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EDITORIAL: The Civil War of 2016: U.S. military officers are told to plan to fight Americans
The Washington Times ^ | August 8, 2012 | Editorial

Posted on 08/08/2012 4:50:24 PM PDT by EveningStar

Imagine Tea Party extremists seizing control of a South Carolina town and the Army being sent in to crush the rebellion. This farcical vision is now part of the discussion in professional military circles.

At issue is an article in the respected Small Wars Journal titled “Full Spectrum Operations in the Homeland: A ‘Vision’ of the Future.”

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: 2016; army; banglist; civilwar; cwii; cwiiping; teaparty
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To: EveningStar

I read far too much of it, but I stopped reading when they had the Ku Klux Klan joining up with the Tea Party and Minutemen. I know a lot of folks who consider themselves members of the Tea Party movement, and not a single one of them would have anything to do with leftist anti-Christian groups like the KKK.

101 posted on 08/08/2012 6:12:11 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: centurion316; Travis McGee; Steel Wolf; bayouranger

You should read the original thread on this topic here:

Full Spectrum Operations in the Homeland: A “Vision” of the Future (CW2 Ping)

You should read the commentary in that thread by Travis McGee, bayouranger, and Steel Wolf in particular.

And if at all possible, I encourage you to have COL Benson read the same. Strongly encourage. They “get” a lot that I don’t think he does, there on the banks of the Potomac (figuratively if not literally).

102 posted on 08/08/2012 6:13:39 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Stonewall Jackson

“breakup of the old US Army in the days leading up to the First American Civil War”

Do you have any recommendations for good reading on that subject? That’s a subject I just haven’t come across much and I am very interested in. Thanks.

103 posted on 08/08/2012 6:16:15 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: Travis McGee
As you well know and understand, the ROE in Afghanistan are rather tight. It won't be if CWII breaks out.

And the Taliban is made up of people who have a culture, all the way back to Alexander the Great, of never surrendering. They will fight, because that is who they are. Will that happen here? Most of the “TEA” party is older, conservative, and set in their ways. That is not the group you turn to in a war. They have to much to loose.

104 posted on 08/08/2012 6:17:11 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: sagar
Regardless, I just do not see a well oiled military machine can be brought to knees by weekend warriors who are probably over 50 and not in good physical shape

The scenario will not be open warfare, at least not after the tanks roll in and crush open dissent.

But, and this could be a very interesting but, a developing resistance could wreak havoc on the country and its masters.

The military could obviously subdue open revolt in all of the major urban areas. That is a very long way from true control of the country. And more importantly, control of its economic activity.

They could rule the country by force in principle. The reality could be very different. What size standing army would be needed to successfully stamp out guerrilla warfare in a county this large and diverse *if* (a significant if, I'll grant you) there were sufficient numbers in resistance?

That is why Big Brother is taking control incrementally. A sudden move would invoke chaos.

105 posted on 08/08/2012 6:17:46 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the weren't really there)
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To: PowderMonkey
Add Ludlow to your list.
106 posted on 08/08/2012 6:17:53 PM PDT by kitchen (Over gunned is better than the alternative.)
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To: Travis McGee

“Imagine Tea Party extremists seizing control of a South Carolina town and the Army being sent in to crush the rebellion.”

Would never happen in a million years. Tea Partiers respect law and order. They’re NOT anarchists like the bottom feeders at OWS.

However......when has logic, reason, or the Constitution ever stopped the F[r]eds (Feds + Marxist indoctrination= F[r]ed) from doing whatever they want whenever they want to whomever they want ?

107 posted on 08/08/2012 6:20:22 PM PDT by Absolutely Nobama (The Doomsday Clock is at 11:59:00......tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock.....)
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To: Travis McGee

you said
Ever seen a civil war in a nation where over 50% of the population own firearms, and 10% own scoped deer rifles capable of hitting a soldier on guard or checkpoint duty at 400+ yards?

I ran the numbers and here’s what I got..
That would give us..
10% of South Carolina’s population for Snipers are 467,923
50% of the population own firearms & are True Hunters, give or take 3 or 4 are 2,339,615

Free Fire Zone would cover..but not limited to
Total area - 31,189 square miles
Land area - 30,111 square miles
Inland water area - 1,006 square miles
Coastal water area - 72 square miles
on our on home ground advantage. plus..

Some of them Georgia boys would not want to miss out so add another couple 1000 or 2

Col. Kevin Bensonr would wet his pants if those number were a fact, and they could be. Time will tell.

