once great Country and a death panel?
Leading up to the attempted bombing everyone from the President on down had their talking points as to how the TEA Party were a bunch of violent Tim McVeigh wannabees, and low and behold it was a fertilizer bomb.
Following the attempted bombing it was SEE SEE SEE we told you the Tea Party was violent.
Had that bomb not been a dud, it would have happened then.
Amazing how the left had their talking points in place before the attempted bombing .
“Any federal government action without a request from the State is unconstitutional on both the federal AND state level.”
The army being subordinate to the civil authority remains when it is the President giving the orders to attack.
Pennsylvania has close to a million deer hunters and they don’t use shotguns.
“What exactly is a Tea Party Extremist?”
We are not extremists. Frankly it’s the statists who believe in an all-powerful Federal Leviathan who are the extremists. If anything, we’re the only true “moderates” if you really think about it.
Like Ronaldus Magnus pointed out all of those years ago, Conservatism is not an ideology. Demanding that the federal government exercise only its Enumerated Powers is not an ideology, it’s being a good citizen. Stating that the redistribution of wealth is a terrible idea that only leads to genocide and destruction isn’t an ideology, it’s a statement of fact, just like it’s a statement of fact that the vast majority of Americans think radical Islam and homosexual “marriage” are bad ideas, too.
One thing I wish our “leaders” in the Republican party would realize is the fact that We the People outnumber They the Progressiveviks by a 2-1 margin. Maybe they wouldn’t be such craven cowards.
“You are not factoring in the goal of destroying the United States.
The Desolation of Obamanation has no interest whatsoever in either side prevailing.
Only that we are swept off the world stage and left a scorched ruin.”
Well said. This isn’t about winning, this is about the destruction of the US.
Here’s hoping he’s fired. His infantile academic analysis is an embarrassment to real military planners the world over.
Perhaps, but they also don't get their facts straight, at least based on most of the comments that I read.
No doubt that this issue is cause for concern, but the concern is with the political zealots who currently infest the White House and other corridors of power in DC. Thank Benson for getting this issue on the street, though I don't think that was his intent and I doubt that he realizes what a bonehead thing he did by using a political hot potato in his scenario.
Fortunately, a couple kind folks FReepmailed me the new links and they do the job just fine. :)
That is for certain.
.And the Taliban is made up of people who have a culture, all the way back to Alexander the Great, of never surrendering. They will fight, because that is who they are. Will that happen here? Most of the TEA party is older, conservative, and set in their ways. That is not the group you turn to in a war. They have to much to loose.
While that is true at the moment, we are discussing a scenario where it could be that they realize they have very little to lose. An order person that has lived the majority of his life as a free man, may not be so eager to spend his few remaining years as a serf. He may also be willing to sacrifice those years to prevent the serfdom of his children and grandchildren.
It's just intuition, but I suspect that there are more of those "older" people than you think that would be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for their country and their descendents. I hope we are not forced to find out.
Very interesting. I doubt that Tea Party attendees would allow themselves into any situation such as that in the Col’s scenario, although another demographic might (e.g., laid off government employees). As you wrote, most of the tea partiers are getting old. Most of them are also wiser than most others. And maybe the Col. is coming out of the closet or something.
Hey Travis, great comment, that you also left at the Washington Times article, and I wanted to give it a Like to help it rise up, but your link doesn’t work.
So, I searched for some of the text in your comment, and found it, and gave a Like, but you’re way below the number of Likes needed. You comment with the moniker Matt Bracken, so a Freeper can search for that also, and give a Like.
Who said anything about arrest , more like a tree with a short rope or a wall and lead.
When your career is over, they call you retired. That's his status as the article makes clear.
Notice that in the past, the government used FBI agents to crack down on citizens rather than the Military?
Even if 10% of those numbers came to bear it would scare the poop out of any army..
That is so so true..
If only We The People could come to know and believe that our strength is real.
When push come to shove We The People will step up and find that power and there will be hell to pay.
That might be me in at least one of those pictures. Proud veteran of 9/12
I think that's why he used the Tea Party and South Carolina. If he had used a more realistic scenario, such as a La Raza take over of some border town, he would have been crucified in the press.
” Notice that in the past, the government used FBI agents to crack down on citizens rather than the Military? “
Notice that in recent years, the FBI has become increasingly more militarized??
Once word got out that Mordor was tactically moving against the Right, it would be SHTF nation-wide. LEO morale would crumble with wide-spread desertion to protect their own families ("Honey, don't go out there, who's going to protect us?").
Dissention in military ranks would the erode command and control structure: zealous chiefs with very few indians interested in the fight ("Screw you sir, I didn't come back from Afghanistan for this.")
The world would witness and be amazed (our enemies terrified) by the true purpose behind the 2nd Amendment as Mordor's rule collapses in mere weeks if not days.
They'll shut down the internet (NDAA), arrest whomever they want, the LSM will do a report on Climate Change, and all will be well.
See you in the Gulag.
In that spirit, allow me to present three difficulties he and his sidekick omitted:
FedGov will probably win, but it won't be easy for them. Sad to say, they'll have to win through massive censorship and intimidation of the general citizenry. And that's what Americans will suffer under afterwards, as demobilization has become one of those quaint customs from yesteryear.
If we are talking in “the abstract” an actual constitutional revolution would be started by one step too far by the government. (ie: Taking our weapons)
Ordinary people would then use the OWS rule book. We occupy Washington. We live in the “peoples house.” We allow no government to meet until elections.
Uh...I mean in the abstract.
Good review of the history bump.
On the other hand, let’s not forget the Battle of Athens, TN. . .
It’s a scenario that could never be contained. The COL (ret.) and his female “civil war expert” sidekick are idiots on the level of the picnickers who sallied forth from Washington in surries to witness the rapid thrashing of the rebels at Bull Run 1.