108 posted on 08/08/2012 6:22:03 PM PDT by triSranch ( Home of J.C. Calhoun and the Birthplace and Deathbed of the Confederacy)
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To: Travis McGee
And if it doesn’t happen naturally, they might give it some “help.”

And plenty of outside muscle to help things progress, open borders to provide more assistance and obama telling ICE to release if they catch, the list goes on and on...I think we've progressed beyond "interesting times" and into something new.

109 posted on 08/08/2012 6:23:06 PM PDT by GBA
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To: Iron Munro
even though the governor refuses to seek federal help to quell the uprising (the usual channel for military assistance), the Constitution allows the president broad leeway in times of insurrection."

THAT is a pile of BS.

Article 4 section 4
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

And on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive means the STATE governments, not the federal one.

This does not, however, says Barbeyrac, hinder but each confederated state may provide for its particular safety, by repressing its rebellious subjects. And herewith the present constitution of the United States fully agrees. For although congress are bound to guarantee to every state in the union a republican form of government, and to protect each of them against invasion; and also against domestic violence; yet this last is only to be done where the legislature, or executive of the state (where the legislature cannot be convened) shall make the application.
George Tucker Of the Several Forms of Government, SECTION XII

At the same time it is properly provided, in order that such interference may not wantonly or arbitrarily take place; that it shall only be on the request of the state authorities: otherwise the self-government of the state might be encroached upon at the pleasure of the Union, and a small state might fear or feel the effects of a combination of larger states against it under colour of constitutional authority;
William Rawle

Any federal government action without a request from the State is unconstitutional on both the federal AND state level.

Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS
The military shall at all times be subordinate to the civil authority


Sec. 4. The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be tolerated, and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.


PART THE FIRST A Declaration of the Rights of the Inhabitants of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Article XVII. The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.


ALL the States have these, and they tie directly to this:

Article VI. - The United States
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.


Thanks so much for posting that text, IM.

110 posted on 08/08/2012 6:23:06 PM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a Person as Created by the Laws of Nature, not a person as created by the laws of Man)
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To: Travis McGee

That link gets me no where. Is there another way I can search for the comment?

111 posted on 08/08/2012 6:26:51 PM PDT by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Tench_Coxe

There are at least 20X the number of veterans still of useful age with appropriate knowledge and experience, than there are on active duty plus LEOs and FLEAs.

112 posted on 08/08/2012 6:27:44 PM PDT by Travis McGee (
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To: triSranch

Even if 10% of those numbers came to bear it would scare the poop out of any army. That’d give 200,000 well equipped and well trained fighters that know their State, the ground, the waterways, and the resources, and you can believe the other States will keep busy as well. It just isn’t a fight the entire world’s armies could survive.

113 posted on 08/08/2012 6:28:21 PM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: ChildOfThe60s
No it's not naivety... Sadly, I understand what you're saying.

We could say the same about another kind of fighting: Politics.

Certain political parties (er, both) would rather win elections than tell the truth, stick to an ideal, do what's right, etc.

Still, it's laughable to think all these old grandparents are going to "take" Darlington, arrest mayors, cops, and sherrifs, stop traffic on the interstates, pull illegal aliens out of cars, etc.! I don't think they'd need the Army to put that down!

114 posted on 08/08/2012 6:28:36 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Rebelbase

That last pic: Waco.

Holder was part of that.

115 posted on 08/08/2012 6:30:14 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: Lurker

He’s no longer in uniform, he’s retired. He works as a contractor and can be fired at the drop of a hat (may already have been as far as I know).

116 posted on 08/08/2012 6:31:29 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: Travis McGee

Yeah, but none of their dogs will survive!

117 posted on 08/08/2012 6:32:09 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: null and void; EveningStar
"Please add me to your ping list. :)"


To get onto The Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping List you need to threaten to report me to the Admin if I don’t add you to the list...

LOL. Thanks for the Pings.

118 posted on 08/08/2012 6:32:34 PM PDT by Flotsam_Jetsome (If America were a car, the "Check President" light would be on.)
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To: null and void

Dammit, if you don’t add me to the list, I’m reporting you do the Lead Moderator! And he’s closely related to the Graphite Moderator!

119 posted on 08/08/2012 6:34:03 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: null and void
The times it has happened were either long ago, and not mentioned much in history class, or “that was different” and was aimed at small groups. For most people, it did not affect them personally.

I don't think most folks believe the “military” has gone against “citizens”. The National Guard has maybe put down some “hippies” or other riff-raff to “restore order”. But surely that could never happen to them. They are not hippies or riff-raff after all.

That is also why I love authoritarian “conservatives” who love government force so long at is used against “them”.

120 posted on 08/08/2012 6:34:24 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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